God of War is a betrayal of the series

What I liked about God of War was the spectacle, the fast-paced beat 'em up action, the grand environments, the (linear) exploration, the over the top brutality, the epic score, the puzzles. How they all combined to create a mythic adventure. I would have carried those things over to a reboot, set in a different pantheon with a different deity of war as the protagonist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_deities

This zoomed in walk and talk movie game isn't God of War.

Over-the-shoulder cameras are better for slow, mechanical shooters. You can barely see the enemies around you as you're hacking. The field of view is so small that the player will have to adjust the camera constantly. The standard attack is probably bound to R1 to compensate. They've also locked the camera to the enemy like in Dark Souls. You can tell by the way it turns upward when the boss raises his foot.

https://youtu.be/CJ_GCPaKywg?t=4m36s

It will have some of the same camera problems as the slower-paced Dark Souls. Even when Kratos was up against many enemies in the new trailer, the field of view was small. It looks like they'll wait their turn if they're not in the zoomed picture. At one point, I noticed them moving from the left closer to the center, despite Kratos aiming all his power there.

https://youtu.be/gOE2BVRCUkM?t=2m8s

With the camera pulled back, the player has a better view of the action and the environment and can more easily take care of enemies on multiple sides. I expect the combat to be slowed and the adventure elements to be simplified just because the player can now barely see around them without turning the cam.

I doubt it will even have platforming. The levels are more realistic and the camera is so zoomed in that it's impossible to create satisfying platforming. Apparently, platforming isn't realistic enough.

They probably went with an over-the-shoulder view because it's more "cinematic" and it allows them to make the environments prettier.

I didn't use most of the combos in the old games, but I would hope the combat is a little more fleshed out than hack left, hack right, hack left, hack right, power jump, repeat, QTE. I did like the shield from the new trailer, though. Oh, also, roll like an idiot, often. The old games had a dodge roll, but if you're gonna go in the cinematic, realistic direction, then replace it with something more practical, like a speedy dash, combined with a slight duck where appropriate.

A hand axe doesn't have enough reach for the long-range combat God of War is known for. You're gonna be running up to enemies a lot and throwing it constantly. I wonder if they're gonna give you alternate melee weapons or if that's not realistic enough anymore. The devs may have just decided, "We've got the close range weapon that can be thrown, we've got the ground pound and we've got the sidekick whose bow the player can aim. Now let's build on those and call it a day." If that is the case, at least provide temporary pickups, like spears and halberts that actually do have reach.

I don't care about Kratos and his son. When I was playing God of War and God of War II, I didn't think to myself, "I wish I had a companion." I liked going out there on my own and brutalizing every creature in sight. Why would I want that kid helping me through my whole adventure? They have a button just for him. The level design will have to be limited to allow him to maneuver. It's pretty obvious they're doing it because of The Last of Us, rather than in the best interest of the series.

This isn't Kratos. They basically started over with another character and gave him Kratos' name and (vaguely similar) appearance. Anger defined Kratos. There was no redemption. He was too far gone and basically a cartoon character. It's like turning Daffy Duck into Vito Corleone. The games were never meant to be so meditative and artistic. This new version is painfully pretentious. (At other times, it's embarrassing. Like that joke character they inserted shortly after the middle of the new E3 trailer.) If they cared about Kratos' history, they wouldn't give the game the same name as the original. I would be more intrigued by a new character with new motivations, quirks and flaws.

It makes no sense to move to a different mythology but keep Kratos. It's like a bad joke. He's killed the gods and made Greece his bitch, so he goes north and finds another pantheon to ruin. Mythologies and religions don't coexist. They have opposing explanations for the nature of the universe. They HAD TO replace Kratos. Mixing mythologies makes them less credible. Same reason why Batman shouldn't exist in Superman's world and why Alien vs. Predator is a mistake. The "DC universe" has always been stupid. It devalues Batman's struggle for justice to know Superman could solve all his problems without breaking a sweat. It also makes the whole world more ridiculous to know that there are so many humanoid superheroes from different planets.

