@arabes: I was just about to ask that, heh.
Just shows you how invested in that part of the game I was. If Bethesda are being half-arsed about it, then so am I.
@arabes: I was just about to ask that, heh.
Just shows you how invested in that part of the game I was. If Bethesda are being half-arsed about it, then so am I.
I didn't have one for this in mind but then..then someone mentioned swords, and zelda and the memories!
Ok so, I'm no big fan of Nintendo. I liked the first, I likes Link to the Past, I like Links awakening most of all and..then I stopped playing them.
On topic. Links Awakening came out and..however old child version of me got lost..for a week straight..to the point of convincing his parents to call the Nintendo hint hot-line (back before the internet children!) because...I couldn't find the sword. In fact, I didn't know I was SUPPOSE to find the sword to advance. I tried every which way to get into that first dungeon. The hint line was a bust cause I didn't actually know what I was missing! Obviously, I eventually found out and went on to adore that game but man.
That's the worst story, but i wasn't even in middle school I don't think yet so whatever at the time so I can perhaps be forgiven. Much more embarrassing...FF8 was too hard.
Everyone looks back now and the complaint was "This is the most easily broken system of all time! My complaint was "help i can't proceed things keep kicking my butt!' I chalk this up to my finding the idea of spending 20 minutes to draw each spell an absolute mess, not realizing you could junk cards to get spells, and just in general being absolutely terrible at what is my preferred game genre. But man. "I couldn't beat FF8 cause I couldn't figure out the systems.." is certainly the most embarrassing moment. If not the most memorable.
When I first started playing Xenoblade Chronicles X, I totally didn't even know Arts or Skills were a thing until chapter 5 or something.
Yup.
Pretty much all of Portal 2.
Most definitely. I remember one level I was trying to figure out the solution for nearly 45 mins, getting so angry. Eventually I had to youtube it and the solution was so glaringly obvious. That game drove me insane... in a very good way.
In Path of Exile, it took me until about my third character to realise you could search the body of the first (short lived) NPC to get a starting weapon in the tutorial zone. I'd just been going at the thing with my fists the whole time.
More recently I built a ton of stuff in Fallout 4 without knowing that you could rotate pieces you were placing with the left and right triggers (learned it from the quicklook in fact). I manged to get everything into place by maneuvering my character to the right angle.
You're not alone. I did that for a good 4 or 5 hours until I saw how to rotate stuff in a video.
Ok, maybe it's not us. Maybe it's just poorly designed.
Here's a couple of cool tips for you as well. If you hold L1/LB and X/A and then use the right stick, you can lower and raise objects without having to look up or down. You can also move objects closer or farther away from you in the same manner. That helped me a lot.
Oh, and if you haven't already, you should learn how to clip things in the editing mode. It basically means that you create your buildings in the sky, and then move the whole thing by holding X/A. This way, you can move whole buildings, and they'll just clip straight through most objects. I made a treehouse in Sanctuary that way.
If you want specifics, check out Eurogamer for their advanced building tips in Fallout. Also a video for programming and powering stuff.
Thanks! I had no idea those were in the game either. I built a pretty dope base at Sanctuary, actually maxing out the number of objects you can place, and this would have made that all so much easier!
When I started bloodborne I didn't realize you got to pick a starting weapon from the messengers and tried fist fighting the werewolf for an hour and a half. I eventually almost killed it before turning to google and then it took like thirty seconds.
I did the same thing. Except I ran past it. Made it all the way the the boss and fought it with nothing but a torch. Unsurprisingly I died.
Probably will get mentioned but I had to share a similar reaction to Jeff about phoenix down.
I totally did.
Most recently it's invisible inc.
Invisible ink.
AAHHHH!!! What just happened to my brain!?
lmao come on guys. I'll still laugh at others for this stuff though.
I restart RPGs after about 10 hours. Once you see how the systems work it often hard to not see huge flaws in your early game choices.
I was Dan in MGSV. 60 gee dee hours n and that is when I figured out loadouts. that was only 40 hours after I stopped caring about loadouts.
That totally happened to me in that game, as well as a few other moves. Like calling in a helicopter where your cursor is.
