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Sony Reportedly Working on a "PlayStation 4.5"

Developers confirmed to Kotaku that the new model would offer increased graphical power and could run games at 4K.

Well, whatever Sony has in mind has got to be better than the 32X, right?
Well, whatever Sony has in mind has got to be better than the 32X, right?

A few weeks ago, Microsoft's Phil Spencer announced that the Xbox One could see mid-cycle upgrades in the near future. Now, according to a report from Kotaku's Patrick Klepek, we know that Sony may be doing something similar. Sources tell the site that the company is developing a "PlayStation 4.5" which will offer greater graphical power and which will be able to run games at 4K resolutions. This new model would retail for $400, which was the price of the current $350 model up until this past holiday season. While multiple sources reportedly confirmed this to Kotaku, Sony declined to comment.

There aren't many more details than that at this time, but if you're interested in more info on the reporting itself, make sure to go read Patrick's story. What there are a lot of at this time are a lot of big questions about how Sony plans on pursuing this strategy. What, if any, sort of VR integration will we see in this new hardware? Exactly how much more power would this new unit have? Would the "PlayStation 4.5" be a stop gap between now and an eventual PlayStation 5, or is the whole platform shifting to the incremental upgrade model that we see in smartphones and tablets?

The iPhone has seen 12 models in only eight years. (Photo from the Kent-Meridian High School News Paper. Yes. Really.)
The iPhone has seen 12 models in only eight years. (Photo from the Kent-Meridian High School News Paper. Yes. Really.)

Though I've used the "iPhone" analogy a lot to describe this idea recently, I'm increasingly unsure that it's a solid metaphor for this situation. Smartphones are fundamentally different than game consoles. For many of us, our phones a constant presence in our lives, a McLuhan-esque extension of the self, not just free-time hobby machines (though they sometimes also serve that purpose). Are people really interested in moving into a two or three year replacement cycle for our game consoles in the same way that they do with their phones? Would phone-like subsidization make that a more attractive option?

Perhaps no question is as important as: How will Sony's fans respond to this? Last month on the Beastcast, we had a chat about the current state of game consoles, and many of the responses we received were clear: People love consoles because they're convenient. A single purchase will last you at least five years, and you don't need to worry about compatibility, performance options, or hardware upgrades. So if I'd just purchased a PS4 for 349.99 in the last few months, I'd be livid right now. And I say that even though I know that there are a lot of positives behind this sort of thing. Giving the PS4 a power boost would allow the platform to keep up with the PC (and now, it seems, the Xbox One too), it lets VR developers to push their games a little further, and it means that if I ever do get a 4K TV, my PS4 games would look great on it. Except my PS4 games actually won't unless I go out and drop another $400. At that point, why am I not thinking about jumping ship?

(I should note, briefly, that from a non-business standpoint, there is one question more important than consumer retention: How much additional electronic waste will come from more rapid console cycles? The constant trashing and replacement of technology is sort of a big problem right now, y'all)

The Super Famicom Satellaview is an entirely different sort of mid-cycle upgrade, but I just really wanted to write
The Super Famicom Satellaview is an entirely different sort of mid-cycle upgrade, but I just really wanted to write "Satellaview." What a good name.

In writing this out, I've almost instinctively typed out "this is a mess" like five times now. There's so much to keep in mind when trying to analyze this decision, and with no official statement from Sony on this, speculation runs wild. I may have criticized the vagueness in Phil Spencer's talk back in early March, but at least he laid out a broad vision for the future of Xbox. Obviously Sony would've preferred for this not to leak out at all, but by proactively addressing the new Xbox One initiative ahead of any leaks, Spencer was able to control the message. But with regards to the PlayStation 4.5, all we have is social media skepticism and our own best- and worst-case scenarios.

The hope is that when this is all settled, we'll look back at this and think of it as an incredibly exciting moment of positive change for the console market. But with so little to go on, that's asking for a lot of faith from a consumer base that is already facing a rapidly changing market, a new luxury-priced VR ecosystem, and an overall lack of strong console exclusives. Hopefully we'll have a lot more specific information in place by the time E3 is over, if not sooner. Until then, all we can do is wait and see.

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Regular_Kirk

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Edited By Regular_Kirk

Wow... 2 1/2 years in and needs an overhaul already, what a lemon (Xbox too). They either severely overestimated the original's capabilities, or more likely lied through their teeth with the initial promises.

