Tropes vs Women Kickstarted deadline - missed.

Do I need to go get popcorn. To watch this epic argument on this thread?

@TheHT: half terrible, let's say

@familyphotoshoot said:

@Animasta said:

@familyphotoshoot said:

@Animasta: Are you really going to tell me that she actually suffered because someone made a silly flash game where you can virtually punch a picture of her? Really?

Are you also going to tell me she really needed over $150,000 to do the exact same kind of videos she's been doing for for several years without that kind of funding? It's the cash grab that people are responding negatively to, not the content of the videos (which by the way don't even exist yet).

reddit and 4chan were to blame for her getting way more money than she needed or even deserved

What in the actual fuck are you talking about? Do you honestly believe that 4chan gave her money? Are you insane?

S/he's saying that 4chan got wind of it and started critiquing it and passing it around. Then it made it's way to less savory parts of the website and they started to "troll" Anita. Then the self-righteous game journalists picked up the story and made her the face of internet feminism.

I can't believe she is going as far to steal the exact names off TVTropes. Women in Refrigerators doesn't make sense to anyone who isn't a troper. Why did she need any amount of money, to just read off the Gender and Sexuality tropes pertaining to video games?

I already know the answer, and it's because she wants to control the conversation. TvTropes allows anyone to contribute, and any trope can be argued for or against. She's not a writer herself, she's a censor who wants to construct a medium in which only that which appeals to her is allowed to exist.

I'm a feminist myself, and Anita Sarkeesian is awful. She is not a crusader for equality, she is just a censor out for sexual repression for whatever her own personal reasons are. It's not about freedom with her, it's about power. Specifically, with her opinion as the only relevant one.

I'm supporting any person who is going to play Little Big Adventure no matter the reason.

@Animasta: fair enough.

and you're totally right that all of the harrassing responses are in no way justifiable. the proper response to an idiot isn't throwing stones, as tempting as it might be. the proper response is akin to the video @TeflonBilly posted.

I can't stand her type of feminism. I hate people that support it.

This brings me much, much joy.

As far as missing her deadline, I don't think it's necessarily fair or useful to excoriate her for that. The devs behind FTL were 4 weeks late with their game, but I'm not going to get the pitchforks. Anita's opinions by themselves are worthy of scorn, you don't need to go after deadlines.

With her I feel like I do with Patrick, I agree with most of the stuff he says on principle and almost entirely, but he just goes too far. I'm almost a hipster doofus, I enjoy artistic things and I appreciate originality and so on... But the fact that I ALMOST agree actually makes the parts where I disagree feel that much more intense. I disagree with Ryan on just about everything, so when he and I agree or disagree, doesn't matter. But when it's someone you almost agree with, it's just... I guess that's cognitive dissonance, right?

I think it's pretty obvious that @Animasta is actually Anita herself. I mean, Animasta. Also, it's also a play on the word master, meaning that she is a part master race -- women.

Crazy world we live in.

I'm all for this sort of thing if it's done right. I had a professor in my last semester who did a comic course and always found an interesting way to tie it into feminism. She's written books about the subject. It's interesting.

Anita's videos, though, quite literally take names from TV Tropes and apply them to video games, and it's sometimes questionable how much she's played them. She didn't deserve half of what she got in terms of internet hate, but her backers also don't deserve any of this BS.

Sarkeesian's project seems like it's a poorly thought out idea but the reaction to it is fucking crazy. What is it with people on the internet sending death threats to everyone they don't like?

I still don't see what's so "radical" or "hateful" about Sarkeezian. From the videos I've watched (probably all of them) her message has been 'Media is some bullshit' and 'Where the (white and colored) women at?', both of which are valid points!

@Pinworm45 said:

I can't stand her type of feminism. I hate people that support it.

This brings me much, much joy.

It really accomplishes nothing. All of the lame white knights that backed this project should have donated money to an organization that actually helps women if they wanted to do something worthwhile.

@FancySoapsMan said:

Sarkeesian's project seems like it's a poorly thought out idea but the reaction to it is fucking crazy. What is it with people on the internet sending death threats to everyone they don't like?

Spending enough time on 4chan and /b/ can begin to normalize behaviours that really shouldn't be normalized.

@PeasantAbuse said:

@Pinworm45 said:

I can't stand her type of feminism. I hate people that support it.

This brings me much, much joy.

It really accomplishes nothing. All of the lame white knights that backed this project should have donated money to an organization that actually helps women if they wanted to do something worthwhile.

Donating money to a woman's shelter ot something worthwhile wouldn't be as easy to lord over people on Twitter and Facebook to show how "progressive" you are.

@FancySoapsMan said:

Sarkeesian's project seems like it's a poorly thought out idea but the reaction to it is fucking crazy. What is it with people on the internet sending death threats to everyone they don't like?

Spending enough time on 4chan and /b/ can begin to normalize behaviours that really shouldn't be normalized.

@BisonHero: I wish people would stop pretending 4chan is some super secret internet club where only weirdos and sociopaths hang out. Something like 20 million people visit that site every month.

