Bloodborne Community Therapy [VENTING THREAD]

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#51 Edited by Giant_Gamer (754 posts) -

@honkalot: I think that you are using the axe. You might need to change your weapon into something faster like the cain.

You don't need to execute a full combo on Gascoigne just give him one to two hits then dodge. Also you could use this fight to learn how to parry and it will make things much easier for you later on.

I don't mind lending you help, if you had enough just pm your psn.

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#52 Posted by Honkalot (1040 posts) -

I got interested again after a friend started playing this. When I left off I hadn't beaten Gascoigne.

We just did Logarius in co-op and I could tell him being a pain in the ass to do alone... I did all the other bosses solo so far and I'm surprised by what bosses have actually been hard. I'd say the toughest so far was easily the blood-starved beast. Took me a lot of tries.

The most recent I've been to, Rom & The One, were both mostly tedious. I haven't beaten One yet but since I strolled in with 10 vials and got it to 10% it feels pretty doable. Just weird that they both just appear to be a 20 minute long strike once and run in a circle pair.

I've had more trouble with random hunters to be honest. Rifle spear hunter in particular.

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#53 Posted by Honkalot (1040 posts) -

Need help! I'm trying to co-op chalice dungeons with my friend. Having a lot of trouble getting it to work so we're trying from the very first one. I make one and give him the glyph. We try: search at once, Search when I'm in the dungeon, Search when I'm in the dungeon and ringing the bell. We're using the exact same tombstone, exact same chalice etc.

No matter how we try it the searching party always gets the error "No dungeons found using the chalice glyph". Whyyyyyy? It just never works.

Thoughts:

1) I haven't unlocked the makeshift altar chalice.

2) He is on NG+ and I am not.

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#54 Posted by Milijango (204 posts) -

I'm pretty sure the problem is that you haven't opened the chalice. When you're at the headstone try hitting square and selecting open. They're closed by default, i.e. cannot be shared.

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#55 Posted by dr_monocle (391 posts) -

Mmmmm....hey,all.

So I've had this since release. I love all the Souls games. All of them. Bloodborne is no exception. There weren't too many things in this game that caused me grief. Yeah, Ebrietas was rough, and I had a few outbursts of anger, but I persevered. It took me a few months. At the same time I was trying my hand with Gehrman . I first took him on in the summer, trying to feel out what works, ya know?

I CANNOT FUCKING BEAT THIS MISERABLE FUCK. I've read every strategy, tried multiple weapon/armor combos, I know his patterns, and I've even come close at times! I'm in my late twenties, and have been gaming since around 8 years old. I have never, never abandoned a game because it was too hard. But I feel like I'm at my breaking point. And the fact that I have to waste time farming quicksilver and vials every so often just adds to the torture...it's just...I dunno. It breaks my heart that I might have to walk away from this game, but maybe that's what needs to happen at this point.

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#56 Posted by golguin (5469 posts) -

Mmmmm....hey,all.

So I've had this since release. I love all the Souls games. All of them. Bloodborne is no exception. There weren't too many things in this game that caused me grief. Yeah, Ebrietas was rough, and I had a few outbursts of anger, but I persevered. It took me a few months. At the same time I was trying my hand with Gehrman . I first took him on in the summer, trying to feel out what works, ya know?

I CANNOT FUCKING BEAT THIS MISERABLE FUCK. I've read every strategy, tried multiple weapon/armor combos, I know his patterns, and I've even come close at times! I'm in my late twenties, and have been gaming since around 8 years old. I have never, never abandoned a game because it was too hard. But I feel like I'm at my breaking point. And the fact that I have to waste time farming quicksilver and vials every so often just adds to the torture...it's just...I dunno. It breaks my heart that I might have to walk away from this game, but maybe that's what needs to happen at this point.

If you need vials and bullets just the lantern at the Wetnurse fight and work your way back and you'll pick up enough souls to get all the vials and bullets you need. Once you have them go fight Gerhman, but don't use any of your own bullets or vials. Use the 5 free blood bullets and use those to practice the gun parry on Gerhman for his moveset. Once you can reliably parry his moves with your blood bullets you'll be ready to take him on.

