Also, as the guy who jumpstarted the save scum conversation from a perspective where the concept was only ever remotely relevant playing the XCOM reboots...I get why the PC crowd got fired up so quickly. While I am - and to as much of my ability will continue to - still pretty devoutly in the "whatever will be will be" camp, having read the many descriptions of situations that go awry simply because of errant companion AI while exploring and already stumbled into an extended combat sequence I can't help but wonder whether my conniving bard could've bantered his way through I'm definitely at least actively getting in the habit of saving before I open just about anything.

I don't want to walk back things that go poorly if they simply defy my expectations, but it certainly sucks to walk up a hill and get slaughtered by enemies I wasn't prepared for, only to have to retrace ten-plus minutes of steps to get back to where I was and cross my fingers I'm a quick learner. Meeting a certain named and voiced character I've got no context for but seen a few references to by simply opening a casket - after triggering a battle I probably should've seen coming by simply opening the room that contained said casket - makes it clear this isn't the typical console-guy RPG song and dance. I could get real fucked.

Sorry to've been so cavalier before actually getting in the shit with this sort of game!

Edit: on a smaller note that doesn't deserve it's own comment, it's also quite jarring how...PC game these cutscenes are. It was cute with The Witcher 3 because I hadn't seen things that looked this animatronic since the pre-GTA III days, or the Yakuza series because when RGG deigns to make a statement they ramp it up accordingly, but it's truly hilarious to me how often this game seems to have set Mass Effect I or II as its ceiling for production value. Not even bad funny, or even good funny...just plain funny. No matter the stakes of the dialogue, the animation gives the impression of funning around with action figures on a stormy summer evening. Being that I'm playing this just after a round of articles extolling the breadth of motion capture work that went into nearly 300 characters...

I'm no dunce, I know Larian isn't Guerilla, but compared to Horizon's direction and cinematography of the most innocuous little chats I'm often (and again, this is the news cycle's fault, not necessarily the game's) expecting a lot more than I'm getting from that end of the game. Loving the (voice) acting and writing though! Plus, last minute edit: now fully exploring the grove (yes, I'm throwing hot takes this early) the conversational animation is picking up significantly, but I can't imagine any action sequence looking better than dumb as rocks.

Stuff like comparing this game to blockbuster Playstation first party games is why I often ignore a good chunk of gaming news media in general but especially when it comes to the people who do opinion/hot takes stuff for them. Comparing this game to something like Horizon is dumb on so many different levels. Chances are Guerrilla had a budget and staff an entire order of magnitude or more larger than what Larian had to make this game (Remember, apparently before launch the forecasted sales for this game were not that high so it likely didn't have that big of budget. The game was a surprise hit). Not to mention Larian is a relatively small studio building a game of massive scope whereas Guerrilla had support from Sony in making the game. It wouldn't shock me if Horizon Forbidden West's mocap budget alone was nearly as big as the entire budget for BG3 given that realistic looking animation was a big focus. Of course Horizon's going to look much better on that front.

I dunno, I think the animation looks pretty good and the mocap gives a lot of personality to all of the characters important or otherwise. I would not say that it looks like banging action figures together and it doesn't seem like many others do for that matter.

Yeah it's not Horizon, it doesn't compare all that cleanly to.. let's say.. one of the best examples of this particular thing out there right now. But I dunno how well that warrants this... "Oh, how quaint!" attitude either.

Maybe a month after release is a little late to be asking this, but I'm still in Act 2 myself, what is everyone playing as? For my primary playthrough, I settled on my pretty boy Tiefling warlock. He's an Archfey warlock, dealing with mostly charm spells, deception, and lite mischiefs. While not a bard, he does play violin. I was using a staff at one point, but decided to switch over to dual daggers.

@brian_: Speaking of a little late, as the originator of this thread I still haven’t weighed in. To be honest, I’ve allowed my partner (who played way more of the other BG games than I did) prima nocte on the game, so I’m only a few hours in. However, since you asked a question I can actually contribute to: I went with a Half-Orc Paladin with an Oath of the Ancients. Apparently Paladin is a pretty common choice, but I wanted to play one for years in D&D. They didn’t ask my alignment but I’m RPing as an affable Neutral Good that is pretty much up for whatever. Fortunately, the tenets of Oath of the Ancients appear very in line with what I already had in mind.

This character is based off a Dwarf Paladin I used in an aborted game of Tomb of Annihilation, which worshipped a homebrew god of wine named Mol Manat. He was an elderly person who found faith late in life after his husband and children all died in a mining accident. I’ve been trying to bring a similar energy to my BG3 pally whenever dialogue affords me the chance.

Side note: the bonus action 2-round heal aura feels borderline unfair at times. Seems like something 5e would give you at level 11, not right away.

My first playthrough character was a high elf sorceress sage who was essentially a glass cannon. She could deal massive damage in fights but was kinda useless otherwise. She basically relied on Karlach and Lae'zel to soak up all the damage in fights while casting spells from a distance.

I haven't committed to a second character for my next playthrough yet but right now I'm playing a few hours as a wood elf ranger (I know, boring and predictable) who also happens to be good at deception and thievery-type skills. The ranger class is pretty fun because of how flexible it is. I might do ranger/rogue multiclassing later on though my ranger already has several stealth-related skills.

