Edit 1 8/17/2106

First off I am overwhelmed by the support and advice from you all. It's amazing. I've have found some really helpful stuff! Being new to the M+K I've been trying to find a good starting place, dpi wise, in game sensitivity, and mouse movement. One of the comments discussed not needing to use the enite mouse pad area and trying to restrict mouse movements to only the wrist. That advice was exactly what I was looking for because I naturally assumed that it should all come from my wrist. I realized quickly though that 360 movement is tied to how far I could move my wrist. I found that moving my wrist to as far as I comfortably could yielded minimal turning at low DPI. Obviously to counter this I turned up the DPI, unfortunately it made made looking and aiming erratic (much like when turning thumbstick sensitivity up on a controller). At that point it made me question if my mouse movement technique. I could lower the DPI but then it would require me to use my arm to move the mouse to keep turning. So I've been question what's the typical way to play FPS with the M+K. I think also an issue is that on a controller I just push and hold the thumbstick and the camera continues to rotate until I let off the stick. Obviously that doesn't work on the mouse because when the mouse stops moving the camera stops moving. I think my brain is thinking that I only have to move the mouse a little bit and the camera will continue to rotate until I let off of it. Thanks for the tips so far guys.

Original Post

Hey everybody I wanted your take on something. I'm new to the PC FPS scene, i.e., M+K. I've grown up on the controller my whole life. I picked up a Razar Mamba and Doom and was excited to dip my feet into the PC FPS experience. Truth be told I've found myself very uncomfortable with the M+K. The biggest problem for me is that I feel it takes a lot of effort to 1. Coordinate the WASD and Mouse, and 2. Spin around and kill all the enemies running towards me. With problem #2 I find that I have to physically move my arm, instead of my wrist to do a 180 or 360, and then I find myself all the way at the edge of my mouse pad and I have have to lift up my mouse a re-center it to the middle of the pad. I assumed that I would be able to play comfortably which just moving my wrist, but it seems that it's more labor intensive than that. I've done the research into DPI, polling rates, in game sensitivity, etc. Either I end up with the DPI too high or too low and then find myself spending more time tweaking the DPI then playing the game. Using the M+K makes the game less enjoyable. The minute I switch to the controller I feel right at home and being to enjoy the game again.

What's wrong here? Is it me? Is it the game? Do I just have to force myself to play M+K until I get used to it? I'm bummed because I hear how "FPS are meant to be played on M+K".

Nothing is wrong with you or the game. Play how you want. That said, yes, you probably would just need to force yourself to play with M+K until you get used to it, if you really wanted to. Question: do you play inverted look on a gamepad? If so, you might try not doing so with a mouse. I have to have right stick inverted, but simply cannot do that with a mouse.

It's definitely not the game, mouse and keyboard feels great in Doom. Do you have acceleration turned on or something?

You know, it also takes time and effort to adjust to M+K. Dial in the settings best for you, but you gotta put in the work to get a feel for it. I know it took awhile for me to adjust to M+K, but I can't go back now (unless it's something pretty casual), and Doom will quickly get you into shape.

@mike: I don't believe so. I did the basic turn off enhance pointer precision, but I haven't installed Mark C Windows or anything.

Really the issue is I'm used to the holding the thumb stick for turning, with the mouse I have to be constantly moving it to keep turning. It's something that my brain is not used to.

I know you can Google this all day long about DPI and poll settings but I haven't found much on Doom. What do you guys suggest as a good launching point? I understand that you gotta do what feels right to you, but switching over from controller to M+K has been a huge change in the way I play.

It took years for mouse and keyboard to feel as comfortable as controllers for me. There's more to take into account - posture, height, chair, etc. - and different people feel more comfortable with different mouses and sensitivities.

So... yeah. It will take some work. It's definitely worth it, though. The accuracy you get from it is way more satisfying than fighting an analog stick to make a minute adjustment.

Sounds like you just don't like mouse and keyboard? I really can't speak to the rest as when I play mouse and keyboard I rarely have to adjust anything. My mouse easily can adjust sensitivity with buttons on it and that's all I ever have to mess with. I use controller a fair amount for games but going back to mouse on shooters is usually my move and still feels absolutely the best for precision.

Sorry if my post isn't helpful but just sounds like you don't want to play with a mouse. That's fine.

@artisanbreads: True. It's not about forcing myself into something I'm not comfortable with, but when hear about how "amazing" it is, it just bummed me out that I'm not getting the hang of it.

@lordrenrew: I take my games seriously and all and grew up with PC so I know my way around a mouse. But I love a lot of parts of the controller and choose to play with a controller in most games these days. I think mouse is undeniably better at aiming and precision with shooters and of course how you want to play your RTS type games but otherwise I get a ton from compact, easy control layout and analog movement.

If you're playing single player and don't care about doing your hardest difficulties you should be fine. There it really makes a big difference but you shouldn't feel like you have to do anything you don't want.