The old games were far from perfect. But there was plenty they could have changed and improved without turning it into another pretentious walk and talk movie game. Too many games forsake their identities instead of improving on their concepts, all to chase after what's popular at the moment. In this case, The Last of Us. God of War is as much a disservice to the God of War series as Tomb Raider was to the Tomb Raider series. And it bothers me that I have to speak in such confusing terms because they didn't wanna come up with new titles, like God of War IV or God of War: A New Beginning.

It seems like games are more and more being made for people who don't even like playing games. Who insist games must aspire to higher artistic standards. Pretenders who should probably be watching movies instead.

God of war needed a shake up. This game looks cool.

They were never going to make another traditional God of War game. At least this take on the material could be interesting. Weren't you tired after 6 games with identical gameplay and story? If you weren't maybe you can see why most people were? Sounds like even the development team was.

A character being portrayed with a single emotion isn't interesting, it's boring. To sum up Kratos as just being an angry dude is what always turned me away from that series, especially one that's working within such grandeur.

It seems like games are more and more being made for people who don't even like playing games. Who insist games must aspire to higher artistic standards. Pretenders who should probably be watching movies instead.

Yeah fuck people who want better narrative structures!

More like it grew up, and GoW needed it. Thank goodness.

Like I said, I would have preferred a new character. It's stupid to pretend this is the same Kratos.

I played the first two. I don't have a PlayStation 3 anymore, so I can't play God of War III. I also dislike portables. I don't want the same game, but I want it to be God of War. Replacing the main character would have been a good start in changing the gameplay.

@ezekiel: Well I'm glad they're doing the wrong things for you because I like the changes they've made. It actually looks interesting rather than just mashing buttons and quick time events that fill the screen.

As much as I personally do not care for the way AAA games focus on trying to tell a cinematic story acing to that of Hollywood movies, down to the badly forced acting, I think it's just a natural evolution. This is what people want from mainstream gaming nowadays. They want their big budget games to be the resemblance of a movie. I don't see it as a "betrayal".

The character and lore of God of War and Kratos isn't so important that you could call alteration to them a "betrayal". Especially not when "Kratos polishes off Greece and then moves onto other pantheons" has been a possible direction since David Jaffe ran the ship.

The combat is undeniably different. If you're really upset about that, then I'm sorry. But the specifics of the camera and light-heavy mashing, to me, isn't what defines a God of War, it's a level of brutality and scope, especially with bosses. There's plenty of opportunity for that. And 3D platforming is the last thing I'm coming to GoW for.

I am here for Dad of War. I'm sorry that that makes me some "pretender" to you? You realize just how obnoxious that sounds, right?

It's significant that this isn't God of War 4, just God of War. They're trying something different, and I'm OK with that. Your arguments don't sway me.

They evolved the series. The old ones will always be there for you to revisit.

Honestly, this is how I felt when they rebooted Tomb Raider. Then I tried it and stopped hating.

This is the pretension I'm talking about. As if God of War needed to become "mature" or ever pretended to be.

Well, on the one hand, anyone who betrays God of War is okay in my book. On the other hand, betraying God of War isn't enough to make me play a God of War, so maybe they're pandering to the wrong audience.

I played that first game a couple of years ago and enjoyed it far more than I thought I would, but I didn't get especially far in 2 after realizing how mechanically similar it was. The idea that there are no less than 6 of those games all following slight variations on "Angry man kills Greek Pantheon with Square Square Triangle and occasionally pushes blocks" seems like a lot of squandered potential and a decent justification to mix stuff up as much as possible.

Yeah, this new one is still a modern, mainstream AAA game and therefore seems to be playing with some of the current popular tropes (i.e. Dadtagonist Kratos) but I think they could make something pretty interesting out of it. At the very least, something significantly more interesting than a more traditional take would've been.

Everyone has their own opinion, just realize it may not be the majority. I enjoyed God of war 1-3 but by 3 i was pretty much done with it, so changing the game up completely is pretty much the only way they could have got me back interested. (shit they even made a game after 3 that i didn't even bother playing lol). I know change is rough but i never really get why people complain so much when stuff is different, why not wait till the game is out and you play it to complain about how it plays? It may be better than the earlier games may be worse, the whole hyperbole of "betraying the series" just seems kinda over the top. It's a 10 or 12 year old franchise that nobody was really looking forward to anymore, i say just give it a chance if you don't like it you don't like it. And if you have a ps4 i think they did a remaster of 3 for it? You could try that out if you really want that old gameplay style etc. Also if you didn't get a ps3 for god of war were you really craving more god of war?

