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    Final Fantasy VII Remake

    Game » consists of 7 releases. Released Apr 10, 2020

    Teased since the PlayStation 3's debut, Square Enix finally delivers a complete remake of the fan favorite Final Fantasy from 1997.

    I'm A Final Fantasy Pessimist But I Don't Get People Upset At Intergrade's Ending (SPOILER WARNING!)

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    ZombiePie

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    Edited By ZombiePie  Staff

    Preamble (And Again, SPOILER WARNING!)

    These sorts of interviews from three years ago sure make a lot more sense now.
    These sorts of interviews from three years ago sure make a lot more sense now.

    Despite having a reputation of ripping Final Fantasy and Square-Enix a new fucking asshole in their spare time, I have managed to avoid talking about Final Fantasy VII Remake. And before you ask, there's no compelling reason for this other than I have not been able to get to writing about it with the three or four incomplete blog series I already have kicking about on the site. Shit, I have been looking at the rough draft of my second write-up on Chrono Cross with no idea on how to make it even remotely readable for a solid week. And after I'm done talking about that game, my next closed reading of a Final Fantasy game will be Final Fantasy XIII-2 because I consider it one of the most criminally misunderstood games in the franchise. Then there are the fifteen of you who will not shut up about me needing to get into Final Fantasy XIV, Tactics, or Final Fantasy VI. But you know what? Fuck it; I'll bite. Let's talk about Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade and this supposedly "controversial" ending, which leads me to warn anyone reading this blog that it will have SPOILERS!

    Before we can discuss Intergrade, I feel like there is some housekeeping worth addressing about where I stand regarding Remake. First, I like the real-time combat in Final Fantasy VII Remake and Intergrade. Personally, I hope Square-Enix develops episode two with that in mind first and would not mind if they ditched the turn-based combat "olive branch" they included in the first game. Second, I think this is the absolute best rendition of these characters as wholly realized ciphers for different perspectives and viewpoints. Third, I consider the first handful of acts to be the strongest and the mid-point far more compelling when you avoid the side quest "clutter" the game inundates you with when Midgar starts to open up. Midgar feels like a wholly realized environment, and exploring it during the early phases of the game is an absolute treat. Finally, the depiction of non-romantic interpersonal relationships was my favorite part of the game by a country mile. There's something to be said about Tifa and Aerith having a more authentic relationship than Cloud does with any of the female leads or characters.

    Also, I have been asking this question for a while, but how are Yuffie's short staying on if they are unbuttoned AND unzipped?
    Also, I have been asking this question for a while, but how are Yuffie's short staying on if they are unbuttoned AND unzipped?

    And before I review what I did not like, I want to emphasize that I overall enjoyed Final Fantasy VII Remake. I strongly recommend people check it out, even if they have no nostalgia for the original game. HOWEVER, HOT DAMN did Kitase and Normua completely sabotage their best opportunity to prove they can make a straightforward fantasy epic! The entire final act of the game is a bunch of convoluted bullshit. Worse, it demonstrates that Nomura and Kitase cannot help themselves when it comes to an understanding of what people generally find appealing about the mainline Final Fantasy games. Most people did NOT buy Final Fantasy VII Remake so the two could have another go at their ill-fated and highly lampooned "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII." Not only that, but their continual lack of discipline leads to my least favorite part of Final Fantasy VII Remake: the inventory and menu clutter. You get so much shit in the game because it has no other notions of opting you into side quests or optional content other than giving you different sparkly trinkets. Finally, I think making Final Fantasy VII Remake visually "realistic" was a mistake. There's a visual dissonance when Barret towers over five-foot-tall Unreal Engine auto-generated NPCs, or Tifa is waltzing around in her usual outfit in photorealistic office cubicles. This issue is worsened with Yuffie in Intergrade, as her modern reinterpretation is a nostalgic trip down memory lane that is also in constant conflict with the world that surrounds her. Speaking of Yuffie, let's jump into Intergrade specifically!

    The "Outrage" Over Intergrade's Final Boss And Ending Is Distracting People From More Important Issues With Intergrade

    What did this trash boy every do to you?
    What did this trash boy every do to you?

