@zombiepie Good luck! I've never actually read the original theory but I do remember watching a YouTube video about it. From that video it looks like some of your predictions are correct. I can't let you do this alone so I'll also read through the theory as well.

@zombiepie: You should be okay. I read about that theory earlier in the year and I don't remember it being anything too crazy or hard to wrap my head around. I thought it was an interesting read and that was really it. I didn't see much merit to the claim.

Best of luck, but I suspect you'll be disappointed by the SQUALL IS DEAD fan theory. At the time, it struck me as the Indoctrination Theory of its day - an intricate web of denial with the sole purpose of shielding people from the realization that stories can, sometimes, disappoint you. The weird part is that this was before the advent of post game DLC, so there was no accompanying hope that the "real" FFVIII was on its way. Just some people covering their ears and shouting "lalalalala," pretending the sky hasn't fallen.

The RINOA IS ULTIMECIA fan theory is waaay more fun!

@zombiepie: Yeah, it's kind of a cool read, but ultimately it would be giving the writers far too much credit. I mean, there's a lot of thought put into the theory, and one would assume if there was that much thought put into the ending, a similar amount of thought would have been reflected somewhere else in the game. Like having actual character arcs, or a party motivation beyond "we all grew up together until we magically forgot. Because GFs."

Finally found the time to read this blog and it's a fun read as always. Already looking forward to your thoughts on the actual ending.

This was kinda were Laguna as a character and everything surrounding him fell apart for me too, since the game basically turns on itself and now depicts him as a selfish idiot (instead of a selfless one like previously shown). It's a ruinous "twist".

Also, if you really want to play another JRPG from a somewhat big franchise that makes no fucking sense whatsoever, you should play Star Ocean 3 or 4.

I'm aware you already know parts of 3s ending, but it's still worth... experiencing for yourself in all its glory. 4 is just straight up insane pretty much from start to finish and features the most annoying cast of characters in any game ever (along with the worst set of English voice actors ever, kay?), which is quite a feat. The combat is actually great though.

Oh and have fun with the Squall's dead theory, it's appropriately dumb for a FFVIII related thing.

@zombiepie: That is one heck of a rabbit hole your about to be jumping into. Fan theories can get really...really...REALLY twisted sometimes. I honestly wish you luck. I pray you come out with some of your sanity in tact my friend.

I seem to remember reading a little of that fan theory and thinking it was totally crazy, which probably makes the comparisons to the Mass Effect 3 "Indoctrination Theory" well-founded. Ultimately, people with too much time on their hands can twist anything to a greater symbolic purpose than what the author actually intended. As an English major, I am well aware of this.

That said, neither of those hold a candle to that utterly insane essay talking about how George Lucas is actually a genius and the Star Wars prequels and the original trilogy are reflections of taoist ideas or something. I've been trying to find a link to it, but there are too many other fan theories I'd have to wade through first.

@arbitrarywater: I particularly like the part where Jar-Jar Binks has been the ultimate Sith Lord all along.

Welp, I'm sorry. All storytelling is over because that theory is too good.

Great. Now I'm down that hole.

@zombiepie: Why would you do that to yourself?

I gotta say, dude makes some convincing arguments. Still an insane theory though.

OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I GOTTEN MYSELF INTO!

Alright so let's break this down.

The website that I used:http://squallsdead.com/

How the website "welcomes" you:

Welcome! "Squall's Dead" discusses the possibility of Final Fantasy VIII's storyline covertly revolving around the death of its main character early on, a theory which - so far - appears to be undiscussed on the internets. We will attempt to explain the basis of the theory, and argue why it may be true. At the end of the article we concede that there is no real "proof", merely suggestions and hints. However, we hope this analysis will add meaning to the game for all players - perhaps refreshing its value over a decade since the game's release - and inspire a discussion as it did between us.

Bonus points for at least having the common decency to "concede" that what you have created is a fan theory and lacks any real "proof." What I am decidedly NOT OKAY with is the idea that: 1) The author believes that their theory is underrepresented on the internet, and 2) This fan theory ADDS VALUE to the game that it seeks to extrapolates upon.