I was surprised that Larian said the most popular class in the first month was the paladin. Given everything I've read and seen about that class, it seems like a kinda rough one for a first playthrough since it railroads you into picking certain decisions unless you are going for the whole oathbreaker thing. On Nextlander's stream, Vinny accidentally broke the oath without trying.

@ben_h: I found it very easy to keep a Paladin oath narratively, now mechanically... you know that whole tactic of setting up battles beforehand and getting the jump on tough enemies? Yeah that's a paddlin you don't just attack people out of nowhere apparently.

I had thought that the least popular was Cleric though. Paladin is such a powerful class and a pretty staple "Main Character" feel too.

I normally wouldn't have much interest in Paladin, but I did start a Dark Urge character as a Paladin figuring there would probably be some pretty interesting conflict there.

Ok yeah that sounds reasonable. I'd have to check again but if I remember right Larian said the least popular two classes were the obvious support classes like bard and cleric. That makes sense to me especially when they chuck a cleric at you right out of the gate so you have a support character already. For multiplayer sessions that obviously probably doesn't apply.

Yeah I feel like... most people are using Shadowheart anyway so just nudge her out of that awful Trickery domain and you'll be set.

Bards are great though, that is what I had as my initial Dark Urge character.

Well, this game is pretty damn fun. It seems perfectly paced. I really haven't been bored much yet. It's pretty unpredictable what is going to happen, and while it stays with well-worn high-fantasy tropes, within that range it manages to do a lot of fun things. It still has the RPG problem of making you wonder why so many people just go with you anywhere. I love that one NPC was like, "What? You want me to just, like, follow you around everywhere? Uh no, I have my own shit to do." This game is a real good time.

It's pretty lame how finnicky the locations of certain things can be. I just had Shadowheart die die and though a bit of Googling assures me I can bring her back when I go back to camp.

To be honest, because I've been so loud about my story being my story no matter what that story ultimately is I was fully prepared to just loot her and let it be, but when I realized I had scrolls of revivify on hand and that'd do the trick for free it was a pretty big bummer to learn that a space that I thought acted as pretty good cover (A - it wasn't, she's dead lol and B) can't get a read on how important positioning really is in this game yet) has really only protected her from one thing - my ability to revive her. I can loot her, but if I try to interact in any other way it says "target is blocked!" So odd. Maybe that phrase is just communicating something other than I think it is.

Oh well, my squad is wrecked to shit anyway, so back to camp it is. Lesson(s) learned. One other thing I'll say is that it would've been nice for the game to recognize the significance of the situation in some way. I didn't realize she wouldn't get up after the fight, nobody wanted to talk about how dead our friend was either after the battle or in camp. It was kind of like she never existed, and sure it's early in the game and we all barely know each other but it strikes me as odd party members can get 86'd with such little fanfare.

@nodima: With Revivify you target the character and then target an empty space for them to revive into so maybe that's what is being blocked?

@efesell: In this situation, I couldn't click on her period, that was where I got the blocked message. Maybe they have to be revived really close to their corpse? Again, I had her tucked away in a spot I'd compare to the utility pocket on the right side of most jeans rather than a normal pocket. She was well tucked away.

I feel like as usual I'm just pointing out a lot of things that feel off to me so here's where I'll say I'm really enjoying these characters, and having a lot of fun trying to be the character I envisioned as often as possible - an aging half-orc bard desperate for fame after decades of toiling in pubs for rent money and willing to do anything to get what he wants - but having only ever gotten drunk while other people played D&D, I just keep reflecting back to those experiences and the ways some people have described this game and wondering why, while again having a really good time, I'm not feeling that wonderment over the vast possibilities. It's feeling like a pretty typical video game to me so far. Most specifically, I kind've assumed being a bard I could roleplay this sort of persuasive rapscallion more obviously, but so far it seems like any time I've got beef with something or they've got beef with me it's immediately go time, no time for charm or chatter. I wasn't expecting that, or I'm missing something.

But I also played Dishonored like Call of Duty and fell off Tears of the Kingdom fast because I'd rather get on with it than build a Hyrulian armored core so it could just be me.

it's not an infinite possibility space- that's for sure. and if you look you can find the seams- at least in the PS5 version (i've had to adjust audio settings to avoid channels crashing; texture pop-in is pretty egregious; the game is about a half a second behind everytime i initiate a filmic dialogue sequence and it warps in a third party to look inquisitive in the background).

but then again- i've been introduced to Karlach and done exactly one of her character quests and instantly i'm reminded that good character work in games is the bleeding exception, not the rule. for my part, this game joins the elite squad of party-based games that understand dialogue is a means to emotionally understand a character- IN ADDITION TO getting the player where they need to be mechanically. and because of that, i'm having a hoot.

edit: i will say for what it's worth on my personal playthough- rolling a half-orc barbarian berserker, if a bit cliche, does produce a lot of pretty great options for my intended RP of a character who frequently experiences a degree of prejudice. i've been impressed with the degree that dialogue can react to nuance if you push it there, but again it's a readily predicable character-type.

@mellotronrules: Oh for sure, whenever I find room to hint at how I'm having a blast despite deliberately creating a character that plays into my own interests but makes the combat less blunt than I'm accustomed to, a lot of that fun is fueled by the context and content of each quest. And despite that internal wrangling with what I expected to be, as you said, an infinite possibility space that often just does video game stuff...I also play video games, and enjoy video game stuff. It's fine. The gap between the PC and PS5 release just seemed to have an impressive amount of folks, from Reddit to seemingly every gaming pod I listen to, describing this game as a leap forward in variable narratives.