    For reasons we will get into shortly, discussing Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade is a bit of a "hazard." Before I get around to sharing how I feel about the matter, I need to remind people of a couple of things. If you are one of the many people who have expressed anger or frustration with where Final Fantasy VII Remake is going, I respect you and your opinion. Nothing I am about to say should be considered a personal attack against opinions or personalities whose thoughts and impressions do not match mine. Nonetheless, it appears people were not fans of how Intergrade ended, and it seemingly has reinvigorated those skeptical of how Remake ended. To these skeptics, I can only respond by throwing my hands in the air and shouting, "What did you expect?" Tetsuya Nomura is the lead director, and Yoshinori Kitase is the lead producer. And if you have been following the Final Fantasy franchise long enough to have an itemized list of reasons you don't like them including Deepground, how did you not predict this would happen? More than half the creative leads behind Kingdom Hearts worked on Remake, and you mean to tell me you expected a clear and cohesive narrative with no science-fiction-based tomfoolery? That seems incredibly shortsighted from my distant vantage point.

    None of this eye-rolling on my part is to suggest there are not legitimate criticisms of Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade. The most significant issue is that Square-Enix completely overpromised what Intergrade would provide. The expansion is short and relies heavily on pure nostalgia when sharing another bevy of minigames and side quests that feel primarily disconnected from the main plot. I certainly appreciate the effort put into making the Fort Condor missions genuinely fun. However, I hope Square-Enix finds a way to make these fan service minigames embedded into the game world rather than have Chadley ask you to clunk on a VR headset to play some simulations. But the game's length is the real issue. It presents a massive disconnect between fans and Square-Enix regarding what either view as enough storytelling hooks to keep people hopeful Episode Two will come out during their lifetimes. More importantly, Intergrade showcases yet again that Remake's creative team is not consistent at making compelling original characters. Sonon Kusakabe is a walking trope and his story arc is so painfully predictable it hurts. At no point does his relationship with Yuffie feel at all fully realized or worth exploring. That makes his demise, and the amount of time the story belabors the tragedy of his death absolutely groan-inducing.

    But not a lot of people are talking about these problems. Instead, all anyone wants to talk about is how they feel "betrayed" that this DLC had the gall to include a character from Dirge of Cerberus as its final boss. To which I have to ask, where was that sense of indignity when Advent Children was first announced? Additionally, where was this outrage when Final Fantasy VII Remake courted GOTY attention last year? Including characters that specific sub-sets of the Final Fantasy VII fandom don't approve of did not prevent people from getting the same emotional reactions in Remake that the original attempted to instill with its audience twenty-plus years ago. Which reminds me, it is essential to note that people like us are intended to be the minority of Square-Enix's expected audience with Final Fantasy VII Remake. They knew bringing Zack back from the dead, including Deepground, and laying the groundwork for Aerith NOT TO DIE would piss off long-time fans. But go back and listen to virtually every interview Nomura or Kitase made before Remake released, and it's pretty clear they intended to make a game that introduced the world of Final Fantasy VII to a new generation. So, more power to them even if I disapprove of their creative choices. Likewise, I cannot feign outrage when the original game is playable on virtually any platform imaginable, including the possibility of smart refrigerators in the next two years.

    Let's Not Forget That Some Of The "Original" Characters In 7R Came From A Novel Set In The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII!

    HA HA HA! I TRICKED YOU INTO READING A BLOG ABOUT FINAL FANTASY LIGHT NOVELS! But before you leave, here's my key point. The big "reveal" that Dirge of Cerebus and Crisis Core are "canon" started far earlier than most people think. Somehow lost in the loop is that a portion of the "new" cast members in Final Fantasy VII Remake are not new. Many of them first appeared in the same "Compilation of Final Fantasy VII" some critics are willing to dismiss as garbage. Think I'm lying? Well, then sit back and let me talk to you about "Final Fantasy VII: The Kids Are Alright: A Turks Side Story." In this short novel, you follow the detective adventures of Evan Townshend as they try to carve out an existence in Midgar after the events of Final Fantasy VII. By the second or third chapter, he quickly is assigned to investigate the theft of Geostigma medication. He reconnects with his female assistant and goes on a long quest to find the stolen medicine. However, let's stick with this junior detective for a bit. She's a master thief and a bubbly personality who is a spunky rouge. Despite her proclivity for thievery, she is also sensitive and humble and treats Evan like a brother. Her name is Kyrie Canaan, and if you have forgotten what she looks like in Remake, here's a picture.

