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    A new franchise from EA

    EA's new Girlie franchise. Are girls really this stupid?

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    oldschool

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    #1  Edited By oldschool
    EA's New Girlie Franchise
    (inc gamers)

    Electronic Arts Casual Studios has announced their new girlie game franchise Charm Girls Club for E3.

    No Caption Provided
    The games will be released for Wii and DS on four different titles, where players can collect virtual charms by completing challenges that are "sassy, fun, and relevant to their world." Challenges will take place everywhere from pajama parties to the mall.

    "Charm Girls Club celebrates everything that's fun about being a girl," said Sarah Handley, of EA Play Label. "Girls are gamers too and EA wants to provide them with games that are fun, fabulous and appeal to their interests."

    No Caption Provided
    "Charm Girls" will guide players through the game, and be their connection to the game world. Players start with customising their own Charm Girl character, representing themselves. There are "thousands of trendy and stylish combinations."

    In the Wii Charm Girls Club: Pajama Party, up to eight players can play for the "ultimate interactive slumber party experience." Over 30 games like Bed Bounce, Pillow Fight, Speed Hair Teasing and many more use the Wii motion-sensing technology for casual gameplay style.

    No Caption Provided
    There are several titles planned for release on the DS. Charm Girls Club: My Dance Party focuses on selecting dresses and "zany activities" before the party. Charm Girls Club: My Fashion Show has a similar theme, and Charm Girls Club: My Fashion Mall is about a day at the mall tackling "wacky mall mishaps everywhere from the food court to the accessories boutique."






    It isn't as if this market is already crowded as it is.

    Is the stereotype of the girl this real.  Is this art imitating life or has it becme life imitating art?  I tend to be a little annoyed at these types of media as they are such lowest common demoninator and I wonder if they are bought mainly because lazy parents just assume that is what a little girl would want.  Most of us accept that as children, girls are generally smarter than boys and there abilities to comprehend are superior.  So why are girls games so dumb?  Why do they sell?

    I never had these games for my duaghters and they never asked for them.  So that leads me back to my theory that it is lazy parents driving this genre.  What do you think or what is your experience with sisters or firends.
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    Venatio

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    #2  Edited By Venatio

    I personally think that all of this looks like insulting bullshit towards everybody

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    Venatio

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    #3  Edited By Venatio

    I personally think that all of this looks like insulting bullshit towards everybody

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    oldschool

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    #4  Edited By oldschool
    @Venatio said:
    " I personally think that all of this looks like insulting bullshit towards everybody "
    Agreed.   

    If I were a game developer, I would be ashamed at how low my life had sunk if this was as good as it gets for me.  I know we have a varied market that should be catered for, but this middle ground, after girls have passed the stage of Wiggles , Sesame Street and Dora is just a downhill slide.  What values does it show?  Poor to none in my opinion.
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    Icil

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    #5  Edited By Icil
    @oldschool said:

    EA's new Girlie franchise. Are girls really this stupid?

    Pretty inflammatory, man. Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust shows that this question goes both ways.

    Edit: As for the topic of gender-pandering and such, I think that the fact that dumb people make the majority brings about the main driving force for anything entertainment-related. Combine this with the fact that 'casual' (games for 'everyone') is synonymous with 'less complicated' and it ends up painting the masses with a slightly dumber brush than we, as smarter members of the community, have to suffer through.
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    RedSox8933

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    #6  Edited By RedSox8933

    No, EA just thinks that girls are this stupid.

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    erinfizz

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    #7  Edited By erinfizz

    I never know what to say about this stuff. I am a female...but have never been a girly girl. Neither were my friends when I was a kid. We played point and click adventure games and Sim City. Games for girls still somehow make me really angry...reinforcing stupid stereotypes and having everything be pink makes my skin crawl.

    I think lazy is a big part of it. I certainly never requested jewelry or skirts or sparkly hair doo-dads as a kid, but I received them plenty from family and friends that didn't know me all that well. I'm sure there is a lot of "Oh, Susie has one of those Nintendo things...and she likes doing her hair...and look here's a game about it!" kind of decisions that get made, with zero regard for what the actual game is like, or Susie for that matter.

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    Happy

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    #8  Edited By Happy

    Few of my cousins and nieces eat all this Bratz type stuff up. But they are all under 12.