And I get the sense that all those guys and gals I enjoy aren't entirely off base, I can tell this game accounts for a lot of what it allows. Unfortunately that also means I find it especially jarring when that's so not the case it's as if what just happened...didn't. While also appreciating that I might just be uniquely capable of breaking that level of immersion for myself because I've both never played this type of game (or at least...this type of this type of game before) before and seem quite talented at stumbling into the most simple minded approach to just about any task.

I wanna just wander up to large groups, sing some folk songs about their cultural heroes and bargain my way through the world. But so far I've usually gotta consider my weapons and armor, same as any other game, and it's taking a bit to measure those expansive expectations vs. what the game actually is. Though even that provides a decent bit of fun, as I'm playing this alongside Armored Core 6 which is almost entirely "it is what it is" in structure aside from the loadout designing. It's quite stimulating to swap between a game that seems to imbue every idea with an answer and another that mocks your creativity so enthusiastically.

So I guess I should say again, so far whenever I've been complaining about this game (other than the pop-in stuff I mentioned that seems to have been patched out or something?) those complaints are mostly loose change lost to the couch cushions of hype. I'm loving what the game is doing, I just can't help but let go of what I feel I was led to believe it was.

I'm getting close to, but not knocking on the door of, the end of the game. I'm playing a Half-Drow Rogue/Fighter. I'm a level 5 Rogue and the rest of my levels went into Fighter. I'm focusing on dual-wielding (one of my weapons is a shortsword that does life-stealing, the other is Phalar Aluve), I have an extra Bonus Action, I have two attacks, and I have Uncanny Evasion turned on pretty much all the time. And it's great in terms of single-target damage output, especially if I get a sneak attack off. I also have a crossbow and a lot of arrows for when things are far away or I'm looking for some kind of effect. I have 19 dex, decent constitution, decent charisma, and no strength.

I've mostly tried to be the "good guy" while also stealing stuff here and there.

I'd like to play through this game again a year or two from now, or whenever Larian finishes patching it up and after they do their inevitable Enhanced Edition or whatever. I'm not sure what I'll do then but right now I think the idea of playing it with a Paladin/Sorcerer sounds interesting. 2 levels of Fighter for Action Surge, extra health, and innate armor abilities, plus 5 of Paladin, plus five of Sorcerer could be really cool, at least it could be in my head.

I've never really been big on single-classing, I like my characters to be able to do multiple things well.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong guy, I meant to quote @brian_ because he asked what classes people were playing.

While I'm editing, I wanted to note... it seems like there's a lot of reaction to people playing a full-blooded Drow, but zero reaction to people playing a Half-Drow. This doesn't bother me, but I guess people just aren't as inherently suspicious of Half-Drow and can somehow tell that my character isn't 100% Drow? Also I threw Minthara off a cliff before realizing she could be a party member so maybe she would have had something to say about it.

@justin258: No worries!

I’ve seen people discuss PalaSorc builds for years now, and the consensus appears to be getting 6 of each as long as you’re capped at 12. The aura you get at Pally 6 is a bit too good to pass up, even if it’s a slightly inefficient use of Sorc. I think there’s some mechanism by which you cannibalize your Paladin spell slots to get more metamagic points but I’ve never played with it personally.

I feel like if I ever multiclassed, I’d lean Druid for a few levels to catch them at their most powerful for wild shape, then start digging into another class around level 4. Maybe Druid/Monk with the Dex/Wis synergy? Could be worth a shot, you hit level 3 super early in this game.

I've messed around with some ideas for multiclass characters, but whenever I get too far in my brain always goes "No. I need to see what level 12 in this class looks like." My previously mentioned tiefling was originally a wizard/warlock with the idea being that he was a studious dork that did a deal with a fey to become more charming, but then I just wound up respecing into full warlock.

I do have a half-orc monk that I based in strength instead of dex, and gave him a level in barbarian just for the rage. That just seemed like a fun character to have. Just a dude running around punching and throwing everything. I think my brain would probably be okay with letting me have a character that's level 11/1.

Also, when I had previously said I finally settled on a character. I didn't. I just keep making new ones. Wanted to try a Selune cleric to see how that would work with Shadowheart in dialogue. Turns out there really isn't much difference. I've seen maybe one or two extra exchanges in the first few hours of Act 1, but it doesn't really affect her favorability level too much, and her favorability is so easy to get up anyways that the relationship plays out exactly the same as every other playthrough.

That's what always happens for me too. I was gonna do ranger/rogue for my second playthrough so I could do high damage sneak attack ranged shots but the ranger already does such ridiculous amounts of damage that I kinda just want to see what a level 12 ranger looks like.

So far, the ranger class is incredibly fun. I prioritized dexterity and mobility so my character has 15m of movement distance per turn, which opens up the option of moving in, doing attacks, then fully moving back out of range. I have a couple items that boost the dexterity up to 19 (so they hit big with ranged and finesse weapons) and armour that boosts AC by dexterity modifier which means my character is at around 20 AC while only half way through act 2 so they basically never get hit.

I also have been pondering monk builds since running into monks in the game is so rare so I want to see how that class is. I think my dark urge run will be a monk with the logic being they banned themself from using weapons because of the dark urge or something silly like that.