    But this rabbit hole goes deeper.
    But this rabbit hole goes deeper.

    Kyrie isn't the only character from this oft-forgotten novel that re-appears in Final Fantasy VII Remake. Kyrie's mother is a full-fledged character in this book, and her Remake counterpart is essentially the same. More importantly, Kyrie's childhood friend has a significant role in the Remake continuity as well. In "The Kids Are Alright," Kyrie's compatriot is a former employee of Don Corneo seeking to re-establish themselves after being beset with tragedy. His name is Leslie Kyle. You know him as the guy who stood up for Cloud and put a gun to Don Corneo's face. What does any of this prove? While you weren't looking, Square-Enix, by hook or by crook, made characters that exclusively appeared in The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII work within the world and continuity of VII Remake. For most of these characters, they didn't just copy and paste them from the source material. They added depth where needed and found organic ways to connect them to Cloud and his troupe of eco-terrorists. And if you want to say this is not enough evidence that Deepground, Weiss, or Nero will "gel," all I can say is that they already act and behave differently from the last time we saw them. Changes are coming whether we want them to or not, and it's unfair to Square-Enix to assume they will repeat the same mistakes. Well, at least for now.

    Furthermore, it's wildly inconsistent to argue that you hate Nero and Weiss being in Remake or Intergrade because they come from a "convoluted" or "awful" extended continuity when there are characters you have praised that also come from the same continuity. These naysayers haven't even allowed the Deepground characters to breathe before leveling negativity their way, let alone allowed them to show their differences. People upset that Zack is alive are equally surprising to me. Zack is a character Nomura personally loves, and to assume he wouldn't appear at any point seems suspect. And before you ask, I like Crisis Core's interpretation of Zack more than the original game's version of the character. The Zack of OG Final Fantasy VII IS A NOTHING BURGER! The charismatic Zack more people are familiar with is a retcon Nomura and Kitase pioneered for Crisis Core!That's dancing around the issue of whether or not this "new guard" at Square-Enix is even capable of making a shot-for-shot remake of Final Fantasy VII and preserving its core messages. Which, you know what? Let's talk about that next!

    Why Is Everyone Convinced A Shot-For-Shot Remake Or More Faithful Adaptation Would Work?

    Just let them make the Final Fantasy games they want and sit back and enjoy the ride.
    Just let them make the Final Fantasy games they want and sit back and enjoy the ride.

    I honestly want to spend some time talking about this question and want those of you still salty about Intergrade to give me your answer. First, you all realize Hironobu Sakaguchi hasn't directed a Final Fantasy game since Final Fantasy IX. With that in mind, tell me who currently at Square-Enix is equipped to re-examine Final Fantasy VII beat-by-beat and comprehend the thought process and intent with every significant scene in that game? AND you have to consider Naoki Yoshida is already working on Final Fantasy XVI and content updates for XIV. You can't have him work on everything in hopes of unfucking up the franchise. So, that leaves Nomura and Kitase and whose stylistic choices and narrative preferences are well known. You knew what these characters would look like when you heard Nomura was in charge of the character models, and the same could be said about there being a late-game plot twist with Kitase as the lead producer. The fact this game has characters whose motivations are easy to comprehend is a goddamn miracle, and I'll take whatever tiny victories I can get.

    And you know what? They still nailed the fundamentals of both Final Fantasy VII Remake and Intergrade. Both showcase the best version of the primary cast we have seen to date and are visually impressive. And as I suggested in the previous section, with characters like Yuffie, Zack, and the Turks, why would you expect them NOT to pull from the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII? All of them are surface-level characters at best in the original game and genuinely benefitted from their depictions in the expanded Final Fantasy VII universe. In the original Final Fantasy VII, Zack's whole purpose is to deliver spooky flashbacks to Cloud and then get shot. That's all he does. So, did you genuinely expect the writers not to use materials they already had on tap and spent decades making? That last point is worth emphasizing. Even if you don't like Advent Children or even Crisis Core, which I am right there with you, you KNOW Kitase and Nomura love that shit. You've known this for over ten years!

