God of War Ending/Post-Game Discussion (Spoilers)

We seem to only have spoiler free threads so this seemed necessary. There are a lot of 'moments', foreshadowing, and story beats to talk about and I want to read other peoples thoughts. I have a lot of my own as usual but I would rather respond in bits than make a massive wall of text up front.

I just finished the story last night. Pretty good I guess? Problem is I'm feeling starved for more. I really enjoyed this world and I want to see so much more of it and their interpretations of these other characters so I'm left frustrated there isn't more. I was desperately hoping to get a brief tease of Odin or Thor towards the end of the story and you don't, besides the little easter egg clip with Thor but you can't really see him. Side note: How do Thor and Odin not just show up during any of these major moments where sons and brothers are being killed? While I'm glad they sort of prepared for multiple games, allowing this world to be fully realized, it is such a tease.

I don't know enough about Norse mythology to know exactly what the son being Loki has to do with Ragnarok potentially. All I know is he's another son of Odin? Something about destruction? Also the mech (Mechwarrior) and the marvel movies. I asked in the other thread but if anyone has suggestions for documentaries or educational series on Norse mythology, I'd love to hear them. I'm very curious to learn more than just the names and places I've seen in games and media for decades and how close God of War is sticking to the source material vs their own ideas.

Major foreshadowing with the world crossing stuff, the pictures of Egypt, Japan, and a third one that I did not recognize. Perhaps someone else knows what it is. This is pretty cool, specifically looking forward to samurai Kratos, but I was also worried they wouldn't continue the Norse mythology until completion. I don't think I want a specific game where Kratos jumps around between mythologies, but if they do a trilogy on Norse, finish it up, then its okay to move on. Slight issue I have with that is it becomes formulaic, which I kinda see happening here. This game we kill Baldur, next game we kill Thor, and finally we kill Odin? Rinse, repeat for each mythos? Ehhh..

80% completion shown on the map screen. I have not even touched the Muspelheim or Niflheim; the latter seems to be exactly the sort of thing I hate with a time limit. There is a trophy for fully exploring an area, Veithurgard, I'm not sure I've heard of in the game? Maybe its on the bifrost wheel or some section of the map and I didn't notice it. I've done two of the Valkyries as I stumbled across them but I don't exactly feel a strong pull to go finish them all because.. well I have no idea what the reward is and all those fights are a lot of potential frustration.

Overall a very high quality game, IMO. Not the must original structure or whatever, but I think it pulls many design inspirations from the last decade or two of games and melds them together extremely well and polishes the heck out of it. I thought the characters were all pretty good, aside from Atreus being slightly annoying to "oh my god throw him off a cliff please" when he becomes a little piece of shit for a time. This is why I don't want kids in real life. All the voice acting was done very well. I'm so used to Bethesda type games these days where they have three people doing the whole cast, so hearing unique voices for everyone, including the side quest stuff, was great. I swear the one spirit (who gets stabbed in back by his son) sounds like Vegeta's voice actor. Kate Beckinsale would absolutely play Freya in my movie adaptation.. along with Tom Hardy as Kratos because he's got the voice and look.

Anyway, time for other people to talk. Plenty of other stuff to talk about. I haven't touched on combat which people seem to go back and forth on?

The implications of Atreus being Loki are sorta hard to read into, considering how fast and loose they play with everything else. But, from a traditional stand-point Loki is associated with mischief and deception, often being portrayed as the villain. If I were to take a wild guess, they might be setting up for a God of War without Kratos, Loki taking over his role as the fury raining down on the gods. Either that or an ultimate showdown between Kratos and Loki, after Loki betrays Kratos etc. (or it could just be that they wanted a "shocking" end to the game)

As for the story itself, the Freya reveal was pretty much a dud for me. I mean, who didn't see that coming ? Also, after the cutscene where they said realm 30 times I sorta just checked out. I dunno, it's God of War doing God of War things. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing surprising either. It says something that I'm sitting here trying to remember what great moments there were and I'm already struggling to put together just the basic story beats. If anything, I think the one thing that'll stick with me about this game was watching a certain streamer try to take down the Valkyrie Queen on the hardest difficulty for hours yesterday.

A lot of the reveals are extremely flat if you know even a little about the mythology, even with a God of War lens over everything.

It was especially weird to just be given mistletoe arrows super randomly, which depending on said knowledge is either extremely silly or painfully on the nose.

