Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. Beating the crap out of ten guards then finding out you could have just waltzed around them can be fucking annoying. The characters were empty shells, I called all the major developments in the story before the game got rolling, and, to be perfectly honest...but Illuminati? Really? REALLY? I'm sorry, but its been a long time since I played Deus Ex, but I have to say that in ten years, they decided to abandon all possible creative thought, and maybe either give another name, or stall, whoever the real enemies were? Sure, let's make a a few dozen brands to make the world deep and involving, but then decide that we'll just throw out one of the most hilariously stupid conspiracy theories in existence...when you're thrown into the same plot as the Da Vinci Code, you know you're plot hasn't aged well.
 
Also the game gives you an illusion of choice, but because the game is a prequel, therefore having to stick to the canon of the first game, none of the choices mean anything. Even the end choices carry sweet fuck all weight. This is because it was just a prequel, in other words, a waste of time.
 
The voice acting made Adam seem like Christian Bale in Batman, and the compressed cutscenes really show their weakness at times. Enemy AI acts up a lot, the game has major issues with glitched side missions and extra options, and any of the DLC stuff comes too late in the story to make any difference really. 
 
Oh and I really hate the fact that without certain augments, you have to run around trying to lap up every ounce of XP just to unlock the abilities to continue on. These are all questionable design choices, some of which really shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. Especially when you've done a pile of work to get into a building as easy as possible, only to be met with a computer or a drop you can't get past, because you thought 'hey, I can play this game however I want right? So I'm going to put points into whatever I want!' and missed several 'important' augments that were actually really needed. 
 
Just one more nagging issue I have...the XP earning system is utter shite. More XP for stealth and less for combat really voids the whole 'play as you want angle'. I get the logic behind it, but it makes you alter your play, thus, you aren't playing the way YOU want, more the way that the game wants. 
 
The game was marketed as revolutionary, we were told that it was going to be awesome...and yet it was above average and kind of poorly executed...it lacked the polish that would have made it a much better game.

@valrog said:

@darkwingduck said:

@valrog:  guys who just got knocked out can be woken up by their comrades, also i know its just a game, but come on! spare those poor henchmens lives .

Too bad that the guards who weren't taken care of never notice that their buddy who was there a second ago has gone missing and thus never bother to look behind the nearest crate to investigate. Besides, if I shoot them once I used a nonlethal takedown I don't lose the "Merciful Soul" bonus so I don't know why I just don't get a "Cold Bastard" bonus when I use a lethal takedown in the first place.  Don't get me wrong, I love this game but it has room for improvements.

Yeah, the game promotes, at least if you measure experience gathering efficiency, being stealthy. But then you realize, oh wait the experience difference isn't a huge deal, and then play the game whichever way you want.

 Don't get me wrong, I love this game but it has room for improvements.

  Also the game gives you an illusion of choice, but because the game is a prequel, therefore having to stick to the canon of the first game, none of the choices mean anything. Even the end choices carry sweet fuck all weight. This is because it was just a prequel, in other words, a waste of time.           

  The voice acting made Adam seem like Christian Bale in Batman, and the compressed cutscenes really show their weakness at times. Enemy AI acts up a lot, the game has major issues with glitched side missions and extra options, and any of the DLC stuff comes too late in the story to make any difference really.  

      Oh and I really hate the fact that without certain augments, you have to run around trying to lap up every ounce of XP just to unlock the abilities to continue on. These are all questionable design choices, some of which really shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. Especially when you've done a pile of work to get into a building as easy as possible, only to be met with a computer or a drop you can't get past, because you thought 'hey, I can play this game however I want right? So I'm going to put points into whatever I want!' and missed several 'important' augments that were actually really needed.   

   Just one more nagging issue I have...the XP earning system is utter shite. More XP for stealth and less for combat really voids the whole 'play as you want angle'. I get the logic behind it, but it makes you alter your play, thus, you aren't playing the way YOU want, more the way that the game wants.   The game was marketed as revolutionary, we were told that it was going to be awesome...and yet it was above average and kind of poorly executed...it lacked the polish that would have made it a much better game.