    However, maybe you're one of those types who thinks throwing Deepground into the mix or retconning Zack to be alive is a step too far. Again, you have to consider the people in charge of Final Fantasy VII Remake and consider they spent over a decade working on the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII. The way they appear in Remake and Intergrade is probably the best possible outcome unless you want more development resources to be drained on prequel spin-off games. Likewise, the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII sold well. Even if you hated what those games and tie-ins added to Final Fantasy VII, it's hard not to imagine the internet jumping for joy when they see Vincent Valentine or Cid Highwind briefly cameo in an episode two teaser trailer. Additionally, I'm not a massive fan of Dirge of Cerberus or Crisis Core, but I appreciate how Intergrade makes Square's direction more transparent. These games are not about providing a "best hits" journey of Final Fantasy VII, and that point has been hammered home. As the characters march towards Kalm during Intergrade's epilogue, you get the real sense that we are in uncharted waters even if the locations and visuals look the same. And if you ask me, I would rather play a game where they tried something new and untested than watch them completely miss the mark trying to copy someone else's work. The following games are going to be schlock, and I am here for it. I want to ride this rocketship to the stars and back to Earth because it's going to be a trip I remember for the rest of my life.

    Now I'm Going To Engage In Wild Speculation Because I Have Nothing Else Better To Do With My Time

    And I'm going to be honest, I LIKED the epilogue of Intergrade.
    And I'm going to be honest, I LIKED the epilogue of Intergrade.

    I'm going to wrap this blog up in a little bit, but I want to comment on the possible future for the Remake continuity. First, I look at the path forward for Square-Enix objectively. It's not for me, and I wish it were different, but fuck if I can blame them for blazing this trail. All of these incremental spin-offs and remakes are bound to make them a shit ton of money, and odds are development on Episode Two is nowhere near where they want it to be. Shit, have we completely forgotten how this global pandemic probably fucked up their entire production cycle? Second, Final Fantasy VII Remake is a game built upon a foundation of compromises much like the original film trilogy for The Lord of the Rings. Remake and Intergrade provide enough of the same emotional highs as the original while also being their own things to make them worthwhile experiences. Finally, if newcomers are emotionally responding to the highs and lows of Remake and Intergrade the same way we all did when playing the original game, who are we to judge?

    To me, Intergrade is the final Parthian Shot from Square-Enix that everything is on the table. So it would not surprise me if Kadaj appeared and introduced himself as the final boss at the end of either of the Final Fantasy VII Remake mobile games. In an industry where well-done and fully realized remasters or remakes are awarded the same sales and critical acclaim as original titles, who can honestly blame Square-Enix for what they are doing? People fucking LOVE Vincent, Yuffie, AND Zack, so why not make them and their side adventures available for the future? Speaking of which, the way Intergrade's epilogue frames the next episode seems pretty clear cut. The next time we return to the world of VII Remake, it will pick up at Kalm. I predict the next game smash cuts to the "Nibelheim Incident" and conveys Cloud's original, though flawed, recollection of the event. My best hunch is that the game will likely end at Junon Harbor and the reawakening of "The Weapons." The last prediction I'll make is one related to Zack. I think the narrative for the next couple of games will be "split," with the player switching between controlling Cloud and Zack. The Square-Enix of today LOVES deuteragonists, and I doubt that is stopping any time soon.

    And before we end things, I want to say I agree with the spirit of what some bitter fans are saying. I would rather I not see Nero and his fucking straightjacket-covered face ever again. However, I don't think that was ever a possibility. Kitase and Nomura, when left to their own devices, add complexity when and where it is not needed. I can only assume that we are seconds away from Cloud using time travel to stop Sephiroth from killing Aerith, and I would not bet against that very idea crossing Nomura's mind at least once already. Also, judging those two by their prior products, I am pessimistic they will handle the surfacing of Cloud's mid to late-game neuroses well. At the very least, this amalgam world that Square-Enix is pioneering plays well and looks nice. And it is bound to be a story and game unlike any we have ever played before. However, there better be a dolphin minigame in episode two.