Well, I'm currently 26 hours in and still in Act 1. I played several hours over the last day or so and I cannot stop. It's amazing. How shall I count the ways?

1. The story is a lot of fun. Its tone is rather unique. Lately it seems that all fantasy stories have to echo Game of Thrones, with its many battling houses and grim atmosphere. But BG3 is doing something different. It's hard to describe its tone exactly, but I would call it something close to a dark fairy tale. It does NOT take itself too seriously - there is a lot of humor and it made me laugh out loud on many occasions. But it's also not purely a comedy or satire. It has so many D&D / high-fantasy tropes, but rather than taking them fully at face value, or parodying them altogether, it simply does the best take it can on those tropes, taking them seriously but with a wink. The writers seem to love this world and get a kick out of twisting it.

2. The pacing is perfect. I never feel like I am treading water or grinding. There's always something interesting and unexpected happening. I never go too long without combat or dialogue. Exploring new corners of the map always reveals something unique.

3. It's some of the best merging of gameplay and story I have seen. Each reinforces the other in important ways. The decisions I make affect my characters' abilities in huge ways, and conversely, my characters' stats and items impact the story. I like that the combat is so seamless with the world - many things you do in combat are also useful outside of combat.

4. Speaking of combat, it's very fun! The difficulty curve has been just right for me so far, with battles being kinda tough but not frustrating. Usually if things are too difficult I can cheese my way out (ahem, always take smokepowder barrels.)

Yeah, BG3's tone, at least for me, reminds me a lot of the HITMAN: World of Assassination trilogy in that at the surface level it seems like a pretty serious game but if you pay any attention at all you begin to notice them either outright goofing about things or using the inherent ridiculousness of D&D tropes to make the game fun and amusing to play. I think the best example is the "talk to animals" spell. If you haven't used it, you'd think it would be a way to just get quest information from animals, but along with that they gave most of the animals personalities that make the spell worth using in general. I did not go into this game expecting a stray cat demand I swear fealty to them or for a bluejay to refer to a group of eagles as a bunch of "pricks".

I also totally agree that the default difficulty curve for the first playthrough is almost perfect. It's hard enough that it stops you from mindlessly brute forcing your way through the game but also forgiving enough to let you experiment. I'm on my second playthrough and the curve is much more noticeable now that I'm comfy with the game and is making me think of switching to Tactician. That's like the perfect setup for this: have a default difficulty that teaches you the game while challenging you throughout first and/or second playthrough then a more involved setting for after you have all the systems down and are more confident.

I think the difficulty curve is pretty good although it breaks really hard in your favor from act 2 on. Which is more a product of the way 5e scales than anything else I think. Like the difference between a level 4 and 5 character in 5e may as well be 10 levels in anything else.

218 hours over 38 days, I finally rolled credits on Saturday.

The end wasn’t as good as the journey, I thought the climax was fine but would have liked a much longer and more comprehensive epilogue, even just a slideshow would be already, I just wanted to see a bit more characters get included in the ending. Also, biggest complaint was JK Simmons phoned it in, which is weird considering he has tons of voice acting experiences, leading me to believe that he maybe didn’t have great direction for his character.

That and some of the act 3 bugs like lines misfiring that don’t match the choice that was made, and some odd UI fuckery where buttons didn’t do what they were supposed to, but they were all small bits, nothing game breaking.

None of this was bad enough to not even half a star off it for me, it’s still a 10. Absolutely loved this month I spent in Faerun. It’s top three RPG of all time, along with Disco Elysium and Planescape torment and top ten best games I’ve ever played.

Because the current conversation here is about the difficulty, I'll just say: personally, while I enjoyed about 10 hours of the medium difficulty, by the time I was discovering mini-bosses, let alone groups of multi-attack gnolls and whatnot, I dropped the game down to easy and still found a lot of the combat encounters quite punishing. Which invites the usual caveat that I'm a bit of a brute force dolt who probably isn't considering party composition or skill acquisition even remotely as comprehensively as I should be.

Additionally, those of you who found my stubborn position regarding save scumming may or may not be satisfied to learn I've learned my lesson. My party is stuck in a dungeon it can't fast travel out of and seems ill-equipped to complete due to, hilariously, a lack of junk to toss. There have been even been multiple brief sessions I've loaded up the game only for all 4 of my characters' perception checks to fail, meaning I can't even toss junk where it's needed to begin with. I've also wound up here after an attempt at cleverness led to murdering one potential party member before an attempt at mischief led to another two party members rejecting my gamesmanship and also choosing the losing side, ie. also dead.

So not only do I find myself stuck in a spot I'm not sure I'm capable of getting out of, but my four person party is literally all my party can be anymore. We've quickly clarified our band of merry pansexual misfits into a classic Warriors of, er, Dark scenario and as curious as I am to see how this whole thing might play out...

I'll circle back to my first statement and say I've felt stuck at level 4 forever, and that warning before entering the Mountain Pass that I'd have a hard as hell time hanging (on both normal and easy) had me desperate for XP opportunities that brought me here...and while I also understand that walking my game back to its most obviously open ended (but still post mutiny) state loses 2 hours of gameplay...that's also my cue to admit while I've had a pretty good time with this game, After 20+ hours I'm feeling more and more like I should've taken a long hard look at my Gerstmann School of Class Dunces diploma and taken a more brutish class because I feel like I'm rarely goofing my way through this game as the aging, opportunistic Bard I imagined in the character creator.