I ended up a bit disappointed in the story in that it really didnt set up or flesh out why they are chasing Kratos. Dont get me wrong the story of traveling to spread the ashes and the interactions between Kratos and his son were great. Barring when Arterus turned into a little shit for about an hour. I just wish it took a bit more of a back seat to throw in more story/set up with the Norse Gods. I kept expecting Thor or Odin to at least pop up in a main story cut scene so i was kinda shocked when the credits rolled. I

Arterus being Loki was also kinda weird, and off putting, as is his being a giant. Was I not paying attention? Are the giants able to change size at will? Im not getting how that works. I guess they do the same thing in Marvel. Hey Im a half giant but Im normal size!

@john1912: The race of 'Giants' in Norse mythology is weirdly named because most of them are in fact just...the size of normal people. I think this comes up in one of the ambient dialogues you can get.

Just finished it. I’m excited to see what they do with the Loki reveal. I’m guessing the second game will be about the slow discovery of what Loki is destined to do (evil shit, killing Odin or something in Ragnarok right?), with Atreus and Kratos trying to turn him off that path. I imagine that game will introduce Thor and Odin, and end with the wolves eating the moon and Ragnarok beginning (which will probably involve the arrival of the Japanese and Egyptian pantheon as well).

I really liked the dialogue after the Loki reveal as well. Kratos describing the original Atreus as a heroic soldier who was always happy, Atreus saying he prefers that name. I imagine this new trilogy will end with Atreus subverting destiny and becoming a good guy after doing some truly evil shit.

@donutfever: The thing is though is that the things Loki is destined to do are largely kinda boring. He orchestrates the murder and permanent death of Baldur and is then hideously tortured for this act until Ragnarok whereupon he breaks free and then goes off to die killing another god in combat.

So yeah they can really take this in any number of strange ways now since they are not particularly close to following that aspect of the mythology.

@efesell: Yeah, I don’t know the real myth all that well but the stuff in Jotunheim implied that Loki’s mother, Tyr, and the Giants have plans for him that are original to the game (potentially involving other cultures since the Giants were aware of those). I also imagine that there will be a lot of new stuff involving Freya trying to get revenge.

In traditional mythology they aren't called giants at all. They are just Jotun or Jotne (which doesn't in any way mean giant). The reason they are called giants in English is because of translations and linguistic developments over the ages.

Who blew the horn?

There's a part where you're in the boat with Atreus, Mimir and Kratos and you hear the horn and the water recedes, as far as I know, only Mimir and Atreus can talk to it, and I doubt Thor or Odin strolled up for some tea and a chat.

I enjoyed the story a fair bit, and having been someone with a good knowledge of Greek gods the reveals were better since this time I didn't know any of the lore beforehand. I liked how during that one bit Atreus wouldn't follow my commands whatsoever. That said, I thought it all ended a bit abruptly. I thought we would at least see Odin.

As for the combat, I really never liked the Axe stuff. Most of the time I could play conservatively and rely on distance shots whilst Atreus helped pummel them down. The Blades combat was much more fun and I got into the thick of it a lot more because I actually wanted to.

Overall I enjoyed the game a lot and think it's an immense accomplishment to reinvent God of War to the standard that they have, but I don't think I'm quite as enamoured as most critics (including Dan) seem to be.

Interesting. Do we assume Loki is indeed Kratos son? Or is there a later reveal that she lied to Kratos and he is a son of Odin? Thus allowing for another major issue for Kratos to deal with: I raised him as my son and felt that way about him, but in reality he is not and is a constant reminder of her lie and deception, and potentially becomes a big evil asshole in the future. Gods lying being a common theme here. I have no idea if Loki is supposed to be a son of Odin in the source material. I will say that I had forgotten about the Loki name so it was a nice surprise at the end for me. I frequently see most twist and turns coming from a mile away but this one I did not.

The mother I assumed was a god from the start, but I had no idea what god. I figured the knife, the chests and other objects in the world with that mask was some hint to the type of god she was. Then they said she was mortal and I thought ah okay.. I guess that goes against what I was thinking. Then the Giant reveal and I was like ahhh okay good, an additional layer of mystery here. Still wondering about the masks and the knife acting almost like a key or if I'm thinking too much about it.

What exactly was shown on that last Giant mural behind the cloth? Kratos saying ominous things. All I could absorb in the limited time was Loki and what looked like a snake or white thing coming from his mouth?

I know nothing of the significance of this Mistletoe stuff in the lore, but having said that I am happy with the result. My best guess when Freya said the arrows were bad was that they were being tracked by Odin. I figured the collectible ravens were green and these were green sooo.. I don't know. I figured maybe the Dwarves were actually working with Odin for some reason which is why he was supplied with the arrows. Then Freya took the arrows minus the small piece left in Loki's quiver strap. So I had an eye roll moment of "ugh of course they miss the small piece which will continue to track them." Luckily, none of this turned out to be true and it was Baldur's weakness which.. I know nothing about so whatever.