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    JackiJinx

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    #9  Edited By JackiJinx

    At a young age, girls are typically trained to be the sensitive and caring, and Barbie is an excellent example of that training. Barbie is extraordinary simple, being that all you need to do is change her clothes and move her body. It places girls in adult roles, giving girls the opportunity to experience what it's like to be a mature adult to a limited extent. These games are ways to cash in on that same need.

    That said, guys have the same sort of training with GI Joe, TMNTs, and NASCAR toys. Smash dudes, be heroes, save the day. Now fellas, tell me how many games there are that are either related to war, super heroes, or racing? Pretty much all of them. The reason these games aren't crap is because they've been in development for not only a much longer time, but with a more thought put into them. Why have the games geared towards girls never gotten such attention? Because it was never deemed to be a high demand area, and thus ignored.

    Games geared towards girls are becoming much higher in demand, and as time goes on, the quality will more likely than not as well. It's hard to believe, but bad gamesaren't exclusiveto the femaledepartment. People will eventually realize that they're not of quality, demand better games, and get them if sales represent a need for change.

    For the record, I played with Barbies, TMNTs, Secret of Mana, and Tetris.

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    oldschool

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    #11  Edited By oldschool
    @erinfizz said:
    " I never know what to say about this stuff. I am a female...but have never been a girly girl. Neither were my friends when I was a kid. We played point and click adventure games and Sim City. Games for girls still somehow make me really angry...reinforcing stupid stereotypes and having everything be pink makes my skin crawl. I think lazy is a big part of it. I certainly never requested jewelry or skirts or sparkly hair doo-dads as a kid, but I received them plenty from family and friends that didn't know me all that well. I'm sure there is a lot of "Oh, Susie has one of those Nintendo things...and she likes doing her hair...and look here's a game about it!" kind of decisions that get made, with zero regard for what the actual game is like, or Susie for that matter. "
    It is because I am a father of girls and I don't want them to accept this dumbing down as normal, that the subject matter means more to me.  I remember a friend, a very close friend, who decided that my elsest (at 4) needed more pink and so therefore, Barbie as a birthday present.  We were a Barbie free zone, but that isn't to say were also free of things that are cute and fun.

    Anyway, Ripley opened the present to see a Barbie.  She exclaimed, "ewwwwww, Barbie!", dropped it on the ground and went off to do something else.  Rather than feel embarrassed, or scold Ripley for being rude, I looked straight at my friend and asked. "well, what did you expect?  Did you think you could backdoor us on Barbie?"

    Ripley now, at 16 wants to play Bioshock and Harvest Moon.  That is balance and that is taste imo.  She is a girl and I have never tried to make her anything else, but I also haven't limited her vision of what she can do.  Her artwork shows her femeinine side, but it doesn't define her [from a blog I did on her work - yeah, I like to boast about her  :-)  ]:

    No Caption Provided
    No Caption Provided










    I agree that they are simply going with the stereotype.  It is a cash cow, and many parents, aunts, grandmothers and friends just fall into it.  They are also the most likely games to be advertised in store catalogues in my country.
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    oldschool

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    #13  Edited By oldschool
    @Ossi said:
    " Those drawings are amazing every time I see them oldschool. "
    Yeah, I never tire of her growing skills.  Thank you.  I must get her to put some lore up.  We just bought her a new and improved drawing tablet.
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    oldschool

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    #14  Edited By oldschool

    This update from E3:

    Charm Girl Club Press Conference Impressions
    (gamespot)
    It seemed like Electronic Arts was eager to get the games for girls out early so that they could finish their press conference with games that had less estrogen. EA announced a new game franchise today called the Charm Girls Club, and already has in the pipeline four games that are set to be released this fall. Charm Girls Club Pajama Party is for the Nintendo Wii, and Charm Girls Club My Perfect Prom, My Fashion Mall, and My Fashion Show are for the Nintendo DS. All are sparkly and incredibly girly.

    Doesn't sound like they are exactly proud of their product  :-)

    This bit just sounds creepy:
    Dyan Williams, a senior producer at the EA Play Label, came out with four young girls in tow to demonstrate one of the minigames.

    Paedo alert!

