The Reviews Are In

It's really interesting hearing everyone's different opinions on this! I was expecting a near-unanimous chorus of praise or something.

Personally, 30 hours in, I love it. It's an early GOTY contender for me, and the open world really changes the entire feel of the game. If you hate the combat in these games, this will do nothing to change your mind, but if you've been sitting on the fence for years... this might be the tipping point? The open world is so much fun to explore, and it gives you an incredibly handy release valve on any frustration or grinding on a single boss you'd otherwise experience in these games. Sick of fighting Margit? Go off in the other direction on the map and find some cool gear. Sick of an area? I have a list of about 30 things I want to do and places to explore at any time in my head, and I love it. Despite its lack of waypoints, I never feel directionless in Elden Ring.

In general, it feels a lot friendlier. Being able to summon in pretty much any difficult encounter you want is very convenient, and I find myself doing it all the time despite having been a "grr I'm not going to use a shield, I'm just going to dodge and parry perfectly" purist in the past. Between those and the mounted combat, From have an excuse to up the enemy count, and it feels chaotic and hectic in a way these games rarely do.

Also, re: the general direction of Breath of the Wild exploration versus Ubisoft question marks -- I'm here for Breath of the Wild and Elden Ring 100%. A series of question marks visible from the get go (or from the tower) is a series of checkboxes and busywork I feel compelled to complete for Broken Gamer Brain reasons. A dense open world with none of that lets me stumble across a lot of stuff, be surprised by what I find and be unbothered by what I don't. If this game had a UI or quest log like that, I'd probably like it less. It'd still be great, because the content is fantastic, but the time spent travelling between goals/areas would be less rewarding. Also, in general, and this might strike some as heresy, I find Elden Ring to be better than Breath of the Wild -- it's a similar style of exploration, but instead of the same boss or look of dungeon at the end of every shrine or temple, there's a new boss (or at least similar boss with new abilities) every time. Even the Gaols, and the Catacombs, some of the most copy and paste content in the game, have different enemies to keep them interesting. (On that note, did anyone feel like the stone robotic cat warrior at the end of a couple catacombs was an homage to the Guardian Trials of Strength in Zelda? Very similar robotic sword swings, down to the halting vertical chop and sword sweep.)

@lapsariangiraff: Yea, the cat thing gave me super BotW vibes too.

@efesell: I've come to accept horseback is the best way to deal with the dragons. No sense in trying to go at them on my own two feet. It's just asking to get my ass kicked before the fight truly begins.

@rubberbabybuggybumpers: The fire attacks kind of force you onto the horse and then whenever you hop off to deal damage the speed with which they can lift off and start scorching the ground right beneath them makes that real risky.

I was trying to get a stagger on the first dragon I fought by doing charge attacks on his head but, unsurprisingly, the camera is still not great when fighting large enemies and I just kept dying to the fire. Eventually I also gave up and just hacked away at his ankles on horseback.

I think I have around 17 hours played so far on PS5. Not sure if the timer ticks on while the console is in rest mode.

It’s not ”one of the best games ever” for me, yet at least, but it’s definitely the most enjoyment I’ve gotten out of a From game, or probably any souls-like game I’ve tried so far.

It still kicks my ass regularly and I could be telling a different tale, if I couldn’t have brought a summoned npc and companions into the Margit fight. That *might* still change with later boss encounters, but at least I can do something else for a while if I hit a wall, rather than run back and forth through the same area.

Perhaps eventually there’ll only be places left that will annihilate me no matter how hard I try, but at least I’m pretty sure that the game has well justified it’s price for me at that point.

Also having a really mobile mount (that can also be summoned quite freely and can do a double jump) does make a big difference, as well as the ability to fast travel without any type of cost to it.

Another day, another From game that I try. I think "maybe this'll be the one." But it isn't.

Some day I'll learn that these games just aren't for me. I think they're ugly (graphics technical AND artistic), I don't like the way they control, I think they text is too small, and I'm just not a Real Gamer enough to want to bother with all the little nuances that make these games "great."

Why do I keep wasting my money and my time trying to like these games? Because I do have a history of hearing the overwhelming praise of certain games and certain types of games and needing to see for myself, only to actually fall in love with a game or genre that I had previously written off as not for me. Hades, Into the Breach, and Neir: Automata are games that were overwhelmingly praised that I forced myself to play to see what the fuss was about, only to discover some of my favorite games of all time.

But then there's God of War (2018), Control, and Deathloop, which were games that I was mystified about why people thought they were so great and couldn't understand what people saw in them, and suspected that just maybe I was playing a different game entirely from what other people played. And I'm afraid this game, much like Demon's Souls, the first Dark Souls, and Bloodborne before it, falls into this category. It's just not for me. And that's fine, it doesn't have to be. But it would sure make paying attention to video game discourse a lot less insufferable, as well as give me way less buyer's remorse (note to self- this is why Gamefly exists).

I'll grant that I'm just about two hours into this and maybe it'll wind up being a situation where I just chose the wrong class for my skill level (I went with Samurai) but I'm loving the atmosphere of the game and seeing random things and going, "oh, no, not today..." like a whole ass caravan led by two giants towing a boxcar of some kind, it's just that I can't find anything I can actually do. I'm trying to just turn around and try something else the moment I get a little flustered, mostly because I'd like to find some gear or an area that clearly feels like a starter zone so I can farm some levels (I know there are already some guides for this out there, but I'm trying to "stay pure" for now) and keep coming up short. Either I'm getting poisoned to hell, swarmed by a bunch of 7 foot knights, ambushed by a giant while a longbow regiment snipes me to death...