I'm just another Video Game Guy, murdering everything in my path. Which I think one or two people have responded to previous posts of mine explaining this isn't an infinite playground, which I accept and grasp the reasons for...but this deep in the game I've found myself in combat so often I can't help but wonder whether I really am too dense to play the sort of character I'd envisioned (or, even worse, make the most of this type of game) or even more worse, that despite the intensely significant variables I mentioned above that I could see clear alternatives for as they unfolded...the fact that I seem actually trapped somewhere with no escape other rolling back to an earlier save might be obviating the idea that not every D&D campaign allows idiots to finish them but also has me contemplating whether this level of player choice is not actually that kind of a gesture.

I do really like this game, and I hope I find a solution for the sorry state I find myself in (or eventually get over the idea of rolling back a couple hours) but I can't imagine I've find myself in that uncommon a predicament, much less how the game's not at least equally to blame as my own foolhardy approach.

@brian_:Are you always creating a new character for mechanical reasons? There's a guy named Withers who can respec you entirely for a hundred gold as many times as you want, he hangs around camp and everything. If you're just looking to try out a different class, you can just talk to that guy without restarting the game. If you're always looking for reactions to your race, background, etc., yeah, you have to restart everytime for that.

Where are you stuck at? I can only think of one place in the game that you can't fast travel out of and you're definitely not there yet. I could be wrong because I didn't spend much time fast traveling, except to camp for spell refresh.

As far as party comp, the guy I mentioned above, Withers, can re-do everything related to class and you can also "hire" new characters from him that don't have any story relevance.

I would avoid going through the Mountain Pass or proceeding to Act 2 in any other way until you're at least level 6.

If you're level 4 as a Bard, you probably have already picked a subclass. How are you trying to play them and what subclass did you pick? You can pick College of Valour and get free access to medium armor and shield proficiencies, which can give you a bonus to AC and make you more survivable. Also, at level 4 you can pick level 2 spells, which will allow you to pick Cloud of Daggers, which does decent damage and is also a great spell for chokepoints. Also, do you have access to Bless or Bane on any character? Blessing all four of your party members before a fight can give you a good leg-up for the first few turns, it gives you a bonus to attack rolls (attack roll = do you hit or miss the enemy, if your attack roll is higher than their AC you hit) and saving throws (does that spell effect hurt you or not) while Bane lowers the enemy's attack rolls and saving throws.

I've seen some discussion that BG3 is a good "first CRPG" and I think that's true to an extent, but unlike Pillars of Eternity/Pathfinder, it provides very little in the way of difficulty customization and provides no story mode (where you can't die). It also does very little to explain the DND 5E rules that it's based on.

As a final note, is Karmic Dice turned on? Karmic Dice was a somewhat controversial addition to the game. Basically, it says that if you've lost a bunch of dice rolls in a row, the next few dice rolls are going to lean in your favor with some background math. Which is great, but the opposite is also true - if you pass a bunch in a row, the game tilts things against you. I turned this off and didn't miss it at all, but if you have it turned on it might be screwing you over? Just a thought.

I hope I've helped at least a little. If I haven't, there's no shame in looking up help for these games, I was stubborn and played the older games on Core Rules over the past few years and spent a lot of time crawling around Wikis and twenty year old forums trying to find help.

@nodima: It sounds like you're probably stuck in the hag's dungeon which as a level 4 party the best bet is to turn around and walk out. You don't have to do the Pass yet focus on the Goblin Camp and Under the goblin camp.

@justin258: I'm mostly creating new characters just because I find the process fun. Usually, it's because I have some narrative idea in my head for a character and I want to see how the game reacts to it. Part of that is also experimenting with the mechanical combat side of the game and different classes, but I also enjoy seeing the leveling up process in action, which respecing with Withers wouldn't necessarily satisfy.

i'm still the throes of it (act 2 and having a ball, fwiw)- but if the Keighleys don't do a brief rendition of the tune 'Nightsong' during their Year in Review medley, i'm going to compose (then ultimately delete) a strongly worded post.

jokes aside, i keep half spoiling myself because this OST is so god damned good. more games need to utilize non-lyrical voice as an instrument. and the innumerable ways they manage to reincorporate the 'down by the river' leitmotif is just fucking rad.

@mellotronrules: I'm still in Act I so I haven't got far enough to know what you're referencing, but if you like games with non-lyrical voice in their music, you might check out Octopath Traveler 2. The soundtrack is gobsmackingly good. Each area has a different rendition of its theme for night and day, and the night themes often feature a kind of ethereal choir that is very... pleasing. See this track for example.

@wollywoo: this is a hot rec, ty! octopath 2 is defo on my list.

Holy shit, I just realized after pouring fifty hours into this game how spell slots work. I thought it was like the original BG games (dnd2e) where each spell could only be used once per rest. I was wondering why things seemed inconsistent. I just now realized that they can be cast as many times as you have spell slots, represented by the little icons with the boxes above the spells. I think I am dumb and/or this game is not great at explaining how it works. Now that I know, I think I prefer this flexibility over the old version, but damn. I wish I had known sooner.

The game's not great at explaining most things. It kind of just assumes you know you're playing 5e and a lot of how 5e, and D&D in general, works.