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    Efesell

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    The more they fuck around with the story the better, honestly. I want it to barely resemble its original counterpart at some point.

    Start applying Kingdom Hearts style nonsense to "Remake" with each iteration as it becomes less and less of a relevant descriptor.

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    epidehl

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    While it's a weirdly specific thing, I REALLY love a series introducing weird convoluted stuff, and then trying to rationalize everything as it goes. The Fast and the Furious movies do this with their weird timeline, and a lot of KH is also this. Hell, Red vs. Blue did a lot of this back in the day. I just find it really interesting the way people will try and make things "work" that weren't necessarily ever intended to.

    I don't really follow online discourse, so I hadn't realized people were SO MAD about INTERmission, but I suppose I'm not surprised (I'll agree that it's too short and ends VERY abruptly) . Maybe it's an age thing (I would've been 14-17), but I liked a lot the Compilation of FFVII stuff. Hell, I repIayed Dirge and played Crisis Core for the first time in the lead up to this. I got HYPED that Nero was also in it, cause the trailer I saw only showed Weiss. And it's a cool boss fight! They used a bunch of his moves from Dirge! They look rad in HD! Also the Weiss fight fulfills my need for super bosses, much like the data fights and Yozora in the KH3 DLC. Wish they'd put more of that in the base game though.

    My brother and I have actually been hoping since the original ending that the next game would just START with the Nibelheim flashback, and I'm glad the "epilogue" makes that more likely.

    And lastly, XIII-2 rules. It's legit one of my favorite FF games, in spite of XIII being one of TWO (with XV) that I'd really say I dislike.

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    doctordonkey

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    I totally get why diehard #NoChanges fans would be upset, because this Remake compilation is going to be nothing like what they expected or wanted. However, count me among the people who don't really think the original FF7 story is all that sacred. Like most JRPG's, it's the characters and the way they interact with each other that really matters, and the world setting. The overarching story is just kinda okay, and it doesn't need to be more than that.

    I'm looking forward to see how much it differs, and I hope they go completely off the rails and do some crazy shit like the last chapter. I don't need to see the original FF7 story re-done with modern technology, that story has been a known quantity for over two decades, let's do something wild and different. Even if it falls flat or is received generally negatively, I just wanna see them go for it. Then they can say "hey, we let this thing run wild and really went for it, no regrets".

    Another thing is that these potential purists are people who played the original back in 97 at this point are well into their 30's by this point. By the time this whole thing is wrapped up and finished sometime in the 2030's, are they even gonna give a shit by then? Are people gonna be sitting around at the ripe ol' age of 41 clamoring about how they didn't like the direction the remake went in? Make this series for new fans, I say.

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    sparky_buzzsaw

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    I'm completely fine with them fucking with the story because that original game still exists and is easily playable. If they did this with, say,Suikoden II, the backlash would be merited.

    In the same vein, though, it is absolutely valid to hate Square's new action-focused combat in the FF games. I get it, Dragon Quest and Lost Sphear and whatever still exist, but I have played that FFVIIR demo and I think the combat is straight-up a fun killer. But they're going to do what they are going to do and Twitch and YouTube exist so... shrug. I'll buy the hell out of a smartly updated turn based Final Fantasy thing. FFVIIR, I will look at, say "Well, that Tifa background on my PS4 was killer," and hope they put out something as fun to play as it is to look at.

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    Teddie

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    It's hard for me to really come to a conclusion on the changes until I see it all play out. I'm pretty neutral on OG FF7 as a whole-- it's good but it never blew me away. The Compilation stuff, on the other hand, is everything I hate about modern Square Enix condensed into greasy, rancid packages, and I'm desperately hoping Remake doesn't join them when it wraps up.

    It's very obvious they have no clear plan for this story, or even the scope of this project. A lot of the development side of things so far rub me the wrong way, and already set off a lot of my alarm bells. I don't know that Square Enix can pull this off-- or maybe they can pull it off, now that they're playing to their strengths instead of trying to recreate the magic of a decades old classic?