@greenygrey: I think you missed the next part of my sentence. ;)

I have played those games, yes, and I remember loving thief in-particular, but that was a long time ago and my memory sucks.

@Dookysharpgun said:

  Also the game gives you an illusion of choice, but because the game is a prequel, therefore having to stick to the canon of the first game, none of the choices mean anything. Even the end choices carry sweet fuck all weight. This is because it was just a prequel, in other words, a waste of time.           

the games major story focus is raising questions that humanity might have to face in the future, the different endings are not mainly there to serve as a starting point for the first deus ex, but rather to make the player think what HE would do. in that regard the ending of DE HR is a lot more meaningful then most game endings  

  The voice acting made Adam seem like Christian Bale in Batman, and the compressed cutscenes really show their weakness at times. Enemy AI acts up a lot, the game has major issues with glitched side missions and extra options, and any of the DLC stuff comes too late in the story to make any difference really.  

 i played the german version which had fucking sweet voice acting so i cant speak on that

      Oh and I really hate the fact that without certain augments, you have to run around trying to lap up every ounce of XP just to unlock the abilities to continue on. These are all questionable design choices, some of which really shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. Especially when you've done a pile of work to get into a building as easy as possible, only to be met with a computer or a drop you can't get past, because you thought 'hey, I can play this game however I want right? So I'm going to put points into whatever I want!' and missed several 'important' augments that were actually really needed.   

 That's just straight up wrong. you can play through the whole game without ever spending a point in augments, all you need is 1point into hacking which the game provides to you at the start of the game. the only parts of the game were you might not get access  without augs are secret areas and some minor sidequests

   Just one more nagging issue I have...the XP earning system is utter shite. More XP for stealth and less for combat really voids the whole 'play as you want angle'. I get the logic behind it, but it makes you alter your play, thus, you aren't playing the way YOU want, more the way that the game wants.   The game was marketed as revolutionary, we were told that it was going to be awesome...and yet it was above average and kind of poorly executed...it lacked the polish that would have made it a much better game.

the part about the action being rewarded less is true and unfortunate. but nobody ever marketed the game as "revolutionary" i think you are misled by the subtitle "Human Revolution" which has to be applied to the story, not the game itself.  don't get me wrong, i'll say it time and time again. the game has flaws. but people shouldn't curse this game or even say it's mediocre. it is one of the best games to have come out this year. 

@Dookysharpgun said:

@darkwingduck said:

Oh and I really hate the fact that without certain augments, you have to run around trying to lap up every ounce of XP just to unlock the abilities to continue on. These are all questionable design choices, some of which really shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. Especially when you've done a pile of work to get into a building as easy as possible, only to be met with a computer or a drop you can't get past, because you thought 'hey, I can play this game however I want right? So I'm going to put points into whatever I want!' and missed several 'important' augments that were actually really needed.

That's just straight up wrong. you can play through the whole game without ever spending a point in augments, all you need is 1point into hacking which the game provides to you at the start of the game. the only parts of the game were you might not get access without augs are secret areas and some minor sidequests

The augmentation system is the main selling point of the game. Without them, the game would be pointless, the choice options would also be made more hollow. And you would also miss out on a particularly large chunk of the game. It isn't designed to be played without augments...also, its a bit of a moot point, because you still have to spend on praxis point regardless, so what you're saying kind of contradicts itself. The point being that the types of augments you get are a choice, your choice, why should the levels be restricted to using particular levels or abilities to access hidden or extra routes/content? It seems to be a little pointless to market the game as giving a player freedom of choice, just to take it away with bad design.

He didn't contradict himself in the slightest. All he said that you do not require any specific augment to progress. Which you implied in the initial post.