I think one thing that I really clicked with Demon's Souls PS5, Bloodborne and even my much complained about Sekiro is that they're designed with a clear progression in terms of both where the player should go and how the player can get better. You find pretty cool stuff pretty quickly in those games, and their first areas are all really approachable as you get used to their systems. Maybe it's just that I'm so shield averse in these games due to having played Bloodborne first and most but I can never remember I have a shield on me, either (though it doesn't help that it's quite small). I'm really going to give this one as honest a push as I can give it today but it's hard not to feel the pull back to all the side content I didn't do in Horizon yet so I can have some actual fun.

(And yes, I know the gold flakes are pointing me in the direction of things to do both in the world and on the map. I just can't make it to whatever those things are.)

One thing I would like some help with: I felt like in the preview period it sounded like the horse could travel some pretty insane heights without taking any damage, whereas in this game it seems like par with any other horseback open world game. My most recent run I saw a bridge below me with a chest, seemed like it could be a cool weapon, so I tried to be clever and double jump onto the bridge. I made it, and I tried to time my second jump so it would basically break my fall just before I hit the deck...but I died from the impact anyway. Have I completely misunderstood the horse? Is it only when you hit those wind streams that you'll land effortlessly?

@nodima: yea, the super jump is only on those few specific spots. I might be wrong, but it seems like you can fall a bit further when on your horse (without dying), but you're still very much limited by big terrain changes. Unless an area seems specifically designed for jumping (like some sort of step-like structure) you're usually better off finding a way to navigate up/down.

You can fall safely really far by the standard of the series but the problem is that the cutoff point is razor thin so experimenting with it can be really dicey.

Also yeah double jump does not mitigate fall damage which messes with me a lot cause my video game brain assumes that it should work like that.

I'm about 20 hours in and my trepidations of the series going with an open world have mostly rang true. After 20 hours, I've only really gone up against two bosses, the two in Stormveil. Sure, there are bosses all over the map, but I've only died to one of them. It's hard to remember a boss when just about every one of them falls first go to the tried and true method of circle-strafing and poking it after it does a big looking attack. I've also ignored the dragons since the dragons are always awful and not fun in these games.

I've cleared most of the Stormveil and Morne areas. While the areas are large and mostly nice to look at, they're also very samey and there are very few interesting things in the world for how large it is. There have also been very few worthwhile rewards. It kind of feels a lot like the Chalice dungeons. Yeah, it's fun to play Elden Ring, but if there are another 40+ hours of this, I can definitely see myself burning out on it.

I'm probably missing something, but I still haven't found anyone who sells even the basic smithing stone, which makes it a chore to try out different weapons, especially since they gift you the +8 Rogier's Rapier really early.

That being said, I still love the game. I just really miss the standard format of find a new area, clear out the area, learn and beat a boss, move on to next area.

I've put around 12-13 hours in the last few days. I am more optimistic about it than I was in the very early stages. The world really is quite fun to roam around and explore. There are some really neat things to find and the varying enemies keep things fresh. I've only run into one instance of somewhat repeating bosses where I fought some cat statue boss in one dungeon, then another with two extra heads and some annoying adds in another. I've explored most of the south region all the way to castle morne, then a lot of Limgrave as a whole.

The strange part for me is the first main story boss, Margit. Its obvious that you're supposed to fight him after you have explored a bunch and leveled up some, but damn if he ain't the hardest first real boss of any From game to date. What really screwed me up is that I have been able to explore quite broadly for over 10 hours and never felt underpowered, even with my base level broad sword. Yet it doesn't feel like much of that prepared me at all for my first "real" encounter. Last night, at around character level 22-25, I decided to level up my weapon to +1 before fighting Margit for the first time just to see how I stack up. It didn't go well. He hits like a truck and I was not doing much damage(easy enough to remedy that).Watching some vids and reading Tamoor's guide over on gamespot it seems you should have at least a +3 weapon. He forgot to recommend a level for your character though lol.

This makes sense to me on the one hand, because it encourages you to explore instead of just mainlining the story. But on the other I wonder how many folks are going to walk away from this game because of this fight, which I am to understand is actually tougher than the next couple challenges you'll face in the story. I watched a lets play from the one streamer I follow and he just happened to pick this certain summon from the gift list in the character creation, and it did a large portion of the fight for him. Meanwhile, my summons get decimated immediately and provide almost no help. I have more than enough materials to level up my sword further but I can tell that this is still going to be quite the skill check if you don't happen to have certain options available. It doesn't feel like the bosses before really prepare you for such a steep step up in difficulty. I would say this game is harder than Sekiro, which I am one trophy away from a platinum. I beat tower Genichiro my second try. 3 tries on Margit and I got destroyed.

I'm honestly wondering at this point if this game will end up the opposite of what Miyazaki claimed when he said he thought more people would finish it. I'm more inclined to say that more people will spend a lengthier amount of time with it, via the open world format allowing you to wander off from roadblocks. But at its core, when it comes to progression, its not pulling any punches. I mentioned in another post that the same streamer I talked about above said this was harder than DS3 for him, and he's the #1 Soulsborne walkthrough guy. I'm gonna continue to push forward as I can't stop thinking about the game when I'm not playing it. But I do very much believe that if you didn't like what these games were before, you're not likely to get very far in this. The open world just slightly masks the fact that this is still a punishing game, like its predecessors.