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#57 Posted by Shindig (4912 posts) -

Amelia's giving me proper grief. Fire paper's good for getting her health down and, by extension keeping the fight shorter so I don't pop through my vials but... I wish there was an easier way. Ludwig +5. I'd be tempted to give Hemlock a shot if I knew where the boss in that area was. I've unlocked the second shortcut so shouldn't be too far away from it but there must be something I'm missing.

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#58 Posted by Takoyaki (314 posts) -

@shindig: Follow the left hand wall after you go through the gate that you had to raise and you should end up at the Hemwick boss. It's inside the house at the top of the path.

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#59 Posted by Unholymike123 (40 posts) -
Loading Video...

The True Final Boss...

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#60 Posted by Shindig (4912 posts) -

Wow, those witches seem doable. Probably would've done it if I had more vials on hand.

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#61 Edited by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

A bit of an old thread but I figured it was best to post here rather than make a new thread.

So I'm having a tough time seeing how this game could be considered anything close to goty. For context my next required boss fight is Rom (I think) though I'm currently fighting logarius. Haven't had that much difficulty yet in the game, most bosses went down in 2-3 tries.

The reason I'm having a tough time seeing this as goty? The sheer number of questionably design decisions. A few off the top of my head:

1) No lamps outside of boss fight areas. You have to run back to a boss, usually through enemies and in some places its actually outright impossible to not take damage (the run back to logarius is a good example when you have to jump off a spire onto the walkway before you take the ladder up to him).

2) The camera. It's usually not that bad but generally its ugly side comes out in boss fights. A good example of when it really likes to fuck you is when logarius does his "air strike" in the second phase of the fight. Having him jump straight up in the area and your camera completely losing him is groan inducing. Almost always results in him a smashing you with ~50% of your HP.

3) Clipping and hit detection. It's embarrassing and I'm shocked that a dev team could put out a game this broken in good conscience. I'll stick with logarius as an example also. Beyind the usual eyerollin hits through the spires, I've actually had him plant his sword in phase 2...IN a spire. Yes you read that right. Thinking I could just hit it through the spires I ran up to it and swung away. Nope.

It's a strange game overall. It has a satisfying combat system, a great atmosphere etc. But Christ so much else of it is downright bad. It's difficult to believe how so many people either overlooked or downplayed these problems. Then again the bloodborne/souls fanbase has this habit of writing off all criticism with "git gud".

In summary: lots of fun, I'll finish it, but broken in so many fundamental ways it's mind boggling. It's a good game. It just isn't a great one./

EDIT: I apologize for any typos. Writing on your phone is not fun.

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#62 Edited by xymox (2432 posts) -

@wetracoon said:

No lamps outside of boss fight areas

Unfortunately I think you'll have very little support from the (at times rabid) Souls community when you say you want a lamp outside fog gates (lamps are for babies) but I agree with you completely.

The run-back was charming back when Dark Souls came out. It was an unforgiving death penalty in a time where it felt like games moved towards holding your hand every step of the way. A nod to old school game design. But in Dark Souls it felt fair because with death you’d learn new things, you'd get better using your weapon, maybe try new paths or ways to get through an area. There was really nothing like it to compare it to (I completely missed out on Demon's Souls but if that was my first I'd probably feel the same way).

Dark Souls 2 improved on it by adding a layer of micro-progression where, if you go through the same area over and over again, enemies were permanently removed from the game. It helped discourage grinding and was a "souls-like solution" to helping players who struggle with the game.

For Bloodborne they decided to go back to the original design and I'm so done with it. It adds nothing to the game. While it does force you to "focus on the now" rather than "where you want to be" (fighting the boss again) and I can see the argument that it should make you better as a player, now it just feels dated. I learn nothing from the run-back in Bloodborne. I don’t feel like I’m getting better as a player and maybe that’s mostly my fault because instead of fighting I just run straight through an area to get to the boss/lever/item/whatever. The enemies don’t even seem to punish that behavior.