@TeflonBilly said:

That's really cool. May I ask which comics you wanna focus on? Obviously you have to touch upon Gail Simone and her Women In the Refrigerator deal, that was seminal.

Also the Sue Dibny/Dr. Light rape and the utter gross fiasco that Identity Crisis was for teh entire DC Universe.

Cereberus is a great look at Dave Sim's genius devolving into mysoginistic insanity over the years.

Strangers In Paradise and The Maxx have great female characters who truly stand out as original three dimensional characters who don't fit in any tropes.

And you can take a look at how the whole Girl Power scene of comics has grown with Tank Girl and Grrl Scouts.

I haven't started yet. The course starts in a couple of weeks, but I haven't decided exactly what I will be dealing with yet. So far, I've had a couple articles published and my degree dissertation is about the influence of Sancho Panza (from Don Quixote... not the game, sadly) on teenage sidekicks. I've been focusing mainly in the Golden Age, so it'll probably be also my starting point in my Master's Thesis. I've been using New Historicism to approach these matters, so whatever I may end up doing, I'll probably won't be looking for "solutions", but for causes and reasons to why things are like they are.

It's pretty sad that Identity Crisis had so much bullshit going on and was based on such a... stupid premise, because it introduced many interesting changes in the DCU. Tim Drake's father being killed? Pretty bold move and a milestone in the evolution of the character. And putting Ralph Dibny in the forefront of the DCU was awesome. He's a great character. His role in 52? Amazing. But, yeah... Retcons. They usually do more harm than anything.

@familyphotoshoot: Fine, I'm sure most of those 20 mil are pretty normal, so I probably should've just said /b/. And obviously there have always been corners of the internet as fucked up as /b/, but it's becoming more centralized, and you do see a mob mentality in places like /b/ where everybody suddenly decides to be dicks to a particular person or site, just for a lark.

For the record, I think Sarkeesian's idea for a summary of female video game tropes could be good, if it was written and structured like Target Women.

http://current.com/shows/infomania/90189621_sarah-haskins-in-target-women-lady-friends.htm

@Baillie said:

I think it's pretty obvious that @Animasta is actually Anita herself. I mean, Animasta. Also, it's also a play on the word master, meaning that she is a part master race -- women.

Crazy world we live in.

hah, no way. it comes from zeno clash and she'd hate the character because she's naked and insane (the lady in the mask on the right)

@Binman88 said:

The backers kinda played their part in a real world "damsel in distress" situation.

Really? So a Kickstarter run by a woman is a "damsel in distress" situation?

I might've just characterized it as "a person with an idea asking for donations", but sure, feel free to belittle the motivations of all the backers. I'm sure they all just like that pretty Sarkeesian girl so much that they feel they have to save her from the horrible fate of not having enough donations.

@BisonHero said:

@familyphotoshoot: Fine, I'm sure most of those 20 mil are pretty normal, so I probably should've just said /b/. And obviously there have always been corners of the internet as fucked up as /b/, but it's becoming more centralized, and you do see a mob mentality in places like /b/ where everybody suddenly decides to be dicks to a particular person or site, just for a lark.

/b/ isn't the big bad it used to be (it never really was). Now it's just 14 year olds from LE REDDIT and tumblr who think looking at pictures of dead people is funny.

@Animasta said:

@familyphotoshoot said:

@Animasta: Do you not understand the concept that sometimes people ARE to blame for what happens to them?

are you really going to argue that she deserved everything she got? that game that was about bruising her, huh? I'm not talking about blame but merely severity. She probably knew that she would get some amount of shit for what she was doing, but what she got was in no way close to what she brought to the table, if you get my meaning.

People questioned her competence and ability to carry through. Her latest statements, showing a lack of awareness in how to actually carry out research on a subject gives those criticisms validity. Hence, she in fact did deserve those criticisms and herself, due to her latest statements, is to blame. Don't turn this into a straw man argument where anything placed against her is illegitimized as sexism and misogyny.

@BisonHero said:

@Binman88 said:

The backers kinda played their part in a real world "damsel in distress" situation.

Really? So a Kickstarter run by a woman is a "damsel in distress" situation?

I might've just characterized it as "a person with an idea asking for donations", but sure, feel free to belittle the motivations of all the backers. I'm sure they all just like that pretty Sarkeesian girl so much that they feel they have to save her from the horrible fate of not having enough donations.

She's turned herself into one of her own tropes by asking her (mostly male) backers for help. That's why this is all so ironic.

@CaptStickybeard said:

@BisonHero said:

@familyphotoshoot: Fine, I'm sure most of those 20 mil are pretty normal, so I probably should've just said /b/. And obviously there have always been corners of the internet as fucked up as /b/, but it's becoming more centralized, and you do see a mob mentality in places like /b/ where everybody suddenly decides to be dicks to a particular person or site, just for a lark.

/b/ isn't the big bad it used to be (it never really was). Now it's just 14 year olds from LE REDDIT and tumblr who think looking at pictures of dead people is funny.

tumblr was mostly where she got the initial donations in the first place more than likely.

@Turambar: ...I wasn't? I was just saying that regardless how you feel about her message or whatever, she still got way more shit than she deserved. which also got her more money than she deserved, but I digress!