In terms of best moments: The first encounter with The Stranger was awesome I thought. Really fun fight sequence and really ramped up my excitement for the game going forward. I just thought Baldur, who I had never heard of besides "Baldur's Gate", had an awesome, unique but grounded kinda street thug look to him but then really throws down with Kratos, this brawny, bald painted, grumpy dude. This is why I was eager to see what Thor and Odin looked like, or other major characters. Freya was also very cool.

The moment where Kratos says he has to return home and get a weapon, I got really giddy and I'm not even a particular fan of the old games. I thought maybe they'd actually have a brief section where they show how he traversed worlds and go back to Greece just briefly. Just to see how it'd look with these graphics etc. BUT, you do just return to your home in the woods. Even still, when you take those things out and walk outside to tear shit up, I had a huge grin on my face the whole time. They feel much faster and broader attack range compared to the axe. Absolutely destroying everything.

The first time the World Serpent comes to life, the sense of scale, the water level lowering and revealing this whole open world aspect to the game. Fantastic. Terrifying.

The closing fight with Baldur was decent but particularly the moments where you are tag teaming this guy with your son, even if they are quick time events, looked great. That was the first time I actually liked Loki and thought he was a bad ass.

Generally there is lots of stuff I liked about the game while other aspects were less impactful. There is a lot of information to take in. Even now, having finished the story and sailing around, Mimir is dropping some small knowledge bombs that answer some questions. I am getting somewhat annoyed by the high level enemies in the post-game. I really wanted that sense of being a bit overpowered while mowing through stuff but that isn't quite happening. Having four level 7 things thrown at you, doing massive damage to me isn't quite fun. I just wanna wander around! And fuck those Dark Elves man.. ugh. The Elf Lords and the Witch ladies. Full on game ruining pieces of garbage.

@finstern Excellent question. I had forgotten about this.

@seikenfreak: The mistletoe thing is one of the great dumb things of mythology as it is the one thing to not swear an oath to never harm Baldur and thus became the only thing capable of harming him through ridiculous trickery.

So when Sindri is just like and here have these Mistletoe arrows! I'm like wow yeah okay that is one way to do it I guess.

@seikenfreak: The mural showed Kratos dead, in the arms of Atreus, and Atreus either shouting some sort of spell or curse, possibly trying to resurrect him. I'd say it foreshadows what I already hinted at earlier, Loki taking over as the protagonist for the series.

Whats the deal with the Freya boss battle? I thought she was not allowed to fight or defend herself?

@finstern: If we’re thinking of the same part, when you’re inside the serpent, it was Baldur right? He said attacking it was the best way to get Kratos’ attention.

The mural at the end shows Loki spitting out a snake, which is most likely Jörmungandr.

I believe Loki is supposed to be the adopted son of Odin. The mural at the end shows Kratos Norse name as being Farbauti, who is Loki's father in Norse Mythology.

@donutfever: No that was Baldur beating the World Serpent up I guess. There is a point somewhere before there, I think you're sailing to Freya's place for some story reason and you hear the horn in the background. I think it's when Atreus gets sick and he is at her place, because when you get the boy again and you leave the area, they comment on how the boat has washed up on shore because someone summoned the serpent, and then you have the first serious talk with Atreus about Kratos being a god I believe.

@radioactivemoses: It's not (just) a snake, it's a long string of runes connected with lines above and below, as you see all over the other artwork as well. You also have Atreus saying "we're so close to the end now", and then it pans over to the mural and Kratos goes "Yes, yes we are".

@ares42: I think it's Atreus resurrecting Kratos as the World Serpent.

Ending fell flat to me; not sure why some reviewers were talking about getting emotional at the end. When the credits popped I was shocked; like a lot of other people have said, I surely expected at least Thor to intervene at the last moment. For how long this game was, it sure feels like it's missing a third act. I suppose if it's going to borrow a ton of things from every great game of this generation, it may as well borrow that aspect from a few games as well.

That said, I loved the combat, I loved the puzzles (maybe because I'm normally bad at them and I solved all but two or three I came across in this game) and I loved the surprise reveals, especially the Blades of Chaos. The guy who did the voice for Baldur created a really compelling character, it hinted at some stereotypical, "look, it's the crazy guy" tics but never fully succumbed to them. All the voice acting was really good other than Atreus, actually. A lot of Atreus' dialogue was a little cringeworthy for me honestly, it reminded me of some of the goofy, world-breaking scripts Bungie wrote for the Ghost in Destiny 2. I did really enjoy Kratos and his attempts at fathering the child, though, and I get that Atreus was not supposed to seem much like Kratos' son. I think they didn't find exactly the right way to present that information, though.

