@Animasta said:

@Brighty: the major complaints were mostly about as relevant as the hair, I'm sorry (and the hair is representative OF the complaints, if not the only complaint)

You really need to do more reading up on the subject, I think.

It's not that much of a shock really. Regardless of the games quality it was released in a post Christmas slot , two weeks from pay day for quite a few people, on a Tuesday rather than the traditional Friday. Whilst a simultaneous worldwide release is good for big, mainstream recognised games like Call of Duty or Halo something like DmC is going to suffer. I didn't even realise it was getting released at the same time as America so I just walked into a shop and there it was on the shelf all of a sudden.

@Shakey1245 said:

It's not that much of a shock really. Regardless of the games quality it was released in a post Christmas slot , two weeks from pay day for quite a few people, on a Tuesday rather than the traditional Friday. Whilst a simultaneous worldwide release is good for big, mainstream recognised games like Call of Duty or Halo something like DmC is going to suffer. I didn't even realise it was getting released at the same time as America so I just walked into a shop and there it was on the shelf all of a sudden.

Weird, so in the UK videogames are usually released on Fridays? I know DMC4 was, but this is the first I've heard of it as the norm.

The reason people have a negative reaction to the people who "hate" DmC is that for every normal person who has legitimate criticisms that they present in a civil matter, there is a psychopath saying that the death threats against the developers are justified and that anyone who gave the game a good review has been bought off. The problem comes from the reality that the crazies will almost always out yell everyone else.

@Tidel said:

@Quarters said:

To all the talk about who's being the bigger bully...I have no issue with people not liking the game, just be objective about it. Gametrailers had a thing the other day, some podcast called The Depths that was devoted to DmC and the reaction around it. One of the dudes on there was a big fan of the old games, played DmC all the way through, and decided that it just wasn't something he preferred personally. Now, he admitted that the game was objectively well made, but it just didn't jibe with him. That's totally cool. He gave the game a shot, calmly and clearly made his points why he didn't like it, and accepted that it wasn't the only way to look at it. If more people were like that, I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's just that a certain segment of the reaction has been extremely immature. And yes, I agree a fraction of both sides have been guilty of it, I probably have been too. Mainly, in my case, I just hate the thought of Ninja Theory getting brought down because of this.

Regardless, the main problem is that people have a hard time separating taste and actual quality of the product. For example: The Walking Dead. I loved that game. It had a very well written story. However, it was also an extremely poor game from a technical standpoint, complete with a plethora of visual/audio hiccups, crippling bugs that prevented some from even finishing it, and the gameplay was basic and stiff as a board. Does that mean I have to hate it? No. I still really enjoyed my time with it.

On that same token, you can completely dislike a game that's competently made. I don't like Bioshock in any way, shape, or form. Does that mean it's a steaming pile? No, it just means I don't like it because it doesn't appeal to me.

The issue is that once a person doesn't like the game on the Internet, it's because it's a horrible game, and if you think different, then you're wrong. And it works the other way around too. People just need to take the hyperbole down a notch.

Nicely said.

Here's the problem: The Giant Bomb staff is the reason that the above mentioned behaviour is acceptable. Listen to how many times the staff becomes immaturely hyperbolic when describing games as "ass" "steaming piles" "complete garbage" when they give them 3 or 4 star reviews. I'm not ignoring the times when a review is written by one staff member and another feels differently, and this mostly refers to them talking about games off-hand and not discussing them at length. The staff is not that different from the amazeballs/cuntshit internet mentality when it comes to describing their feelings for games a lot of the time.

You could, of course, extrapolate this beyond even the Giant Bomb staff. At this point in western society words have mostly lost their power, as we use hyperbole constantly on a daily basis. Remember when the word "awesome" had power behind it, and didn't refer to anything that tasted half-good for lunch? Neither do I, because it's been like this for so long that it's easy for discussing about anything to become ineffective due to overuse of strong language.