Was Margit in the network test? A part of me wonders if he is tuned the way he is to be a big impressive showcase for those early previews. He has the move set of a mid to late game encounter and as much as I’ve played he’s still one of the tougher bosses I’ve seen just in HOW he fights.

@efesell: Yes he was in the network test. I figured at the time that he was a mid level boss put there to give the vets a healthy dose of challenge in a contained event. But apparently he's there right out of the gate to kick all our asses into deciding if we are ready to engage in this undertaking. Imma do it, yes i am lol.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure of all the bosses I've done Margit was the toughest one comparatively to my power level. Although after I did Stormveil I basically spent 15 hours riding around exploring and getting superpowers. At almost 50 hours in now I'm just starting to get to a point where the content I'm doing is somewhat more balanced to my power level again.

I'm fairly sure he is much easier than you think though, it's just the normal problem of having very low stats early on in these games. Compared to other bosses I've done he's very passive and his attacks are super slow.

@ares42: I definitely know my weapon needs a couple more levels, which I have the materials for. Do you remember what level your character was for the fight? Did you beat him solo? Tbf I only fought him a few times to test out a couple summons and test my might, which was sorely lacking. I imagine I will get through this one once I get a bit more comfortable with the moveset. He doesn't seem insurmountable or anything, just tougher than I expected this early. Scary to know that he's pretty tame compared to other bosses you've fought though. Hopefully all my Fromsoft chops return by then.

@spacemanspiff00: I think I had a +2 Battle Hammer, a 0 Brass shield and like 10 vigor 15 endurance 20 strength. Something like that.

Again though, I wouldn't say he's easier than other bosses, comparative to my strength when facing them. Most everything else has been way easier since I've overpowered them. I just think that if you go into that fight well prepared, instead of main-lining like most people will, he will not seem very challenging at all. It's like the Taurus Demon in Dark Souls. When you fight him he seems super strong and hard to deal with, but when you meet them later as normal enemies their moveset isn't really that scary. It's just that when you first met him you had basically no upgrades at all.

@ares42: Yeah, I feel like I've had the opposite Margit experience just because I only went to Stormveil after a dozen+ hours or more of exploration. We're talking 40 dex, Uchigatana +5/6ish here. He really seems like a stone wall meant to force you to explore the rest of the world for upgrades.

@ares42: Funny you should mention the Taurus Demon, another boss I didn't struggle with at all, having played Bloodborne first.. The only bosses I think I really struggled with were O&S, and Seath took me longer than I thought it would. Even the DLC bosses went down easy.

Elden Ring feels like they play-doh'd the last decade and change together, while remembering the main audience has been playing these for that long, and doesn't shy away from bringing it to the next level. Considering how heavily it feels like DS4 it would have to step things up in order to push it far enough to satisfy long time vets. Since its been awhile between DS3 and ER its like banging my head against the Cleric Beast all over again after learning Sekiro.

The next time I fire it up I'll go into the fight with a properly leveled weapon and see how it goes. Its interesting that all the weapons I have picked up so far lean pretty high in one direction or another outside early stat gains, unless you're really min/maxing. I chose the Confessor--just to change it up from the usual warrior, and haven't decided if I want to go Str, Dex, or more quality+faith(maybe arcane too) yet. I haven't encountered more than one Faith scaling weapon so far. I might just stick with the broadsword for now and level it up until I find an alternative. However I might give 2-handing some of the weapons I don't have stats to one-hand a shot, as I've seen interesting levels of success in some videos. The blood dagger, which you get from that fucker of a knob in the gorge by the bridge, that throws the blood projectiles, seems pretty dope.

@lapsariangiraff LOL I bloody well hope he would be a cakewalk at that point. I think I am maybe 17-18 Str and 13 Dex. I pumped vitality to 20 I believe. I expect to see significant gains on damage once I level my weapon past +1. I'm already around level 25 which feels high for a first boss. I agree heavily that he's meant to make you explore, and I'd declare that its a good thing. Did I mention I? lmao.

There are so many blatant things enemies do now that are responses to veterans figuring their games out. It’s pretty funny to see.

There’s an enemy type that does this lurching grab like the mindflayers from Bloodborne did all the time. The ones in elden stumble if you backstep… then briefly rise up and go just far enough to catch you if you didn’t keep moving. It catches me every time.

@efesell: You are so right. Its constantly preying on your previous sensibilities. I'm not angry about it or anything, but damn is it making me feel like I'm becoming too reliant on summons and whatnot to distract bosses. Its a whole new ballgame in some respects. Consistent parry timing has been really difficult for me and I'm thinking about avoiding it. Still learning the guard counter risk/reward. Horse combat is getting easier, even if its still kinda Witcher 3 level feeling sometimes. I suppose we'd all be let down if they didn't freshen the whole thing up after the departure that was Sekiro.

@lapsariangiraff: most who don't like it are skeptics who haven't played it, people who have never liked dark souls since the first time they died boss 1, people who label any game changes as just ___ with ____ game mechanics when, ie dark souls but open-world woopie, nothing groundbreaking so no reason to touch it as if we as a hole only play jaw-dropping games lol. Reminds me of people who watched breaking bad and from then on said they cant watch tv cause nothing compares...it has to be groundbreaking in the first episode or they turn it off overlooking their hours of dedication to a series to get those same groundbreaking moments they now demand within 20 minutes. Joking aside.