I'll likely attempt to tackle a lot of the endgame content at some point; like I said, I personally really enjoyed the combat, and I feel like the Blades and a lot of the end game runes/armor hadn't even opened itself up to me yet. I got through the first four waves of the volcano world and had a really, really damn good time with all those combat challenges before I decided to get back to the story, and same goes for the two Valkyries I defeated in the course of the story. That said, I do wonder if I'll hold onto that motivation for long now that the story is complete; I get that these fights are going to be more technically demanding than almost anything I found in the main story, but now that I'm not worried about some epic face off with another god down the road, is there really a point other than being able to say I did it?

Ultimately, I'm also kind of glad the kits were mostly cosmetic; as I leveled up I clearly felt a difference in power and I attempted to mostly spec myself in a direction I enjoyed (which was fairly balanced; at end game I'm level 6 with 165/113/178/64/57/43 for a stat line) but I can't help but look at how all those bars are half full and wonder if there are builds in this game that push more of a min/max style. I will say this game did the thing I often feel let down by in some loot games lately where each new set of armor is just a redressed version of the old armor. Made it a lot harder to get excited about anything other than Tyr's kit and the Royal Dwarven kit, which were basically all I wore through the game other than the constant upgrades in the first few hours.

Overall this game is clearly my game of the year at the moment and I think it'll be hard to top, but I'll also get in any line that's buying a ticket to the "I'm not so sure this story was actually any good" panel so if something were to come along and blow my mind in that regard while still being fun to play/interact with, it could get knocked down a peg or two. The combat was so, so good though. I'm also kind of glad to put the controller down, give my hands a rest and catch up on the podcast backlog I've built up over the past week.

@nodima: I agree with a lot of what you said. I think the combat has a steep learning curve if you want to look/feel good at it but I'd say I was able to brute force my way through on Normal difficulty, dying a lot to specific (bad) elements of the combat engagements where you are being deliberately overwhelmed. Finished the story up at Level 5 and "Strength/70" (is that some kind of overall rating?) with individual stats of 148/124/140/63/46/28.

There are moments where I somehow pull off a string of moves in a way that feels amazing, deliberate, and natural like it was designed to be played that way. An example I didn't put together (even though it seems extremely obvious) until late in the game was the axe throw rune Tyr's Revenge that has it spinning in place on the target and then slamming down and using the Returning Storm level 5 move. It's incredible to use the rune and chuck the axe, lock down that target, maybe land in a couple punches on some other target, sprint at the axe target just as it finishes the rune, leap into the air and recall the axe into a big ground smash on the target. It feels so good to nail that. To me it shows that there is a very high skill ceiling because there are a ton of different runic attacks, plus all the different weapon skills. I hardly used a lot of it just because the combat is so frantic that I'm almost always just hitting whatever is closest with whatever I have.

All that being said, you also mention the Challenge Mountain/Muspelheim which I went to for the first time today after writing up these posts. Kinda cool at first? I really like how they've made the challenges interesting and gave them unique gimmicks, but I hate stuff that is timed and then I got to the third set of trials and guess what? Its got a stupid Dark Elf Lord.. and hes got a special shield! So you can only, temporarily harm him when his grunts are killed.. F'n A man. Take an enemy that feels broken to begin with and make it even more unfair. After that, plus dealing with the high level enemies preventing me from exploring, the timer thing on Niflheim, and the story already being done, I put the controller down and now I'm left with this feeling like.. What's the point? Why should I get pissed off at these Valkyries? I don't always shy away from a challenge, I love the Souls games, but this feels kinda blah now. I never felt like the gear made a big difference to my survival, it was more me just bashing my head against tough fights until I cleared it like a pro.. So struggling to get better gear (just seems like the Epic stuff is left) which I don't think will make a difference so I can struggle on more enemies?

I want more story, characters, areas to explore ;_; I want to have more fun with the combat and get better at it, but that isn't fun against some of these stupid Elf Lords or double teaming Witches that spam hard to see, hard hitting ranged moves. I want to return to Alfheim and see what stuff I missed or can get access to with later game tools but ugh I can't stand fighting the Elves.

I also had a special disdain reserved for the Dark Elves (and their Lords), but I think I cracked them in a way you haven't yet to the point I was always more disappointed in myself than the game when they got my number (which, I should say, was zero times once I got the Dwarven armor set and had the Blades leveled to 4). I was surprised with myself that I beat that round the first time I came against it, with my basic strategy being one I used in the "enemies recover extremely quickly" round as well. I just kept my weapons at bay and punched the hell out of them while spamming shock arrows from Atreus and I tended to dispatch the minions pretty quickly. One thing I really appreciated about my mini-marathon through the first 2/3rds of those trials was I finally learned just how valuable the stun locking and violent kills can be when you're surrounded in a swarm or just want to get things over with.