This rant, although short, got a little off-topic, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

@Brighty said:

@Shakey1245 said:

It's not that much of a shock really. Regardless of the games quality it was released in a post Christmas slot , two weeks from pay day for quite a few people, on a Tuesday rather than the traditional Friday. Whilst a simultaneous worldwide release is good for big, mainstream recognised games like Call of Duty or Halo something like DmC is going to suffer. I didn't even realise it was getting released at the same time as America so I just walked into a shop and there it was on the shelf all of a sudden.

Weird, so in the UK videogames are usually released on Fridays? I know DMC4 was, but this is the first I've heard of it as the norm.

In the U.S. it's Tuesday, in the U.K. it's Friday.

@Shakey1245 said:

It's not that much of a shock really. Regardless of the games quality it was released in a post Christmas slot , two weeks from pay day for quite a few people, on a Tuesday rather than the traditional Friday. Whilst a simultaneous worldwide release is good for big, mainstream recognised games like Call of Duty or Halo something like DmC is going to suffer. I didn't even realise it was getting released at the same time as America so I just walked into a shop and there it was on the shelf all of a sudden.

I think a lot of that is the lack of an advertisement push. Capcom did it with RE6, but I haven't seen anything for this game.

@Ekami said:

Talking about video games used to be something I enjoyed.

Yup. All the negativity, baseless criticism, and cynicism I see in gaming communities towards every damn game is slowly burning me out, too. I need a break, I think.

@jsnyder82 said:

@Brighty said:

@Shakey1245 said:

It's not that much of a shock really. Regardless of the games quality it was released in a post Christmas slot , two weeks from pay day for quite a few people, on a Tuesday rather than the traditional Friday. Whilst a simultaneous worldwide release is good for big, mainstream recognised games like Call of Duty or Halo something like DmC is going to suffer. I didn't even realise it was getting released at the same time as America so I just walked into a shop and there it was on the shelf all of a sudden.

Weird, so in the UK videogames are usually released on Fridays? I know DMC4 was, but this is the first I've heard of it as the norm.

In the U.S. it's Tuesday, in the U.K. it's Friday.

I don't have any problem with Friday releases, a great way to start a weekend as far as I'm concerned.

@Brighty said:

@Shakey1245 said:

It's not that much of a shock really. Regardless of the games quality it was released in a post Christmas slot , two weeks from pay day for quite a few people, on a Tuesday rather than the traditional Friday. Whilst a simultaneous worldwide release is good for big, mainstream recognised games like Call of Duty or Halo something like DmC is going to suffer. I didn't even realise it was getting released at the same time as America so I just walked into a shop and there it was on the shelf all of a sudden.

Weird, so in the UK videogames are usually released on Fridays? I know DMC4 was, but this is the first I've heard of it as the norm.

europe has always had friday launches, as far as I know (and as far as I've heard from rock paper shotgun)

@Brendan said:

@Tidel said:

@Quarters said:

To all the talk about who's being the bigger bully...I have no issue with people not liking the game, just be objective about it. Gametrailers had a thing the other day, some podcast called The Depths that was devoted to DmC and the reaction around it. One of the dudes on there was a big fan of the old games, played DmC all the way through, and decided that it just wasn't something he preferred personally. Now, he admitted that the game was objectively well made, but it just didn't jibe with him. That's totally cool. He gave the game a shot, calmly and clearly made his points why he didn't like it, and accepted that it wasn't the only way to look at it. If more people were like that, I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's just that a certain segment of the reaction has been extremely immature. And yes, I agree a fraction of both sides have been guilty of it, I probably have been too. Mainly, in my case, I just hate the thought of Ninja Theory getting brought down because of this.

Regardless, the main problem is that people have a hard time separating taste and actual quality of the product. For example: The Walking Dead. I loved that game. It had a very well written story. However, it was also an extremely poor game from a technical standpoint, complete with a plethora of visual/audio hiccups, crippling bugs that prevented some from even finishing it, and the gameplay was basic and stiff as a board. Does that mean I have to hate it? No. I still really enjoyed my time with it.