Generally, people who like souls like it, and that's what matters. Everything else is a bonus. I will say this unlike sekiro that kinda divided the fanbase, or bloodborne a bit, this is uniting it and adding more people. Somehow they resisted catering to everyone and becoming milk toast while catering a bit and keeping old guard happy, something I only see done by Mario thou Mario is able to do jaw-dropping innovations that the naysayers to be fair wanted in the 7th souls like. I'm just happy they didn't go far future or something just to make it "air quotes" different to appeal to those saying it's just Zelda with extra steps. Super fun game, but don't get me wrong, after reading everyone's dissenting opinions I can see it's not for everyone and needs to change to interest everyone. Not sure I wanna play the version of dark souls that does appeal to everyone thou...Much like id hate a splinter cell mass-marketed to take out all the stealth and turn it into COD like, sure it sells but It makes my stealth heart sad. Also, I'm the type that could play another one of those every year if i like the genre, i see why many hate that and most critics are people who also don't just want another one of those good souls games (or bad if you feel that way).

Just over 6 hours in now and starting to find the fun some more. Stumbled on a chest that teleported me to the crystal mines outside Caelid which I was very unprepared for, but that journey to get back home (I keep forgetting I can fast travel) was a nice learning experience as I was able to realize even much stronger enemies are maybe a little more lenient/willing to let you pass than I'd thought at first. Cracked a bunch of rune items, stumbled onto an area where I could force the AI to fight each other and earn between 2k-3k runes without lifting a finger (that was huge) and now I'm level 21 with a +2 samurai sword feeling pretty confident in most minor skirmishes. Killed a cat god!

That being said, quoting you because two things are eluding me: I can't figure out how to use any skills besides Parry when my shield is out, and I can't find any indication for why I've collected several summons but they're greyed out - I can equip them, I have the FP it says I need to cast them, and nothing's indicating I need more faith or arcane or something...welcome to Dark Souls, I s'pose? Anyway, I'd like to know how to do these things!

In any case, I think I can see myself agreeing with Renata over at Waypoint several hours on from now. I worry that the open world stuff is going to start feeling kind of frictionless and I might lose the plot in a way you certainly never can in Bloodborne or Demon's Souls.

While I'm enjoying stumbling onto things, I still stand by what I said in comparing this game and Horizon's design philosophy before having played both games now that I have. There are interesting things I think I'm seeing in this game that turn out to be nothing, or barely something, and I don't think that's necessarily more fun than knowing something is somewhere and finding out what that something is right as I get there. Does it make everything a bit more foreboding? Sure. But I've played for 6 hours and don't have a single goal at all other than "find interesting stuff". I'm finding this all very promising and I'm actually engaging with the ranged combat which feels weird for these games, but I'm just...curious, which I guess is the point right now.

@nodima: If you have a shield out then the "Parry" skill will overtake whatever your weapon skill is unless you two hand the weapon. Not all shields have Parry and you can use those to still be able to use main weapon skills whenever.

You can't actually USE summons until you have a Summoning Bell. I think once you learn your first summon you can get a bell from Renna The Witch who shows up at the Church just past where you start out in Limgrave but if you progress too far she leaves and you'll have to buy one at the shop in Roundtable.

I don't think I've played a game so personally divisive. I oscillate between loving it and hating it every 5 mins.

@efesell: Got it! Think I might have to buy the thing...but yea, for whatever reason when I had a crossbow equipped my guy would just reach for his pocket rather than sheathe his sword. Seems like I can't keep anything I have for my left-hand equipped right now if I want to try that skill. Oh well, like I said, can barely remember I have a shield anyway!

@nodima: The brass shield that drops from most of the soldiers in the first area is a 100 physical shield that does not have Parry innately. It's one of the best shields to use if you just want to block and not cancel out a different skill.

@nodima: you can also buy an ashes of war from someone early on that's technically "no skill" and it'll let remove the "parry" option too

Well, a bunch of folks called Breath of the Wild a masterpiece, and Elden Ring is a significant improvement on the BOTW formula, so I guess that makes it a Masterpiece+1, or a Supermasterpiece, or something to that effect.

I really liked the discussion Dan had with Austin and Abby about what constitutes a masterpiece, I kind of with they'd done a podcast dedicated to just that.

Closing in on the end of the game and I think I can confidentally say that I think this game is too long. Like, it's giving me Return of the King flashbacks with how many times I've gone "oh, there's more?". Just the main campaign alone is longer than any of the former titles (maybe not DS2 with all DLC), and then with the open-world on top I've just hit fatigue. Doesn't help that much of what I'm facing at this point is third or fourth iterations of the same enemies/bosses. There's still some cool new stuff here and there, but it's just too much trudging through the same encounters over and over.

The sad part is that many of the late-game areas are still amazingly well done, but I'm just running through them since I have no motivation to explore anymore.

Usually when I finish playing these games the first time I jump in with a different build and go again. And while I'm really curious to see how a caster build fares in this game I can't see myself going again for a good while.

In an incredible milestone this game has the worst sewer level I have ever seen.