It's also probably important in that fight to realize the lackeys, like a lot of the boss fights, are specifically tied to either a timer or segments of the health bar, so if you're knocking them out quickly, you get a pretty decent amount of time to wreck the Lord. Also, I did say the runes and armor seem kind of frivolous, but I did try to have as many Rage Burst and Rage perks as I could and could usually pop Spartan Rage for health regen and major damage about two times per fight for the last third of the game.

@john1912: They are chasing Kratos because they think he is a Giant who can show them how to get to Jotunheim. When Baldur shows up at the beginning, his dialogue doesn't really make any sense unless you know that he is actually looking for the wife who he thinks is a giant. As he doesn't really know who Kratos is, he assumes Kratos is the giant he was sent to find.

As to the reason why he just shows up, I can only assume its because Kratos cut down the trees that were providing a magical barrier to that part of the forest.

Also as others have said, the size of Giants is directly addressed in the game. They aren't all actually giant. Giant is just English translation of the Norse mythos term for the people that were borne from Ymir.

I feel myself becoming rather bitter and angry about GoW post-story. I already kind of talked about it before but I keep trying to pick it up and mess around with it for fun, and instead I'm left pissed off and annoyed. Tried that Dark Elf Lord challenge again a few times and still barely get anywhere so screw that place. Sampled a couple more Valkyries and walked away after only a couple tries on each because I could see this hurdle ahead of me and that didn't seem fun. I returned to explore Alfheim and The Mountain area again to wander which was kinda fun. You end up getting lost in this maze of overlapping sections from different parts of the game. Sometimes you can't go through certain spots or use certain elevators so you have to back track a bunch. I still enjoyed it anyway because of the atmosphere and visuals. So much to look at in the world. Looked over my gear again, it is pretty much just the Epic tier pieces left which of course are from Muspelheim and Niflheim stuff.. So I gave Niflheim another shot and NOPE.. Can't even make it through the first set of enemies reasonably fast for the time limit, and it keeps throwing Dark Elves at me.. So fuck this.. I think I'm fed up with the game, continuing to play it is only souring my opinion.

Last thought I had was turning it down to easy to see if that made it any more fun. Ugh I want more to do in this world.

Really interesting point on cutting the tree. Did not consider that. I kinda gathered Kratos being pursued was due to getting to Jotunheim, or a object stored there, but its not super clear. That gave me expectations Odin would show up if nothing more then a face in the sky when you reached Jotunheim to give some context. And NOTHING happened. I mean inserting that could off set and spoil the moment the father and son moment the game tried to create but still. So I wasnt super happy with the ending. Which kinda sucked as it is a really great game in so many aspects.

I generally get the giant thing being lost in translation, but then who was the corpse Freya controlled during last fight? I thought that was supposed to be one of the Giants from Jotunheim. They really should have just ditched the giant aspect.

If you are getting shit on your armor/weapon level might not be high enough? The game does have some poor damage scaling. I dont know numbers, but if your level 3 and fighting a level 5 enemy their damage is like +50%. Which really makes it feel like upgrading your items doesnt translates to the real world gameplay.

@john1912: I posted my stats a couple posts ago I think. Axe is maxed out. Blades are lvl 4 but no idea where you get the last Chaos Flame. I assume its from Muspelheim at the end or something. But yea I looked over my stuff and I can't really do anything else except try and get the Epic armor. Runic skills are maxed out (didn't realize you could level these up til the end.) They are throwing level 7-8 enemies at you almost always and I seem to do reasonable damage to them, but I die in a couple hits. So when four enemies are spamming me with crap, it's a nightmare.

One of the complaints I keep forgetting to mention that other people have brought up was how enemies can constantly interrupt you and often your attacks don't interrupt them. This is one of the reasons why I hate the Elves and the Witches. You hit them a couple times and they decide to just vanish away or hit back while I'm using my sweet Runic skills. I'm just not a huge fan of how the enemies pile on you, at least with this very tight camera angle. The attack direction indicators are useless to me because I just don't see them and thus don't pay attention to them. So much flash stuff is happening on screen and everything is so fast that it just isn't viable for me. It reminded me of how, I think it's the Batman games, where the game sorta slows down and gives you the button prompt to counter an attack coming from behind. NOT that I think that is a great idea here because it slows down the flow of the combat, but it just shows that there is a reason why we've had the corny enemy attack queue for so long because it can be very annoying otherwise.