Chances are, there is a simpler way to accomplish something than the convoluted idea you initially came up with to accomplish a task. "If I jump on this enemy, bounce off the wall, get stuck on the corner, fall and hit the B button at the exact time, I might be able to cross this hole. . . . . . . "Oh, there's a ladder right over there."
I restart RPGs after about 10 hours. Once you see how the systems work it often hard to not see huge flaws in your early game choices.
I reroll like crazy in more traditional RPGs these days but often just about any RPG, after seeing what gameplay will be like. That seems like part of an issue with RPGs more than any idiot move, as much as I like them. Also for certain types of players.
I've spent legit hours making parties in these games and then found out I don't like the game that much a little after so that's fun. That's probably an actual idiot move.
I didn't learn until after I'd finished Day of the Tentacle that if you need to transfer an item from character A to character B, you don't need to...
Apparently you can transfer items between characters by just dropping items onto their respective portraits.
That would have made the game SO much shorter for me.
Probably will get mentioned but I had to share a similar reaction to Jeff about phoenix down.
I still didn't get it as Jeff got it, because at the time I had never heard "down" to describe feathers before. As everyone was talking about this hilarious bombcast moment where Jeff is saying "Ohhh! DOWN!" I was still fucking confused.
@bbalpert: I think you just taught me that. Been a while since I played the game but I think I always did that.
Need for Speed: Underground. It was only after I beat the game (may have been just before that point) that I found out you could color your decals. Not sure why I never saw the option but I didn't, and I pretty disappointed with this non-existent restriction.
I have gotten frustrated/bored with at least 2 games and quit them right before the end. I know for sure I've done it with FF7 (after spending hours wandering that last cave system, I found a save point and quit. Returned a year later to discover it was the save before the final battle) and Twilight Princess (got bored with the castle I was in because it was the shadow world so I quit. Returned a couple months later and was finished with the game within 30 minutes)
@bananasfoster: you're not making me feel any better
I didn't learn until after I'd finished Day of the Tentacle that if you need to transfer an item from character A to character B, you don't need to...
Apparently you can transfer items between characters by just dropping items onto their respective portraits.
That would have made the game SO much shorter for me.
Yeah I definitely had this same issue the first time I played through it. Also pretty sure I had that same Phoenix Down revelation as about half of you.
World of Warcraft - was my first MMO and I didn't really understand the concepts of elite mobs and crowd control. Didn't bother to train Polymorph on my mage because I didn't see the point since "it'll just heal the enemy I am fighting, why would I ever do that?" Felt REAL dumb the first time I ended up in a situation where it was needed and I finally understood why.
More recently, not realizing in over 60 hours of Tales of Zestiria that levels are basically empty and you gain the majority of stats through equipment, skills, and herbs. I still didn't actually figure this out myself, only read it on a forum somewhere. That game's tutorials are so bad though that I am not sure how much I blame myself.
I was 23 years old playing through Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. Quite a few times you encounter Louisa Ferre throughout your escapades in the Schwarzwelt
All the signs of who this might be were there. The game could've only been more clear as to who this is if it outright told you. And yet... Mastema still had to spell it out for me to realize who i've been dealing with. In my defense it was my first mainline SMT game but still... Not my proudest moment.
When I realized several years too late that Rage Racer was actually a Ridge Racer game and that I shunned Ridge Racer for no good reason just because I was a dumb kid and thought only Rage Racer was any good.
A friend and I had an idiot moment last night. We were playing Dying Light and we needed to get into a lab building to turn a mission in. We were so used to the parkour that we spent about ten minutes trying to find a way into the building by crawling all over it until we realized that we were supposed to go through the front door lol.
I didn't figure out how to repair weapons in Fallout 3 until someone had told me after about 50 hours into the game. I went through the first 50 hours paying people to repair my weapons.
When I was young (maybe 7?) I played Kingdom Hearts and got stuck before the Ursula boss fight, which is about half-way through the whole game, because I couldn't swim past this water current to get to her. My older brother came over to help me and discovered that I hadn't equipped any abilities (which is how you get that extra swimming skill to reach the boss) nor any equipment past the default. To this day, we're both amazed I was able to get that far into the game.
I restart RPGs after about 10 hours. Once you see how the systems work it often hard to not see huge flaws in your early game choices.
I reroll like crazy in more traditional RPGs these days but often just about any RPG, after seeing what gameplay will be like. That seems like part of an issue with RPGs more than any idiot move, as much as I like them. Also for certain types of players.
I've spent legit hours making parties in these games and then found out I don't like the game that much a little after so that's fun. That's probably an actual idiot move.
The other issue is sometimes you just can't move forward without a re-role. I would enjoy having a game where you were rewarded for "accepting" the luck of the dice and the poor choices you make. But they have to make it worth it to play with what you have. One way would be to have quests, missions, items and tools that only bad characters have access to at teh start. So, if you roll what amounts to a weak village idiot character w/ a limp; you can have some fun with that character as you build up your stats.
I want to start a game with a character that looks like that guy to the left, and he isn't getting much better until "New Game+"
I didn't make the Professer Names = Wood and Pallet Town + Color name towns/cities connection in Pokemon (namely R/B/Y) until like a year ago.
@bananasfoster: But then you're talking about plot/story, not gameplay. I don't go into sequels of games expecting the game to explicitly show me the plot of the previous game. Like you say, that can result is just bad writing.
But I realized after playing Fallout 4 myself, and watching other people play it, the game doesn't even explain clearly what VATS is and how to use it. This being my first Fallout game, the only reason I knew about it was through osmosis from the gaming community. And I figured out how to use it only by exploring the buttons on the controller, and then looking at the button prompts at the bottom of the screen. I was able to do it, but that's not at all an intuitive way to figure out how to interact with VATS. A lot of other people I've seen that were streaming it discovered it only by seeing what Q/LB does, and saying "oh, there's VATS, did the game even mention it before now?". And it's not at all the case that I, or these other people, are new to video games.
But with something like settlements, that's a unique gameplay feature to Fallout 4 with many different mechanics in it. A feature that is not at all common to other popular first person shooters or light-RPGs. The best the game does is flash a small message in the top left of the screen about, say, linking things to power sources, and then disappears. For this feature, that's minimally helpful. It's not the case that every mechanic in every game needs a tutorial in the way that you might be thinking constitutes an in-game tutorial. Those messages do work for more basic mechanics, e.g. a message that shows up on the screen saying which button to press to aim a weapon. But not for settlements, or say, how to stagger an enemy in Final Fantasy XIII and how that is significant.
The FFXIII series is a good example of how to do tutorials well. They usually happen during the action/story intensive first 20 minutes of the game, so that the tutorial is not just some off-to-the-side thing you need to go through to continue playing the game. But, more importantly, it allows you to skip the tutorial. And since it was already taking place within the relevant story or action, it's not as if one is now forced to finish a tutorial that is only just a tutorial. Fallout 4 tries to do this, with Sturges asking the player to provide the proper resources for Sanctuary. But the game never explicitly provides an options for showing the player how exactly to construct a bed, or assign a settler to a resource. Players have to suss that out by looking at button prompts, or, again, going to the help menu. Players can "skip" this tutorial-ish missions in the sense that they can just walk away and do other stuff; but that includes new players as well, and it's not as if they'll know how to properly interact with the build system in settlements at that point. But that could be the case even if one was trying to finish those missions.
Games need in-game tutorials in a way that does not equate to comic characters saying "I need to stay away from that Kryptonite if I am to save the city! For I was born on a a planet that is different for Earth, and...". It's a thing that some games do better than others, one that I imagine developers are thinking of ways to deal with in each new game they make; because even sequels of games can be very mechanically different that their predecessors. And I'm not stranger to games that teach you mechanics in a help menu-type way. Metal Gear used to have fairly substantial manuals that explained all of the games mechanics. Could Metal Gear benefit from in-game tutorials? Maybe not, but that's why there are codec calls (which can be skipped), that explain that stuff. But even those aren't always immediately clear.
Also I don't really have a strong opinion about this issue to be honest. But it becomes noticeable in games like Fallout 4.
When I got to the point in Xenogears when it reveals who "Id" is, I was actually pretty surprised, but looking back on it later, I can't believe how obviously it was spelled out.