It's almost impossible to miss out on any significant chunks of the game. Almost everything has multiple ways to access and get to. Only 1 side-quest in the entire game requires that you spend any points in hacking for example.

There are no restricted levels otherwise. You can simply find more or different routes depending on your choice of augments, but a possible route will exist regardless. There is no requirement to go through every hidden route, and why should some of them not be locked away depending on your choice of augments, they are after all simply alternative mans to reach your goal. If you want to use those alternative means, you can chose to get the required augment. Or choose a different way to go about your objective.

@Dookysharpgun said:

Just one more nagging issue I have...the XP earning system is utter shite. More XP for stealth and less for combat really voids the whole 'play as you want angle'. I get the logic behind it, but it makes you alter your play, thus, you aren't playing the way YOU want, more the way that the game wants. The game was marketed as revolutionary, we were told that it was going to be awesome...and yet it was above average and kind of poorly executed...it lacked the polish that would have made it a much better game.

the part about the action being rewarded less is true and unfortunate. but nobody ever marketed the game as "revolutionary" i think you are misled by the subtitle "Human Revolution" which has to be applied to the story, not the game itself. don't get me wrong, i'll say it time and time again. the game has flaws. but people shouldn't curse this game or even say it's mediocre. it is one of the best games to have come out this year.

No shit Sherlock, really? I didn't consider even for a moment, that the title had anything to do with the blatantly obvious storyline, which I figured out from minute one of the game or the fact that the game and story are supposed to be intertwined. The term revolutionary is being used because a) it's in fact a funny play on words for a title, and b) because this game was supposed to actually be original, instead of using mechanics that even call of duty had given up on. That's not to say the game isn't good, in some respects, but it still isn't worthy of the praise it is getting. Simple glitches that could be fixed easily remain unpatched, gameplay mechanics rely heavily on specific augments, and as for the story? I've said it before, and I'll say it again...Illuminati? Really? Just think how much shit that title got in the last 10 years...it should have been at least hinted at, instead of throwing it out in the middle of a cutscene, so that people like myself wouldn't cringe at a cliche...which some of the story points in this game actually are.

You misunderstand what he said once again. The story is not revolutionary it's simply about the revolution in humans as a species, due to augmentations.

The game itself nor it's story was never marketed as revolutionary, simply as a worthy successor to the original Deus Ex. In no trailers or pre release videos are the developers ever saying that they are somehow making something revolutionary to any degree, just that they are trying to do good by the original. ...and Call of Duty? really? really?

It's actually very ballsy of the developers to stick with the fiction of the original Deus Ex. Everyone is using Illuminati as a joke these days, but within the universe of Deus Ex they are a serious entity.

@Dookysharpgun said:

@Tennmuerti: If you wish to play the game as you choose, then why have specific routes only accessible through certain specific augments and upgrades. I've also heard of an individual who got through deus ex in 15 hours, skipping every portion of the game's secret areas. So yes, I did say that in my initial post, and he did in fact contradict himself. I do understand basic english, seeing as it's my first language and all. Choice is only choice if the player isn't hindered by decisions that they didn't make.

Then get the augments you want to take the routes you want to use. This choice is not taken away from you, you can choose which augments to get and what routes to take, depending on the options you have made available to yourself.

Seems very logical, to me at least.

Choice isn't choice without consequence. If there is no consequence for your choice either positive or negative then it's a meaningless choice.

@Dookysharpgun said:

In other words, if I was to choose every other augment except strength, then getting around levels would be a nightmare, as I would have to take the most dangerous routes, and even then, there might be something there to hinder me, that I can't get past, the way I want, because I don't have a certain augment.

Not true in the slightest, there are plenty of routes that don't require the strength augment. Many, many safe routes.

Once again you are making a choice to use one specific route amongst many others available to you. If you have a want to use those kinds of routes it's only logical to simply choose the strength augment next time you get a Praxis point. It's not hard.