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    Matfei90

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    #15  Edited By Matfei90

    Your daughter is a wonderful artist. Keep praising and cultivating that skill of hers, mate.

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    Meowayne

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    #16  Edited By Meowayne

    Yeah, I've said it before, I will say it now: These games differ from Gears of War and Call of Duty only in their production value. There's nothing more pathetic at how this is geared toward stereotypical young girls as the whole badass-game-machinery is geared toward adolescent males.

    You cannot laugh about "My Fashion Mall" and then cheer about "Crackdown 2". It's the same pathetic crap, the same emberrassing marketing, but the respective target groups will both have ridiculous  amounts of fun with it.


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    ahoodedfigure

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    #17  Edited By ahoodedfigure

    Yeah, this is too much.  It's a bit strange to see all of these things sort of piled on to each other as if it's trying to hit as big a demographic as possible.

    I don't think anyone really knows what "girls" want because girls are human beings first, and therefore have a wide variety of interests just like boys do.  They tend to be pushed in one direction by parents who have grown out of this stage, who often were pressured when THEY were young to go in a certain direction and are now repeating that behavior on their kids, and who respond to social pressure to make their kid "grow up right" from society's own stereotypes and from the distilled reactions of their peers.

    The girly girls would probably already be doing things like these in-person with actual people and would have no use for a video game version of this.  Wouldn't this feel a bit hollow?  Why not have generalized social interaction and let the kids determine what kind of things they actually do during these gatherings, instead of limiting interaction to pillow fights :P

    Still, I'm not so sure that people who do genuine research necessarily get things right, either.  I think the problem is when you segment the population you automatically skew the results, because then you're forced to look for majority opinions, which tend to be watered down and don't inspire innovative thinking.

    There are two TED conferences that come to mind when I'm typing about this.  The first is a talk by Brenda Laurel, who started up a company that had to do with specific targeting of girls in the 90's, and produced some interesting results that don't conform to the stereotypes you see above, OR the stereotypes that a lot of people seem to push on young women now as the supposedly proper things to learn:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/brenda_laurel_on_making_games_for_girls.html

    The second has more to do with marketing foodstuffs to consumers, but hits upon a point that I think is relevant to producing targeted games: that there is no one right product, but instead there are many right products which serve many different needs and desires.  Assuming you are going to pick the single right thing that will win the hearts and dollars of the consumer public is a recipe for disaster:

    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html

    Another thing that bugs me about these topics is that every time that we bring up how girls are better and more varied than what these marketers have assumed, we instantly come down on boys.  This is infuriating, as it serves no constructive purpose.  Think about boys going through the exact same thing, being given things that are sex appropriate and being pressured into thinking this is the "boy's" way of doing things, or being told that because they like the occasional violent game that they are being the typical, destructive boy and are incapable of any sort of growth.  Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that sex stereotyping only affects half of the population.

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    Red

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    #18  Edited By Red

    I think that all children from age 7-10 should just have an age warp to some point in their lives when they won't buy all the garbage with "Fashion" or "Ben 10" on it.

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    Meowayne

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    #19  Edited By Meowayne

    I think that all boys from 13-25 should just have a maturity warp to some point in their lives when they won't blindly buy all the garbage that consists of explosions and shooting things in fancy graphics.

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    Endogene

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    #20  Edited By Endogene
    @Meowayne said:
    " I think that all boys from 13-25 should just have a maturity warp to some point in their lives when they won't blindly buy all the garbage that consists of explosions and shooting things in fancy graphics. "
    But the graphizx...

    Anyway the whole presentation was pretty garbage, this game will appeal to girls but way younger girls then those who where on stage.

    Although i have to say that Ubisoft is doing some rather new and interesting things, the take a picture of yourself which turns into a cartoon is quite impressive and the create your own necklace and get it send to you is pretty cool. The toys that come with codes for that kid friendly "MMO" also are a neat idea, done before though (Don't worry Funky town is loading) but still a neat idea.

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    oldschool

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    #21  Edited By oldschool
    @ahoodedfigure said:
    " Yeah, this is too much.  It's a bit strange to see all of these things sort of piled on to each other as if it's trying to hit as big a demographic as possible.