Now that I've finally defeated a mainline boss and found myself right outside the courtyard of what I can only imagine is the Erdtree and endgame: how does everyone feel about the fact that this game is littered with icons on the map, only many of them are ultimately irrelevant? I've created a sort of hook leading from the launch of the game up northwest and them loop back to the northeast corner, with a little chunk of the southeast also carved out...and I'm starting to forget exactly what I've done or whether I've done all of the things in a given place. Is that a good thing? I'm especially curious about all those tendrils: are they supposed to represent things I haven't found or accomplished, or simply remind me of things I have found and done?

Despite all my complaints about various bottlenecks of progression, how I've wound up having to kind of game this...game to get what I want out of it and most of all the total fuck you nature of most obvious bosses (more in the boss thread, I guess) I'm starting to find my actual biggest complaint is that this game has no interest in letting you know you already did something, and so when you're looking for something to do it quickly becomes this game of..."did I explore the Deagon-Burnt Ruins? Why is there no site of grace nearby on my map? Is there one there that I missed? And what of the Street of Sages? I'm pretty sure I did a thing there...yet these tendrils encircle it and there are just so many sites of grace surrounding it...what did I miss?"

Similar to the complete lack of signposting with regard to the ash summoning bell (which, again, I'm still furious about considering that concept is the only reason I've even gotten as deep into this game as I have) I wonder if this is a bit of a misunderstanding of how a world this large and dense should be described to the player. Especially someone who might not have much time for it and need to spread this game over several months. I've stumbled onto lots of cool things and found lots of cool stuff, but will I always remember where I did that and whether I had any reason to go back? With about 75% of the map de-fogged at the very least, I'm looking at this thing and getting increasingly worried that I have no idea where things are, which I get is part of the marker system but...also, would it have been so awful if the game had marked these things for me once I saw them, so I wouldn't have to halt and pull up a menu?

I suppose I'm still stuck interrogating how valuable all this "self-discovery" is in an open world like this compared to a more constrained world of previous FromSoft games. I know I had a pretty awful time at The Shaded Castle right now, but I have no idea why there are still tendrils leading south from basically every site of grace in the south of my map. Eventually both items might just be blurs in my mind. That's immersive, maybe? But does it help me progress at all? Big shrug.

@nodima: I'm not really in the habit of finding an area and then just leaving it alone so the icons are useful to me in that sense of if I found it and its revealed on the map it means I did whatever was there. Or at least I finished what I think was the goal there and it's the same either way.

The tendrils are kind of bizarre though. It's a little inconsistent what they're pointing at because the game implies that it's for main quest objectives but I know at least a couple that are pointing at important side quests.

@topcyclist: I’m not sure if I’m grasping your point here, but like mentioned, I am very much enjoying my time with this game, even more now as days have passed. It’s still not a game that I keep thinking about every waking moment when I’m not playing it, nor has it made every other game I play feel meaningless (I’m playing Forbidden West at the same time and having a great time with both).

I think the fact that it’s still ”just” a Souls game but with a vast open world around it doesn’t make me think that it’s somehow revolutionary. Again though, I’m enjoying it and can easily see Elden Ring be in my top five on my GOTY list later this year, probably even if I’d stop playing it because of it becoming too diffcult.

As far as 10/10 games go for me, I think a good number of them have a memorable story (The Last of Us). That’s sadly lacking with ER, which just feels like any other From game (except Sekiro) with it’s melancholy, weird world and same type of protagonist. It has it’s charm too, just being a stranger in a strange land, but it doesn’t hit me as well as a memorable story with great characters. I don’t remember anyone’s name from this game, but that’s ok.

@nodima Whenever I discover something, I just plonk a marker down on it to tell myself "there's something you should look at here." I use different symbols to mark out different things. For example, I use the skill for an open world boss, the diamond for those gremlin gate things, and the little treasure chest for merchant locations.

When I'm done with what I need to do, I just remove the marker so I know I've done it.

I just finished the game and enjoyed it but I feel as if the BOTW comparisons arent accurate, to me the game world felt more like WoW. Theres lots of visual variety and well made dungeons but actual interactions with the world feel quite shallow. You kill and collect stuff, thats about it. The puzzle solving generally amounts to flicking some switches. Mechanically I also feel like the implementation of AI summons isnt great. It being limited to certain situations, only being able to do it once per encounter and it being tied to mana (and health) is just too restrictive. Nioh 2 for example had a seperate meter and each summon had it's own cooldown, could be used whenever and and the process of upgrading it isnt as resource intensive, which leads into my biggest problem with Elden Ring and the Souls series in general.

The disincentivization of experimentation. You get so many weapons and spells, which is great but you get so few resources so you generally only get to use one or two weapons. I get that they want you to commit but it makes finding new weapons less interesting. I know people hated the durability system in BOTW but it kept things interesting, in Elden Ring I really couldnt care less when I got a new weapon or boss soul because the process of finding all the upgrade materials is so ardous. It wasnt as bad in other Souls games because they were more linear and the process of aquiring the materials was easier. I know certain venders sell them but by that time you've nearly reached the end of the game. (or at least I had)

Anyway, I know it sounds like i'm down on the game which i'm not, I wouldnt have sunk nearly 100 hours into in roughly two weeks if I were. I just wanted them to mess with the formula a bit more than they did. This is Dark Souls 4 in all but name and i'm sure thats what most people wanted. But personally I had a better time with Bloodborne and Sekiro than I did Elden Ring.