@artisanbreads: @lordrenrew: What I would say as someone who has put time learning a number of different control methods for different games, is that all control methods are actually a lot less intuitive than we tend to think of them, especially if we're learning a new method and grew up with a different method. Fun fact: If the OP grew up on mouse and keyboard, learning to play a FPS on controller would feel super weird. I mostly grew up playing RTS games on mouse and keyboard and most of the shooters I did play were on mouse and keyboard. To this day FPS games on controller feel weird, like I'm controlling a tank.

However, thing is with some time and practice you DO feel some improvement, it just doesn't immediately pay off. Naturally trying to do something for the first time is going to feel real weird, it's like learning to write for the first time. Don't underestimate muscle memory! Imagine if you (like a bunch of kids these days I suppose) grew up learning how to type on a smartphone screen but as a high schooler had to suddenly learn how to type on a keyboard. It'd be super hard to figure out. That said, with time and practice such a kid could easily double his words per minute on keyboard compared to on a phone screen. I started playing fighting games on a controller, then went to an arcade stick, then to this weird thing called a hitbox. Every time it was like learning to ride a bike from the beginning. I stuck with it though and saw benefits eventually.

My advice is stick with it, maybe turn the game down to an easier level till you get used to it. When I was learning FPS games on a controller it felt super weird to me, you're just going to end up putting enough time for it to not feel weird anymore. For doing a 180, I don't know if the field of view might be smaller than it should but you could always look into that and see if it's at a recommended setting. More importantly than that, I'd recommend just trying to use a higher DPI setting on your mouse. It feels super weird but is worth it in the long run for most gameplay, except when you want some pinpoint accuracy, when you might want to turn it down. I usually used to play on 1200 DPI on my logitech mice (1200 being a pretty medium speed), but eventually adapted to 2000 DPI. I don't recommend actually trying to find "the DPI setting that works for you!" as eventually you'll get used to whatever setting you're at. Just find the setting (probably between 1200-2000) that lets you do a 360 quick enough.

You won't immediately see the benefit, but you totally will with time. And not even as a super long term goal; in a couple of weeks you should start adjusting. You could ease into it with a lower difficulty, or force yourself to try and adapt on the spot with a higher difficulty. But when you do adapt - playing an FPS on a controller will feel like driving a tank compared to playing on a mouse and keyboard.

i'm curious where you are on the palm grip to claw grip spectrum, based on the fact that you've only mentioned arms and wrist but not fingers i'm guessing you're leaning more towards palm grip? i'd suggest trying a more clawlike grip, I haven't used a mamba but it looks like it should be reasonably comfortable. (hard to guess how well you can squeeze inward with your pinky and ring from a photo especially since handsize matters) hopefully it doesn't track on your pad even after you've lifted it half a centimeter, only a few mm hopefully

when i played osu! in 2008 i actually planted my wrist to the pad (though i still used it a little) my thumb, ring, and pinky were doing nearly all of the work. (despite that, i'm a ludicrously low sensitivity player when it comes to fps, usually i'll have to tank the in-game setting despite running 400dpi default)

i got into ut2k3 around the same time i got into halo, the more time passed the more i moved to mouse exclusively. At my peak i had a gigantic mousepad and had to move 24" to do a 360 degree turn while playing ut3, which necessitated my entire arm being above the table (i've since calmed down notably, closer to half of that, which allows for lazy elbow on table :P) (but throughout all of it i still maintain a very tight claw grip with finger movements for precision)it took a lot of practice to drop my sensitivity like that, but it's my preference. There isn't really any correct combination of sensitivity preference and grip preference, but there is a combination that works best for you. there are great players with razer copperheads and sensitivities so high I pretty much never see their forearm move significantly. dunno how they do it. presumably the same practice it took me to do the exact opposite. with the tremors i have i don't think i could ever be good with a high sens

@belegorm said:

how accurately can you tap out a 180bpm 16th note drumroll between your right pinky and index finger on small rectangles, what about the left side of your palm and the right side of your palm against big domes. i love arcade music games

@belegorm said:

is this code for maximum or bust because hell yeah full on 130 life

@lordrenrew:Doom is the first FPS game in over three years that I've played with a keyboard and mouse, and it's been amazing to come back to this control method with such an awesome game. I'm whipping up rocket headshots left and right at 140fps like it was 1999.

However if Doom is your first M+K FPS game, I fully understand that it might feel a bit overwhelming. A bit like having iRacing with assists turned off be your first driving game. I'd recommend picking up something slower paced as your tutorial to desktop gaming, the new Wolfenstein games for example. If you still feel more comfortable on a gamepad, then just plug one in and have a great time that way.

@lordrenrew: If you're new to M&K going straight into large gaming mice like the one you're trying might not be the best experience. Especially considering you only want to move the wrist and not the arm. For that smaller mice can be preferable and easier to start with.

People have different preferences regarding this, for example me personally I can't stand large bulky mice, I much prefer small light ones. To the point where I have frequently over the years just used your basic standard small Dell wireless mice for gaming that are cheap as fuck. I play with the mouse being held only with my fingers, not resting an entire palm on it, (ie the finger grip) and the bottom of my wrist never moves at all, it just rests on the mouse pad.