On that same token, you can completely dislike a game that's competently made. I don't like Bioshock in any way, shape, or form. Does that mean it's a steaming pile? No, it just means I don't like it because it doesn't appeal to me.

The issue is that once a person doesn't like the game on the Internet, it's because it's a horrible game, and if you think different, then you're wrong. And it works the other way around too. People just need to take the hyperbole down a notch.

Nicely said.

Here's the problem: The Giant Bomb staff is the reason that the above mentioned behaviour is acceptable. Listen to how many times the staff becomes immaturely hyperbolic when describing games as "ass" "steaming piles" "complete garbage" when they give them 3 or 4 star reviews. I'm not ignoring the times when a review is written by one staff member and another feels differently, and this mostly refers to them talking about games off-hand and not discussing them at length. The staff is not that different from the amazeballs/cuntshit internet mentality when it comes to describing their feelings for games a lot of the time.

You could, of course, extrapolate this beyond even the Giant Bomb staff. At this point in western society words have mostly lost their power, as we use hyperbole constantly on a daily basis. Remember when the word "awesome" had power behind it, and didn't refer to anything that tasted half-good for lunch? Neither do I, because it's been like this for so long that it's easy for discussing about anything to become ineffective due to overuse of strong language.

This rant, although short, got a little off-topic, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

No, I see what you mean. The simple fact of the matter is that however unfortunate it is, the likelihood of this mentality fading is low at best.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/dmc-devil-may-cry-is-a-failure.-and-a-success.-just-look-at-the-sales

Everybody read this and then calm down.

@Brighty said:

@handlas said:

@Brighty said:

@handlas said:

@LiquidPrince said:

Who cares? It will sell what it sells, but the way you framed your information seems like you want everyone to know it's failing or something. Ninja Theory deserves better then this.

NO. NEVER. Ninja Theory brought this wrath upon themselves by taking on this project. BURN THEEEEM! They will feel the scorch of a thousand burning tridents piercing their unworthy flesh.

You guys are playing EXACTLY into the stereotype we're trying to work against that is sabotaging this game. Try reading the thread.

I bought the game. The game is great. Ninja Theory did a great job. I rewarded them with my money. I'm not part of the problem good sir! How dare you.

Sigh.

Sigh indeed. Video games huh? Maybe take up football or something? This would never happen in football!

I honestly can't believe how much of a shit storm this game has caused over the last week. Both on game forums all over the Internet and from game sites that have reviewed it and continue to report on the latest nonsense about it. It's completely fucking baffling to me.

People need to stop using alt accounts to respond that's some coward BS.

@I_Rape_Trolls said:

@Pr1mus said:

@Brighty said:

@Pr1mus said:

Weren't you supposed to have left the site after Brad's review?

Yes, right after I swore to blow this reviewing conspiracy wide open.

In reality, I just thought it'd be funny to parody the insane shitstorm that was going on in the comments section, so I cancelled my auto-renewal and wrote up a dramatized version of what some of the more crazy vitirol was for laughs. And considering that the image of my cancellation and subsequent tinfoil hat posts made rounds on across the web and to neogaf of all places, I got more than my fair share of laughs that night. Unfortunately some of the more savvy members started to catch on when they went through my post history, oh well.

@GunstarRed said:

Brighty, we get it, you hate the new DMC.

No where in my post did I say that I hate the new DMC, don't be so quick to shoot the messenger just because I'm delivering bad news.

People catched on the fact that none of your hysterical posts were fake just for trolling's sake. Your just a very sad individual whose existence for the past couple weeks has been spent hating a game.

And the GiantBomb community - a community were 90% of the users are made up of users from 4chan - don't troll when defending DmC? Wow, how fucking stupid are you?

Well, as long as we're pulling statistics out of our assholes...

@Juno500 said:

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/dmc-devil-may-cry-is-a-failure.-and-a-success.-just-look-at-the-sales

Everybody read this and then calm down.