If there is one thing I would recommend everyone look up in a guide, even diehards who hate doing that, it is the location of the items that unlock smithing stones in the Roundtable vendor. You can get a huge variety of those around Midgame and that completely frees you up to experiment with however many weapons you want.

Alright, I am now 27 hours in and have defeated Margit and Godrick. I needed summons for both and I don't feel bad about it. Especially against Godrick and his BS stun locking ground flames which if he uses when you're close to him is guaranteed death. Thanks for the words of encouragement fellow bombers.

I decided to do a bunch for exploring which has helped somewhat but also revealed the open world trappings. Its still done better than most open world games however if you see certain things, you know what they are and what you'll likely find. I think my main gripe is that finding weapons that suit whatever build you want to use isn't nearly as simple as older games. I'm still using the goddamn broadsword my Confessor started with because all the weapons I pick up are wildy above my stats or I don't want to use them. I do have a blood dagger as a secondary for my Arcane stat.

This game really is quite special and I'm gonna see it through if I can muster the skills. What sucks though is that I already doubt I'll have any interest in replaying it. I suppose if I make notes about certain items and weapons that would streamline the process next time wouldn't hurt but damn its so much content. I watched a video yesterday of a secret area that was so cool and large that it makes the rest of the open world seem significant, yet smaller than I thought. I could see myself spending the rest of the year on this game.

Worried that I'm hitting the wall. I figured out that the statues on the map actually represented where the map pieces were, so I collected all those. I've got 83 fast travel points on the map (plus the round table) which has led me to figure there's about 100 of them in total. I've been teleported to dead ends, come up against apparently regular enemies that use magic and break poise like a fucking fuck, discovered a lot of the Minor Erdtrees and couldn't hack it there either, found Big Pot Boy and couldn't hang with his friends...so I finally took the bait and went out in search of that katana katana users seem to love only to realize: 1) after reading three guides, apparently this boss isn't all that hard, just annoying? If you say so... and B) my INT stat is 9 and it needs to be 23 to wield this thing. That's never happening.

I just can't think of anything to do in this world other than grind runes at this point, I have a vague idea of where Godrick is (which is pretty funny to me considering I have a very concrete idea of where Radahn is) but I'm not sure I'm motivated to fight my way to him. I'm just really discouraged because I feel like I've explored most of this world and seen a lot of things - and there are still some bosses out there I think I could take with just a bit of tweaking - but I really just want to keep having fun in this world. And this might be the breaking point, but after two hours of playing (33 hours in) and getting absolutely nothing done other than linking some sites of grace I was led to via guides and acquiring yet another set of mostly interchangeable medieval armor...I see the flaws in making this an open world game.

I've made these references a lot but Bloodborne (not Old Hunters) is the one FromSoft game I've beaten (and played the first 2/3rds of four times over), Demon's Souls and Sekiro are the other FromSoft games I've played. I'm infatuated with one, quite enamored with (though also struggling to complete) another and really, really dislike how railroaded the third is. At so many moments during this game I've had this sort of "fuck yes" feeling in my gut as I saw all these different options laid out before me. It sort of reminds me of Disco Elysium's skill tree and how that effects the world's reaction to your character, actually. But then there's the game itself, and unlike that instant connection I felt with Bloodborne, I really don't feel like I'm making any progress. It's insane to me that I'm level 54 and still wandering into early areas with enemies that look really familiar only they actually one- or two-shot me instead of take a quarter or less of my health.

And so now I stare at this map and come back to something I was harping on early on...how is this actually all that different from any other open world other than I found some of these things without being led there, feel I can't accomplish them, pull up the map...and look at all these things I have no idea if I already did or decided I couldn't do it? I think what I really need to do is look up where I can find a glintstone key and pray (and pray and pray) that I can acquire that item....but I don't see the charm in this moment compared to something like Horizon or Tsushima where I know what I've done and what I haven't, what I can look forward to and need to be prepared for, and can make progress every time I pick up the controller (which, again, while I don't normally do this I play those two games specifically on their hardest difficulties so I'm not averse to difficulty as a rule or anything) so it feels good to spend time in those worlds.

What I mean to say, I suppose, is that in all three other FromSoft games, I knew what I needed to accomplish and could decide for myself whether I wanted to accomplish it. My skills and level built towards those moments. They felt designed - Elden Ring feels almost slapped together by comparison right now.

But if I can't do that (find the key), it was my sister's birthday today and she's about halfway through Horizon. It'll probably take her another month to finish it and then she wants to get Elden Ring. Maybe I'll guide her through the early stuff with a new build at that point and see if two player makes a difference? But if the host dies, it's over, right? I've never messed with that in these games. I just don't know. I'm officially lost in the sauce.

@nodima: I think you aren't getting a lot of direction because you have avoided fighting Godrick who is the first "main" boss that the game was directing you to. You can go all sorts of places without doing this but you aren't going to get any further main progression notes until then.

@nodima: In previous Souls games, if the host dies in co op then you get kicked out of their world, yes. They've all been fun games to try to co op in, but they've never been games intended to be played in co op with the same person from beginning to end. That's going to be somewhat fiddly because of all the summoning and re-summoning all the time. Perfectly possible, not as smooth as playin something like Halo co op.

