Waypoint shutting down amid layoffs at Vice

Patrick said on their Dead Space stream today that at least some of them are going to be doing some form of podcasting together after Waypoint. He said that they have nothing concrete to announce but they may have more to say after Waypoint's done. He framed it as that there were some aspects of the job that he enjoyed and he would like to continue those things, especially since they talk a lot outside of work anyway. They also joked about whether or not they could keep their copies of vMix (which is streaming software if you're not sure what that is) after they leave.

A More Civilized Age also just announced that they brought Cado on as a dedicated producer for the show.

Also, if you haven't listened to the main Waypoint podcast since the announcement, you probably should. They've done the Conan post-cancellation announcement thing and fully allowed it to go off the rails in the best way possible. A couple shows ago Patrick joked that they need to finish answering every question from their question bucket email, which led to Rob sorting the question bucket by date in reverse order and asking 5+ year old questions from it between literally every segment of the podcast. It's pretty silly.

@ben_h: Honestly, the gallows humour approach is just what's needed. I love and admire how their approaching their final run. And it's so good to hear that at least some of this will (hopefully) continue post-June 2.

I've been thinking about this a lot for the past few days and I think you really nailed the dissolution I've been feeling about modern games coverage. I really miss the professionally crafted stuff, before everything was just streaming focused. I understand that streaming is faster, cheaper, and (despite my reluctance to admit it) a lot more popular. I may find it completely uninteresting, but people have become millionaires based off streaming so they have to be doing something right.

I guess it's just a part of getting older and having mass media move away from what you like in pursuit of the next generation of consumers. I've seen so many outlets that I followed shut down and every time it's like losing a friend. Where do we even go anymore if we want that kind of content?

Double shout-out for this. I only occasionally listened to the podcast as my time was reduced, but these last few episodes have just been a wonderful time and makes me hope that they're able to scrap something together in the future with this type of energy.

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/vice-media-group-files-chapter-11-protection-facilitate-sale-2023-05-15/

My apologies for the non-clickable link, but I’m on mobile. Just thought I should pop in to close the loop on the whole “Vice is slashing and burning divisions with layoffs as they crumble into bankruptcy status,” which was rumour a few weeks back but now confirmed.

Still very sad that it was preferable they just shutter Waypoint instead of try to include it in whatever bankruptcy-protection restructuring is going on.

I still can't believe that instead of selling Vice to Disney the execs decided to... just drive the company into bankruptcy.

"Boss, Disney's on the phone. They're offering us three billion dollars for the company." "But this crackpot analyst told me the company's worth five. Tell Disney to go away. I want a bigger payout."

* Eight years later *

"Oops"

...All these 'fuck capitalism' people... what exactly do you want? If the money isn't there, the money isn't there.

Are Waypoints owners obligated to keep throwing money at a website that is hemorrhaging money? Forever?

in light of vice's disasterous mismanagement company-wide and subsequent bankruptcy: lol

@kcin: ...So what you are saying is...

The money isnt there?

@bigsocrates: Unrelated to this thread but the "spoiler-laden" podcasts of GOTY have been great some years, maybe the last couple years when there hasn't been as many interesting games to talk about (or maybe they didn't have the time to give to some of the more interesting games) - but those podcasts have also been amazing because they have little to no restrictions on what they can speak about. They are essentially far more thorough and dynamic reviewing and discussion of the various games that year and having those minds hash it out some years was fascinating and entertaining.
Don't get me wrong, a few dust-ups were a bit ugly and awkward which followed the shittiest members of the community to get rowdy (especially with Abby that first year.) But on the whole the best of those discussions were where the great experience of a Gerstmann or Shoemaker or Navarro or Ryckert really got to breathe without the time constraints of a little review but with all of the intelligence of it. It's honestly unfortunate that a voice like Austin's wasn't a part of it for more of it, he has such a rich perspective on so many games. I think it's a bit odd that you would denigrate those when they display a lot of the strengths you also mention you cherish.

Otherwise I agree, I greatly prefer the more formal and organized concept of video game coverage. The "dude with a twitch page who streams whatever all the time and has some random new thing on youtube maybe" is just not compelling to me. Sifting through an endless page of Twitch archives hoping they aren't deleted, navigating a youtube creator page trying to recall if some video was there or YT just did another meaningless redesign that moves around some types of content, and so on. Sure, there's awesome video game youtube accounts, but I'd be lying if I have gotten into any of them as much as I have Giant Bomb.
I like a more comprehensible body of work, the attention GB has had in the past of keeping the website tidy and feature rich has been very satisfying to me. Waypoint did it a bit different, but still tried to have some continuity and I really liked most of their crew and a fair amount of their content over the years. It's unfortunate that more complete style of coverage is falling out of fashion, but it's the way of a lot of media itself nowadays - people would rather have a fun spotify playlist to throw on than absorb an album front to back.

@theodoricfriede:

@retris:

...Very well. See they spent too much money on candles, which put them in a budgetary deficit. Now, aside from cutting spending costs for candles, they may need to also spend less money on food and data, and, perhaps, even do their best lower the cost of utilities. If necessary, they may need to even move to a cheaper area.

You see, whats going on here, is that there isn't enough money coming in to set things right. Even if you cut all spending on candles, they still aren't making enough money not to cut costs. It's really basic economics!

Hopefully that helped point the way for you as to why certain spending projects, no matter how much we may want them, and even if they bring in a minor profit, have to be cut when there isn't enough capital to support them.

he's right, he's made a great point: when budgeting for golden parachutes, it makes sense to eliminate departments and dozens of jobs. glad you keep coming back to reiterate the world's most neutral take

On Waypoint's podcast today, they dropped some pretty big hints that something might be happening (At around one hour and 21 minutes in). Rob and Patrick brought up Waypoint+ and Twitch subs saying a bunch of goofy things like "If you, say, didn't cancel a sub, what could the future bring? Subs are powerful", and "we told them [the audience] to [cancel subs]. Now we're not doing that. Hold on. Maybe take your finger off the button". Rob made specific references to the Memberful account that Waypoint+ is run off of (Memberful is a Patreon competitor). Also, Patrick tweeted a week or two back asking vaguely if there were lawyers who might be able to give him advice about brand stuff. They also mentioned that their big final stream on Thursday will have announcements regarding what each of them is doing in the future and where to follow them.

It's hard not to speculate on this stuff but between the hints they've been dropping the last week or so and given that they've said multiple times now that there are people high up at Vice who like them and are very sympathetic about what happened to them, it wouldn't be shocking if they somehow managed to get a hold of the Waypoint brand and various accounts so that they could potentially continue in some way independently. Waypoint as a brand is worthless to Vice going forward and they weren't going to be making any more money from it anyway.

Even if they just were to continue to podcast as a side thing (which Patrick already said he wants to do in some capacity), that would be rad. If they didn't do that, I'd totally understand too. Patrick's got a family to think of now.

Patrick did an interview on MinnMax that sheds some light on the situation and the degradation of the media landscape. Among the tidbits is that Vice was apparently in talks to buy Giant Bomb a few years back, but obviously that never went through. Though with all the topsy-turvy things that's happened with this site and its various owners, I couldn't help but see similarities with what Patrick describes here.

Waypoint's final stream is starting right now. A bunch of previous staff are on it. They're talking about the history of it.

They haven't formally announced anything as of right now but they directly said this morning that they're gonna stream more together.

edit: It's confirmed. Vice turned over a bunch of stuff to the Waypoint crew who are now operating independently under the brand Remap. Their podcast is called Remap Radio.

Their Twitch is: https://www.twitch.tv/remapradio

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@RemapRadio

To subscribe to them (if you already were a Waypoint+ sub, it will continue. They got the keys to the account): https://www.remapradio.com

I'll add more links as I get them. Their podcast feed can be found on the major podcast apps as Remap Radio. They have a first episode up now.

From what they've said so far is that Rob, Patrick, and Cado will be the main cast. Ren will be with them for a few more months before transitioning into a game development job she was approached for that she will be starting in September (her goal has been to get into game development). It sounds like Natalie and potentially Danika will be guesting on things once in a while as well but both of them already work full-time elsewhere.

With the Remap Radio news now on centre stage I’d like to extend a gigantic fuck you to all the smarmy assholes in this thread giving giving Waypoint shit for being unapologetically themselves, and it being the reason they were cut loose.

Fuck Capitalism Go Home

@ben_h: Thank you for the links. It's great to hear they are gonna still work together. A 3 person streaming and podcast team has worked gangbusters for Nextlander. I hope the waypoint crew can find similar success.