What's this? A level headed rational look at facts regarding the situation? That has no business here sir

4 couldn't have sold all that well, or they would have churned out 5.

@Barrock said:

4 couldn't have sold all that well, or they would have churned out 5.

I think it comes down to sales expectations versus reality. DMC4 may have sold well for most games, but not to the standards that Capcom had set for it internally. Regardless of whether or not DmC sells more or less than DMC4, if the numbers that Capcom wants to see aren't met, then that could scuttle plans for DmC2. We have no idea what the development and marketing budgets for both games were, nor how they compare, so to speculate any further beyond that is pointless.

@Hailinel said:

@Barrock said:

4 couldn't have sold all that well, or they would have churned out 5.

I think it comes down to sales expectations versus reality. DMC4 may have sold well for most games, but not to the standards that Capcom had set for it internally. Regardless of whether or not DmC sells more or less than DMC4, if the numbers that Capcom wants to see aren't met, then that could scuttle plans for DmC2. We have no idea what the development and marketing budgets for both games were, nor how they compare, so to speculate any further beyond that is pointless.

I didn't mean it as a slight toward DMC. Quite the opposite actually. People are saying they should have just released 6 instead of rebooting it. There's a reason they rebooted it. It wasn't done solely to piss off fans.

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@Juno500 said:

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/dmc-devil-may-cry-is-a-failure.-and-a-success.-just-look-at-the-sales

Everybody read this and then calm down.

What's this? A level headed rational look at facts regarding the situation? That has no business here sir

I think the smart thing to do now a days is drown out the noise and play what you wanna play. We still get people who still call Ryu Ga Gotoku (Yakuza in the west) GTA Japan. You never win, you just get a little closer.

Just played the first 4 levels. Game is good

People bitching about the game work for Raptor News and have ulterior agendas.

Not a fan of the series, haven't played the game. But if we're going to start judging a game's success based on silly numbers to justify our opinions, can we at least start with what is more important to us as gamers (as opposed to investors/shareholders): the game's Metacritic score?

@project343: That shouldn't be important to gamers either. Assigning a game's supposed quality (or lack thereof) to an arbitrary number is far from the best thing that's happened in the games industry. Especially when different people have different meanings assigned to those numbers/scales and publishers like Bethesda use the number as a metric for whether or not developers under them like Obsidian get their bonuses. A metric that neither the devs nor the publishers have any control over.

@Nettacki: Hence why I said 'silly' numbers. :P

@Juno500: Most of the argument there was we don't know how the digital and pc sales are doing/going to do, while that will boost the sales numbers I very much doubt it will take it to 4's sales numbers or really be that important a market for this game, especially the psn download numbers. The point about 4 being bundled is a good one though

@Brighty said:

@Shakey1245 said:

It's not that much of a shock really. Regardless of the games quality it was released in a post Christmas slot , two weeks from pay day for quite a few people, on a Tuesday rather than the traditional Friday. Whilst a simultaneous worldwide release is good for big, mainstream recognised games like Call of Duty or Halo something like DmC is going to suffer. I didn't even realise it was getting released at the same time as America so I just walked into a shop and there it was on the shelf all of a sudden.

Weird, so in the UK videogames are usually released on Fridays? I know DMC4 was, but this is the first I've heard of it as the norm.

Yup, games are normally released in the UK on a Friday hence why on occasion Ryan will mention during a TNT how european players won't be able to join in that night because the game has yet to come out here. Here is an article from Eurogame explaining how that came about. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-23-why-are-we-stuck-with-games-being-released-on-a-friday

@Shady said:

I think a lot of that is the lack of an advertisement push. Capcom did it with RE6, but I haven't seen anything for this game.

I nearly mentioned this in my post but I couldn't be sure if my not having seen any adverts was down to some ignorance on my part. I was pretty sure that I'd seen the odd bus adverts but yes no where near the push they gave to Resident Evil 6. This combined with a release in an absolute death slot here, between Christmas and the big drop of games this spring, when people haven't been paid yet on an odd day that we don't expect games to be released on.