Yeah, the lack of explanation of how spell slots work affected me a lot early on too since I went into this game with no knowledge of D&D. After a few hours I figured out the basic spell slots, but all of the other types of spell slot-adjacent things took a lot longer (like the rolls Lae'zel has). I think spell slots in general are one of the things the controller UI do a lot better at indicating since normal and class-specific slots are depicted in the same way and they are much more prominently displayed. For example, for Shadowheart/healer cleric, she has a specific type of expendable spell slot. In the mouse/keyboard UI it doesn't show any numbers to indicate there's a limit on the number of times you can use it but on the controller UI it clearly shows two bars.

@ben_h: The M/KB interface definitely should show numbers for those abilities. At least it is doing so in my case. It doesn't show bars in the same way that spell slots do but all of those per rest abilities do have numbers on top.

Really like this game. Was ruminating on it yesterday and how well written its characters are. Its very cinematic and you can feel the love that went into it.

I was playing starfield today and just laughed out loud when one of my dialog choices was "Because I love you." in like my... 3rd or 4th conversation with a character I'd been traveling with for like 5 days.

Anyway BG3 isnt perfect but it doesnt need to be. I think the only thing it misses the mark on for me is loot. There is just far too much shitty loot with obscure, niche affects that sell for pennies that nothing feels very exciting outside of the legendary items. I found a certain mace at the end of ACT 1 that is truly legendary and feels like the awesome loot in Baldurs Gate and DnD in general. A hero is known by their prolific weapon, and that weapon should have a consitent poigniancy in the world.

Artemis Entreri has Charon's Claw, Wulfgar his Aegis Fang, and so should your hero their defining moment when they find "THEIR" weapon that lasts them their adventure. Like Carsomyr in BG2, the Short Sword of Mask or Blackrazor. Exciting weapons that define the experience.

Instead I have about 30 rings of middling affect that sell for 15-40 gold and aren't really worth the effort of selling, nor are they worth the effort of really using.

On loot, one option I wish did exist would be the ability to at least somewhat randomize which items are available or have the game populate loot and shops from a larger pool of items instead of shops always having the same thing. It would just change up each playthrough a bit without being too drastic. Like now that I know a certain dude sells a certain poleaxe I'm always gonna get that poleaxe on every playthrough because it's almost broken good.

I started a githyanki monk character since that's a common combo you run into in the game. It's pretty neat that the game changes the narration to incorporate githyanki terminology when you play as a githyanki. Also the character mentions needing to find their kin, which I assume means Lae'zel since she's in view in the intro.

@ben_h: Thats super cool with how significant the race change affects things. I can totally see myself playing through ACT 1 a number of times in my life.

I could go either way on the static vs randomized loot. On one hand I totally agree with you, it would spice up subsequent playthroughs.

But on the other hand I still get excited about fighting the Red Dragon in BG2 and getting Keldorn his Holy Avenger +5 and know that I can grab the Boots of Speed as soon as I do the Planar Prison.

I think if I had to pick I'd be in the camp thats looking to optimize and break the game on each subsequent playthrough.

Again like I said earlier there isnt too much loot that has me chomping at the bit excited. Part of that is simply the bounded accuracy compromise of 5e as a whole though.

It's crazy how this game seems designed to have multiple playthroughs, with a lot of locked-off content depending on your choices, when the main game is already so huge. Most games would have to choose between "long game with the same content no matter what" or "short game, but lots of replayability." Larian is like, "why not both?"

Well, how did they respond? That's something you can do in real life too. It just might not get the response you're hoping for. Anyway, the romancing in BG3 is a bit silly as well.

I don't have much to complain about in this game. One thing is that I wish there was more nuance in who becomes hostile. When you make certain choices, suddenly *everyone* in the area tries to kill you, even if they're obviously weak. I wish some of them would flee, or bargain with you, or try to take power themselves after their leader has died. Maybe it's too much to expect in a game that's already so reactive, but I feel a little bad having to kill *everyone*. Sorry about that, githyanki.

But generally, this game is something special, and has made it somewhere near the top of my all-time favorite games along with Outer Wilds, Mario 64, BG2, Final Fantasy VI, and the like.

Larian's previous game, Divinity: Original Sin 2, was also like this. There's a lot of variation in how things can go depending on what you do and how you do it. You can't even take all of the characters with you in one playthrough - you pick three other characters in the first act and that's your party for the game, if you want to know the other three character's stories you have to do another playthrough and pick up the other three characters.

In fact, I cannot stress enough how much Baldur's Gate 3 feels like a successor to DOS2 with a DND ruleset than a sequel to the original games. I don't present this as a bad thing, I think DOS2 is great and I think the original games are also great, but if you're ever looking for a similar game, DOS2 is going to scratch this itch more than the original games will.

Inventory management remains my biggest gripe with both this game and DOS2. More complex games in this genre have had vastly easier to manage inventories than BG3. Even the original games had easier inventory management than this one and those came out in 1998/2000. You could remove potion making and all of the associated ingredients and change almost nothing about the game. You might argue that would change something about the game's balance, but I would argue that I have made a handful of health potions and a few potions of speed and nothing else, I can't see it changing that much. Combine that with clearly marking what is vendor trash and what isn't and this game's inventory woes would be cut down significantly.

I started to write another bit about how grid inventories suck but realized that I actually wrote that bit in this thread two pages ago, refer to that for thoughts on the other thing I think they should have done for inventory purposes.