@seikenfreak: Im in Muspelheim now trying to get upgrade for Blades. its reward for last fight I think. 20 various basic enemies where you cant get hit. Its pissing me off sooooo much. Ive been doing it for couple hours :-/ I could wreck them, but no hit is tilting me soo bad. I hate no hit BS. Thats play Arena mode only BS. Dont lock my items on that shit.

Im playing on normal, which usually isnt enough in most games. This game can be really tough. I dont see anything as too out of whack balance wise other then level scaling honestly. Im fine with counter hitting but it could be more telegraphed and counterable then just your fucked. I generally like to beat my head on the wall for this stuff though if I like the game. Was HUGE fan of Ninja Gaiden.

@section09: everything you said is correct. Baldur shows up looking for a giant, not any in particular just a giant because Odin tasked him with tracking down the last of them to obtain passage into Jotunheim. When he shows up at their home, it is because Baldur sensed a giant who he believed was Kratos not knowing Atreus (Loki) was under the floorboards.

And you’re right about their presence being known because the trees his wife marked were cut down. Kratos confirms this in one of his dialogues. And she did it knowing it would lead them away from home and on their journey.

@john1912:

@john1912 And to address the giant that Freya summoned in the final fight. That is Thamur the dead giant corpse who fell on his own stake. The one you saw early in the game. He was just reanimated the same way that Mimir was I assume. And they already mention in game that not all giants are actually GIANT but there are those who are. If you think about Giant meaning a race and not just size then it’s easier to understand.. even barely :b

I do kind of agree with you about the end game expectations. I really didn’t think the game would end when it did without another god like Odin or Thor being in the way at least a little bit. But hey what can you do. I hope that you did return to Kratos home after the credits rolled though! If not then you should do that immediately.

To anyone who believes Atreus is not related to Kratos... Cory Barlog, the games director already confirmed that Atreus is his biological son. The only way he can be considered a step son to Odin in the game is because he is a god born in the Norse realm. Also does anyone else think Atreus is gonna have two personalities in the future? Good side who we all know as Atreus and his counterpart Loki? When they entered Helheim together this thought crossed my mind. At one point Kratos says something and Atreus immediely answers back in a smart ass way. After Kratos makes a comment back towards him Atreus says it wasn’t him. If this is true then maybe in future installments Odin will be able to play to Loki’s side and make him his “step son” to keep with Norse myth since they’ve done an amazing job of it already.

@thehighchief: It could be that Atreus has a split personality, but I viewed it as him realizing how arrogant he had become after finding out he was a god and trying to deny it to himself.

@radioactivemoses: I do understand that because he does see the image of himself stabbing Modi in the neck and begins to realize his ways and says I couldn’t have done that. It’s just the extra bit of dialogue between them after the image fades when Atreus makes the comment I mentioned earlier. But then again the bit I heard from Atreus could have been a comment still referring to his arroagant self from earlier and not his snappy response to the comment made by Kratos. I’m actually gonna try to find the scene right now so I can see for sure.

@radioactivemoses: okay so I realized what happened. Right when you climb the first path in helheim with Atreus a helheim shadow speaks and says “he should pay for what he did to mother. But Kratos doesn’t see the image so he says “boy?” In which Atreus replies “it... wasn’t me.”

I still wanna stand by the split personality thing considering the Atreus trailer “A call from the wild.” There’s the image of Atreus grasping his head while the image of two serpents with runes are on either side of him. Unless these serpents are meant to portray his mother and fathers guidance I think it’s the Norse God and Greek God fighting within him. Also fun fact the serpents somewhat resemble the one we see on the mural painted by his mother in Jotunheim.

@seikenfreak: The axe maxes out at level 6 and the blades at level 5, you can buy the last blade upgrade item from the dwarves after the first round of Muspelheim challenges.

The game is fantastic, but I've got some gripes with the gameplay that keep Monster Hunter at GOTY spot for now.
The combat has some issues (camera, long animations with no i-frames etc) and general exploration/traversal (I think the dungeons are a bit dull to navigate). Also, the "no camera cuts" thing is a bit of a detriment, but at least the two most common hidden loading screens are pretty to look at.

As for speculation about the mural, like said before; It prophesizes Kratos dying during Ragnarök, Loki possibly ressurrecting him as Jörmungandr and then sending him back through time (Mimir and Atreus talk about how Jörmungandr has seen Ragnarök and went back in time, I don't know if that is true to real Norse mythology).
Loki is the father of Jörmungandr in actual Norse mythology, but that wouldn't fit with the story of the game without time travel or some such. Also, when you first talk with the Serpent, Mimir says that it knows their loss and will help Kratos and Atreus. Mimir also later reveals that Jörmungandr recognized Atreus.
The one who blew the horn could've been Loki from the future, but I dunno.

