Learn The Tricks Of The Trade in Syndicate's Latest Demo

i'm having fun with it. enjoying the upgrades and research.

@Marz said:

it was in the mortal kombat trailer from what i remember... i'ts where i first heard of skrillex.

Yup, it was. And only in the trailer. No sign of it in the game.

No pc demo ? and also SKRILLEX words cannot describe how much i hate skrillex and most dubstep if not all these days.

Looks pretty good, might pick this up on launch day.

So Skrillex is the Kanye West of 2012? ^^

@SonicBoyster: people have gone through this at least a dozen times before but it's because that style of gameplay is no longer really viable and it wouldn't sell. They could have made this into an arcade style dual stick shooter and it would represent the "original" game better, but I'm happier with this. I played that original Syndicate and I played Syndicate Wars which was 3D, had a rotating camera and destructible environments and it wasn't very good anymore even back then. Also it's not magic, if you paid any amount of attention during the numerous videos about this release you'd have noticed that in the future everyone has chips and the agents have militarized versions of them which let them hack things within a certain radius. Your bodys adrenaline recharging the chips capacity to hack actually makes a ton of sense as far as video game logic goes.

This look great... Had a lot of fun with the first one back in the days, realy like the 4 player co/up

The demo is fun but this game has the busiest HUD I've ever seen.

sucks that there is no PC demo, kind of puts me off from buying the game, they only want the console players money? fine by me

I like the dubstep.

But the whole trailer is basically presenting video game features that we've seen in the last 5 years. Nothing new and interesting at all :/

No demo in Europe, or at least in Finland.

@Humanity said:

@SonicBoyster: people have gone through this at least a dozen times before but it's because that style of gameplay is no longer really viable and it wouldn't sell.

And people have also said it plenty of times that that is a bullshit excuse. There are perfect examples.

• DoW series has sold and continued to sell well. DoW2 is practically Syndicate in terms of gameplay.
• DX:HR has decided to stay faithfull to the original and not just be another FPS, and did fine
• X-com has now been confirmed to have an actual proper remake in the works, not just the FPS game
• Syndicate could have followed suit instead of just being another shooter in a sea of them

A good game will sell well regardless. But it's far simpler to just make an FPS and guarantee decent sales.

They could have made this into an arcade style dual stick shooter and it would represent the "original" game better

What the ef would that even have to do with the original?

Also it's not magic, if you paid any amount of attention during the numerous videos about this release you'd have noticed that in the future everyone has chips and the agents have militarized versions of them which let them hack things within a certain radius. Your bodys adrenaline recharging the chips capacity to hack actually makes a ton of sense as far as video game logic goes.

CHIPs in Syndicate are simple brain interfaces, I/O devices if you will. At most they can alter a users perception of reality. The CHIPs themselves don't do any complex operations. An bulky external device like a persuedatron could change how a subject sees things, but that is as far is it went. Yet now in their retcon a CHIP can somehow affect reality? heal people? make guns do more damage? create shield barriers? just how exectly would it even manage that? Hence it's basically "magic".

What a mess of a game. I really cannot allow myself to even try to like it when they took a giant dump on the original game format. There are too many FPS based games. Would it kill you to keep it turn based old school? Cowards.

@Tennmuerti: A dual stick shooter would exactly represent the original game. Maybe you don't remember it that well but there wasn't exactly super involved strategy going on in Syndicate. Oh I know you're about to tell me how I'm wrong and how when YOU played it the missions were a super complex strategic chess game. You clicked your "doods" to walk to a point and then right clicked to shoot the shit out of the bad guys and continue. The outcome of battles was largely dependent on how much you upgraded your agents and what weapons they had. Buy a bunch of shields for the mission and pop them on, now you can stand in the middle and shoot back at guys longer while they assail you with gunfire. The deepest game mechanic might have involved kiting, but thats about it. So yah, a dual stick shooter where you walked around with one stick, and shot with the other through levels and then upgraded your agents and equipment during intermissions would be exactly faithful to the original.

I'm just going to roll my eyes at your whole chip statement. I mean I'm sure that tech hasn't evolved right? Better yet, why don't they remake the game, and offer you the exact same choices as back in the original. Innovation is super overrated these days anyway. I don't want to hack from afar - give me a big clunky "future space remote control" instead. It is 2012 and we already control most of our appliances wirelessly - hacking things from afar in 2069? Wow, you're right, magic! The shield is an app, when their robotic, military grade augmented bodies fuel the "shield generator" with enough "adrenaline" they execute the app and a brief shield pops up which dampens damage. The healing is releasing some toxins into your blood to numb pain. Whatever. It makes ENOUGH sense. In the original when you fully upgraded your entire skeleton a single agent could stand in place while 10 enemies dumped on him with gunfire. Was his skin made out of metal? How do med kits work anyway? You just USE them and get healed? Games are bullshit!