And now 4K they say, are we even sure it can do 1080p 60 frames this time...

Just to play devils advocate developers hadn't locked down frame rate issues when they made the jump from SD to HD. Making the jump to 4K when devs still fail to lock down 1080p at 60 frames is no surprise.

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deactivated-58ca104190dca

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Pretty unsurprising given to produce a decent VR experience you can't run games at the current console standards.

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BelowStupid

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@groundbeef said:

Wow... 2 1/2 years in and needs an overhaul already, what a lemon (Xbox too). They either severely overestimated the original's capabilities, or more likely lied through their teeth with the initial promises.

And now 4K they say, are we even sure it can do 1080p 60 frames this time...

Just to play devils advocate developers hadn't locked down frame rate issues when they made the jump from SD to HD. Making the jump to 4K when devs still fail to lock down 1080p at 60 frames is no surprise.

There's never going be a box that does X rez at 60 frames standard for every game because a lot of developers would rather make the game with a higher poly count, better particle effects, textures, or whatever and drop frame rate to 30, Tobal 2 for PS1 ran at 60 fps back 1997. Multi-platform PC games get 60 because generally the lead development platform (ps4) is a lot weaker than a modern pc so they can just push the extra frames.

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nasher27

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Edited By nasher27

@ir0n said:

Let's talk business for a second:

I don't get why people bring up phones. The business model is totally different. Apple and Samsung sell hardware at a significant profit - selling hardware is the core of their business.

Microsoft and Sony sell hardware subsidized or at best at cost for major parts of the hardware's life span. They make profit on software sales.

Iterating on hardware at shorter cycles could lead to higher revenue but that doesn't necessarily make the business as such more profitable for Sony and MS.

The most important factor for their business model is the user base.

A simplified example - if they currently sell at a rate of 15M units annual (random figure from top of my head), sales of 18M PS 4.5 first year would only benefit them if the 3M extra would not be driven by PS4 users switching over to the new versions. That doesn't make them sell more game copies than another 15M PS4 year would have done.

Their business model would actually be less compelling in that scenario as the profit to sales ratio would go down.

A business case in favor of Playstation 4.5 would require an increased growth rate in user base not hardware sales in comparison to the current one.

I could see a company making a case for a shorter cycle if the user base growth rate would be significantly lower than projected ahead of launch when the business case for the hardware has been laid out - so MS could probably much easier argue internally in favor of pulling the plug on the current One than Sony would be, having both consoles sales figures in mind.

Sorry to dredge up one of your older posts, but I was enjoying the business model conversation and thought I would offer my two cents.

I think their proposed business model in this is far simpler than you realize. Let's say Sony is selling the current PS4 at cost, so $350 with no profit to be made. Now this model assumes (and I think rightfully so but I digress) that the PS4.5 is simply a PS4 internally with the better upscaling hardware and the internalized VR hardware, nothing nearly as drastic as what some people are thinking.

If they can fit these chips into the console for the price of $15 per box, and then turn around and sell that "new" console for $400, then they have created a 10% profit margin for themselves. Many companies operate on much less than 10% profit margins. So, they will keep their margins on software and peripherals and introduce a ~10% margin on their console. Seems like a pretty good business move to me.

Sony is in bad shape as a company right now. My price assumptions may be completely off base here, but I think this entire thing hinges on the fact that they will be able to sell their console for $400 again and begin to make a profit (while also reacting to the Xbox One hardware rumors by being able to say "Game at 4K!" the same way they did with 1080P on PS3).

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BelowStupid

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Edited By BelowStupid
@ninjalegend said:

@mike: No system war debate implied. I am wondering why upgrading consoles is a big deal when a minor upgrade to your phone/handheld/Ipad/PC is not even blinked at. And buy the way, just because you can't see a charge right off the bat does not mean you are not paying for it. $400 plus dollars is absolutely built into your contract. Nothing is free sir. A large part of gas price per gallon is state and federal tax. Just because it does not tell you at the pump does not mean you don't pay it. I don't upgrade my phone every generation so I had to ask my friends "what is the big difference?". Turns out not much. Better displays and a few apps I don't care about. Because I use my phone to make phone calls for the most part I don't upgrade. I also don't get outraged because I did not upgrade and can't use a new app. Games are apps. I don't see a difference at all. Except that you need to buy a new phone every year or so instead of every 4 years like they are suggesting with the PS4.5 or new Xbox one upgrade. Not upgrading a console, phone or PC does not make any one of those obsolete. I would suggest it is apples to apples. Not the game, but the sayings.