Everything else about this game... OK, Act 3 performance is still not great but everything other than those two things is golden. It's all great stuff. I'm sure I could nitpick here and there - I think Act 2 is weirdly paced and Ketheric Thorm's VA seems like he's supposed to be a lot hammier but actually he's just really flat and quiet for some reason - but these are minor gripes. I'm thrilled this game is having such a great reception and I think it really deserves it.

I just hope at least some of the people who love this go and play some of the other games in this genre. BG3 isn't the only game of this caliber under the term "CRPG", except in terms of budget and production value. Don't stop here. There's so much else to explore.

I grabbed Divinity: Original Sin 2 when it was on sale a week ago. I only have played the intro boat sequence and like 15 minutes past that but yeah the similarities immediately stuck out. The controller setup is very similar even down to the whole "hold down the A button and it will give you a list of every interactable item within a radius" thing. There were definitely things where it was clear they were polished up and functioned better in BG3 but the idea was there.

@ben_h: It's also wild how both games have practically the exact same "origin" structure, where your companions are also other possible origin stories.

I thought I couldn't just turn around and leave the dungeon I thought I was stuck in from my last post, but once I remembered I needed to wear a mask to go back through the door it didn't really matter because my character seemed to go insane the moment I crossed the barrier and the game insisted on playing along, losing all interactivity without hard locking every time. Yuck.

...That being said, I've also re-rolled as a githyanki monk (of my own volition, swear!) and A) have really enjoyed the subtle differences in a lot of the dialogue between this and my half-orc bard character but also B) way, way, way, way prefer playing this game on "easy" mode. The enemies still hit like brick shithouses but at least my characters can take a punch like the heroes they're purported to be.

It's also been weirdly entertaining to play Act 1 while knowing what I'm in for, as I'm not only able to purposely mix things up and see how/if the game accounts for it, but am also moving along much more quickly overall while stumbling onto several small side quests I missed. Plus I didn't accidentally kill Halsin this time, so I didn't go all in and massacre the druid camp, so I've not lost half my party with the snap of a finger. I won't lie and say I wish that old save didn't seem so borked so I could compare how the game progresses with or without, but the gamer-hoarder in me sure does feel more complete with all the homies in tow.

this game continues to do a number on me and my sleep hygiene.

i'll probably collect some thoughts once i'm fully on the other side of it- but good lord people...if you give me quiet character moments that strike out of no where, you've fuggin got me. i'm hooked.

stuff like this (act 2 side quest spoiler)-

https://youtu.be/m1XN8pj8UMc?feature=shared

sure it's a classic jedi/gandalf-ish moment, but eff me if i was expecting to catch Withers comforting a grieving child. tremendous acting as well!

The gigantic new patch, Patch 3, was just released (note that the patch notes are full of spoilers so don't read them if you haven't finished the game). There's so many changes that it took me well over 20 minutes to read through all the notes. Most notably you can now change how your character looks mid-game now though you can't change which race they are or body type. You also can't customize the Origin characters. Tons of QOL changes were done and little bugs were fixed. They seem to have spent a lot of time on fixing camera issues, which is welcomed because that was always one of the more irritating bits in the game. There's also apparently a bunch more performance work done specifically in Act 3 though I haven't had a chance to check it out yet. There's also a whole section of PS5-specific optimizations and changes.

The full Mac version of the game is now available. It was delayed a few times. It was supposed to be released at the same time of the PS5 version but hit several delays. I'll be checking it out since my laptop, which has the M1 Pro processor/GPU combo, is the recommended specification now. Given how beefy Mac ARM CPUs are, I'll be interested to see how Act 3 runs. I think the CPU in my Mac is roughly equivalent to an AMD 5700x or 5800x in outright single core performance so we'll have to see how it goes.

edit: The Mac version is great. It took a bit of tinkering but I had it running decently well on maxed settings (not bad given I'm using a base model M1 Pro MacBook Pro). On first launch, I got errors saying my saves couldn't be loaded but after a restart the game works fine. I even loaded a late Act 3 save to see how it would perform and it seemed totally fine. Not locked 60 FPS or anything but entirely playable. Much better than how my PC ran the third Act when the game was first out. If I only had a Mac it would be a totally viable way to play the game it seems.

Speaking of PC, their claims of improved Act 3 performance seem accurate. Outside of a couple particularly crowded areas, my PC can now run Act 3 at basically 60FPS minimum (Act 1 and 2 now perform perfectly). It's wild that a month ago I was lucky to see Act 3 running at 40 and it would drop into the teens at times. They put in some serious work.

I decided to try an evil run. As usual I'm running up against the issue where I actively feel bad when I have to make the evil choices but it's progressing. I'm finding I have a weird problem where I'm having trouble levelling up characters. It took me forever to get to level 5. I just finished Act 2 and compared it to my ranger save at the same point and I'm a whole level lower. Cutting out whole quest lines by killing or scaring people away does have consequences it turns out.

One thing that's really interesting is how much the game actively calls you out when you make the evil choices. I expected (Act 1 spoilers) Karlach to call my character a monster and to want to kill my character for killing the tiefling refugees but I definitely did not expect (Act 2 ending spoilers) the initially cartoonishly evil Minthara to also somewhat do the same. She basically says "hey I was being mind-controlled when we killed all those tiefling refugees so I wasn't in control of my actions. You weren't being controlled and did the whole thing on your own volition. Why did you do it?" and you are forced to answer her. The options you have to pick range from awful but utilitarian ("I did it because I thought you would have information about the tadpoles") to actually gross. Of course because she's Minthara, she accepts if you say you did it to get on her good side so she'd give you information. As an aside, I think I'm starting to see where they might take Minthara's character in Act 3 and it has the potential to be pretty interesting.

