@pyrodactyl:1. I personally liked how it was scaled to 320, and only at Oryx. Roughly 309 was being 1 level below in previous Raids. But you weren't recommended to try that content until at least 311 because all of the enemies would be red. So you'd be taking, like you said a roughly 26%-0% penalty between 311-320 that went down the higher you went in light level, and not the guaranteed 30% that 1 light gave you back in Crota's End which was unavoidable. Not sure how you see Delta Scaling without the opportunity to get rid of the damage penalty as anything but awful and lazy game design.

2. I think it's a good system. It rewards time invested over blind RNG and prevents some of the most frustrating things in this games history, think forever 29 or 319. It also gives you constant forward momentum. The only thing it prevents is someone pumping a low level character straight to high level end game within a few short activities, which I'm honestly fine with. I know a lot of us at this point want to just do one Raid, get 335 gear from it and turn off Destiny for a few months but it honestly doesn't take more than a few (15 or so) hours of smart leveling from King's Fall Hard capable character to 335. When the new DLC comes out, I have a strong feeling most of us will hit max light level with a few weeks if this system stay put compared to the 6 months to never it took for most to hit 320 in Taken King. As far as gear goes though I do hope they go back to Vault/Crota Hard drops where the Hard mode drops double Hard drops unlike King's Fall that dropped your Hard+Normal gear. Which Normal gear was just dismantled immediately and a waste.

3. Why should max level be for crazy people? Honestly I think it was insane that only 1% of the Taken King population was able to hit 320. That's stupid and Bungie should be ashamed. Max level should be the first goal of most end game players and shouldn't take them too much time, honestly 3 weeks of Raids on the current content with 3 characters should be enough to have all 3 at or near max level. If that isn't happening then Bungie is doing something wrong with their drop rates or leveling system. Outside of Taken King Destiny's End Game has always been, and should always be about not hitting max level but finding good armor and weapons that, at max level, complement your play style. I like the current meta game for end game players of trying to gear tier 12 gear with solid perks, I think that should be the goal. I've played a lot and only have tier 11 gear with great perks because all of the well perked gear I get is low stat.

4. I would agree that they both played to separate strengths. Don't get me wrong, I loved, and still do love Crota's End. But I also think it's the prime example of a rushed out the door Raid that Bungie had to make cheap design decisions because they didn't have the time to do it justice. Fixing a Raid by putting in Unkillable enemies, Delta Scaling, removing health regen, etc, are the exact things I hope Bungie never again does in a Raid. King's Fall had it's own issues design wise, mostly due to how long winded it was.

5. Gunslinger in PvE? The only place that was useful was Oracles at Atheon and outside of Raids Solar Nightfalls. Sunsingers will always be a top tier Raid subclass because of Radiance and Flame Shield, regardless of situation. Voidwalkers have been useful is specific encounters like the Abyss and Exiles favorite Legions phase of VoG. Also running Ram they are very survivable on something like a no death run using a vampire build. Sunbreakers are only useful in those same situations as Voidwalkers and can be pigeon holed into other situations because of Cauterize. Same for Stormcaller. Strikers are more or less useless in any Raid situation except trolling teammates with Shoulder Charge (very useful for that). The only 3 subclasses that have ever really had roles/utility were Bladedancer/Nightstalker/Defender. Defenders have both Blessing/Weapons which each provided different applications in many places throughout each Raid, naming them would take paragraphs. Nightstalker can create orbs for days anywhere he wants, go invisible, block hallways, escape damage, and overall just be one of the best Raiding subclasses. Then you have Bladedancer who can be spec'd several ways including a Hungering Blade vampire type build with fast twitch or the more common invisible sneak who was used to stab Crota in the back so many times. There was a lot of utility there as well. I would definitely say certain strategies people employed required certain subclasses, but those were far from the only way to do those encounters so it would be hard for me to completely agree with that sentiment, but I do understand where it is coming from since there was the possiblity of utility in VoG and Crota's End where King's Fall had the Defender/Nightstalker/Sunsinger (for DPS/res) or you are doing something wrong mentality.

@devise22: Nothing you've said is inaccurate, we will all buy Rise of Iron...

I have updated the original post with the information Bungie released over the weekend about Legacy Console information. Sorry PS3/Xbox 360 guys, you are kinda getting boned here...

Not me. I feel that the new character classes are what made The Taken King worth owning, and this isn't going to include anything like that. At 30 dollars, I can't see myself ever picking this up. I'm pretty sure I'm done with Destiny until an actual sequel, at this point.

I really hope lots of people follow your lead and send a strong message to Bungie. This ''always put out the bare minimum'' strategy of theirs is unacceptable.