It's a difference in expectations, and cultures. Console people 1 use them as a hobby box, and 2 have been conditioned to expect consoles to last at least 5 years, that type of expectation isn't going to go away that quickly when it's been the norm for over 30 years.

Phones however are literally a necessity, and there is a clear process to convince people to buy a new phone. My contract is up after two years ( I have a 5S ) and I go to verizon to reup right? I looked up the price of the new Iphone SE today and I'll pay nothing upfront for that $400 phone to renew my contract. Now you're right that there are hidden fees, but I'm not paying that all at once, and my contract isn't going up a significant amount. All that and I get a new phone, and sure there are plenty of people who pay full price for an Iphone 5 to Iphone 6 day 1, there are hardcore phone lovers. Most people are reuping their contracts so they get (or at least think they're getting) a better deal on a new phone when they're going from a iphone 4s to iphone 6.

PC people have always paid high prices for parts for better performance that's just the norm.

To be clear I'm interested in a PS4.5 if it's worth it, but I understand why people aren't.

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elcidtmax

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Just guessing at it, here's what I think we'll see with the new hardware. Pure guesswork here:

Specs:

AMD Puma based (successor to the Jaguar)
same 8GB RAM amount w/ higher speed
supports 4K output and 4K blu-ray
same hard drive - maybe 1TB minimum

Impact on games:

4K resolution - outputs to 4K televisions natively
Most games will just be upscaled on the PS hardware with no special enhancements
Higher resolution textures on select games only- likely first party only
Antialiasing improvements for most games
More consistent framerates for existing and new games
60fps for games that currently support 30fps today unlikely
less heat and fan noise generated for current games
PSVR CPU image processing / reprojection overhead to be reduced
PSVR framerates also to benefit
PSVR Social screen image quality will be improved somewhat - may hit 1080p

Overall I think you will see an incremental improvement that will equate to 20%-25% more power and most noticeably 4K support. I don't think this will double framerates by any measure. I would be very surprised if we heard much more about this before next year as it will cause market confusion during the PSVR launch. I also think there will still be a PS5 at some point in the future that will represent more of a generational leap.

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deactivated-5d1d502761653

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@nasher27 said:

I think their proposed business model in this is far simpler than you realize. Let's say Sony is selling the current PS4 at cost, so $350 with no profit to be made. Now this model assumes (and I think rightfully so but I digress) that the PS4.5 is simply a PS4 internally with the better upscaling hardware and the internalized VR hardware, nothing nearly as drastic as what some people are thinking.

If they can fit these chips into the console for the price of $15 per box, and then turn around and sell that "new" console for $400, then they have created a 10% profit margin for themselves. Many companies operate on much less than 10% profit margins. So, they will keep their margins on software and peripherals and introduce a ~10% margin on their console. Seems like a pretty good business move to me.

Sony is in bad shape as a company right now. My price assumptions may be completely off base here, but I think this entire thing hinges on the fact that they will be able to sell their console for $400 again and begin to make a profit (while also reacting to the Xbox One hardware rumors by being able to say "Game at 4K!" the same way they did with 1080P on PS3).

That's probably the most likely scenario someone brought up to date. A significant boost in performance isn't to be expected without raising the price north of 400 bucks (and in the current market I think everyone will try to avoid putting out a console at a higher price point). If they manage to add an 4k Upscaler in order to market it as 4k ready/supported they might be able to make a profit at a 400 $ price point.

Out of curiosity, aren't the textures on a lot of games even today not of a resolution below HD and wouldn't those not look more (noticeable) worse if the image as such just gets upscaled to 4k? I am everything but an expert on these technical aspects, so I could be totally off on that one.

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kala18

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Edited By kala18

Haha, maybe the mysterious ViTA port will come in handy, psvita+ps4=unlimited power :P

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chilipeppersman

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@liquidus: yeah man ill happily keep my ps4 and save the money for upgrading my aging PC

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Hey small games at 2-4K, and all major titles at 1080p 60fps, is ok with me... but lets nail that last part, first and make sure we set 1080p/60fps as a mandatory bar. I'm so underwhelmed that we still haven't hit that mark consistently in this generation and figured it was going to happen. Screw toying with 4K IMO.