When I beat Godrick, two things happened in the Roundtable Hold for me. The first is that a door opened and behind it was a character and a... thing? And both of those seem important to the plot, in a cryptic From sort of way. The second is that the guy in the library, the one crouched over a table and a bunch of books, starts talking to you and he'll tell you about several other guys you have to fight and the general area you can find them in. It's not a totally directionless game.

Still, for all the praise this game's open world has gotten so far, I can't help but feel like this seriously suffers from "first time open world game" syndrome. In terms of pure feel, Dark Souls III is very similar to this game, so mentally I'm constantly comparing the two and I can't help but feel like DSIII comes out better in every way. It's thirty hours long and almost all of it feels like From putting their best foot forward. Meanwhile, in Elden Ring, I've found some great stuff and experienced some pretty high highs, but none of them have been as high as the highs in DSIII, while the lows have been much much lower. I'm happy that From has made a game where everything on the map isn't marked with a giant "look over here" button, but I think I'd be more interested if it were less cryptic, or if it had... well, quite frankly, a fucking quest log.

Anyway, all that was to make the case that if you take a break from Elden Ring with intent to try it again later, I'd actually say it's worth considering playing DSIII instead, a game structured more like Bloodborne in that it's mostly linear but you usually have at least something else you could go try to do if you're not into whatever you're doing at any given moment.

...but also, none of this is to say that Elden Ring hasn't wormed its way into my head. Despite those lows (and they really are low), I keep coming back, and usually I'm excited to come back after work every day, and usually I'm more excited the next day than I was the previous. So maybe in another fifty hours or however long it takes me to finish this mammoth game I'll be on those boards telling everyone to forget everything else From ever made or something.

I feel like Elden Ring is ridiculously bloated. I've been sticking to the main path (I have 90-something map markers for dungeons I've found and haven't completed) and the amount of times I've hit hard walls where a boss will wipe the floor with me or the amount of damage I do chips away an almost unnoticeable amount of health off their bar is staggering. And yet I've sunk over a hundred hours in the game! I always liked how From's previous games were pretty succinct but afforded you more playtime if you really wanted to. Armored Core and the Souls games both let you play through again and clean up any content you missed or just muck around with build ideas. I rarely played the new game plus modes and the length of those games were perfect for me.

After defeating the Fire Giant and feeling like I was about to finally finish the game I've once again hit a hard wall of not being able to do any meaningful amount of damage. I'm not particularly interested in doing side content since it tends to be uninteresting dungeons and repeats of bosses I've faced before.

And here I am still experiencing the same problems Demons' Souls had, where the camera is not up to snuff when fighting giant or fast enemies (or fast giant enemies for that matter). Often the best way to fight a boss is to not use lock on and just have a screen full of feet. Having to repeatedly tap the D-pad to select items and spells still sucks in the middle of combat if you have more than 3 or 4 of them and the addition of the pouch, while helpful, does not solve the issue. I really wish From would devote some resources to this aspect of their games.

There's a lot I have enjoyed in my time playing Elden Ring but it's also been a frustrating experience where I was doing things just because I need those levels rather than because I was actually interested in exploring an area and now I've reached the point where I've had my fill of the gameplay and just want to see the end. The game telling me that I can't until I sink a few dozen more hours into the game makes me want to put it down and this might just be the first Souls game I don't bother to finish (not counting Bloodborne since that was more about being fed up with the load times on a base PS4). Or maybe I'll just fire up Cheat Engine to give myself a billion souls and finish the game on my terms.

@dijidiji: I agree with a lot of what you've said and I've voiced pretty much all my thoughts here at this point. But one thing I would majorly agree with you on is the open world fatigue. I'm just over 30 hours in as of yesterday and I've fought one boss 3 times in 3 separate dungeons. 1 of them had some annoying adds, that's it. I get that folks aren't necessarily going to take the same paths so it makes sense that you would need to fill the world out that way. I would never have expected them to craft an original boss for every little dungeon. I'm still rather impressed with how much enemy variety I've already seen given I've much less playtime than many others at this point.

@spacemanspiff00: It's funny because something that made me think I would be able to avoid the fatigue that generally comes with open world games was hearing about how it's not an Ubisoft brand open world where your map is full of activities to tick off but I think if anything those games allow you more freedom to skip the repeated activities than Elden Ring. Rather, it seems as if the thing pushing you to do those activities is being under-levelled rather than the simple desire to clear your map. So it's kind of six of one, half a dozen of another.

While I prefer Elden Ring over Sekiro, I oddly feel that Sekiro is a more deliberately and dare I say more well designed game then Elden Ring. That might just be the amount of polish and love that can be afforded to every element that can't be when you're developing a sprawling open world, I dunno.

I don't mean to endlessly rag on the game though, I'm still having a lot of fun playing the game purely co-op.

@dijidijiAt this point, its the same thing as always that keeps me coming back: the world, and whatever ghastly things I might find in it. Only now the world feels like you're being guided through a fantastical journey marred with the same sort of activities you would encounter in any open world, and you're gonna need to do them if you want to stand a chance. At the very least each area is usually home to decent loot, and the hopes of a cool enemy encounter. I still think From's enemy variety puts many other devs to shame in that regard. I've made my peace with what the open world formula is. I never expected Fromsoft to truly reinvent anything. Its like Ghost of Tsushima hiding its 7 different activities behind you following a wisp of wind.