Also, the voice acting for Minthara is a lot. Like a LOT. The person who did it really knocked it out of the park.

@ben_h: Everything I read about Minthara makes me want to recruit her but I'm a big baby when it comes to doing the evil shit, to the degree where I put the game down for a bit because I didn't like what the evil choices were doing to my enjoyment of the game. This was well before even the option to do what you need to do to recruit her.

Still, I'm curious to hear more! It's odd how being evil seems to be making you less powerful, when most fantasy media is all about evil being the fast path to power. I wonder if the game has anything in it to incentivise players more? As it stands from your post, it seems like being evil gives you a chance at Minthara, makes you a little weaker, and gets you....passive aggressively lectured a lot? Haha

Thinking on it more, I bet it's because I did things in a weird order. (Act 1 spoilers) I skipped the druid grove in favour of heading straight to the goblin camp, which caused me to miss a bunch of grove quests. I bet you could go into the grove, do most of the quests there, find Karlach and Wyll, do their quests, then do the attack on the druid grove but I didn't think that made sense from a role-playing perspective. I didn't find Karlach until after the grove and Wyll died in the grove fight. The Karlach meeting scene completely changes if you meet her after wiping out the grove. She has nothing to say to you other than she wants to kill you. You can convince her not to waste her energy on you and avoid a fight but that's all you get for interacting with her.

The evil run is interesting in that it does feel a lot weaker in Act 1. Losing Karlach and Wyll means that you lack two good sources of damage dealing. The game is balanced enough that you can get by without them but not having Karlach means you end up in several extended fights without a consistent way of soaking up damage. My character is a paladin so they kinda replace that role but a lot of fights ended up being won by barely scraping by instead of cruising through them in my other runs.

But yeah, the game really rubs it in your face that what you're doing is bad early on. I forgot to mention they also make you (Act 1 spoiler) tell Zevlor to his face what you are doing when you open the gate for the goblins since he asks what's happening. It's an interesting way of handling things.

Minthara's a neat character so far but I can't see myself doing many evil playthroughs. It completely changes the vibe of the game. Though also (Act 2 Minthara spoilers) to do a truly evil, pro-Absolute run you wouldn't even get Minthara in your party since Ketheric Thorm condemns her to death, so you'd be down three characters in your overall party. You also wouldn't get Jaheira. Maybe that's what the hirelings are for.

@ben_h: ngl, I keep forgetting that the hirelings exist (mostly because of how much the companions add and I already have trouble ONLY taking 3)...but that makes a lot more sense. An argument could even be made role-playing wise that the more awful you get the harder it is to keep around reliable help, so you eventually have to hire people because no one wants to do it willingly? I might be giving a little too much credit haha

1 month, 200ish hours later and i've rolled credits. man! what an absolute pleasure this game was.

it isn't a flawless paragon of design (i had a decent amount of inconsequential crashes and graphical flukes)- and there's probably something to be said to the consistency of the experience. but all told this is my GOTY by a country mile, nothing else comes close (probably a lock in my top 3 for the decade if i'm being honest).

case and point (and from what i gather very common)- i completed the last encounter and then immediately jumped back into the character creator and started 2 additional runs.

some additional (and likely POST-COMPLETION SPOILER HEAVY) thoughts:

-this game does a tremendous job at levying several compelling antagonists against the player and IMHO does a better job juggling them than maybe any other game. sure, big bad brain pretty silly- but mindflayers conceptually are pretty great (if a trope; turns out the BORG are still pretty terrifying); the Chosen 3 are fun (Orin's GOTCHA! moments are particularly great), the Emperor/Balduran fucking sucks but in a good way, and Raphael might be top of the heap. i'll grant you that on an individual level, maybe some are better fleshed out (or more interesting) than others- but for the most part i think Larian nailed it.

-they really wrote the shit out of these companion characters, eh?! really, really solid multifaceted character development that just trounces so many contemporaries in the games space. the central motivator for my replays is just getting to know the rest of the cast; i went heavy on Karlach (duh), Lae'zel, and Shadowheart- but even there i feel like i only really focused on my big red devil barbie. speaking of which- for a character who fronts as the AFFIN A LAFF N' SMASHING BADDIES relief to Shadowheart's scowl or Astarion's conniving- the terminal illness subplot was not one i saw coming. Samantha Beart and Karlach's writers deserve all the accolades coming their way with performances like this: https://youtu.be/0MW4qC-bN6w?feature=shared

-i'm fully head over heels for this soundtrack. they have like 5 motifs that weave in and out of the game so naturally and poignantly- where it's cloying and tiresome in other scores, for whatever reason in this game it was a force-multiplier for me. i'm going to have to get a physical edition whenever it comes out, it's a forgone conclusion.

-i recently learned Withers and His Majesty are the same voice actor (shoutout to Withers having some of the most disarmingly poignant moments in the game)

-i also learned Gamespot alum Kevin VanOrd was the lead writer for Lae'zel (who might have some of the best character development in the game). so the fact that i have Kevin to thank for this is just the best: