Stealth marketing: MS paying YouTubers for Xbox One mentions

Well, when I found out that Two Best Friend's Play was a rehearsed sitcom I lost my faith in youtube content. All I watch on the tubes are TBFP and Game Grumps(moreso the eps with JonTron). I still watch TBFP but it doesn't feel the same anymore, when I thought it was just friends shooting the shit while gaming it was awesome, but when it turned out to be nothing but a scripted sitcom then I just went numb. So just assume nothing is real, you'll get used to it eventually.

When did Youtubers become neutral press? I'd certainly lose respect for someone who was paid to show off a game and say something other then what they actually think but I don't go to Youtube for neutral opinions on things.

Anyways, I don't give a fuck what people say, I just want to see the games in action and decide for myself and whether Microsoft pays someone to show off the game or not, I'm still getting what I want out of it.

@nmc2008: How scripted is TBF? I'm not surprised that they have a script of talking points etc., but I doubt it goes beyond that?

@fearbeard: Thing is, even if a person isn't part of "the neutral press", he/she has to follow the same FCC rules as everyone else. I can't just start a blog named "I LOVE NINTENDO!" and then go on to praise the shit out of the Wii U if Nintendo has paid me to talk about it in a positive way, and I don't disclose that. And that's a good thing imo, even if you're a fanboy of something the people who consume the content should expect that it's at least not a paid opinion.

Another day, another MS witch hunt.

Not that I support this kind of thing, but you guys have to be pretty naive to think that this doesn't happen with other major companies in pretty much every industry. Movies, electronics, books, TV shows, spoons. Ever seen somebody on a messageboard praising a particular game a bit too fondly? I honestly can't believe you guys could be outraged to find out something like this is happening. It's everywhere, all the time, and it's not just Microsoft.

But does that make it better? MS is breaking FCC regulations here. I didn't create this thread to shit on MS (I don't give a fuck about the console war, and don't think MS is the devil), it's just that MS is now the example of what is probably a wider problem. And yeah, others might be doing the same, but that's just more of a reason to actually follow up on this when particular examples of the practice is revealed. This will just get more and more common on Youtube if people accept it as the rule, and move on.

Oh well, at least we can now easily list all the unreliable channels with that "XB1M13" tag.

@extomar: @spraynardtatum:

I'm not saying sympathize with Microsoft. Why should Microsoft be the only one to blame? Why are headlines always about Microsoft when they're not the only ones doing this?

I think you all think I'm trying to like, lessen Microsoft's negative impact from this or something. This is wrong and ridiculous and probably illegal yet others do it too, but when Microsoft does it, that seems to be the only thing that matters around here.

Who said anything about Sony or Nintendo? This isn't something exclusive to gaming. I can't provide a link because I'm not naming specific companies - I'm talking about corporations in general.

@xyzygy: Thing is, MS isn't getting singled out here because they're MS, but because they were caught breaking the FCC rules in such clear way. Are some other companies doing this? Yeah, probably, but as far as I know there's no hard proof of it yet. This will likely become an ever bigger problem because Youtubers are just getting more and more popular, and many of them probably don't have the same "journalistic standards" as more traditional outlets when it comes to straight up taking money for favourable coverage.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. This guy is great. What he says about how Microsoft is the guy we like to beat up on and that the Xbox One has a negative aura placed upon it (for no reason might I add) makes so much sense. This shit happens so much then people get pissy because Microsoft is doing it... shows that they're just looking for more dumb, useless shit to hate on Microsoft for.

@amyggen At the end of the day this just comes down to a bunch of people saying good things about a system. Why do you care if they get paid or not? Why does it matter if they're "breaking FCC rules" for such a petty thing as saying a game is good? They're not journalists at your favorite website, and if they are, and if they use their real name, they just lose credibility because they're stupid. This should not in any way affect the company because as I've said this stuff is commonplace in corporations - it's just advertising.

As a reasonable, dignified fellow, I only have one thing to say...

This shit is seriously fucked up. Every gamer has reason to vehemently shame any company caught pulling this bullshit or trying to claim it's alright. I'm certain this has happened plenty of times before with many companies who think they can get away with it, but they should be given ample and unequivocal reason to rethink trying this in the future. This is pure, unfiltered bovine excrement drizzled in the face of anyone who likes gaming videos.