I like to blaze out front.

(Not really).

Glad to see you aren't arguing the main point of how a new form/evolution of original Syndicate wouldn't sell.

@Humanity said:

@Tennmuerti: A dual stick shooter would exactly represent the original game. Maybe you don't remember it that well but there wasn't exactly super involved strategy going on in Syndicate. Oh I know you're about to tell me how I'm wrong and how when YOU played it the missions were a super complex strategic chess game. You clicked your "doods" to walk to a point and then right clicked to shoot the shit out of the bad guys and continue. The outcome of battles was largely dependent on how much you upgraded your agents and what weapons they had. Buy a bunch of shields for the mission and pop them on, now you can stand in the middle and shoot back at guys longer while they assail you with gunfire. The deepest game mechanic might have involved kiting, but thats about it. So yah, a dual stick shooter where you walked around with one stick, and shot with the other through levels and then upgraded your agents and equipment during intermissions would be exactly faithful to the original.

I'm replaying the original right now. And yes there is not a whole lot of strategy involved, with that I agree, after all it was 1993. But I still fail to see the dual stick shooter in there at all. How is that anything like a simple point and click RTT? Like I said before, Dawn of War 2 is basically an evolved form of Syndicate.

@Humanity said:

I'm just going to roll my eyes at your whole chip statement. I mean I'm sure that tech hasn't evolved right?

That's exactly it. the game seems to be sat before the original Syndicate. Considering the tech of the guns they are using. Maybe concurrently or slightly post. But definately before Syndicate Wars. So yes tech hasn't evolved.

Better yet, why don't they remake the game, and offer you the exact same choices as back in the original.

That's not what I'm saying at all. You can evolve a game or a geanre forward and make it relevant today without making into just another FPS.

It is 2012 and we already control most of our appliances wirelessly - hacking things from afar in 2069? Wow, you're right, magic!

Not what I said or meant at all. A - I don't have issue with the wireless hacking. B - the CHIP itself is not a hacking capable device at the time of the original Syndicate and Syndicate Wars. So again unless this game is set after those 2 that's fine. But the weapons and the "freee will" of the agents don't seem to indicate so.

The shield is an app, when their robotic, military grade augmented bodies fuel the "shield generator" with enough "adrenaline" they execute the app and a brief shield pops up which dampens damage. The healing is releasing some toxins into your blood to numb pain.

Godd explanation I actually like it. But why the need for adrenaline? Why not just execute the app? Or have a simple button for shield. This seems like a tactical weakness/disadvantage to have to rely on your "adrenaline" to shield from damage. Instead of just putting up the shield if it's inbuilt into your body anyway.

The healing is releasing some toxins into your blood to numb pain

Again why does your teammate need to do it? Why no button to do it yourself or a simple failsafe that triggers the healing systems when your body fails?

All me and the OP are trying to point out here is that the whole piggybanking of the dozens of abilities onto the CHIP is silly and is made further ridicuous and gamey by the silly "adrenaline" mechanic. It doesn't make any sense because the CHIP could never do any of these before, was never meant to or capable of. Now they are retconning it to this ultimate deus ex machina that does everything.

In the original when you fully upgraded your entire skeleton a single agent could stand in place while 10 enemies dumped on him with gunfire. Was his skin made out of metal?

Effectively yes. A - their bodies were synthetic and tougher they human organs. B - they had drugs being pumped into them to keep the body going. C - they had armored epidermis layers

@Tennmuerti: Well dual stick shooters are usually isometric/overhead view. Syndicate wasn't very complicated so you can map all controls to a controller and still have buttons to spare. The only real thing you would have to give up is the ability to direct your agents individually, but most of the time you kept together anyway. So you have all the makings of a very precise remake there. Overhead perspective, new graphics, eliminate, persuade etc mission types. You control a group of agents with the left stick while the right stick shoots whatever guns they have. Plenty of room to map items to d-pad or whatnot. You can even add the ability to zoom in and out. Throw in PSN/LIVE 4 player co op and it's you and your buddies going through big maps, dumping on baddies to persuade a dood at the end and escort him out. You can even add in on-rails egg cars; buy the rights to use Volitions eomod engine for destructible environments; heck even put in bullet time. I actually truly believe a lot of people would be less angst filled with an arcade styled release like this rather than the current re-imagening.

