Thank you for your gracious and non-defensive response to my sharpness. You're reasonable and affable. I admire that and am less frustrated now with similar responses from the community thanks to you.
I actually played 'Heavy Rain' for the first time right before 'Detroit' came out and I thought it I might face genre fatigue, but really the opposite was true. There's something really intriguing about this kind of involved interactive storytelling that kept me engaged and immersed in the world. Interactive drama is a unique medium that seems to suffer from very specific problems across its entire ilk. Quantic Dream, Telltale, Bethesda, and Bioware have all been facing similar issues when it comes to telling stories where making choices can change outcomes. I definitely think that games like this could benefit from a full team of talented writers, but I suppose it's not a hard and fast rule. 'Detroit' appears to just have David Cage, while Telltale and Bioware games have multiple writers. Mass Effect 2 is one of my all time favorite games because it has actually gameplay as well as a compelling interactive story, and I think it's the best example of how this genre can be done right. Quantic Dream and Telltale could learn from classic Bioware, but overall I'd say 'Detroit' does fine doing its own thing. It's entertainment value was validated overall for me. I was worthy of my time and money. It wasn't flawless, and I wish it was better in a few areas.
Some of my problems with 'Detroit':
a. A lack of worldbuilding content. I wish I could explore the world with more writing via background conversations, conversations with NPCs, newspaper clippings, police files, journal entries, android memories, etc. The game has most of these things, but I think it's super minimal. The Mass Effect games are really fleshed out through these kinds of things and I could explore it all to as great an extent as I wanted, but 'Detroit' really limits this potential. Some parts of the game seemed more full than others in that respect, but others felt super empty and lacking. Having a codex or some sort of reference database would have been super appropriate, especially for Connor. Many times through the game I wish I could have talked to certain characters, and other characters more fully, and examined details more fully and talk to characters about those details. I'm sure for pacing and other reasons they decided not to do that (also, it doesn't seem to be part of their modus operandi), but I felt the world building was incomplete because of it. Game of Thrones is a great series because you can continually glean new information about the world every time you reread it. There's so much lore to it that it feels like a fully realized world. 'Detroit' squeezes by with limited info sprinkles, but I think it suffers for it.
b. Going off of my first point, during certain conversations I would only be given so much time or opportunities to ask questions and explore dialogue options. Most of the time I could explore a couple of dialogue options before the game would force the story along to the next part. It may be argued that a more realistic experience would be similar, but it was very unsatisfying for my interviews to be cut short and instead broke my immersion.
c. A bunch of times I was distraught because I found I had decided things without really knowing what my options were or that I was supposed to even make a choice. These kinds of games encourage multiple play throughs because of branching paths, and maybe it's the authentic choice-making experience, but I think these games can entertain gamer playstyles better.
d. There are multiple examples of careless writing. I'm thinking of one offender near the end of the game where I instantly thought of glaring solution to a situation and it wasn't ever presented. I know there are others, but I think these are a result of David Cage doing most of it himself. I think he could have used more people to challenge and edit his ideas.
I think 'Detroit' is a fantastic step forward for Quantic Dream, and I definitely think it's worth a play. Maybe wait until it's cheaper and give it a go. I just played 'Heavy Rain' nearly a decade after its release, and even having the reveal of that game spoiled for me, I enjoyed the ride nonetheless. I think trophies were the one thing I really struggled with that game because they were influencing how I made my decisions. I rather ignored them for 'Detroit' because of that. I'd say the writing quality is actually kind of similar, so if you don't like the writing in QD games so far, maybe you won't like this one?
I'd recommend the game, but to revisit the original points:
3. I'll admit I'm not an authority and can't empathize from personal experience, but from that position it presents itself as a very relatable and engaging situation. A lot of stories have fictional and uncommon situations but they're still relatable and engaging.
4. People have fragile egos and body images, but I don't think the path to strength is to destroy images of perfection and accept unhealthy lifestyles for the sake of satisfying the status quo. I'd say it's mostly porn, not standards of beauty, are what's ultimately responsible for objectification. Standards for beauty are prevalent in the natural world, and media does create a disconnect between appearance and personality as you suggest, but that's where we need to educate one another on the distinctions. It makes sense to me in the discussion of androids that we would create them in the likeness of our ideal beauty because that's what we wish we were not who we are. It'd be unbelievable if the game featured androids that looked like everyday folks unless that was a recognizable theme in the game (I don't think it is). It's unreasonable to expect the game to weave those threads when it's basically one guy with other goals in his writing.
6. I think perfect writing, though unobtainable, would be able to gain complete success. Perfect writing, I think, would appeal to most people with universal themes, relatable depth, undeniable truth, and unprecedented creativity (real inventiveness is super unlikely). It's conceptually possible though improbable and tangential to the conversation. Heh.
I think writing can be judged objectively, but very minimally so. Most of the time it's subjectively judged. In 'Heavy Rain' when Ethan is calling out for his sons, I wouldn't say it's bad writing so much as annoying if you spam the 'x' button and/or in the actor's inflection. Yet I've seen people attack this as "bad" writing which is puzzling to me. A father would most certainly call out his son's name in those situations. A subjective opinion doesn't make some objectively bad. Objectively bad writing would be based rather on its grammar, structure, and spelling. From there it's debatable. Someone might think the flow is bad and another someone might think the flow is good. Who is right? I don't think there is really a way to say definitively what is objectively good or bad for certain aspects of creative endeavors. It's hard to put into words, but I can agree with you in a sense. There are things that are convincingly bad...such as 'Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 5' and those instances are hard to account for in my argument. But hey, maybe it comes down to the semantics of the quantifiers. What does 'good' mean and what does 'bad' mean? I think bad and good are almost too definitive to be fully functional descriptions of impermanent things.
Anyway, you're a chill dude. I'm looking forward to a response from you.
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