To the first point, NO your fan theory isn't underrepresented. It is not underrepresented BECAUSE THIS GAME WAS MADE IN 1999! Admittedly this theory was originally published in 2008, but that is still NINE WHOLE YEARS after the original game was released. The internet's collective mind-power isn't discussing or racking its brain against Final Fantasy VIII because they just "gave up" trying to find the truth behind FF8's ending! It stopped talking about FF8 because three or four Final Fantasy games were released by the time this fan theory was published.

Then we have the second point...which JESUS! I do not even know where to begin when it comes to tackling the idea that a fan theorist thinks their idea "adds value" to the original game. Certainly yes, all fan theories essentially are based on this premise, otherwise they would not exist in the first place. A fan theory exists because some portion of the audience does not like the original execution of a product that they enjoyed. However, now that I see it spelled out in front of me...I cannot help but feel a little cynical.

The Meat and Potatoes of the Theory

The Theory

At the end of disc one, Squall and Friends face Edea on a parade float in Deling City. After the fight, when Edea seems defeated, she conjures an enormous ice shard and propels it through Squall’s chest. Squall stumbles back and falls off the platform. He sees Rinoa above, reaching to him as he falls. Squall closes his eyes and dies. The entire remaining game time, from the beginning of disc two to the second half of the ending movie, is a dream.

Alright I got that. I knew that Disc One was universally agreed to be the strongest point of Final Fantasy VIII judging from my own experiences, as well as the input that I got from my blog series. This being the starting point makes sense. However, how else does the theory lay itself out?

A dream?

Uh huh. A dream, a fantasy, a vision, or whatever you want to call it. The “dream” is basically an extension of the “your life flashes before your eyes” concept. The entire dream takes only a matter of seconds, but for Squall is passes in real time. For Squall, it’s about the endless possibilities he could have seen realized. Squall explores the questions that were raised on the first disc but he was not able to answer in his lifetime. These questions include, but are not limited to:

Who is the Sorceress Edea? What are her goals and motivation? Where do her powers come from? Why was Seifer in the parade with Edea when he was reported executed? Who was the girl (Ellone) that Squall and Quistis saw in the Garden training center? Who is Laguna and why did Squall, Selphie, and Zell all have the same dream about him? And, most importantly, who is Squall? Who were his parents? Why did they leave him at the orphanage? Where does he come from, and what would he have done with his life had he not died?

First off, don't be condescending when you write a fan theory. I know what a dream is, and I also understand the premise of the "IT WAS ALL A DREAM," plot twist. Also, do you want to know how I feel about the "IT WAS ALL A DREAM" Plot Twist?

IT FUCKING SUCKS 99% OF THE TIME!

So great work fan theorist! You replaced a crappy ending/plot twist...with an entirely different type of lazy-ass crappy storytelling. I get it that whoever wrote this really did not enjoy Final Fantasy VIII past the first disc, but the basis of your theory is ten times worse than just accepting the ridiculousness of the orphanage reveal. Now if the only way that you can preserve the sanctity of your favorite part of a game is to essentially play "the oldest trick in the book" when it comes to plot twists...you most likely are wrong. Time and time again I used the term "plot by convenience" when detailing the events of Final Fantasy VIII's story. Do you want to know what the ultimate example of "plot by convenience," is?

IT WAS ALL DREAM!

If this is the only way that you can reasonably support your fan theory, I'm sorry but your theory sucks. If that is honestly how you are going to explain why nothing makes sense in Final Fantasy VIII...I'll just accept that my game was written by people that did not know what they were doing.

Supporting Evidence

1. You've become just a memory

In the latter half of disc one, two conversations take place concerning Seifer’s fate and if he will be executed for attacking the president of Galbadia. During these sections of dialogue, Squall muses to himself on the existential qualities of death. “Will they talk about me this way if I die too? Squall was this and that. Using the past tense, saying whatever they want? So this is what death is all about…”In this manner Squall considers his own death and what little difference it will make for the world. This serves as foreboding, an ominous suggestion to the viewer that ill times are ahead.

Here Squall states the obvious: Shit happens. People die, and there’s nothing you can do about it. That’s just the way the world is. “Everything doesn’t work out the way you want it to.” Not only is this foreshadowing, but it’s also contrary to what some consider a central theme to Final Fantasy VIII’s story: fate. (We’ll come back to this point later.)