They are not breaking FCC rules, they are breaking FTC law. And the "they" in question aren't you tube channels, they're Microsoft.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Microsoft-Machinima-Xbox-One-YouTube-Promotion-May-Unlawful-According-FTC-Guidelines-61735.html

In fact, Machinima forbids any registered partners or affiliates from making it known that they are being compensated for positive promotion of the Xbox One, with the e-mail stating under section 5., labeled “Confidentiality”...

“You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements, and the CPM Compensation, listed above. You understand that You may not post a copy of this Agreement or any terms thereof online or share them with any third party (other than a legal or financial representative). You agree that You have read the Nondisclosure Agreement (attached hereto and marked as Exhibit “A”) and You understand and agree to all of terms of the Nondisclosure Agreement, which is incorporated as part of this Agreement.”

An NDA that prevents content creators from acknowledging paid-endorsements for products. That's exactly what that's saying.

This is in direct violation of the Federal Trade Commission's endorsement and testimonial advertising laws. As stated in the FTC guidelines under section 255.0 sub-section (b) on the official website.

Paying people to promote your products is commonplace. Forbidding them from mentioning that they're being compensated is illegal.

@spaceinsomniac: Yeah, I meant FCC law. But aren't both the Youtubers and MS breaking the law by doing this? From what I understand, the content creator has an obligation to be transparent when doing paid content, and MS has an obligation to make sure that they're doing just that. That seems to be the case if you look at "Example 7" I quoted from the FCC guidelines.

I might be wrong, but that's how I understand it at least.

To demonstrate the problem, lets make a hypothetical: Lets say someone from CBSi let slip that Giantbomb was paid by From Software for all of those Dark Souls videos. That isn't illegal but it does change the issue from being "That is cool that Brad and Vinny are playing this!" to something else. It isn't automatically bad or illegal but it does seem like they lied. Hell I'd gladly watch a From Software sponsored content on GiantBomb.com but they need to be clear it is From Software sponsored content.

I have to point out again it is fine to pay who ever to promote whatever video game stuff. If Microsoft wants to pay Angry Video Game Nerd to say how great the XBox One is then go for it. No one should stop Microsoft or James from doing that. No one should have a complaint either AS LONG AS IT IS CLEAR IT IS ADVERTISING INSTEAD OF EDITORIAL. In any event, except for the FTC angle paying someone, anyone, to promote product is not illegal. Lying or misrepresenting advertising as editorial is unethical and immoral.

So no one is really mad Microsoft for trying to find and pay people to show off the XBox One. No one really cares guys at Machinma let alone at Youtube where getting paid a a pittance more for videos featuring the XBox One in a good light. They are mad at what they thought was opinion was actually solicitation. All they needed to do is "Promotional Consideration provided by Microsoft" somewhere in the video to dodge it but I thought there was language buried in there that these partners were denied from this.

And it is also worth pointing out that beyond this, behavior of big companies like this plays well into the recent action by Youtube. Companies can now make a claim against anyone that shows their product in a bad light as a copyright claim while letting the good ones go by. Companies are now trying to pay "networks" to show their products in good light because they are under a different umbrella and can't make any of those videos go away easily. These are all very troubling trends where no one should really care about random Youtube people making videos about whatever but that companies are trying to create "little Major Nelsons" without scrutiny and official employee has to take.

If you're trying to defend Microsoft in any shape or form; then you're condoning something that is just dishonest and unethical. If someone wants to become a corporate mouthpiece - go ahead - but you should be transparent in that you're getting paid by said company in some form.

It's not a good excuse to say "Well others are doing but you're only getting angry at Microsoft". The act itself is shady - it has nothing to do with the person doing it. And if you're saying Microsoft have a negative aura around it for no reason - then you're just being dishonest yourself. You can't think of any reasons why Microsoft have a negative aura around them... not one?

Regardless, the practice is wrong. There's footballers I like and support who did the same thing for Nike and I found the practice dishonest. It has nothing to do with who's doing it - if the act is shady or unscrupulous - that's all that matters.

@amyggen: Since the claim of breaking the law is still getting thrown around, I want to see the language in the law where it says that a 10 year old kid who puts videos about how much he likes Minecraft and shows all the things he builds in Minecraft is breaking the law by not disclosing that Mojang sent him some swag because he's a super fan. That 'example 7' thing is an arbitrary (and somewhat ambiguous to the reality of what's out there) example), not law. It doesn't tell me anything about what the law really says.