At this point when I see a church in Elden Ring I know what to expect--save for the odd npc encounter. But I've still got a hunger to want to keep seeing what else is there. Because there really is some neat stuff to find. Most of that seems to end in the form of special enemies and whatnot but I think that's the bread and butter of why most of us are here. And having spoiled myself a little on some of the secret areas in the game I'm just excited to delve into them myself for sheer spectacle. And the cool bosses you find, even if you can't beat them.

I've tried to focus this on Elden Ring so that I don't veer into how much I agree with you about Sekiro. Its my #1 Fromsoft game. All killer, no filler. I love that game....gawd its so good. I could go on, I really could. Its a beautiful, deadly ballet, that only asks more. And soon you will too.(Muahahaha)

Guess I'll give an update as well. I'm 40 plus hours in so far and the game overall deserves the praise its getting. This will definitely be in my Top 10 games of 2022 near the top. The exploring of the world is great. The many different enemy types you encounter, plus the huge number of bosses. The beautiful environments really stand out. When I got to the first Divine Tower in Stormwell Castle and noticed the detailed cloud and weather effects while it was raining, I knew this game was special. I've beaten two Demigods so far, Godrick and Radahn, who was a real pain. Right now I'm trying to complete witch Ranni's story arc and currently trying to beat that horrific looking, but very well designed bug boss. So afterwards, I can complete Wolf-Man Baidd's story arc. IMO this game is better than Sekiro. As much as I wanted to like Sekiro, I just couldn't get into it like the other From Software games. Maybe I'll try again now that I'm enjoying Elden Ring.

@av_gamer: IMO Sekiro is the only game From has made since Demon's that doesn't have the same Souls feel. Even Bloodborne, for all its differences, feels like a Souls game at heart. While Sekiro definitely has some identifiable Souls DNA, it's perhaps to its detriment since the game otherwise plays very different and I think a lot of people (myself included) are set up with certain expectations when they encounter some of those Souls mechanics. At its core there is one way to play which is a dance of timed blocks and parries. While there are the prosthetics, they are generally used to exploit weaknesses in a foe rather than being something akin to creating a spellcaster build in the Souls games. I think that focus on a single defined style of play afforded From the chance to hone it and polish it... I think I just convinced myself to replay Sekiro!

To get back to the topic at hand, I recently respecced my character to remove the points in strength and dex that weren't contributing a large amount given I've ended up using a holy affinity weapon. I funnelled those points into mind so my FP is a lot higher and I'm having a lot more fun since it gives me ample opportunity to throw lightning bolts at an enemy if I can't or don't want to deal with their move set in close range. I still use my melee weapons (a holy mace and a newly upgraded fire sword so that I have another damage type) to deal with lesser enemies and to get hits in where a spell might take too long to cast, but having the ranged options has 100% improved my enjoyment of the game. There are so many enemies where, due to my lack of skill, I simply could not time the dodges and their chains would use up all my stamina if trying to block. Previously I was being hard headed and forcing myself to kill these things in melee, now I just fall back on my large FP pool and throw some lightning around.

Side note: the decision to not have a lightning affinity that scales with faith upsets me, given my choice of spells are holy and lightning.

Edit: and before I forget, I still think there's a better balance between guiding and not guiding the player. One of my favourite things in Elden Ring are the notes you can buy or sometimes find that offer up hints. Like the one that mentions where you can get the physick. More of these would've been welcome to cut down on some of the aimlessness while still giving that feeling of discovering something. In particular, I'm thinking of things like the bell bearings which let you buy smithing stones instead of having to farm enemies for them. Hints to semi-critical items like that, which feel like in-world rumours, are always really cool to me when it happens in games.

Also we have a dude in the hub called "the all knowing". This would've been a great opportunity to allow players to ask for some hints. He does sometimes offer up information but it's not at all consistent. I could see this character being great for some context sensitive hints, like if a player has died in Caelid a billion times then you might be able to ask him what he knows from his studies about Caelid and he might say something to hint at the fact that the Aeonia swamp area and the barrows to the north are far harder than things on the way to Sellia. Or perhaps if you haven't completed Liurnia yet he might point you in that direction.

This kind of "soft direction" would be helpful without just being a big labelled level range on the map. I do wonder how much of this is deliberate design and how much is inexperience on From's part. It's hard to tell since From and Miyazaki don't seem to talk about development and design a lot. I would love a documentary on the development of Demon's Souls.

Finished the game and got the Age of Stars ending. Overall, I think it's a very good game, and a good next step in the From Software games. The positive reviews are mostly justified, though I also agree with a lot of the criticisms. People who wanted to jump on the Soulsbourne bandwagon but thought the other games were too hard, well bad news, this game is no different. In fact, towards the end, the bosses become as hard as the ones in Demon Souls with all kinds of cheap tactics. Ranni's quest arc was the highlight and I recommend everyone do it. Even if you think its not that great, the reward is worth it, as you get arguably the best Greatsword in the game. You also go through a lot of the main story moments while doing her quest, so it's really one of the best choices in the game you can make.

Overall personal score: 9/10

The one thing that is missing is the mechanic where you get your lost health back by going on the offensive after being hit. I really liked that about Bloodborne. It encourages a more aggressive style of play.

I'm taking a break from Elden Ring. I may have hit a soft wall after entering that one zone immediately east of Leyndell. It's also due to a little bit of burnout. I haven't participated in any jolly cooperation, invasions, or anything since the game runs much better in offline mode. The stuttering becomes way too bothersome in some areas.