    I don't think anyone really knows what "girls" want because girls are human beings first, and therefore have a wide variety of interests just like boys do.  They tend to be pushed in one direction by parents who have grown out of this stage, who often were pressured when THEY were young to go in a certain direction and are now repeating that behavior on their kids, and who respond to social pressure to make their kid "grow up right" from society's own stereotypes and from the distilled reactions of their peers.

    The girly girls would probably already be doing things like these in-person with actual people and would have no use for a video game version of this.  Wouldn't this feel a bit hollow?  Why not have generalized social interaction and let the kids determine what kind of things they actually do during these gatherings, instead of limiting interaction to pillow fights :P

    Still, I'm not so sure that people who do genuine research necessarily get things right, either.  I think the problem is when you segment the population you automatically skew the results, because then you're forced to look for majority opinions, which tend to be watered down and don't inspire innovative thinking.

    There are two TED conferences that come to mind when I'm typing about this.  The first is a talk by Brenda Laurel, who started up a company that had to do with specific targeting of girls in the 90's, and produced some interesting results that don't conform to the stereotypes you see above, OR the stereotypes that a lot of people seem to push on young women now as the supposedly proper things to learn:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/brenda_laurel_on_making_games_for_girls.html

    The second has more to do with marketing foodstuffs to consumers, but hits upon a point that I think is relevant to producing targeted games: that there is no one right product, but instead there are many right products which serve many different needs and desires.  Assuming you are going to pick the single right thing that will win the hearts and dollars of the consumer public is a recipe for disaster:

    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.htmlAnother thing that bugs me about these topics is that every time that we bring up how girls are better and more varied than what these marketers have assumed, we instantly come down on boys.  This is infuriating, as it serves no constructive purpose.  Think about boys going through the exact same thing, being given things that are sex appropriate and being pressured into thinking this is the "boy's" way of doing things, or being told that because they like the occasional violent game that they are being the typical, destructive boy and are incapable of any sort of growth.  Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that sex stereotyping only affects half of the population. "
    The shotgun effect is in place and I understand its application in marketing product.  To get the attention of the biggest market as possible, you have to tick as many boxes as possible.  It is in fact the reason I failed to use my education in Marketing for my life.  I found my soul and I didn't want to sell it back.

    It is very true that many boys have the same issues as girls, but what happens to girls seems all the more blatant and in my opinion, worse.  What makes it worse it the sexualisation aspect of it.  It laces everything you see marketed at young girls now and these type of games, especially on the DS are amongst the bad end of the spectrum.

    I don't do sport and to be honest, I wanted 2 girls and was very content that I didn't have boys.  I like art, music, science, history and politics.  I know there was every chance I would have a boy that would share my disinterest in sport, but there was also every risk that I would spend all my spare time at the hockey or netball courts.  Luckily for me, neither daughter has an interest in sport.  Thing is, like a good father, I would have supported any interest my children had irrespective of my own tatses.

    I do see many boys being effectively coerced into masculine endeavours by their fathers (and mothers as well at times) and I feel for those kids.  They are living the life chosen and directed by others.  I grew up labelled as the boy most likely to be gay.  In the 1960s, that  wasn't easy.  I know the pressures of conforming.  I chose stage acting as a teenager and starred once as Peter Pan - it didn't help the perception, but I didn't care.  These kind of experiences made me the person I am and it is why I tend to get a little miffed at stereotyping and conformist pressure.  Again, as a father of girls, my interest largely sits with what I live.  My youngest dresses like an undertaker, plays Persona, writes poetry about suicide and is facinated by all things dark and eerie.  I do get get unwanted advice about why I should "redirect" her.  She is fine, she is happy and she is who she is.  If I was to advice them that their daughters were likely to be sexually active before their time, by the way they let them dress and behave, then they would be insulted and angry at me - yet they feel fine advising me with unwanted and incorrect advice.  I will only support her not control her.  I think she could be a good artist of some type one day and I will feed her choices.  Games like this are not on her agenda.  