If adding a lamp is too much "baby souls", at the very least add dynamic enemy spawns or something. I’ve burned myself out on the souls formula. Every enemy is in the same spot every single time. The run-back is super uninteresting to me at this point. It feels like tedious busy-work and game length padding.

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#63 Posted by frequent838 (35 posts) -

@xymox said:
@wetracoon said:

No lamps outside of boss fight areas

Unfortunately I think you'll have very little support from the (at times rabid) Souls community when you say you want a lamp outside fog gates (lamps are for babies) but I agree with you completely.

The run-back was charming back when Dark Souls came out. It was an unforgiving death penalty in a time where it felt like games moved towards holding your hand every step of the way. A nod to old school game design. But in Dark Souls it felt fair because with death you’d learn new things, you'd get better using your weapon, maybe try new paths or ways to get through an area. There was really nothing like it to compare it to (I completely missed out on Demon's Souls but if that was my first I'd probably feel the same way).

Dark Souls 2 improved on it by adding a layer of micro-progression where, if you go through the same area over and over again, enemies were permanently removed from the game. It helped discourage grinding and was a "souls-like solution" to helping players who struggle with the game.

For Bloodborne they decided to go back to the original design and I'm so done with it. It adds nothing to the game. While it does force you to "focus on the now" rather than "where you want to be" (fighting the boss again) and I can see the argument that it should make you better as a player, now it just feels dated. I learn nothing from dying in Bloodborne. I don’t feel like I’m getting better as a player and maybe that’s mostly my fault because instead of fighting I just run straight through an area to get to the boss/lever/item/whatever. The enemies don’t even seem to punish that behavior.

If adding a lamp is too much "baby souls", at the very least add dynamic enemy spawns or something. I’ve burned myself out on the souls formula. Every enemy is in the same spot every single time. The run-back is super uninteresting to me at this point. It feels like tedious busy-work and game length padding.

...Except that there are plenty of lamps and shortcuts to boss arenas in Bloodborne and especially in the new Old Hunters DLC. If anything, boss runs are a lot less frustrating with the increased invincibility frames and speed. Dark Souls was much more frustrating and unfair with its ridiculous boss runs, such the Four Kings and Ornstein and Smough. In fact, O&S is practically impossible to get to without fighting the silver knights. As a lot of things, rose tinted glasses make people blame BB for things Dark Souls was a much bigger offender for, which is stil an unfinished overrated piece of shit game.

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#64 Posted by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

@xymox: I agree that the big issue is that the boss runs add nothing to the game. I'd get it if there was a good reason for them to be there. But there isn't. All they do is add a layer of frustration to the process.

@frequent838: I'm not a previous Souls fan so keep in mind I'm speaking entirely from a "is this good game design?" perspective. I agree that for a good part the game hasn't been that bad about running back to a boss to fight him. However, it still doesn't really matter because ultimately the process of running back doesn't add anything of value to the game. It doesn't make it better for it. In fact it makes it worse for it. That's kind of what I was getting at with that point. Ultimately I know I'll end up playing through on NG+ again and will end up getting annoyed, but hey like I said, it's still a good game...I just can't in good conscience say it's the best game this year though.

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#65 Posted by thomasnash (1106 posts) -

@xymox said:
@wetracoon said:

No lamps outside of boss fight areas

Unfortunately I think you'll have very little support from the (at times rabid) Souls community when you say you want a lamp outside fog gates (lamps are for babies) but I agree with you completely.

The run-back was charming back when Dark Souls came out. It was an unforgiving death penalty in a time where it felt like games moved towards holding your hand every step of the way. A nod to old school game design. But in Dark Souls it felt fair because with death you’d learn new things, you'd get better using your weapon, maybe try new paths or ways to get through an area. There was really nothing like it to compare it to (I completely missed out on Demon's Souls but if that was my first I'd probably feel the same way).

Dark Souls 2 improved on it by adding a layer of micro-progression where, if you go through the same area over and over again, enemies were permanently removed from the game. It helped discourage grinding and was a "souls-like solution" to helping players who struggle with the game.