When you stop and think about it, Squall's musings about death in the latter half of disc one come across as foreshadowing that he is destined to essentially "make his mark in history" in his upcoming fight against Ultimecia. His battle with a time sorceress is literally and figuratively speaking making Squall immortal. He traversed through time in order to save the universe, and as a result he will be remembered for many generations.

Next, I want to go back to the point about Final Fantasy VIII being narratively different from previous Final Fantasy games. Let us stop for a moment and think about the actual historical context of Final Fantasy VIII. The team behind FF8 was, relatively speaking, the same team that created FF7, a game that to this day people believe is one of the greatest games ever made. Even if you read that sentence and feel an ounce of cynicism you have to at least concede that FF7 was IMPORTANT to both the video game industry and Square.

Now I am an outsider here so I could be entirely wrong on this, but here's my rebuttal. The men and women behind FF8 knew that they could not make another FF7. Hence, they really wanted to change things up in FF8. The higher-ups at Square could not be fucked to care because FF7 made them so much money that they were willing to humor the development team's desire to innovate with relatively little interference. I mean look at how Final Fantasy VIII actually PLAYS and compare that to Final Fantasy VII or any of the previous entries in the franchise.

So what does that have to do with Final Fantasy VIII's story? Here's the deal: the desire to do something different and novel translated to all aspects of Final Fantasy VIII. Why JUST innovate the gameplay when you also have the creative freedom to innovate the story and thematics as well? The "messiness" of Final Fantasy VIII's story? I simply blame that on a creative team trying to tell a story that they simply were not experienced enough in telling. I cannot chastise them for trying their hardest, but time and time again the writing just proved that whoever wrote Final Fantasy VIII had no idea how to tell a science fiction and teenage romance story to save their lives. That aside, they tried because they wanted to do something that they had not done before.

2. My wound? …No wound…?

Apparently Squall’s healthy and good-to-go. It is never again referenced directly in the entire game, nor is it ever explained what happened to his wound or how he survived. And remember, a piece of ice half as long as Squall himself went through his chest and came out the other side. This is no mere scratch that is so carelessly tossed aside. Most players seem to assume that Edea healed Squall to full health for the purpose of interrogation, but why would she? Seifer knows that Squall is no great captain from Balamb Garden. He’s no more privy to top secret information than are the other three. If Edea wanted to know more about SeeD, she should be interrogating Quistis, who’s been a SeeD for three years and who has been teaching SeeDs for one year. Squall has been a SeeD for all of two weeks. Why go through all the effort of killing him just to bring him to full health when he’s obviously a threat to her?

Do you want to know my REALLY CYNICAL REBUTTAL TO THIS?

Cynical Rebuttal: If the creative team behind Final Fantasy VIII really had wanted to have "Squall is actually dead," be a part of the story, then they would have had that spelled out for the audience.

Nothing about Final Fantasy VIII's story features any semblance of finesse. Remember that these are the same people who actually wrote the dialogue for Selphie and Irvine. Also, this is still the same creative team behind Squall's relationship arc with Rinoa. So according to this theory, SOMEHOW ALL OF THE SUDDEN the writers discovered how to use foreshadowing, BUT were NOT able to create a relationship arc that made any sense. Sure I guess that makes perfect sense!

So what's my actual response to the Squall recovers from a mortal wound? The storytellers did not care, and needed him to not die for the purposes of their story. Or if we want to play by FF8's own rules, Seifer needed Squall to be alive in order to discover more about his "destiny" to defeat Ultimecia, and how SeeD/The Gardens have prepared him for that destiny. Ultimecia also could have wanted to keep Squall alive to see if she could discover more information about his sister, Ellone. All I will say is that if you are playing a game where the ultimate villain is a time bending sorceress, all bets are off.

3. “I don’t know what’s going on anymore!”

As some of you may have noticed, the plot takes a few unanticipated turns after the end of disc one. At first the transition is rather subtle. When plot twists are introduced, they are fully explained and are not in conflict with existing plot information. In fact, the more you learn about this world, the more everything seems to make perfect sense. Everything fits together in an elaborate but perfectly designed puzzle. Everything connects and everything is related. And yet it still seems absolutely ridiculous.