I'm not going to be the one to tell them that with my wallet though since I'm dying for more destiny content right now.

@pyrodactyl: @spaceinsomniac: I think it all depends on what Destiny is to you. There are a lot of people that are only into Destiny for the Story missions, new environments, and Strikes. For those players, Rise of Iron for $30 is an awful price. But to be honest that really isn't where the $30 value of ROI is at. It comes from the new PvP mode, whatever that is, and especially the new Raid, here's hoping it's solid. I personally don't have a problem with $30 for what will come with ROI value wise, I think it's justifiable and I will get my $ worth out of it easily, but I will also play every aspect of it, and multiple times. My wish, and I desperately hope it comes true is that they further support the game, more like they did in Year 1 with smaller DLC content releases throughout the year. Because the worst thing Destiny ever did wasn't overpricing it's DLC's, it was the entire lack on any content throughout Year 2 after The Taken King. Destiny cannot bear another unsupported year like this past one. And garbage free updates/live events will never be enough to maintain the player base.

@hestilllives19: Destiny really doesn't deserve our optimism. Looking at the track record ROI will contain just barely enough stuff to make you not regret purchasing it but exactly zero exciting surprises. If they bring in custom matchs some people will lose their minds. I personally won't care. What are the new PvP modes and why should I care about those either? Rift is not that great and I'd much rather play 3s, clash or elimination if I got teammates around.

There is no new end game mode so we know 90% of the PvE content will be done after like 2 days leaving us with a raid that might be poorly designed (it will if it follows the King's Fall model) for several months if not a full year.

Destiny has a lot of major problems that weren't fixed or even acknowledged by the Taken King release. No way this half baked stop gap DLC will fix any of those

It's amazing how this game is still going strong, i guess Bungie really hit something that sticks with the core group that love this game. I maxed out my one character in vanilla(as maxed out as you can get without raids) and never went back. I was tempted with that last expansion though, but requiring me to buy the other 2 completely killed any desire for this game anymore. Glad to see they still support the game, but kinda sad they are still trying to charge more for (IMO) essentially completing the game.

@oursin_360: I think there are a few things Bungie did well that have kept Destiny going this strong, and a few others they kind of were lucky enough to be part of. Bungie created a game that feels pretty great to play. The moment to moment of Destiny has always felt great, I don't know of very many, even critics of Destiny, that would argue that point. And as long as it never loses that feel, it will be a strong contender in the FPS market when new content is available. But I don't think Bungie, even with putting such an emphasis on activities such as Raids, knew the incredible Community that would develop around the game. Destiny has one of the largest sub's on Reddit, consistently scoring in the top 5-10 on any given day. Even when no new content is up it is rarely seen outside of the top 10 on Twitch. And most of that is due to the community behind Destiny, often times in spite of Bungie and their failures at the time.

To your other point, I think with The Taken King and previous DLC and now ROI they are stuck in a weird place. People have to have access to all older DLC's, because often times it has roles in what is going on in the new DLC, this was especially true for The Taken King at least, but they also can't just give it away for free to any Rise of Iron purchasers for fear of upsetting anyone who actually paid for that content. Which is why I think they did stuff like the Taken King for $60 that came with all previous DLC for only $20 extra (a $80 savings if you had paid full price originally). I will honestly be surprised if they don't offer that same deal again, Rise of Iron Complete Edition for $50 which includes The Taken King and Rise of Iron (a $120 savings off of full price of all content). It may also be even more necessary now with the changes to PS3/360 and all of those players needing to repurchase all old content, and allowing them to purchase Rise of Iron with Taken King for only $20 extra. Sucks because they probably already own all of that content on older gen but $20 for the upgrade could be worse, they could have to purchase The Taken King itself and Rise of Iron, likely costing them $90 if they don't find a deal somewhere.

@spaceinsomniac said:

Agreed. I really loved my time with Destiny but it's hard to keep playing at this point without feeling like my life is wasting away.

I guess i just felt like i didn't get full value for the 60 i put in at launch, I guess i would say it felt like i opted into an early access game that wasn't fully featured and then was expected to spend again to get what i felt should have been there. I'm glad that it found a solid fanbase though as Vanilla definitely had the skeleton to make a great game to me, and who knows maybe when this dlc drops and they make a good deal with the others I might hop back in again one day.

@oursin_360: Destiny, if you don't plan to play raids, is not what I would call a good video game

@pyrodactyl: @oursin_360: Yeah, like Pyro said, if you don't latch onto the community aspect of Destiny, it just ends up being a pretty shallow good feeling shooter that feels like it wastes your time to an extent. I feel like that's where the disconnect is with most people that fell off after launch and people who stuck with it. Personally I've found some pretty awesome friends that I more play Destiny now to hang out with than for Destiny itself. But if you don't latch onto that community aspect, whether that be by Raiding or PvP such as Trials, it never really becomes what has fascinated the rest of us.