Would you also complain that you can't persuade a character in Fallout because you don't have enough Speech? Or that your Mage can't obtain the Keep in BG2 as his place of residence? Or your rogue is not proficient enough in lock picking to open certain locks in half the wrpgs ever made? It's up to the player to make the choices required in his character's growth to enable them to do the things they want in any game of this type.

@Dookysharpgun said:

The point of the post was about the lack of new ideas being circulated in a game about THE FUCKING FUTURE where anything and everything is up for grabs.

The game isn't trying to circulate an new ideas about the future. It's a straight up cyberpunk world with a conspiracy theory. Many people have already mentioned hat it's a genre throwback.

@Dookysharpgun said:

And yes, Call of Duty....really.

That's goddamn hilarious on so many levels one could write an essay. :)

@Dookysharpgun said:

Ballsy doesn't mean shit if it turns a gamer off the already weak storyline of a game. I can stomach it in the original because it was portrayed better. In this, its mentioned in every other sentence, they harp on it, making it more of a joke. Hell, even Jensen laughs at the idea of the Illuminati existing. They're still a joke, the term is outdated, and if they wanted to be taken seriously, they could have at least introduced it in a more serious fashion, instead of a quick sum-up during a cut-scene.

The conspiracy is hinted at and addressed multiple times before Jensen's confrontation with Sarif on this issue. It's there to simply catch up players who have not yet figured it out for themselves. (you'd be surprised how many don't)

@Dookysharpgun said:

I misunderstood nothing. I'm well aware of what he's saying, and what you're saying, but both arguments stem from a clever play on words, instead of the actual content.

Quote from your initial post:

The game was marketed as revolutionary, we were told that it was going to be awesome...and yet it was above average and kind of poorly executed...it lacked the polish that would have made it a much better game.

Both of us simply addressed the point you raised. No more.

I actually just ordered this on Amazon today for $45.  I'm hoping I'll enjoy it and at that price point, I figure it'll still be worth it.

@Tennmuerti said:

That's your personal choice. You are rewarded less for doing easier and faster stuff, like shooting everyone, because hey it's easier. You are rewarded more by doing more time consuming/difficult sneaking and/or taking out everyone silently. Not only in a tangible XP way but also in many narrative ways. You can still walk around freely and explore even if you are playing stealthily, it's as simple as taking out the hostiles first and then exploring.

Don't you think that's kind of fucked up, though? I can understand stealth being more of an issue on a harder difficulty, but to deliberately castrate yourself like that for no reason other than XP (Which you inevitably spend on more stealth techniques) just feels like a broken system.

You're cruising for a bruising, Sweep!

@Sweep: Hello, fellow duder with my favorite avatar-because-its-on-a-threadless-shirt! I actually find you points to be spot on and I agree with all of the points you gave out.

The only incentive in going stealth and non-lethal in this game is probably for achievements and bonus in-game xp. On the other hand, I think I enjoyed the game more so than you did but I do agree that playing the game more like a cover-based shooter ala Rainbow 6 Vegas made the pace go by faster and pulling off lethal takedowns were more enjoyable to watch. This game actually reminded me of how I enjoyed the first Metal Gear Solid, not just because of the guard patterns and those other stealth augs that essentially gave you UI features found in Metal Gear Solid, but the satisfaction and the enjoyment I got when I was able to stealthily get through entire levels...just like in MGS. I think it was because of that reason it gave me that sense of nostalgia and contributed to my enjoyment of DXHR game as well.

@Sweep said:

And Oh yeah this:

@Sweep said:

That's not by choice, I didn't start playing with the mentality that I was hoping the game would fail! I just find it hard to care about this guy in particular, he starts openly weeping at his desk because he shot a kid and I tell him it's not his fault - but it just feels hollow and empty. Part of that is down to weird voice acting and minimal animations on the characters, but part of that is me genuinely not being able to empathise with the guy.

Then tell him he's a douchebag if you think he's a doucebag. That's one of your options.

Then you get to sneak into the police station like you wanted to.