The story takes on a dream-like quality that centers itself on Squall and everything Squall has ever wanted. The dream goes on to explain everything Squall wanted to know, but it also treads through the realm of egoist fantasy.It spins off into a world of impossible where monsters come from the moon and Squall, merely a newly recruited cadet, goes on to save our world as we know it from an evil sorceress from the future. And he gets the girl. Let’s look at some specific examples.

"Egoist fantasies?" Oh no you didn't just use Freudian terminology to make yourself look smart! Also, would anyone really describe Disc Two as being "dream-like?" I would prefer to call it an amalgam of different genres and ideas that don't make any logical sense. Personally I enjoy how the author uses the story point of how the monsters in FF8 come from the moon as proof that this fan theory has to be true. THAT is simply crossing the line! It may say "Fantasy" in the title, but there's only so much "fantasy" that one can tolerate!

Because you know...it's not like the previous Final Fantasy before VIII had a villain that was a fucking test tube baby carrying around a severed alien head that came from outer space.

One word: MOOMBAS.

As soon as I saw those red lion Pokémons running around on the screen, I knew there was something strange happening.

The first disc had a fairly high level of realism despite the fantasy and low sci-fi topics present. The characters were all human, and outside of “monsters” there were no unearthly creatures to be seen. Rinoa had a dog that attacks for her at times, as earthly dogs are known to do. But there weren’t any fluffy feline creatures running around yelling “Laguna! Laguna!”

Did we play the same fucking game? How is there being a school that is training kids to be mercenaries any LESS RIDICULOUS than Squall recovered from being impaled by an icicle, or that there are walking lions? BUT IT GETS EVEN MORE INTERESTING!

The moombas and the Griever’s appearance in the final battle with Ultimecia can therefore be explained as manifestations of Squall’s mind.

What? The moombas do not even look close to what the lion symbol looks like on Squall's sword?!

b. Fushururu...3-SECONDS-ARE-UP

Okay, we already covered the Moombas and the Shumi, but I still wanted to say:

Wtf?! The Master of Garden is a giant yellow sloth alien creature? You gotta be kidding me!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Alright I get it now! The author simply could not accept how stupid FF8 was...and developed a fan theory to essentially make the story "work." This is hilarious.

Do you want to know how I responded to FF8's stupid moments? I laughed and then chalked it up to bad writing, because that is exactly what it is.

c. Perhaps it’s fate.

And we’re back to the fate question. What I wanted to point out on the subject of fate and destiny and all that hullabaloo is simply this: the subject of fate does not come up until after the end of disc one.

Fate is the reason why everyone in your party apparently knew each other as children. Fate is the reason why everything falls into place like a perfect fantasy.

Again...the author CANNOT accept that the writers are to blame for creating a scattershot story where they did not know what they were doing. Yes, I get that the orphanage sequence in FF8 is stupid and comes out of nowhere. That said it's not like Disc One is this narrative masterpiece to hold in especially high regard either. In Disc One you are essentially in a college for child soldiers. Your first school activity is to fight a demon in a lava cave. After that your big exam is to INVADE A COUNTRY! Guess what? All FF8 really did was trade one type of ridiculousness for another!

d. Just stay close to me.

Speaking of a perfect fantasy, the romantic storyline of Final Fantasy VIII is just that. The romantic plotline, which many fans consider to the most successful element of the game, is completely fabricated for Squall’s personal satisfaction.

I love this. I love this so much.

Firstly, the most successful aspects of Final Fantasy VIII are a card minigame and the music. Secondly...are we really using the fact that Squall and Rinoa's relationship makes no sense as evidence that this is all a dream?

I personally expected Seifer to have been brain-washed or mind-controlled, and I spent a majority of the game waiting for Seifer to “snap out of it” and join Squall’s team, but he never does. The story just accepts that Seifer is now evil and must be killed. It’s so simple and, well, convenient.

Seifer, who was Squall’s personal tormenter and rival in school, has become a major villain to the world and all of his friends. And since Seifer is out of the way, his would-be girlfriend--Rinoa--is now single and apparently falling for Squall though she never took an interest in him before.