@BisonHero said:

@Binman88 said:

The backers kinda played their part in a real world "damsel in distress" situation.

Really? So a Kickstarter run by a woman is a "damsel in distress" situation?

I might've just characterized it as "a person with an idea asking for donations", but sure, feel free to belittle the motivations of all the backers. I'm sure they all just like that pretty Sarkeesian girl so much that they feel they have to save her from the horrible fate of not having enough donations.

C'mon, as if a fair part of those backers weren't people disgusted by the zeitgeist of this poor woman being victimized by trolls and feeling that they were coming to teh rescue of the "damsel In Distress" by backing the project so overwhelmingly? The amount of white knights withouta critical bone in there body jumping to her defense at the slightest criticism of her methods would prove otherwise.

Plus her plea for help and that other people do her research for her is a "Damsel In Distress" situation in itself

This whole thing is ridiculous. Over 100k for this? For 12 videos? Why on Earth would people pledge real money for this?

Anyone who wasted their money on this boondoggle should have known better.

Has there been any sort of update that has suggested that she's working on the videos? I dunno, a teaser trailer or something?

@Apathylad said:

Has there been any sort of update that has suggested that she's working on the videos? I dunno, a teaser trailer or something?

No. She also continues to ignore the ever-increasing amounts of criticism against her.

Damn bummer for the people that helped fund her videos for whatever reason. Also you guys wasting your time with Animasta should know better at this point. Just let it go.

@Apathylad: She is asking the backers to send suggestions and do the work for her. Don't expect a video any time soon.

@laserbolts said:

Damn bummer for the people that helped fund her videos for whatever reason. Also you guys wasting your time with Animasta should know better at this point. Just let it go.

I dunno, governmentcheese and Levio91 got the message that they were posting dogshit eventually. Or were they just banned?

@Apathylad said:

Has there been any sort of update that has suggested that she's working on the videos? I dunno, a teaser trailer or something?

Here, have her review of Bayonetta (One of the best positive female role models in gaming) to tide you over in the mean time

@TeflonBilly said:

@laserbolts said:

Damn bummer for the people that helped fund her videos for whatever reason. Also you guys wasting your time with Animasta should know better at this point. Just let it go.

I dunno, governmentcheese and Levio91 got the message that they were posting dogshit eventually. Or were they just banned?

fuck you, what the hell did I even say in this topic that was SO TERRIBLE? I mean I know you accused me of mentioning rape in that other topic when I did no such thing so it's not like making shit up is beneath you, but tell me what I did that was so wrong in this topic.

Still waiting on someone, anyone, to bring up one thing, anything, that Sarkeesian has said that they take offense to. I see a whole lot of 'Well I'm a Feminist, but not that kind of Feminist' which I still fail to grok any meaning of.

Let's all just take a deep breath...

Gee, turns out she's clueless, who would have thought... Anyone stupid enough to give money for this woman's drivel deserves to be scammed.

My mind almost exploded when I saw how much money she received.

asldkjf

Fuck people.

Fuck.

@TeflonBilly said:

@Apathylad said:

Has there been any sort of update that has suggested that she's working on the videos? I dunno, a teaser trailer or something?

Here, have her review of Bayonetta (One of the best positive female role models in gaming) to tide you over in the mean time

Well, now you're just trolling.

If you all could just see the smile on my face. This is just fucking perfect.

Still waiting on someone, anyone, to bring up one thing, anything, that Sarkeesian has said that they take offense to. I see a whole lot of 'Well I'm a Feminist, but not that kind of Feminist' which I still fail to grok any meaning of.

Feminists gettin' mad. Everyone else...unmoved.

@chrissedoff: Really? Tell me what's negative about Bayonetta? She's a strong, independent and most importantly CAPABLE woman who is completely confident in herself and self assertive. On a superficial level she seems like a disgusting pastiche of cheesecake adolescent fantasy, but if you actually play the game and delve into the character's psyche, motivation and character growth you will easily see that she is on the same level of an Alyx Vance or Zoë Castillo. Or are you that superficial that you can't look past her shapely form and long legs?

@Brodehouse: You can't compare this to FTL. FTL had numerous videos showing development, they had a alpha/beta for paying customers, and much more. She hasn't provided anything. Also it being late isn't the biggest issue here, its the fact that she put out a survey basically asking people for suggestions, which defeats the original point of buying all of these games.

@Binman88: as far as I remember, she at least made her starting goal before reddit and 4chan got all up in her business, so this discussion would've probably still happened, just not as... heated.

@Hailinel: Sarkeesian put a fair amount of research into past videos. I'm thinking of her LEGO one, specifically. That one was apparently good enough that Forbes basically ripped her off entirely for an article on the exact same thing. Dropping the ball on her current video series is unfortunate, but from where I'm standing that's been her only misstep so far.

@TeflonBilly: And for every good thing you can say about Bayonetta, she's still a woman who fights with sex and was modeled after the director's sexual ideal for a woman. That's what they had to do (or more likely just wanted to do) to cast a woman as the lead.