As for why they need adrenaline - well because it's a game. Theres a ton of reasons you can make up for it. That force field doesn't just generate itself - everything needs fuel. Since the agents are in hostile situations requiring a lot of action adrenaline is probably the best source of "energy" to fuel those gizmos - rather than the agents ducking behind a wall and chewing down on a protein bar. Adrenaline is limitless basically - as long as they're in action it will keep accumulating, so it's the perfect resource for a soldier. I can't really come up with a rational explanation for the healing. They have robotic parts inside them so maybe the adrenaline helps those parts repair one another who knows.

Also I rewatched the intro for old Syndicate just now and they don't mention a date when it takes place. I was under the impression this new Syndicate is just a continuation or a reimagening at the same timeframe?

@Humanity:

You could map all of that and you could make it into a dual stick shooter, but why do all that when you already have a perfectly fine if simplistic real time tactics game. The base of the game is simple point and click. Click and your dude/dudes go there, click another button and they shoot where the mouse is. The essence of a dual joystic shooter for me seemed always like dodging enemy shots and aiming your own at the same time. All at a pretty fast pace. That's not what the essence of Syndicate is. It's top down tactically controlling a squad of 4 dudes at a pretty leisurely pace. Now I admit there wasn't a lot of tactics to the original Syndicate (altho there are some missions where it is benefitial to split up your team), but games were less complex in those times in general. But even in Syndicate Wars you had to make tactical and positioning decisions to finish some later missions. It was not just send all your dudes to shoot at something. It was either ambushing tanks/robots from a corner, setting up booby traps with wire for large patrols, detonating building on top of stronger groups of enemies, using civilians as shields.

Those 2 original games were to me always in essence tactical squad games. And I just don't think a dual joystic shooter would reflect that at all. Simply making them graphically apealing by todays standards, adding some depth in tactics and depth in gameplay, and voila you would have something people today who are fans of the geanre are already familiar with, something close to DoW2. Or that new Jagged Alliance (sadly that doesn't look like a quality game (so far) in general regardless of geanre).

I don't have so much issue with addrenaline, it just seems silly and extremely gamey because it was an easiest out, a lazy quick explanation all the devs could come up with. (adrenaline can't be used as a fuel btw it's a hormone, a simpe chemical in the tiny tiny insubstantial amount in your blood, it could only be used as a trigger)

Like I said before the issue is mostly with piggybanking so many amazing abilities onto the CHIP. A silly uneccessary retcon in a beloved franchise. No one likes those. Especially since the only reason they did it is for those gamey abilities. And the: your entire team's guns do more damage; is probably the biggest offender of arbitrary bullshit that makes little sense.

Edit: Looked it up, the new Syndicate is set 100 years before the original. Heck i even though it was not that big of a gap, now the extreme CHIP powers make even less sense.

I'm surprised so many people are having a problem with the HUD or that we're STILL complaining that it's not isometric. "Booooo, another FPS." Normally, I'd agree with you but, let's face it, if they released a crazy exciting trailer with a Skrillex remix for... an isometric game, how many of you would actually buy it? Oh, I'm sure it'd be a blast on Steam or on a Humble Bundle or something but it wouldn't be a good revival for the series at all. Play the demo, remember that your LT/L2 button is on your controller for a reason, find some people who understand the definition of the word "co-operative," and then tell me you're not having fun with this game.

In the grim darkness of the near future there is only DUBSTEP!!

He should have just spent his time talking about Dubstep.

The demo was fine. I like that its a multiplayer coop shooter, and that its setting is a little more interesting than the usual shooter.

Love the demo. This game is cyberpunk as fuck. I just pre-ordered it yesterday.

Feels like people are losing the thread on what I was saying. You don't give a guy a gun and magic spells and call it "Tetris" and start talking about how it's a reboot of the franchise, right? I mean, you could, but it wouldn't make much less sense than this. My beef is that they're pulling the title "Syndicate" out of the air for cheap sales and not because they want to carry the franchise forward. It's the same reason you make a first person shooter with spells in it instead of trying to reproduce a tactical isometric shooter; the isometric shooter isn't going to make the sales you want, a first person shooter is more familiar to everyone and is going to get more attention. That doesn't legitimize it, that just makes it a more blatant attempt to cash in on the nostalgia of 30-somethings.

@Meatsim said:

He should have just spent his time talking about Dubstep.

Dubstepppppppppppppppp!

@TheFlatline: I for one, hail our Dubstep overlord.