Strategy rpgs with actual strategy

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mutha3

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#1  Edited By mutha3

Pretty much the only SRPG I know of which actually requires thinking ahead and minding the enemy's moves is Fire Emblem.
More often than not these games usually devolve into number crunchers, where, having the right piece of equipment and the sufficient level are far more important than any strategy you may devise.
 
Srpg also tend to have piss poor pacing. There is always an incredible unbalance between story and gameplay, not to mention that most Srpg(IE: every single SRPG I have played besides Fire Emblem)  have really, really shitty map design and enemy placement.
 
Like making you move for 30 minutes to kill enemies on a stair case like field(I SWEAR TO GOD,  EVERY FUCKING SRPG).....and then you realize that the mage at the top of this map will keep running away  in a wide arc  from your party members, making the process take 5x as long because your not losing to that mage anyway(ps: he has 10 healing potions).
 
Any other Srpg's that are actually  strategy games?

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Video_Game_King

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#2  Edited By Video_Game_King

I'd suggest the Langrisser games, then, since they're just Fire Emblem on a larger scale.

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HypoXenophobia

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#3  Edited By HypoXenophobia

SRPG are more about combat than story, But play Valkyria Chronicles, most of your complaints are solved.

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mutha3

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#4  Edited By mutha3
@Video_Game_King: 
WOW, these look exactly like Fire Emblem games! I'm suprised there weren't any copyright infrigment issues :p
 
I'll check 'em out sometime. I just hope they have good map design.
@HypoXenophobia:
 
Oh, my OP was more intented as a complaint about combat and shitty map design specifically.  And I've played VC:
Its a great game! But that game doesn't really follow most SRPG conventions, thats why I left it out.
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#5  Edited By Marz

I also liked Valkyria Chronicles.

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#6  Edited By Zelnox
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mutha3

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#7  Edited By mutha3
@Zelnox: 
 
Even though I enjoyed that game.... Thats exactly what I'm talking about when I mean shitty map design. Almost all maps are really shitty escort missions with  completely flat terrains and no thought or consideration was put into the maps or objectives at all.
 
That game would have been better of, being simply an RPG.
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#8  Edited By HypoXenophobia
@mutha3: 
Have you tried Disgaea? I haven't played it yet, as it's never in any store I go to, but I've heard a lot of great stuff about it. I personally enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics but I feel that's the one in your post that you were talking down to. Personally I loved Tactics and was disappointed at how few games there were like that.
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mutha3

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#9  Edited By mutha3
@HypoXenophobia: 
 
Disgaea, Ogre tactics , SMT: Devil survivor are very much like Final fantasy tactics if thats your thing.  Actually most SRPG take the FFT style route.
 
I'm not really saying those are shitty games or something. I'm just saying that they don't really make for good strategy games. The appael of Disgaea and FFT does not lie in planning out an efficient strategy or any of the sort. Their appael lies in number crunching and loot.
And I just feel SRPG should not go in that direction.
 
EDIT:
 
@ Endaround
 
No, WSRPG are fine too
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#10  Edited By endaround

I second SMT:Devil Survivor, it requires paying attention to enemies moves and decking out your character for each battle given the enemies you face.  Are you set on JSRPGs?  Because many people love the King's Bounty series though the story elements are deep in the background.  There is also the King Arthur WRPG.

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#11  Edited By Video_Game_King
@Zelnox said:

" You could try Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor.  The combat instances are fairly short compared to Fire Emblem. "

..........
 
 
Crap, that's not what I meant! Here it is:
 
 
I'll just leave things at, "It's not a good game."
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mutha3

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#12  Edited By mutha3
@Video_Game_King: 
 
Oh come on, it has some interesting ideas :p
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#13  Edited By Video_Game_King
@mutha3: 
 
And they pretty much fail. Also, it's been known to freeze for no fucking reason.
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#14  Edited By Korne

Fire Emblem and Front Mission games tend to require a strategy. FFTactics and Tactics Advance require a bit, but its pretty easy to grind to get better... negating the need for strategy.
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#15  Edited By Korne
@Marz said:
"I also liked Valkyria Chronicles. "

But it doesn't take a lot of strategy... its easy to rush the opponent through 3/4 of the game, and just sit back and snipe the last bit.
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mutha3

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#16  Edited By mutha3
@Korne said:
" @Marz said:
"I also liked Valkyria Chronicles. "
But it doesn't take a lot of strategy... its easy to rush the opponent through 3/4 of the game, and just sit back and snipe the last bit. "
While that may be true, Valkyria Chronicles gets a pass  in my book because of its unique gameplay and setting. Besides Its kinda hard to really call it a SRPG in the first place. As a one shot thing, VC didn't really bother me....If it would have flooded the entire SRPG  market like Final Fantasy Tactics has, then I would have an issue.
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#17  Edited By Zelnox
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#18  Edited By oldschool

Everything when compared to Fire Emblem is never as good.  It is why I keep replaying them.  I do enjoy the other games like Disgaea and FFT a lot, but I do get your point.  Fire Emblem is more than an investment of your time.