    At the very least, I've adjusted my expectations for future games. I also disliked the direction Kingdom Hearts took after the first game, but when I went into KH3 expecting another dumb fun ride, I got that, and I had a blast with it. Now that's become what I want outta Kingdom Hearts, and as long as this Remake endeavor keeps the same humour and upbeat attitude the first entry had, I can see the value in it.

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    Nillock

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    #6  Edited By Nillock

    To me (and I'm going to assume almost everybody who was old enough to play Final Fantasy VII on the PS1 when it first came out), the game was amazing in context of RPGs that had come immediately before.

    In other words, it was groundbreaking for it's time, and that's where its popularity came from. Almost like Star Wars when it first came out. The visuals, the score, the character designs, Aerith dying and taking good inventory items with the to her grave.. all of it was such a giant leap from the RPGs I was playing months before. Like I thought it couldn't get better than Lunar CD.

    And so I got hooked. I bought all of the spin off games. I bought Advent Children. I own FF VII action figures (good lord help help). My ringtone was the FF Vii Victory Song, just like Cloud's phone in Advent Children (again, please help me).

    I love FF VII because of nostalgia a hell of a lot more than the game play. I dislike FF VII Remake for the exact same reasons.

    Yes, the combat system is cool, yes it give the character's meaningful (yet simplistic) relationships, and it generally looks nice. But overall, the experience to me felt like it was a cheap knock off of FF VII.

    Almost like it was a high school play, it's nostalgia without the substance. (to continue the Star Wars analogy, just like the new movies)

    "Hey we need to get summons in here but we don't have the budget to do it right, so let's get some kid give the characters access to them through VR I guess?" Or, "Hey Final Fantasy has side quests, so we need side quests! Oh, we don't have time to do proper side quests? Um, how about we send the characters down the street to fight a robot and call it a side quest?" The game play all felt very cheap. Limited enemy encounters. Boring level designs. A beautiful yet dull slog that had one foor in the past and one foot in the present, but could do neither right.

    So after playing though the whole game and seeing the ending, I was thought Ok, whatever. I understood what they are doing, wanting to go off in other directions with the same characters is a cool idea. I wasn't upset, but I don't think I want to play another mediocre game to see what happens next.

    To hear that Interlude is middling is not surprising for all of the same reasons ZombiePie mentioned. I've resigned myself as a FF VII fan that the remakes are not for me.

    Maybe FF 16 will be good? Maybe? Please?

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    Kemuri07

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    I'm no #Nochanger. My issues with FF7R has nothing to do with it not following the original beat by beat, but that the changes they do offer do barely enough to change the way I look at these characters. Who cares if Jessie was an actress because it doesn't factor at all into the main game. The only thing Jessie's new "character development" does for her is that she's another female character that wants Cloud's dick. We get introduced to another SOLDIER member, but all it leads to is a boss fight and the characrer literally going "I guess I'll see ya in the sequel!!!" I guess my point is...well, what was the point of this game?

    If the object was to completely break open the doors of FF7, to make some type of commentary on remakes and nostalgia--why is literally most of this game just a retread of the original game? Why is it that we have to wait until FF7R2 until we actually, hopefully, see any of the ramifications of that games ending. It feels that even after finally playing REMAKE, that I'm in the exact same position I was before playing REMAKE. And while I understand the excitement some people have here over that ending..that would have to involve me trusting Square Enix to actually do something interesting with the story. And judging by their work for the last decade and a half, I don't have that much faith that the changes will be nothing more than excuses to continue profit off of FF7.

    I've always been against a remake because part o FF7's charms is that its a playstation game in the 1990s. There were things that JRPGS were doing that they just aren't doing anymore, and FF7 was very much a product of its time. I basically figured that a FF7 remake was something people "thought they wanted," but didn't actually want--and I still hold true to that.

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    Gundato

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    @nillock said:

    Yes, the combat system is cool, yes it give the character's meaningful (yet simplistic) relationships, and it generally looks nice. But overall, the experience to me felt like it was a cheap knock off of FF VII.