FUCKING WHAT THE FUCK? Look, I am right there with you that Seifer just all of the sudden becomes this moronic Bond villain for no good reason, but that happens to a ton of characters in video games and movies. However, we have a term for that, and that term is "plot by convenience." When you have writers attempting something that they have not done before they use plot by convenience to justify their story twists.

Oh and by the way...what was the PAL boxart for Final Fantasy VIII?

Oh and what's the game's logo that you are greeted with whenever you boot up the game?

Squall and Rinoa were going to get into a relationship whether you liked it or not! Your best hope was for the depiction of that relationship to be emotionally taut and touching. Of those two, you kind of got one, and only after having to deal with a bunch of bullshit!

Oh and I'm going to skip the analysis of the ending to FF8, because I have some things to say about that ending. Yes it is a nightmare, but the best rebuttal that the fan theory can muster is "THIS IS SO STUPID THAT IT CAN'T POSSIBLE BE THE TRUE ENDING!" Which I again find hilarious. The theory then goes onto to compare Final Fantasy VIII, to Vanilla Sky, which I can best describe as being "wanting."

Conclusion

The truth is, I don’t think there is a substantial amount of evidence to conclude whether or not the writers intended for the audience to interpret the game in this fashion. I choose to believe that this is how the game was intended to be understood because, to me, the game makes no sense otherwise. Everything that happens to the characters after the first disc is ridiculous. The ending is like recapping the game on acid. There has to be something more to the story than a simple ‘Hero Takes All’ plot.

AND THERE WE GO EVERYONE!

They just couldn't accept that the story is just a stupid mess. Man I really wish I felt that impassioned about the story for a game.

MY FINAL CONCLUSION

PEOPLE ARE CRAZY!

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Dear God what have I become?

Can any of you help me from my madness? @thatpinguino@mento@arbitrarywater@sgtsphynx@lawgamer@encephalon@shaunk@riostarwind@naoiko@shindig

Like what am I doing with my life right now?

I reiterate, why would you do that to yourself?

You know @zombiepie, I'd really like to read a blog series from you about FF9, as I think you would genuinely enjoy that game's story and themes based upon your commentary about FF8. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this intellectual flagellation you've inflicted upon yourself, but I'd like to see you get a win in for once. An upper after this twisted and bizarre downer.

Then I want to read about your playthrough of Chrono Cross, so I can watch your newly-mended psyche break into a thousand pieces.

@jesna: There are times that i start Final Fantasy 9. And then i see the ropejump minigame. And i keep doing that for 20 minutes. And then i get frustrated and stop playing Final Fantasy 9 :D

Oh hey I didn't even notice you posted this update. Time to put that finishing dot on the "i".

Yep, told you it's an appropriately stupid theory for FFVIII.

@zombiepie: Welcome to the other side. The "Squall is dead" theory is and always was a load of nonsense. I'm not sure if the person who wrote it genuinely believes what they're writing or if they where just looking for attention. I think that the best they could come up with to fix a shitty story was another shitty story shows that the original shitty story is in fact so shitty that it can't be fixed.

The things that entertain me most about the fan theory are that people say he had to of died because of the ice spear, in a game where the characters are routinely frozen, speared, set on magical fire and electrocuted. The fucking moon part being too out there for a game that has a boss who can control time and space, a bunch of GFs who live in caves and get captured like pokemon.

I've never gotten why people just couldn't accept that it was a bad story. I'd love to have seen the creative process for this. Strings and pins everywhere. "Look!!! These creatures totally look like a the lion that Squall has on his gunblade right!??!?! They couldn't be real!! IT'S ALL A DREAM!! GIANT YELLOW MEN!??! DREAM!"

@zombiepie you really should play FFIX if you want to see the best of FF's story telling. It has all of the sincerity of FFVIII, but it has way fewer plot holes and petulant characters. It also deals with themes that I personally find much more moving. Or just play Chrono Cross and go mad. CC has the same strengths and weaknesses as FFVIII (combat and music are great while the story is a mess of sci-fi nonsense) except it has over 30 playable characters.

I haven't actually read all of the Squall is Dead theory because I hate video game conspiracy theories. They are always terrible and they rarely improve my understanding a game. However, fan theories are really great signposts for terrible storytelling. If some portion of the fan base felt the need to invent a new reading of a game's story, then the original story was likely terrible or terribly told.