    Sorry for my personal ramblings  :-)
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    oldschool

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    #22  Edited By oldschool
    @Endogene said:
    "
    @Meowayne said:
    " I think that all boys from 13-25 should just have a maturity warp to some point in their lives when they won't blindly buy all the garbage that consists of explosions and shooting things in fancy graphics. "
    But the graphizx...Anyway the whole presentation was pretty garbage, this game will appeal to girls but way younger girls then those who where on stage. Although i have to say that Ubisoft is doing some rather new and interesting things, the take a picture of yourself which turns into a cartoon is quite impressive and the create your own necklace and get it send to you is pretty cool. The toys that come with codes for that kid friendly "MMO" also are a neat idea, done before though (Don't worry Funky town is loading) but still a neat idea. "
    Let us just hope that they employ some of these 'better' ideas into some worthwhile games.  Ubisoft isn't one of my preferred developers these days.

    Edit - why did I say Ubisoft?  Habit?  EA have actually been getting a lot better, but like any corporation, money and suits make the choices.
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    ahoodedfigure

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    #23  Edited By ahoodedfigure
    @oldschool: You might find that "spaghetti" talk interesting then, because it explains just why that shotgun approach is likely flawed.  Seriously, go check it out when you have the time. 

    When you say this stereotyping is worse, though, what is the subsequent consequence of that worse-ness that you want to see remedied?  I see it as a branch of the overall obsession with sexes belonging to specific roles, and I've seen people get alienated in discussions like this just because they happened to be in a group that could easily be shunned just because it was depicted as not being as bad for them as it was for such and such a group.  If it's bad it's bad, is how I feel, and if it's all related, why not take a swipe at the whole tendency?

    I'm sorry that your daughter, who sounds like a creative and intelligent person, is subject to indirect coercion from those people you mention who want to redirect her.  Horrible.  I think the strange "emo" backlash is just another outgrowth of the same forced conformity that punks had to deal with in the 80's, and other so-called nonconformist subgroups have had to deal with forever.  Finding your voice is all about developing things that seem right to you. 

    Though suicidal feelings are nothing to be scoffed at, I wrote some pretty self-destructive SOUNDING things when I was young but they were all my expression of that voice and development of those feelings and my ability to cope with them.  Once my parents found a screed I'd written about myself and were instantly probing me for suicidal tendencies--  but to me it seemed so strange that they would interpret it that way, even though, if I had read someone else writing that I would have possibly come to the same conclusions.  To me it was just expression, and once it was down on paper it was dealt with, for the most part.  The trick is, like what you pointed out, making sure that the person feels loved and supported, and that they are happy in some small way with the choices they make for themselves.

    They weren't ramblings at all!  Thank you! :)
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    Meowayne

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    #24  Edited By Meowayne
    "that they employ some of these 'better' ideas into some worthwhile games"

    Why is EAs girly series not "worthwhile"? Thousands of gamers will enjoy it very much.

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    oldschool

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    #25  Edited By oldschool
    @Meowayne said:
    " "that they employ some of these 'better' ideas into some worthwhile games"

    Why is EAs girly series not "worthwhile"? Thousands of gamers will enjoy it very much.
    "
    I underatnd and kind of agree with your point.  I find myself all the time arguing that all games service a market and just because I don't like it, doesn't make it bad.  In this case though, I find myself less supportive of this particular product due to the nature of it.  Again, I repeat, I have a personal issue with them as a father of girls.  I am not about to say you could not understand that, because I know you could, but it goes against everything I brought my daughters up to be.  It is about the clothes, the jewellery, the make up, the right friends, the right everything - consumerism, the bad kind.  It is a hard position for me to push as it contradicts pretty much everything else I usually say.
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    Meowayne

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    #26  Edited By Meowayne

    I understand where you're coming from. But as I said, I don't see a difference between this and, say, Call of Duty in terms of "It's kind of sad/questionable that this is / will be so popular".

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    EpicSteve

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    #27  Edited By EpicSteve

    You don't understand that this crap sells more than your next Metal Gear will.

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    oldschool

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    #28  Edited By oldschool
    @Meowayne said:
    " I understand where you're coming from. But as I said, I don't see a difference between this and, say, Call of Duty in terms of "It's kind of sad/questionable that this is / will be so popular". "
    I can't see any of the 'boys' stuff that is quite like this though - but my vision is limited by my attitude  :-)  Yeah, for the kids I know we have firefighters and farmers et cetera, but they seem fairly innocuous to me.  I know little about FPS as I am crap at them and don't play them (plus they make me ill).  I don't have a problem with violent games though - if they are fun.