@bananasfoster: But then you're talking about plot/story, not gameplay. I don't go into sequels of games expecting the game to explicitly show me the plot of the previous game. Like you say, that can result is just bad writing.
But I realized after playing Fallout 4 myself, and watching other people play it, the game doesn't even explain clearly what VATS is and how to use it. This being my first Fallout game, the only reason I knew about it was through osmosis from the gaming community. And I figured out how to use it only by exploring the buttons on the controller, and then looking at the button prompts at the bottom of the screen. I was able to do it, but that's not at all an intuitive way to figure out how to interact with VATS. A lot of other people I've seen that were streaming it discovered it only by seeing what Q/LB does, and saying "oh, there's VATS, did the game even mention it before now?". And it's not at all the case that I, or these other people, are new to video games.
But with something like settlements, that's a unique gameplay feature to Fallout 4 with many different mechanics in it. A feature that is not at all common to other popular first person shooters or light-RPGs. The best the game does is flash a small message in the top left of the screen about, say, linking things to power sources, and then disappears. For this feature, that's minimally helpful. It's not the case that every mechanic in every game needs a tutorial in the way that you might be thinking constitutes an in-game tutorial. Those messages do work for more basic mechanics, e.g. a message that shows up on the screen saying which button to press to aim a weapon. But not for settlements, or say, how to stagger an enemy in Final Fantasy XIII and how that is significant.
The FFXIII series is a good example of how to do tutorials well. They usually happen during the action/story intensive first 20 minutes of the game, so that the tutorial is not just some off-to-the-side thing you need to go through to continue playing the game. But, more importantly, it allows you to skip the tutorial. And since it was already taking place within the relevant story or action, it's not as if one is now forced to finish a tutorial that is only just a tutorial. Fallout 4 tries to do this, with Sturges asking the player to provide the proper resources for Sanctuary. But the game never explicitly provides an options for showing the player how exactly to construct a bed, or assign a settler to a resource. Players have to suss that out by looking at button prompts, or, again, going to the help menu. Players can "skip" this tutorial-ish missions in the sense that they can just walk away and do other stuff; but that includes new players as well, and it's not as if they'll know how to properly interact with the build system in settlements at that point. But that could be the case even if one was trying to finish those missions.
Games need in-game tutorials in a way that does not equate to comic characters saying "I need to stay away from that Kryptonite if I am to save the city! For I was born on a a planet that is different for Earth, and...". It's a thing that some games do better than others, one that I imagine developers are thinking of ways to deal with in each new game they make; because even sequels of games can be very mechanically different that their predecessors. And I'm not stranger to games that teach you mechanics in a help menu-type way. Metal Gear used to have fairly substantial manuals that explained all of the games mechanics. Could Metal Gear benefit from in-game tutorials? Maybe not, but that's why there are codec calls (which can be skipped), that explain that stuff. But even those aren't always immediately clear.
Also I don't really have a strong opinion about this issue to be honest. But it becomes noticeable in games like Fallout 4.
I agree with you about VATS. I had the same experience, but I had play F3 before. I was like, "isn't VATS in there somewhere?" and had to muck about to figure out how to activate it. That is a great example of something that DOES need to be mentioned, if not necessarily tutorialized.
As for the difference in explanation in writing or in gameplay, I am a Designer ( art designer, not necessarily a game designer) and I study design as being a thing that exist independent of where you find it. I think the same design rules that apply to the composition of a painting apply to crafting a song and also apply to designing an ipad, give or take some nuance. I think the same underlying elements that make for bad writing (Bad design of words) make for bad game design.
When I was a kid, I got stuck in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars in the sunken ship because I couldn't figure out the password. I left the game for about a year before I came back to it later and figured it out.
And I felt like a fool.
I didn't learn until after I'd finished Day of the Tentacle that if you need to transfer an item from character A to character B, you don't need to...
Apparently you can transfer items between characters by just dropping items onto their respective portraits.
That would have made the game SO much shorter for me.
FML, this tip coming at me 23 years too late.
I'll have to remember this for the remaster.
@redhotchilimist: wait? Skullgirls? There's a pun in there?
@redhotchilimist: i STILL don't see how skullgirls is a pun
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