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hippie_genocide

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4K? Don't talk to me about 4K when you can't even reliably do 1080p/60fps on most of your games. This generation of consoles has been a total clusterfuck. We've been talking about 1080p resolutions since the launch of the PS3, and we're still not there really on all games at good frame rates. I think I'll stick to PC for the vast majority of my gaming and whatever Nintendo puts out there for the 5 or 6 games worth owning for that system.

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amafi

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4K? Don't talk to me about 4K when you can't even reliably do 1080p/60fps on most of your games. This generation of consoles has been a total clusterfuck. We've been talking about 1080p resolutions since the launch of the PS3, and we're still not there really on all games at good frame rates. I think I'll stick to PC for the vast majority of my gaming and whatever Nintendo puts out there for the 5 or 6 games worth owning for that system.

Can't even do full hd at a solid 30 in most of the ps4 games I own that aren't small indie games, there are at least occasional frame drops in nearly all the big ones. It's so bad I even buy Ubisoft games on the PC, because I'd rather deal with all their inside out faces and other BS than the framerate ever dropping into single digit. Once that happens I'm done with that game forever.

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MEA_Sonic

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Everybody just calm down. First of all, stop comparing this to the mobile phone market. Sony and MS are not interested in destroying their fanbases. Microsoft and Nintendo are pushing for iterative improvements or ditching the console cycle entirely, respectively. Both need to do so. Nintendo misjudged the market with the WiiU and Microsoft let their arrogance get the better of them. Sony is flying high and has no reason to mess up a good thing. They do, however, need to get out in front of this soon or this negative reaction will sour people's view on this console generation. My PS4 runs games just fine. I know it is always stated that PC is blowing past this console generation, and yet other videogame forums are filled with threads by PC gamers complaining about publishers botching console ports, port beg threads, and crying about how their 4 year old graphics card doesn't play the hottest, newest, shiniest games. The fact is we are not switching over to the Apple/Samsung sales model. The PS4.5 is a stopgap to fend off any potential gains Microsoft could see from releasing a technically more powerful console, while also buying Sony time to develop a truly next gen PS5 3-4 years from now. This should be viewed in the same vein as the Xbox 360 Elite or Slim Model, where we saw incremental increases in tech that still supported those who adopted at launch. The fact is the 500 gigabyte HDD available at launch were woefully incapable of supporting a large games library, and Sony had yet to include 4K support. This will be the final iteration of the PS4. Do not expect to see anything else from them until PS5 in 2019.

Prediction:

PS4.5 4K Ready, VR Ready Base Console:

Internal 1-2 TB HDD (Not SSD)

HDMI 2.0 port

4K Blu-Ray Disk Drive

4K Upscaler (Not true 4K rendering)

PSVR Processing Unit now internal

Price: $449

PS4.5 4K Ready, VR Bundle:

Same as above

Includes PSVR Headset and Camera

Price: $599

Release-2017

Move controllers sold separately.

I base this on absolutely nothing.

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xsomnivm

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If it's just a hardware revision that allows for 4k video then it's fine by me, but if this new hardware makes it so that certain games can only run on the "PS4K" then this will be the last gen I buy consoles.

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monkeyking1969

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Everybody just calm down.

Prediction:

PS4.5 4K Ready, VR Ready Base Console:

Internal 1TB HDD (Not SSD)

HDMI 2.0 port

4K Blu-Ray Disk Drive

4K Upscaler (Not true 4K rendering)

CPU: x86-64 AMD 'Jaguar' 8 at 14nm (upgraded from 28nm)

PSVR Processing Unit now internal

Price: $349.95 by Nov 19th 2017

PS4.5 4K Ready, VR Bundle:

Same as above

Includes PSVR Headset, Processing unit, Camera and Move

Price: $599 $824.95

Release- by Nov 19th 2017

I base this on absolutely nothing.

I know you said based on nothing, but my guess is PSVR remains un-intergarted for the rest of the PS4's life. I also bet on prices being kept low, thus no large HDD, and no frills on base 4K model. But, just like you this is based not on facts but what Sony has done on the past with slim models.

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estragon

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If you would be livid, I'd be goddamn mad. Living in a country with some of the most expensive Ps4 prices in the world, and much smaller income per household, getting a console is a commitment for us. The New3ds already made me upset, if this is true, I'd lose a lot of trust on Sony.