How many Facebook 'Likes' out there were completely solicited by giving shit away? Are we going to start monitoring if you really clicked 'Like' because you 'Like' it or were you given a coupon for 10% an Amazon purchase? The more we start supporting the government policing of internet content, the more it's going to end up stepping on the toes of the content that you enjoy. We have laws to police the corporations from consumer fraud, can't that be enough? I say that fully realizing there will be people out there generating content as "objective" who are completely on the take without impunity and the corporation paying them under the table gets away with it. I just think the community policing this will sustain a free internet and the government involvement and policing will move us away from a free internet.

BTW, I still contend that this was MS wanting to give MS fans money. I can't believe that they would expect objective internet personalities to sell out for this paltry sum. MS just worded this very poorly and went about it in a stupid manner. Just come out and say, "Hey all Xbox fans, make videos with our games and we'll give you a few bucks.". And if the video had something negative, yeah MS you are out a few bucks for someone trolling your promotion, big deal. The silly language about "positive comments only" just caused them more negative publicity than some negative comments in a video ever could.

No one cares about you and your Pepsi. Cool cats drink Coca-Cola™, the World's best carbonated soft drink. Coca-Cola™, a real drink with real taste!

Yes. I like this real talk. You obviously get it. Sometimes after a long day of work, I just need that crisp, refreshing flavor of an ice cold Coca-Cola™. When I get home, I ease onto my couch, turn on my Xbox One™ video game console and play Activision's Call of Duty: Ghosts™. Enjoy gaming. Enjoy life. Enjoy Coca-Cola™.

Both taste the same.

Barq's™

The Kinect cannot be used by the NSA because the data would be too random for anyone to figure out.

XB1M13

You guys should use your Apple™ Macbooks to rage in your favourite videogame site Giantbomb™ owned by your favourite media cooporation CBS interactive™ . If that is not good enough you can also use your favourite social network Twitter™ or Facebook™ to tell your friends and relatives about this deep injustice.

May the criminals involved in this crime against humanity loss their jobs, their house, their income and be eaten by Russian bears, so humanity never ever again face this shady deals.

Wow, isn't it illegal to forbid youtubers to inform that they're being paid?

This is rather underhanded... Some Youtbers with over a million subscribers can reach a ton of people.

@nmc2008: Didn't the MST3k guys use some degree of prep notes? I doubt their full play through of the Sadness Trilogy (Beyond, Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy) was 100% pre scripted. That would be some of the most time-consuming obsession I've ever seen.

I wonder how they determine if you've said only positive things about the Xbone. If I made a video and said, "As you see here Dead Rising 3 runs in beautiful 720p and is lower than 30 fps a lot of the time giving it a great cinematic feel, and these really long install times and load times are awesome because I can read a book or do something else while waiting! When I play my PS4 I don't even have time to walk my dog during the load times like I do with my Xbox One™ All In One™ Entertainment System!" I wonder if that would work.

In all seriousness though this is illegal and the dumb argument that every other company does it is pointless unless you have proof of them forbidding the "influencers" from disclosing they were paid.

It seems that even after the point has been repeated numerous times on this thread, that people still don't get it.

This is not about how advertising is bad. This is not about how Microsoft is bad.

This is about a lack of disclosure about the advertising. This is about a major company breaking the law. I do not hate Microsoft. I do not hate the Xbox One. I don't want to see the company fail, or "get its" or whatever. This is pointing out an illegal practice that the company is doing, and if the other competing companies are doing it too, that is just as bad. Someone gushing about their like of a product without informing others that they were paid to say those things is not only unethical and immoral, it is illegal. I understand that there is a good chance that these Youtubers were not aware of this fact, and that many of them probably liked the console anyway, but that does not make this any more okay.

This is also about the fact that the company specifically stated that the Youtube personalities could not mention that they were being compensated, less than a year after all of that "mommy blogger" crap blew up. Last year (or whenever it was exactly, it could have been two, I'm not positive) the FCC made it very clear that these people need to be explicitly told that they need to disclose when they are receiving compensation or free product. Explicitly telling them that they can't... well, hopefully you can see how that breaks that law.

@generic_username: well said, but I think your points are going to be lost on many people around here. The mental gymnastics some people go to in order to deflect any criticism on their preferred console is just bewildering to me.