I really suggest you give that a shot. And all that's really required is to go into your windows mice settings turn off any acceleration and set the speed comfortable for you. You really don't need to give a fuck about DPI settings ever unless you're trying to be super hardcore competitive in an FPS game.

(PS: If you're playing it on a monitor, I also suggest going into game settings and increasing the FoV, it's not just a visual thing, but having more peripheral vision also means having more comfort in looking around. No need to go overboard to the max for fish eye effect, but even setting it to 90-100 could help you out.)

@lordrenrew: It just takes time. I was in the complete opposite situation as you, having played all my games on PC on mouse and keyboard nearly my entire gaming life I switched to consoles in college when I got an xbox360. I felt just as confused and uncoordinated trying to aim in first person shooters or basically doing anything with the thumbsticks. If you can believe it I felt like driving around in GTA felt a lot more comfortable using WASD than a gamepad. Bioshock being the first FPS I tried playing using a gamepad probably wasn't doing me any favors either.

With time though I adjusted and today I probably feel more at home using a gamepad than keyboard and mouse, which quite frankly has started giving me hand cramps after extended play sessions. That said I did play through all of Doom using keyboard and mouse because I felt like I needed that speed and precision.

I just need someone to invent a viable "Mouse and Gamepad" lol, only thing M/KB is good for is aiming and strategy games, and steam controller does pretty damn good in strategy games for me. I find using the keyboard for movement counter intuitive and overly complicated to do mundane things like crouch and strafe etc.

Doom plays great with a gamepad btw, never tried the multiplayer though.

WASD can be pretty weird for someone who has never gamed with a keyboard before, and even as a life-long PC gamer, I've had some trouble going back to it recently because I've using a controller so much recently. It's just something you need to get used to. As for the mouse issue, every mouse feels a bit different so you might have to shop around a bit to find one that works. There is a reason why most PC gamers have a box full of old mice and mousepads lying around from over the years. As for how you are moving the mouse, there are typically three types of grips - claw, palm, and fingertip. With a claw only the bottom of your hand is resting on the mouse and your fingers are up in the click buttons almost like a claw shape. With a palm grip, most of your palm is on the mouse (and maybe a bit on the mousepad) with your fingers resting naturally on the click buttons and sides. With a fingertip grip, only your fingers are on the mouse and your palm or arm isn't touching anything. As for dpi, since you are new to PC gaming I would probably have you start with a low-ish DPI on a cloth mousepad to get a good feel, and then move up the DPI from there as you see fit. It really is a matter of just finding what works for you.

Economy of movement is everything, so you don't really need to go the edge of the pad every time you need to make a gross movement in any direction. Work with the DPI and try to find the sweet spot between accuracy and speed so you can do what you need to without going all over the pad. Also, getting a large pad probably isn't a bad idea. I would focus on planting your arm on the desk and trying trying to use your wrist movements. There are times when you'll have to move your arm and lift the mouse, but most of your movement should be from the wrist.

Also, Doom is a REALLY fast game to be jumping in to without having played a lot of FPS games on PC. Maybe pick up one of the older Call of Duty titles and play that with a mouse and keyboard to get the feel and then move on to something so fast-paced?

I've always played games with a pretty damn high DPI. The horizontal space I have for my mouse is about 15cm (or about 6 inches for you Americans), and the mouse's width is about half of that. So in reality I can only move my mouse 7.5cm left or right and I generally play so I can do a full 360 degree turn or more in one motion moving either just my wrist, or a slight motion at my elbow. So it's totally possible to have the full degree of needed movement with slight motions. However it probably takes a lot of getting used to. I've been using this setup for so long that I have difficulty remembering a time I had trouble with it so I can't really tell you how long it takes, just that it does take practice.

You absolutely can play using only your wrist - I've got a small mousepad and I just turn my wrist to 180 and still have high accuracy - it's all about what you are comfortable with. Lifting the mouse and recentering it is something everyone does naturally and it's an important skill you need to learn.

You might also want to look into "Mouse Properties" under Device Settings as well to make sure that things like Mouse Pointer Speed are set correctly. It should be at exactly 6, the center point between 1 and 11. One day I was fiddling around and discovered that my mouses pointer speed was set to 7 for some reason, which I then realized had been giving me frustrations in playing games for about a year. No DPI or "Raw Mouse Input" is going to help you in that kind of situation.

@stonyman65: Thank you. This was very helpful.

@49th: Very helpful and assuring. Thank you.

You shouldn't restrict yourself to only using your wrist unless you want an RSI.

When people suggest wrist only, I would assume they don't mean for full 360 view. I can't imagine playing at a setting where I could full 360 with just wrist. The times where you'll need to full 360 are scarce enough that it isn't worth the extreme camera movement of your immediate view.

That said, just do what makes you comfortable, duder. You can always adjust incrimentally as you get used to a setting.