@hestilllives19: @pyrodactyl: Yeah, and they still never built any of that functionality into the actual game? You still have to go to the website to make your clans etc? That always seemed like a really bad design decision for a game built around community play.

@oursin_360: eh, when raids are relevant you just find a group of regulars you keep in a message thread on PSN. Playing with randoms every time isn't what you want out of destiny either

@oursin_360: I don't disagree, in game clan features is something I personally think Destiny has desperately needed since launch. That and an in game LFG system. Luckily Xbox is launching their own, maybe Sony will design something along those lines for PS4 as well after what Microsoft talked about at E3. Hopefully those were UI memory constraints (thought I don't think so) from PS3/360 and they will be added now that last gen is being dropped.

@hestilllives19: You seem to be a hardcore Destiny player as you have been very active on the Destiny forums on GB. To me, the "events" Bungie have put out have all been bad. How do you think Bungie could improve this problem of not having enough content to last a full year? I haven't played World of Warcraft, but it seems like everyone points to that game when it comes to live updates. Do you know what Blizzard does in order to keep people subscribed to WOW?

I always take a long break from Destiny and come back to get some shooting in, but I feel like it is still missing something.

I think I am done until we get an actual sequel.

@colonel_pockets: The "events" themselves from last year weren't necessarily bad. I think they were cool little things in their own right. What I think was bad, and a horrible miscalculation on Bungie and Activision's part, is thinking they could fill the gap for actual content. If those live events were just that, cool little small events, sprinkled throughout the year, I would be all on board for that. As long as we get true actual DLC content as well.

As someone who own's a small business, I like to look at thing's like Destiny from the point of view of it being a business and trying to make it profitable. So if I'm Activision and I'm trying to make my shareholders happy, I personally would have already hired 200+ developers outside of Bungie to assist in the sole purpose of creating DLC content for Destiny every year. With an average salary of $85,000, you are talking about adding $17,000,000 to the annual budget of Destiny. Now that's a lot of money, but what does that get you that isn't happening now. Those 200 developers sole purpose would be to create 3 DLC content packs every year, under the guidance of the Bungie Live Team, to put out in early December, late February, and late May (3 weeks or so before E3 every year). Bungie's own big content would still come out every September. December content would include a new PvE activity and story, but be smaller, like a $15 content pack. February would be the big DLC with a new Raid and Story for $20. May would be another small DLC focused on PvP with a Story for $15. Every DLC would rotate the Inventory of vendors, generate a new Trials season, and make adjustments to Light Level, etc (DLC's would be the size/scope of Dark Below/House of Wolves). So the goal, with right at 9 million sales on the Xbox One and PS4 is to sell 1.5 million copies at least of each DLC, which is honestly a pretty modest goal. That's an annual revenue increase of $75,000,000 to Destiny. That's not including if more than 1.5 million sales of each DLC are made and any Eververse revenue increase. Personally I think it's a business no brainer.

From a player standpoint as well, we are starved for Destiny content, and the game gets incredibly stale when it doesn't change for 12 months, at least not in any real meaningfully significant ways. This would also drastically increase our enjoyment of the product, keep player retention higher, and drives future sales of Destiny products up. So I don't understand why something like this isn't happening. Activision already has High Moon Studios working with Bungie on Destiny 2 so it's not like it's out of the realm of possibilities, and they wouldn't even have to work for another developer, just create a separate team within Bungie overseen by the current Live Team. But hey, that's just this one guy's thoughts on the matter.

@hestilllives19: @colonel_pockets: From what I understand it is mostly that the first (current) Destiny was in many ways a way to test the waters. They weren't sure what to do with it. I actually think they wanted to abandon Destiny as soon as they figured out the formula. You have to remember this is not an actual MMO. They can't put out the content of such a game and have it be good. It apparently takes them way too long to actually generate content for this version of Destiny. The tools are shit and the last generation foundation is weak.

My guess is they will take the real crack at it with Destiny 2. They'll have the system in place to they can generate and tweak content on a rapid demand. It will be built on a strong foundation as well. This, to me, feels like they are working two more weeks at the job they know is not right for them while they start their new job in three weeks that they know fits well. We've probably all been there, you tend to kind of slack off during those two weeks, but you don't want it to be that bad that you get fired and miss two weeks of pay.

Not excusing anything, just hypothesizing what they're thinking.

Game Informer came out with a lot of Rise of Iron info yesterday and I've updated the Original Post to include that info for anyone interested. Most of the Info came from Reddit but also some other sources like Planet Destiny.