@wolfgame: Seriously. I don't get it. This is in no way trashing the Xbox One itself, it's trashing a shady business practice. I think people have to go out of their way to interpret this in a way they can get defensive about.

Add EA to the list: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=755600

Sony did this 2006 and were caught and apologized. We'd be lucky to see MS or EA say anything but PR-spin in response.

UUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! What happened to freaking integrity!? What's EAs tag?

This is unbelievable....

Look guys, I don't understand why you're giving the Xbox One such a hard time about this. Microsoft is just trying to promote their Xbox One brand and get as many Xbox Ones out to the public as possible. As they should, the Xbox One is such a great console with awesome franchises like Dead Rising™, Forza Motorsport™ and Killer Instinct™. And don't forget interesting new IPs like Ryse™, Crimson Dragon™ and Lococycle™. Not to mention Xbox One's innovative TV features that represent the new way to watch television. The Xbox One is pretty much the perfect choice for hardcore gamers and entertainment junkies alike!

Xbox.

Oh, the Xbox one? You mean the console with Halo, Fusion Frenzy, and Blinx The Time Cat? I love that thing.

@generic_username: Haha, a very common mistake. As they say on the internet, I see what you did there. (lol!) I'm referring to the "Xbox One", a new revolutionary console released by Microsoft just last year. You're thinking of the "Xbox", released way back in 2001. Luckily, you can still play games in great franchises from the "OG Xbox" (that's what me and gaming buddies call it) like Halo with Xbox One games like Halo: Spartan Assault™, the newest revolution in Halo gameplay! Hope that clears it up. See you on Xbox Live™!

That thurs a mighty fine source partna.

@milkman: I laughed a whole lot more than I should at your posts... what a day...

Reading about this kind of stuff is demoralizing.

Diet Pepsi tastes nothing like regular Pepsi and YOU KNOW IT! DID YOU GET PAID TO SAY THAT?

giantbomb should collect data about the amount of this going on here. i have noticed it a lot. most of it is embarrassingly transparent.

Why do you feel the need to be warned if a video on Youtube has been sponsored or not? You should treat Youtube like a psychic hotline -- it's for entertainment purposes only. These people are talking about videogames for God's sake. They aren't trying to save the world or report on life or death issues here. I fully expect major news networks are being funneled cash by big corporations and politicians, so why would fucking Youtube be any different?

AlexGlass? Fanboy or stealth marketer?

That doesn't make it right, and it's still totally illegal

At the end of the day, for you as a person that will buy a game and play it on an XBOX, who cares?

@hippie_genocide: I still expect those opinions to be genuine, not bought and paid for. And yeah, it's illegal, so there's that too. Even if something is "for entertainment puroposes only" doesn't mean that you can take money for favourable coverage, even if we're talking about just video games or whatever excuse you're using here.

If we're using your logic here, all entertainment coverage should just be able to be bought with no real consequences, because it's not "life or death issues". There's a reason we have laws against that, and it's mainly pro consumer reasons. And that's good.

The laws were drafted to apply to legit news sources (i.e. notYoutube) so Dow Corning can't pay off CNN not to cover chemical disasters in India and things of that sort. So stop leaning on that crutch.

ProTip: all entertainment coverage is "bought with no real consequences", and you're not fully disclosed as to who is paying for it. Wanna know why? Cuz it's fucking entertainment coverage and no one really cares.

I care

If these YouTubers added their 'promotional consideration received' clauses in the their videos like Hollywood does (i.e. 10 frames in a tiny font after you've left the theater or turned off the TV), they'd fulfill their legal obligation and we'd still be in the exact same situation with the ignorant masses thinking that they are watching objective content. Whether it be colored by experience, prejudice or money, almost everything out there in various forms of media to be consumed by the public is non objective and agenda ridden. You are only left to trust your heart and mind and not blindly accept anything you ever see or hear anywhere. Do your homework, always.

@hippie_genocide said:

That's just plainly not true. Underhanded advertising and consumer protection laws are actually a pretty huge deal. Sure, it's just "video games," but paid endorsements that aren't disclosed as such is actually not at all OK. The FTC has being dealing specifically with this kind of thing for almost 5 years running now; remember that "mommy blogger" stuff from a few years back? Just because it's not on the same level as a chemical spill doesn't mean we should all be OK with it.