    Almost like it was a high school play, it's nostalgia without the substance. (to continue the Star Wars analogy, just like the new movies)

    "Hey we need to get summons in here but we don't have the budget to do it right, so let's get some kid give the characters access to them through VR I guess?" Or, "Hey Final Fantasy has side quests, so we need side quests! Oh, we don't have time to do proper side quests? Um, how about we send the characters down the street to fight a robot and call it a side quest?" The game play all felt very cheap. Limited enemy encounters. Boring level designs. A beautiful yet dull slog that had one foor in the past and one foot in the present, but could do neither right.

    Honestly, that is EXACTLY how I felt about ff7r's combat. It had so much potential but it also refused to really commit to it.

    My biggest issue being that I should be able to just rely on my AI party members to cast the right spells or even give them some DA:O style priorities. This is a "solved" problem. Instead it felt like I had to constantly switch over (thus instantly drawing ALL aggro) and do their spells before going back to whoever that encounter was designed for.

    And it was LOTS of stuff like that. They didn't want to remake FF7 but they wanted it to still look like it in ways that did both modern and classic gaming a disservice.

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    ZombiePie

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    #9 ZombiePie  Staff

    @efesell said:

    Start applying Kingdom Hearts style nonsense to "Remake" with each iteration as it becomes less and less of a relevant descriptor.

    I honestly think this is what was always going to happen. I think fans fantasy booking that there wouldn't be any form of Kingdom Hearts nonsense were just fooling themselves. It is also worth mentioning whenever older fans throw a fit that there are people who enjoy how stupidly crazy KH and late-era FF games get. And it's not like the original wasn't a convoluted mess itself.

    @epidehl said:

    I don't really follow online discourse, so I hadn't realized people were SO MAD about INTERmission, but I suppose I'm not surprised (I'll agree that it's too short and ends VERY abruptly) . Maybe it's an age thing (I would've been 14-17), but I liked a lot the Compilation of FFVII stuff. Hell, I repIayed Dirge and played Crisis Core for the first time in the lead up to this. I got HYPED that Nero was also in it, cause the trailer I saw only showed Weiss. And it's a cool boss fight! They used a bunch of his moves from Dirge! They look rad in HD! Also the Weiss fight fulfills my need for super bosses, much like the data fights and Yozora in the KH3 DLC. Wish they'd put more of that in the base game though.

    And lastly, XIII-2 rules. It's legit one of my favorite FF games, in spite of XIII being one of TWO (with XV) that I'd really say I dislike.

    I don't think enough people appreciate how Dirge might have the single best final level in the history of all Final Fantasy games. And I do not say that as a joke. I'm being honest. The final level of Dirge is the best goddamn shit. But more importantly, Crisis Core is a game that gets a lot of credit I don't think it entirely deserves. Its ending is a work of art, but playing it is just a pain.

    But I stand with you about 13-2. That game is good and it should have started the 13 universe.

    Another thing is that these potential purists are people who played the original back in 97 at this point are well into their 30's by this point. By the time this whole thing is wrapped up and finished sometime in the 2030's, are they even gonna give a shit by then? Are people gonna be sitting around at the ripe ol' age of 41 clamoring about how they didn't like the direction the remake went in? Make this series for new fans, I say.

    I do not want to image what internet trolls will look like ten years from now. I barely want to think about it now.

    I'm completely fine with them fucking with the story because that original game still exists and is easily playable. If they did this with, say,Suikoden II, the backlash would be merited.

    In the same vein, though, it is absolutely valid to hate Square's new action-focused combat in the FF games. I get it, Dragon Quest and Lost Sphear and whatever still exist, but I have played that FFVIIR demo and I think the combat is straight-up a fun killer. But they're going to do what they are going to do and Twitch and YouTube exist so... shrug. I'll buy the hell out of a smartly updated turn based Final Fantasy thing. FFVIIR, I will look at, say "Well, that Tifa background on my PS4 was killer," and hope they put out something as fun to play as it is to look at.