For Bloodborne they decided to go back to the original design and I'm so done with it. It adds nothing to the game. While it does force you to "focus on the now" rather than "where you want to be" (fighting the boss again) and I can see the argument that it should make you better as a player, now it just feels dated. I learn nothing from dying in Bloodborne. I don’t feel like I’m getting better as a player and maybe that’s mostly my fault because instead of fighting I just run straight through an area to get to the boss/lever/item/whatever. The enemies don’t even seem to punish that behavior.

If adding a lamp is too much "baby souls", at the very least add dynamic enemy spawns or something. I’ve burned myself out on the souls formula. Every enemy is in the same spot every single time. The run-back is super uninteresting to me at this point. It feels like tedious busy-work and game length padding.

...Except that there are plenty of lamps and shortcuts to boss arenas in Bloodborne and especially in the new Old Hunters DLC. If anything, boss runs are a lot less frustrating with the increased invincibility frames and speed. Dark Souls was much more frustrating and unfair with its ridiculous boss runs, such the Four Kings and Ornstein and Smough. In fact, O&S is practically impossible to get to without fighting the silver knights. As a lot of things, rose tinted glasses make people blame BB for things Dark Souls was a much bigger offender for, which is stil an unfinished overrated piece of shit game.

Man, I remember my mind being completely blown the first time I saw a summoned dude skip most of the Four Kings boss run by dropping down instead of using the elevator.

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#66 Edited by Honkalot (1040 posts) -

I'm all for shortcuts circumventing enemies and stuff leading to boss arenas. Putting lamps outside feels a little too game-y to me.

But yeah the Logarius one was probably the worst in BB, it's quite a long way to run and while the platforming isn't hard it's surely possible to fall off unless you're paying attention. In distance maybe Shadows of Yharnam and the Witches are worse? But with those you can just go.

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#67 Edited by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

@honkalot: I feel like running past enemies over and over from a lamp that's further away is no more gamey haha.

Also maybe I'm missing something, but I unavoidably take damage every time I run to him because of a tower/spire you have to jump off of onto the walkway that leads to the ladder going up to him. Am I doing something wrong here?

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#68 Edited by betterley (220 posts) -

@wetracoon:

The Logarius run is one of the worst in the game, but he is an optional boss too. The drop down isn't what bothers me, it's the screaming ghosts and the guy hitting you with darts as you go up the ladder-- AHHH!

I think they get pretty generous with the lamps as the game progresses though, especially in the DLC and Chalice Dungeons.

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#69 Posted by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

@betterley: I've done the run so many times now that I can manage to get through that room without taking any damage.

Sprinting down the centre of the room, I juke left and right repeatedly to avoid any darts (which means the ghosts don't go into rage mode). I run up to the guy shooting the darts, charge attack -> falls onto the ground -> falling attack. I then dodge the ghost immediately in front and head up the ladder.

Works 90% of the time. The 10% of the time where I he somehow tags me with a snapshot-eque dart halo style...rage inducing.

See even though the fight is optional, it's become about principle for me. At no point does the game communicate that this boss is optional. Hell the entire game is non-communicative (and I get that's part of the charm) but I'm too far committed now to beating logarius into a bloodly pulp before leaving.

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#70 Posted by betterley (220 posts) -

@wetracoon:

As much as I like the Souls series, I agree that the games are too ambiguous.
I understand some people really like that aspect of it, but it's the biggest turn-off for me.

Imagine a Souls game with retro MGS cinematic story-telling, or a CDPKR narrative. That'd be amazing.

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#71 Posted by Quid_Pro_Bono (1130 posts) -

@wetracoon: It doesn't communicate to you that the boss is optional, but you are in no means forced to go to Cainhurst or even nudged in that direction. It's a pretty well hidden area. It's also completely separated from the rest of the game, and Logarius is a lot harder than any other boss at that point. I can't really think of a way they could better communicate to you the boss is optional.