@john1912: Hang back and use your lightning arrows on most enemies, use stun arrows on werewolves and then grapple them. When it is just you and the ice ancient, keep your shield up, keep your distance and throw your axe. ALWAYS spam your arrows. You'll get it.

Once you do all 5 arenas you fight the valkerie. Once she is defeated you can go again, but you only need to defeat THREE of the arenas to get 3 keys (i usually do 2,3,4) and then instead of the valkerie there is a random encounter which can be easy or tough (tough being don't get hit, easy being kill 50 enemies in 8 minutes)

I think I like the bit that Kratos is a wrench in mythology. He destroys the Greek pantheon because he's angry and starts doing the same for the sake of his son and his dead wife's request. He even alters prophecy itself because all the murals at the end misname Atreus. Mimir also remarks on this by saying Kratos advanced prophecy by 100 years. The plot of the second game literally hinges on changing fate and defying them. Several times him and Atreus remark that fate is a lie made by the gods. There's an underlying theme also from discussions about Odin that obsessing over the future will drive you mad.

Speaking of Odin, I'm fine he didn't show up. He's kinda painted as a paranoid coward that makes his sons do all the dirty work. Almost all of the lore murals have Thor killing but a severe lack of Odin doing some legwork. Odin is seen as a scared, insecure figure and that's even more apparent when the giants he's so scared for turn out to all be dead.

I'm really hoping they use this story as a springboard to other pantheons and don't dwell on the Norse stuff too much. As curious and engaged as I was about the Norse mythology, I cared more for the main story in honoring Faye's last wishes. When Kratos and Atreus realize Faye meant "No, I meant the highest mountain in ALL the realms" I loved that after the initial "That can't be what she meant!" they resolve themselves to going ahead with an impossible objective not even the All-father could solve. Baldur, Thor, Odin, they're all just obstacles like the Black Breath to Kratos and Atreus. Kratos doesn't want to keep his cycle of revenge going. Barring the death and/or capture of his son, I don't see Kratos trying to mess with the Norse gods anymore (which makes me think the Thor scene might be written off as just a vision like Kratos seems to do). They need to do something that's as personally engaging as honoring a dead person's wishes rather than revenge for revenge's sake for the sequel.

I loved just about everything that happened in the story. All the glimpses to the past of Kratos gave me a huge grin and/or made me shiver up in the best way possible. I do wonder how well those things worked for someone who has never even touched the series before this one.

The minus part is that I was left craving for more and it pains me to think about that GoW: Ragnarök Begins/Thor’s Electric Bogaloo might get teased at E3 2019 and then *maybe* come out in 2020 as a swang song for PS4, just like GoW 2 did on PS2 before switching up generations. Just give it to me next week already!

I’ve loved the combat just about all the way, though the dark elf lords are easily the one enemy that make me want to break my controller. Reading from above of yet another variation with a bs shield is getting me worried, but we’ll see.

...and speaking of dark elves, I guess they didn’t really offer any follow-up to the boss saying ”You chose the wrong side.” when you kill him. Maybe setting up something for the sequel with light elves or just a throw-away line?

@glots: The Dark Elf's line about "it's the wrong side" is a moot point because of COURSE to him you chose the wrong side. Mimir says the light of Alfheim changes hands constantly, suggesting that at some point the Light Elves gain enough power to violently overthrow the Dark Elves until the cycle continues. There are a couple of lore markers that suggest the Dark Elves raid Midgard settlements from time to time also so they aren't the misunderstood creatures that line meant to evoke. It also doesn't matter since they fought against Kratos first and he had to get the light no matter what.

I don't see how the game got so many perfect scores given a few minor combat/camera problems and the ending felt very incomplete to me. The good part is that I want more now (right this second!!!), but it's also bad since it felt flat too. A God of War Norse game only having two major/popular gods (Baldur and Freya) and no Odin, Thor, Hel, Tyr, Fenrir, etc is an automatic letdown to me. That's even more so given they probably say Thor and Odin at least 300 times each. It feels like they held the major gods and deaths back too much, since they want this to be a trilogy, but other than the Loki twist, they didn't really setup a sequel. What's from stopping them from leaving the area? They have no reason to stick around and fight Odin and the others, but if they left and went Mayan, Egyptian, or whatever this would feel incomplete.

It's a great game, but they held back too much in terms of the very limited cast and it feels a little too impersonal between Kratos and the Norse gods. The Loki twist doesn't really mean much, since giants being bad and Thor/Odin being good is just a current mainstream idea, actual Norse mythology makes them seem like huge a-hole, just like this game.