Frankly the fact that it sold anything is an accomplished.

@Shakey1245: All I saw was web ads for the game, including the 30-second spot on Youtube.

@Nettacki said:

@Shakey1245: All I saw was web ads for the game, including the 30-second spot on Youtube.

Yeah, I haven't seen a single TV ad/billboard, but then again I only watch Justified and How it's made. I actually remember Lollipop Chainsaw getting a bigger push...which is just sad.

@MasturbatingestBear said:

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

Do you need to have played DMC4 to know that it isn't good?

Opinions. DMC4 had its fair share of problems - the most notable of which was the constant back-tracking. On the other hand, however, the game offered hands-down the best and most developed gameplay out of any iteration in the series INCLUDING the new DmC. Whether you liked DMC4 or not depends entirely on what you are looking for in an action game. Personally, I can overlook backtracking and a shitty storyline if the gameplay happens to be top notch - like in DMC4.

I also have no idea why everyone is consistently parroting the 'DMC was a niche series' assertion. Sales numbers for every iteration of the series have painted an entirely different picture. DMC has always been one of Capcom's most successful series sales-wise, and has only ever been beaten out by the juggernaut franchises like RE and SF.

Devil May Cry was never a niche series. The fourth game has moved 2.6 million copies which is not bad at all. Not major, blockbuster numbers, but for a series of hack'n'slash games known for their difficulty, not bad.

I think the problem right now is that the writing in DmC: Devil May Cry is far more juvenile than Enslaved's, which is probably turning away a few Ninja Theory fans. The combat, while fun and somewhat engaging, is simply not on the same level as DMC3 or DMC4, which is turning away more than a few Devil May Cry fans. I know the demo was enough for me to decide I can wait until it hits the bargain bin, though I'll admit I've cheated a bit by playing it with a friend who did buy it.

Essentially it's not pulling in all the fans of either while turning away people who dislike one or the other. Ninja Theory and DMC is not so much Chocolate and Peanut Butter as it is Beer and Mint. Both are good things, but they just do not fit well together, and it shows.

Good bit of new. Happy to see. I don't like or want the game... but I don't hate it and i'm happy to see it doing well.

Japan sales are in:

http://i.minus.com/iXEp1Da1tNbdD.png

So what? Lack of sales =/= bad game. Case in point: Enslaved. That game (also developed by Ninja Theory) was FUCKING INCREDIBLE, and it sold for shit.

I'm still getting DmC on PC...and I fucking loathe the DMC franchise as a whole. DMC3 was brilliant, and the first one was fun upon release. However, the first hasn't aged well, the second was pure shit, and the fourth one couldn't hold my interest longer than about three hours because it was so goddamn boring. The combat was okay, but it felt outdated in comparison to other games that had come out in the generational cycle.

This game, however, looks great up and down. I like the redesign of the world, the grittier overall look, I don't really give a shit what Dante looks like as long as he's got attitude to him (despite continuing to believe that Dante as a character is a snotty unlikable douche that I'd rather run into a pile of spikes over and over than see save the day), and the combat looks solid as hell. Plus, I love Ninja Theory.

It doesn't bode well for future prospects of the franchise. It really needs to do well for Capcom to not just drop the franchise cold turkey. I'm not sure if it will adversely affect Ninja Theory as it could be seen as them not being a reliable developer to deliver a game that can meet publisher expectations in terms of sales. Until the US numbers are in, it really is all just speculation but keep in mind that Capcom wanted 2M sales by the end of March from this game. Compare that to 2M for Monster Hunter 4 for the same time period before it was delayed, which, would have been a Japan only release and you have a pretty grim look at the future of this franchise if it can't even meet what most consider conservative numbers for Capcom projections.