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#72 Posted by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

@quid_pro_bono: Admittedly I agree that to some extent this was just me somehow stumbling across the summons when I went off exploring in the forbidden woods and ended up at the back of the clinic. Went back to beat the Shadows, then went to the Charnel Lane at level 39 I believe. Stomped Charnel Lane in a single run but then as I went back down another way I hadn't explore I must have triggered the whole horse carriage cutscene. I guess a bunch of random decisions on my part made it feel like natural progression and unclear to me. Ended up at Cainhurst at level 41. Fighting this fucker logarius as a level 45 which may or may not be under-leveled. Fuck he's hard.

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#73 Posted by Quid_Pro_Bono (1130 posts) -

@wetracoon: yeah, to me that's a bit underleveled for him. He's probably the second or third hardest boss in the main game. Fairly sure Charnel is designed to be done before Amelia, which is how they try to have you do that area before you'll have the summons so you don't accidentally trigger Cainhurst. I killed Logarius right after clearing out the Upper Cathedral Ward.

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#74 Posted by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

@quid_pro_bono: Uhhh...ok so I guess I'm a bit off kilter. I killed Amelia first, then the shadows of yarnham, then the witch of hemlock and now I'm on logarius. Respective levels were like 25, 35, 39 and now 45. :\

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#75 Posted by Quid_Pro_Bono (1130 posts) -

@wetracoon: The nice thing about this game is that you can run around and do stuff in different orders. Basically, if something is too hard, go do something else and come back when you're stronger. Or you could also help other people on Logarius to grind some levels and then kill him yourself.

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#76 Posted by Stokes (269 posts) -

Playing the DLC at essentially maxed level is not very fun. There is no progression or way to make anything easier, so it just comes down to executing perfectly. I'm not enjoying it very much, which is a bummer because I really loved Bloodborne.

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#77 Posted by GoGreenRanger (30 posts) -

Laurence, the first vicar. Fuck that guy. I beat him eventually but easily the most annoying boss in bloodborne imo.

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#78 Posted by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

Oh man, so I felt the need to update.

This game is so weird.

So I beat Logarius at lvl 49. Went onto Byrgenworth and totally stomped Rom. What. I thought he was supposed to be difficult?

And now I just found out I missed the whole Eileen the crow stuff and won't be able to get one of the weapons in the game...

This game is so fucked.

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#79 Posted by Rorie (5741 posts) -

@wetracoon: Heck, I clicked through the popup stuff from the items you get after beating Vicar Amelia a little too quickly and now I have no idea how to get to the DLC area. I'm not complaining; it's just hilarious that it's so easy to miss some of the most core parts of this game. I can easily google the info if I want to but it's almost more fun to kind of wander around and find out stuff on your own.

Looking forward to getting through the game and going back through it with a walkthrough to see the "best" way to get through it.

Staff
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#80 Posted by golguin (5469 posts) -

@rorie said:

@wetracoon: Heck, I clicked through the popup stuff from the items you get after beating Vicar Amelia a little too quickly and now I have no idea how to get to the DLC area. I'm not complaining; it's just hilarious that it's so easy to miss some of the most core parts of this game. I can easily google the info if I want to but it's almost more fun to kind of wander around and find out stuff on your own.

Looking forward to getting through the game and going back through it with a walkthrough to see the "best" way to get through it.

No spoilers, but you can eventually stumble into the DLC. As of this posting I imagine the world in the game has already made you aware of it :).

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#81 Posted by Shindig (4912 posts) -

My second time around's a lot more focused and so different to my first run. 9 hours in and have just beaten Amelia after a handful of tries. She was such a huge roadblock for me the first time. I turned around after the fight and saw this.

Loading Video...

Go get 'er, guys and girls.

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#82 Posted by WetRacoon (80 posts) -

@rorie: Yeah I think the part that's just a bit maddening for me is that there's absolutely on way for me to get the Blades of Mercy now. Like I've literally lost out on the ability to get that weapon and there's nothing I can do about it. Guess I'll be leveling up my Stake Driver...

Good game though.