    I will just stick to games like Anno 1701  :-)  Nothing like a pleasant few hours of world exploration and domination.  xD
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    oldschool

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    #29  Edited By oldschool
    @EpicSteve said:
    " You don't understand that this crap sells more than your next Metal Gear will. "
    If that is directed at me, yes I am aware that it will sell better than many games it does not deserve to (imo of course), like Chrono Trigger or GTA: CW.  Marketing is a powerful tool.  I won't buy the next or the last MGS anyway.  MGS2 was more than enough for me.
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    EpicSteve

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    #30  Edited By EpicSteve
    @oldschool said:
    "
    @EpicSteve said:
    " You don't understand that this crap sells more than your next Metal Gear will. "
    If that is directed at me, yes I am aware that it will sell better than many games it does not deserve to (imo of course), like Chrono Trigger or GTA: CW.  Marketing is a powerful tool.  I won't buy the next or the last MGS anyway.  MGS2 was more than enough for me.
    "
    Wasen't literally talking about Metal Gear. Just an example. lol
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    #31  Edited By oldschool
    @EpicSteve said:
    "@oldschool said: 
    "@EpicSteve said: 
    " You don't understand that this crap sells more than your next Metal Gear will. "
    If that is directed at me, yes I am aware that it will sell better than many games it does not deserve to (imo of course), like Chrono Trigger or GTA: CW.  Marketing is a powerful tool.  I won't buy the next or the last MGS anyway.  MGS2 was more than enough for me.
    "
    Wasen't literally talking about Metal Gear. Just an example. lol "
    Don't sweat it, that last line was just a throwaway one - it meant nothing.  I know what you meant.
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    cdstacker

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    #32  Edited By cdstacker

    I know my cousin who is eight loves girlie games. I don't think she'll be too interested in this because it is too mini game focused but she loves games like animal crossing or those games where you build a store and organize it. She also loved Viva Pinata 2, so did I.

    There is a market for this stuff and it is not because she it stupid, she just seems to enjoy different games, I know she can't wait for sims 3 because she wants to make an adult version of herself and build it a nice house and whatnot. Why i can see that too much of this stuff leads to stereotyping it doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy of it. My cousin also loves prince of persia (she was too young to play the old trilogy but would watch her brother) and she really likes the exploring parts of tomb raider although the monsters and animals scare her.

    There is no reason why these types of games are bad as long the young child experiences other types of  role models. The way i see it, if i had a daughter i would not care if she liked stereotypical girlie stuff as long as she was intelligent and didn't see herself or anyone else as a stereotype. Rather than removing these types of games or toys we should just make sure kids experience a range of stuff, I mean the point of breaking down stereotypes is people are allowed to do what they want without social pressure and every now and then some kids will want to play house and there is nothing wrong with that.



     

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    #33  Edited By oldschool
    @cdstacker said:
    " I know my cousin who is eight loves girlie games. I don't think she'll be too interested in this because it is too mini game focused but she loves games like animal crossing or those games where you build a store and organize it. She also loved Viva Pinata 2, so did I.There is a market for this stuff and it is not because she it stupid, she just seems to enjoy different games, I know she can't wait for sims 3 because she wants to make an adult version of herself and build it a nice house and whatnot. Why i can see that too much of this stuff leads to stereotyping it doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy of it. My cousin also loves prince of persia (she was too young to play the old trilogy but would watch her brother) and she really likes the exploring parts of tomb raider although the monsters and animals scare her. There is no reason why these types of games are bad as long the young child experiences other types of  role models. The way i see it, if i had a daughter i would not care if she liked stereotypical girlie stuff as long as she was intelligent and didn't see herself or anyone else as a stereotype. Rather than removing these types of games or toys we should just make sure kids experience a range of stuff, I mean the point of breaking down stereotypes is people are allowed to do what they want without social pressure and every now and then some kids will want to play house and there is nothing wrong with that.  "
    The games you mentioned she liked are great games though and not part of the dross normally marketed at 6-10 year old girls.  I love Animal Crossing and Viva Pinata, let alone my daughters.  They are quality titles and your cousin has very good taste imo  :-)  I will also get Sims 3, not for me (I don't really care for it), but it has so many different ways to play out the character you make (I am talking Sims 2) that most people could get decent fun out of it.

    Agreed on variety of experiences - and that includes games.

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