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VioleGrace

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Edited By VioleGrace

----> inserts ps4 disk...

*Error ! your ps4 is not powerful enough to run this game, please upgrade!*

me -----> Ok, throws the whole system in the trashcan since it's useless from now on.

I'm sorry to say this, but the PC is the feature, I don't have a decent gaming PC atm but I am planning on selling my ps4 to a clueless person as soon as I am 100% sure these news are true, and putting a couple hundred dollars on the way will surely get me something good.

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Edited By Mike17032

Fuck that shit. I sure as hell won't buy a new console from either company. I already almost never turn either one on, and if they are depreciated already then chances are I will never buy another console again.

I invested the money I did at the launch of these consoles assuming I would be good for the life of this generation.

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glots

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deactivated-5d1d502761653

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Fun fact - I built my current PC 4 years ago and will probably upgrade end of the year/early 2017 (after the next GPU generation's dust has settled). Those 5 years will put me at console generation range, while at the same time consoles start iterating at frequency most PC enthusiasts do not. What an odd generation this one turns into.

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I hope they dont working on an Ps4K. If tey working on it, this was a big fail

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@tarkasta said:

I hope they dont working on an Ps4K. If tey working on it, this was a big fail

I hear yeah. But at this point now I am interested in the story itself. I'd love to know what developers actually saw and were told and what they inferred. I'd love to know if this was just R&D that was shown around too much, if it was a 'possible' solution that wasn't mean to be considered unless PS4 failed, or if Sony is considering this at all?

I think the story is now "the story" and that they possibility of this actually being a product that is sold is very doubtful. One part of me also wonders is this was a request of the Sony TV hardware division. If anyone at Sony has a dog in the hunt for pushing 4K, it their much reduced and weakened SHDTV division. I cna easily see PlayStation R&D playinhg around with PS4K and the TV divisions wetting their panties hoping that might happen. Again that is just libelous speculation on my part (grin), yet I see no advantage to the PlayStation Division and the only people who woudl want to push 4K now are the TV folks.

As I said above, 'this story' about the whispers at GDC is now the more interesting story. I think 90% of game pundits and gamers have said very clearly, "HELL NO". Only Greg Miller (PS I love you XOXO) has said he'd "be for this" out of ALL the podcasters I have heard in the past three weeks. And no offence, but Greg liked Batman V Superman; so I prefer to think he is feeling ill and is thus confused.

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I like and i dont like these news about "PS4K" xD

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Edited By ThePanzini  Online

@monkeyking1969: Sony said this before the PS4 was released, and floated the upgrade idea last year. Normally three years in you would release a slim to cut costs but both consoles atm are built cheaply using of the shelf PC components and sold at a profit, so what would be the point?. Why not instead sell a newer model at the original launch price with better specs and give the old model a price cut.

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monkeyking1969

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@monkeyking1969: Sony said this before the PS4 was released, and floated the upgrade idea last year. Normally three years in you would release a slim to cut costs but both consoles atm are built cheaply using of the shelf PC components and sold at a profit, so what would be the point?. Why not instead sell a newer model at the original launch price with better specs and give the old model a price cut.

Sure, after five or six years of selling PS4 and then openly at e3 telling the world that a new system is coming, then selling a PS5 is reasonable. But after 3 years? Three years and then they disenfranchise their customers suddenly without warning? Nope, that is a stupid idea. Just look at what chaos Microsoft did to the XBox brand by trying to change the rules of a market place.

No, sorry, springing a new system on people is a poorly conceived idea. Splitting their market when they are doing fine is a solution to a problem the market place did not have. Sony could put out a system that isn't just a slim with a better video encoder; but, if the do, they will wreck everything they just rebuilt since PS4 launched.

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deactivated-5d1d502761653

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Let's see how they frame it at E3 (which I think is the very last they have to give insight on their plans now that the genie's out of the bottle).

It will be a tough sell as their entire marketing pitch during E3 13 was "we are not MS, we provide you the classic console model you know and love". If they really offer a beefed up 4.5 not only a version that has a build in upscaler this is a huge gamble where they risk to loose trust at major parts of their 40 million PS4 users and to burn all the momentum they build over the past years.

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AcidBrandon18

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I'd rather buy a PS4k to replace my PS4 than put money into a gaming PC.