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#83 Posted by darkvare (1027 posts) -
Loading Video...

i kinda wanna vent but not cause bosses are hard but because they are way too easy i just got to martyr whatever dude and killed him first try on my first playthrough :/

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#84 Edited by mordukai (8516 posts) -

@darkvare: Logarius. Just wait until you get to the other "L's" *cough* Ludwig *cough*

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#85 Edited by thetenthdoctor (321 posts) -

I’m sorry, it’s not fun.

I’ve played about 10 hours, and finally felt like it was clicking when I beat blood starved beast on the 3rd try. Then I went back to the Cathedral, and keep getting destroyed by a ball and chain wielding asshole whose attacks have a range so huge you can’t roll out of the way or stun him with the gun.

Wasting hours playing the same 5 minutes of gameplay isn’t fun.

Losing all your blood echoes because an enemy you’ve beaten 100 times suddenly starts vaccum locking onto you and magically twisting to hit you even though you rolled past their attack isn’t fun.

As an adult with kids and a full time job, I only have so much time to dedicate to gaming. In the time it took me to beat a few bosses, I could have finished Journey and Rime again, plus played through a good chunk of Witcher 3. This shit is not fun at all. It’s a game for masochists who relish memorizing patterns and enemy locations and get off on bragging that they’re willing to devote way too much time to farming echoes and learning these routines to advance.

I bought this once and traded it in. Now I downloaded it for free on PS+ and still hate it. Fuck this game and everything about it, because it has no semblance of fun and makes me want to quit games forever. You all can keep this miserable pile of shit all for yourselves, and enjoy telling me to “git gud”. While you’re doing that, I’ll be playing something that actually respects my time and money and provides me with entertainment.

Hey, you said it was a venting thread. So there’s my venting. :)

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#86 Posted by Busto1299 (251 posts) -
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#87 Posted by TobbRobb (6582 posts) -

@thetenthdoctor: Hey now, no need to resort to name-calling. A lot of us enjoy the game without masochism or bragging rights coming into play!

Also git gud I hope you have fun with whatever you are up to next. ~

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#88 Edited by thetenthdoctor (321 posts) -
Avatar image for shindig
#89 Posted by Shindig (4912 posts) -

Upgrade your weapon then upgrade your mind. I dunno. My first runs are always agony. Took me 48 hours to beat it.

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#90 Edited by Seikenfreak (1522 posts) -

Yes, it sounds like fresh meat has entered the Souls arena. It feeds on your misery, only getting stronger because of it. I mean that as a joke and it's actually true. You could probably dig back in the forums and find me stressing about it just as hard.

Ahhh these games are great. They have all taken me roughly 50-100 hours to beat which is about as much as any other RPG that manages to hold my interest. They are very engaging and thus have been in my Top 1 or 2 position for GOTY every year one comes out.

Avatar image for busto1299
#91 Posted by Busto1299 (251 posts) -

In all seriousness though, these games are not for everyone. I love them, but a time consuming process of trial and error can be a huge bane to some. I am at a point in my life as a student with lots of time, so im lucky to experience these games

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#92 Posted by inevpatoria (7436 posts) -

Fighting Ludwig for the first time and my opinion is: Fuck Ludwig.

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#93 Posted by FrostyRyan (2920 posts) -

@inevpatoria: God I love that fight. Fuck that fight though. But I love it.

Second phase is mesmerizing.

Avatar image for devise22
#94 Posted by devise22 (730 posts) -

Decided to return to this for a feature on my channel, finally beat Vicar. I know she probably isn't "the hardest" fight, but man. It took me forever before I realized that her one AoE attack doesn't home until after she hits the ground with it. So I kept perfect timing dodges to avoid the fist and being baffled how somehow some effect of the AoE would knock me down.

I'm sure I'll have tons more to vent about as I make my way through.

Avatar image for inevpatoria
#95 Posted by inevpatoria (7436 posts) -

@inevpatoria: God I love that fight. Fuck that fight though. But I love it.

Second phase is mesmerizing.

It's super good.

But, fuuuuuuuuuuck. Hahaha.

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