@dudeglove: The only part of that I can really answer for you is that Galbadia is part of the Dollet Empire which went for military prowess while the other empire, Ester, was the science power (because these two are obviously exclusive). The reason Galbadia is still militant is because Sorceress Adel (of Ester) made an attempt at world domination. In an effort to combat Adel, Galbadia went a bit totalitarian and invaded it's neighbours to force conscription on them.

Whenever the game talks about "The Sorceress War" that's what they're talking about. And even though the war is over by the time the game starts, Galbadia is still a military power because it uses it's visible power to control it's people. And Esther only exists in a bubble following "The Sorceress War" because Laguna who became it's President said "Peace! We out!"

That's just the typical, clichéd rival archetype relationship at work, which you can see in many games/movies/books/etc. They hate it each other, but also respect each other, they want to murder each other, but not really, because they kinda need the other (if just for their ego). It's stupid, but it's one of the few things in the game that honestly make some kind of sense.

@zombiepie: Fuck if I know dude. Wasn't reading any theories for anything from that PS1 era of games. Of course I draw a fine line between a theory and fan fiction and some of this stuff reads more like the latter. All of this is false based on the final 10 seconds of the end credits (Squall and Rinoa are caught ON FILM at the big Balamb victory party) only a game story THIS dumb could make people want to pick it apart to this extent. I personally don't understand the confusion, the game has "Fantasy" right in the title. There's fucking magic and science and aliens all over the place.

It almost felt like they were trying to make a Disney princess movie just by the way these damn cut scenes are directed. In a weird way almost all Final Fantasy games are directed like that. Unfortunately Square wasn't Disney back then and they never will be. They got the closest to that vibe with FFIX and had a more jovial tone to the art style and dialogue for what was yet another crazy Final Fantasy plot. However they definitely watered down the mechanics a bit compared to FFVIII. Localization had improved by that point but I think the problem was that these FF stories, good or not, are just not very accessible. I think after 9 they were just like "Fuck making a story that makes sense. More systems! More mechanics! More wavy hair!" They were probably humbled big time after fucking up with trying to make The Spirits Within a thing. Remember how that went?

@mezmero: I dunno if I'd say localization had improved all that much. Between the terrible voice acting and the following image I'd say it stayed about the same.

@zombiepie: Jesus, man. Your breakdown of the squall is dead thing could have stood as its own blog.

I don't know man...FF8 is kind of booty. DQ8, now that's a good old fashioned video game. But I don't know how easy that is to play now. I think it's on 3DS and I think PS2 emulators are pretty good at this point.

And really FF8 is a shit show but I'd rather see you tackle a better game like Lost Odyssey, Vagrant Story, Xenogears, or FF12. But none of those games are on PC so not sure what to tell you. There is always the crazy sink hole of SNES RPGs like Seiken Densetsu 3, Live A Live, The Twisted Tales of Spike McFang, and so much more.

Oh god and I haven't heard someone mention ME3 indoctrination in a long time. It did not at all make the story/game "better", even if some of its points were totally valid; but it's terrible, inane points did highlight the game's shortcomings for sure.

@zombiepie Uhhh yeah that theory went places huh. The problem with theories like this is that it is usually really easy to poke holes in it. The best fan theories are usually the ones that have a ton of facts to back them up. Which would also take way to long to write so we mostly have half baked theories like Squall is dead.

You continue to sound like a man that should be playing something other than more Final Fantasy.

@jesus_phish: Well I was referring to the jump from 8 to 9 specifically. I thought it was smart that they tried giving all the characters a variety of colloquialisms to help make them feel distinct within that world and it didn't hurt that the designs had a deceptively detailed quality to them that payed homage to the old FF games. In FFVIII almost everybody feels like they're written with the exact same voice in my head. Things probably got even more convoluted for localization when voice acting became a factor in PS2 games. So now they had to not only translate all the text and UI but also had to make a script as well. That series is just plain weird. Beyond FFVI the only consistent thing about that franchise is the inconsistency...and the bestiary.

@dan_citi: You just had to mention DQ8, didn't you? Now I'm sad that I don't have a system that can play DQ8 anymore :(