Yea, when I went back to Alfheim Mimir did talk about the Elves some more. Pretty much what burncoat said. Sort of feels like neither side is right or wrong, it's just an endless cycle. There was also a piece of lore at the main entrance inside, right in the middle of the floor so I can't imagine it was there originally, but its a note from the Light Elves saying they need to find Faye otherwise the war will never end? Says they all left Alfheim to go search for him and implied he may be being held in Asgard.

Ugh all these other areas I want to see. Every realm we've seen has been pretty awesome looking so part of me wonders how much more awesome the city of Asgard could look if it sort of rules over all this. Is there a realm of water/sea? Would love to see that.. big waves and storms etc. Or maybe it could look like some kinda underwater world.

And I am definitely more interested to see Kratos as a character just move through these various mythologies rather than the focus being him destroying everything again. What I liked about his character here is that he just wanted to be left alone. He didn't set out to kill gods or anything. He just wanted to fulfill his wife's dying wish and then these assholes have to harass them. I like how he firmly believes all the gods are bad but he is meeting some and maybe he is questioning that, which potentially leaves him vulnerable again. And for those mentioning it, yea the circle around their part of the woods was a ward made by the mother. She specifically marked those trees to cut down which created a gap in the ward (which they comment on when viewing it from above later.) Then Baldur is able to find them and enter. Someone already explained this though.

An update on my end: Thank you to @briarpack for mentioning the axe goes to 6. Made me turn the game on to check it out and then set the difficulty to easy. And just like that, the game was fun again! The jump from Easy to Normal seems somewhat significant. It'd take me half the curse timer to clear the first set of enemies before and afterwards I was able to get fairly far in on my first try. Then I got a piece or two of the Epic armor and that helped even more. My third attempt I was able to reach the Valkyrie and had a fight that felt pretty good:

I certainly wouldn't say I'm good at the combat but taking some of that stress off with constant dying meant I could have more fun and really tear shit up. Now I've cleared the entire Niflheim area out with all the chests, realm tears, got the Ivaldi armor set and I feel motivated to go onto Muspelheim again and maybe even kill all the Valkyries. I could probably try bumping the difficulty back up to normal buuuut.. Nah. I've got nothing to prove. Who cares.

Oh and I super hope they bring the Valkyries back as actual story characters in a future game. It'd be incredible to see some insane cutscene of them vs Thor or Odin or whomever. Bad ass designs.

I might also change the difficulty to easy, just to have a good time, since on Hard I got my ass handed to me pretty often when I explored the world after the story and then again even on normal.

Does the game explain in some side-quest/lore writing how Brok actually became blue? Because I listened to the Lost Pages of Norse Mythology podcasts before playing and the explanation from his brother isn’t the truth, though that is probably obvious since right after he goes ”Don’t ask him about it.”

Also another thing that popped to my head, which I might just remember wrong after almost a week, but was the magical boar suppose to be a person who had steadily lost his human mind and had become an actual boar? Or more importantly, was it a person of some importance if so?

@burncoat: Point of contention: The mural does not misname Atreus. Atreus is Loki. Atreus' mother, Faye, is the same person as Laufey, Loki's mother, and I believe the mural names Kratos as Fárbauti, who is Loki's father.

Just think of Atreus as Loki's gamertag.

@glots: Brok's brother explains at some point that Brok doesn't even use gloves and "Guess what happens after you work with silver long enough. You turn blue permamently".

I'm just wondering what happened to all those poors giants. Their bodies were all over the place and Atreus didn't even give a single fuck. What the hell

@bannedretu: I thought those were statues in the valley at the end since they kinda looked like rock and most giants are human sized.

@john1912: They were not originally after Kratos, they were after his wife, which explains Bladur’s “I thought you’d be bigger” line. He was looking for Faye because they knew she was a giant and wanted access to Jontenheim but he didn’t know she was dead.

@deathstriker: I'm quite certain there was also blood all over the place and Arteus said something like "So they're all dead after all":/

Oh boy, finally beat the Valkyrie Queen after spending way too long stubbornly trying to beat her with my setup as-is. I finally grabbed one more piece of Ivaldi's Cursed Armor, lit all the braziers for a -5% damage from Valkyries, and gave Atreas the armor that makes him heal you, and she was no problem at all.

Kind of in the mood to play the game on God of War now, but I've heard it's not very fun and all the enemies have far too much health. Anyone here have experience with the mode?

@deathstriker: I guess I didn't think it was incomplete, because from the start it's made very clear this a story about the relationship between Kratos and Atreus. Although admittedly that story didn't grab me. And I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed they made so little use of that pantheon. I was kinda meh on Baldur and still confused as to why Freya could fight, even-though it's mentioned she can't due to the curse. But the ending got me hyped for the sequel.

@axersia: Not sure about too much health, it's just enemies can level up if not killed quickly