    It gets a lot better. I am not a huge fan of SE's previous attempts at real-time combat, but Remake is the best it has felt and it is so much better than the turn-based combat that is included in the game. It takes some getting used to, and I think the inventory management issues really come to a head by the end, but it's fun.

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    ThomasVivaldi

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    In the first Kingdom Hearts game, Nomura used "destiny" as a narrative framing device, telling Sora he'll open the door to the light. Its not really affecting the plot, it just makes a promise about what'll happen.

    The problem is when he starts using "destiny" or "fate" to explain plot development. I wouldn't call that sci-fi or fantasy tropes, just lazy writing.

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    ZombiePie

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    #13 ZombiePie  Staff

    In the first Kingdom Hearts game, Nomura used "destiny" as a narrative framing device, telling Sora he'll open the door to the light. Its not really affecting the plot, it just makes a promise about what'll happen.

    The problem is when he starts using "destiny" or "fate" to explain plot development. I wouldn't call that sci-fi or fantasy tropes, just lazy writing.

    Yo...

    Final Fantasy has been using the nebulous notion of "destiny" as a plot device since the PS1 era! How are you going to look at Final Fantasy VIII, Chrono Cross, or even the convoluted plot of OG Final Fantasy VII and tell me their plots are influenced by Kingdom Hearts? You can't blame everything on KH and Nomura.

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    ThomasVivaldi

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    @zombiepie:

    There's a difference between destiny as a plot device and destiny as plot, and that difference is some sci-fi/fantasy bullshit to back it up.

    Squall, et al. joining together while forgetting about being raised in the same orphanage is destiny as a plot device.

    Sora and Riku being trapped in a netherspace til Sora just decides to open a door that turns them into a space comet and spits them back out on an island barely rises to the level of deus ex machina.

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    Fluidk

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    I’m cool with them changing up the story of FF7 because it’s the most overrated game in history. The story in the original 7 is a badly translated mess from an original mess of a scenario that cobbled together FF6 and Chrono Trigger along with a cancelled game Sakaguchi was working on. It’s an abject mess created by people so talented that it looks intentional.

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    Nodima

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    I'm finally getting to Intermission - put in about two hours, beat the big chameleon thing - and I think all the complaints about what this thing is are both totally warranted and kinda silly. FF VII is a huge waste of time with some amazing music and a fun combat system - and that's pretty much exactly what the remake is! At least it keeps you on your toes and adds a new benefit - looking pretty - to the mix. I'm actually a little sad that the busted textures on NPCs and environmental details got fixed, if you go back and look at the thread on these forums about that I'm pretty sure I outright praised the "PS2 wall meets PS3 NPC face meets PS6 Cloud model(?!?!)" look of the game. Once it really got to fucking around with memory and nostalgia I practically wished it was intentional, a Kojima-esque parlor trick from people not quite clever enough to commit to the bit.

    And I think this DLC really does a good job of reminding people of just how much meandering and ambition half-realized was in the DNA of FF VII back in the day. Just about everything so far has been an excuse to try out a new game mechanic and sometimes they seem to be throwing things at you just to say they did some work on a thing. For me that seems pretty on brand with what this game was at the time - but I'm also someone who slots FF VII in the lower ranks of the 3D era of Final Fantasy (as a story!) anyway, so what do I care if they juggle it up? I never engaged with the extended universe stuff so it's all new to me.

    My biggest complaint is that they totally designed this DLC to be played alongside the main game and it's pretty hard to dig into when you haven't played the game itself in nearly two years. I loved this combat system and replayed the game on Hard (a decent chunk of it anyway) but this thing is kinda kicking my ass.

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    someoneproud

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    #17  Edited By someoneproud

    I enjoyed my time with remake but I doubt I'll play Intermission or a sequel, It's probably the best spin-off game for FFVII but that's really not saying much. The combat and characters were fun but the music was hit and miss and the story was dumb and incomplete. I can't really see them doing anything different with the sequel so meh.

    At least the main-line FFs are looking pretty good atm, XIV's great and XVI seems promising so I can't say I'm upset.

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    Dareitus

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    FF7R has you literally kill the physical embodiment of your expectations and people are still going "But my expectations!?!?!?!?!"

    Why would you even buy Intergrade at that point?

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