@Shady said:

It doesn't bode well for future prospects of the franchise. It really needs to do well for Capcom to not just drop the franchise cold turkey. I'm not sure if it will adversely affect Ninja Theory as it could be seen as them not being a reliable developer to deliver a game that can meet publisher expectations in terms of sales. Until the US numbers are in, it really is all just speculation but keep in mind that Capcom wanted 2M sales by the end of March from this game. Compare that to 2M for Monster Hunter 4 for the same time period before it was delayed, which, would have been a Japan only release and you have a pretty grim look at the future of this franchise if it can't even meet what most consider conservative numbers for Capcom projections.

Capcom has pretty much said they are going to keep working with NT and very possibly buy them.

If they make DmC 2 we will see... but the partnership will continue again.

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Shady said:

It doesn't bode well for future prospects of the franchise. It really needs to do well for Capcom to not just drop the franchise cold turkey. I'm not sure if it will adversely affect Ninja Theory as it could be seen as them not being a reliable developer to deliver a game that can meet publisher expectations in terms of sales. Until the US numbers are in, it really is all just speculation but keep in mind that Capcom wanted 2M sales by the end of March from this game. Compare that to 2M for Monster Hunter 4 for the same time period before it was delayed, which, would have been a Japan only release and you have a pretty grim look at the future of this franchise if it can't even meet what most consider conservative numbers for Capcom projections.

Capcom has pretty much said they are going to keep working with NT and very possibly buy them.

If they make DmC 2 we will see... but the partnership will continue again.

That was all fluff talk, really. We'll see if they put their money where their mouth is in a few months. It would be a real hard sale to shareholders to invest further if this reboot doesn't live up to sales.

As much as I like the "Old Dante" DMC4 sucked and the New DMC is a much much better game. I hope it does well as much as I will miss the character model of the Old Dante.

@Shady said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Shady said:

It doesn't bode well for future prospects of the franchise. It really needs to do well for Capcom to not just drop the franchise cold turkey. I'm not sure if it will adversely affect Ninja Theory as it could be seen as them not being a reliable developer to deliver a game that can meet publisher expectations in terms of sales. Until the US numbers are in, it really is all just speculation but keep in mind that Capcom wanted 2M sales by the end of March from this game. Compare that to 2M for Monster Hunter 4 for the same time period before it was delayed, which, would have been a Japan only release and you have a pretty grim look at the future of this franchise if it can't even meet what most consider conservative numbers for Capcom projections.

Capcom has pretty much said they are going to keep working with NT and very possibly buy them.

If they make DmC 2 we will see... but the partnership will continue again.

That was all fluff talk, really. We'll see if they put their money where their mouth is in a few months. It would be a real hard sale to shareholders to invest further if this reboot doesn't live up to sales.

Why do you say it's all fluff talk? Because you want it to be?

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Shady said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Shady said:

It doesn't bode well for future prospects of the franchise. It really needs to do well for Capcom to not just drop the franchise cold turkey. I'm not sure if it will adversely affect Ninja Theory as it could be seen as them not being a reliable developer to deliver a game that can meet publisher expectations in terms of sales. Until the US numbers are in, it really is all just speculation but keep in mind that Capcom wanted 2M sales by the end of March from this game. Compare that to 2M for Monster Hunter 4 for the same time period before it was delayed, which, would have been a Japan only release and you have a pretty grim look at the future of this franchise if it can't even meet what most consider conservative numbers for Capcom projections.

Capcom has pretty much said they are going to keep working with NT and very possibly buy them.

If they make DmC 2 we will see... but the partnership will continue again.

That was all fluff talk, really. We'll see if they put their money where their mouth is in a few months. It would be a real hard sale to shareholders to invest further if this reboot doesn't live up to sales.

Why do you say it's all fluff talk? Because you want it to be?

No because publishers always say it was great to work with a developer when the project is complete. It's all friendly PR. Until Capcom puts Ninja Theory to work on another project, I'll take it with a grain of salt. Like I said, the shareholders are really the only people Capcom cares about and you'd be delusional to think otherwise.