And it's also way to early to comment on the story, kratos always had a few moments of serious mourning of his family etc before hulking out, you never know that kid could die in the first 10 minutes and then you hulk out for 4 hours with his ghost as a companion lol. who knows

God of War Will Be Less Hack-n-Slash And More Narrative Focused

“It’s a franchise that has historically acutely underperformed in Europe,” Ryan said. “Hack and slash games tend to not do so well in Europe, so the narrative this time around will make a big difference. European gamers love narrative games.”

If God of War 4 is a betrayal then don't tell Nintendo fans about Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey they'll go nuts.

Loved the original God of War games (even the handheld ones, didn't play that last PS3 one). This looks really cool and I'm pretty excited for it.

Also Christopher Judge is Kratos now and I'm 100% down for ready to hear Teal'c talk at me for a whole game.

I don't mind the camera perspective change but jesus fuck did they make Kratos boring.

There really aren't many games in the character action genre these days. What was the last one, Bayonetta 2, the Wii U exclusive? I'm not the biggest God of War fan, but I think it's sad that they went from being one of the few major developers in a genre I like to this generic, but modern thing instead. It's so in to play grizzled dads, I'm just surprised they didn't go for a daughter figure.

God of War devs made a good turn on the new sequel. The question is will it be a co-op cuz you have a kid in your side during your adventure. Plus, I think the story fits. " Men make kingdoms where they become king and ruler but all kings make one family in the side of a queen" - some game quotes.

Many questions in my mind when I saw the trailer like, what happened to his quest of revenge? and who is the "lucky woman" whom Kratos live with? I know that behind the previous hack and slash, destruction and mayhem he went with, he's still a human at heart.

I've gotten tired of the God of War formula by the second one and so I'm glad they're "betraying" the franchise to try something new and exciting. If that makes me some kinda poser then F' it, I'm a poser.

Nier: Automata, Furi, Transformers: Devastation, Icey, Metal Gear Rising, Seraph, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutants in Manhattan

I'm conflicted on the whole thing. I like the direction they are taking things way more than the old games, and that's as someone way more interested in Greek myth than Norse myth. There's a way to do big violent spectacle without it being so aggressively juvenile, and I think taking the David Jaffe tone out of the series will do it some good.

But I kind of agree with your concern about it still being Kratos. They're going to have to work really hard to make him an even remotely compelling character, and they might have been better off fully rebooting the series and forgetting Kratos altogether.

You were the guy who got his knickers in a twist about Resident Evil 7 being in first person weren't you? What is your beef with camera perspectives?

Newflash: getting older means shit changes for reasons aren't always apparent to you, or just for the sake of it. Getting angry about it is a good way to end up like those old fart at family gatherings who gets mad when you mentioned the internet.

I can see both points of view - people wanting Kratos as one angry badass mother fucker, and people wanting Kratos to evolve and show emotions.

Personally, I welcome the change. I never really got into Kratos' plight in the previous games, so I'm hoping this one hooks me like the others didn't... and I like Dark Souls, so if the combat mirrors that, even slightly, that's a positive to me.

I kinda wish they'd not waste a well-written, mature father & son storyline on a character as devoid of depth as Kratos M. Angerman.

They should've just done what other hack & slash devs did and copied Dark Souls. That well hasnt run dry just yet. (i'm not even sure if i'm being sarcastic...)

I do miss games like GoW or the PS2 era PoP games (which felt more in line with what GoW is/was than DMC) but I feel those games are a hard sell these days.

I agree that this probably shouldnt be called God of War since it doesnt seem to play like those other games and Kratos doesnt seem like Kratos.

Way I see it, taking Kratos down this path sets them up for a real good scene or sequence, either in this game for a future one if they are intent on a new series, where Kratos unleashes the rage. Which will have a lot more impact and catharsis than if we have been dulled by the constant rage boner that was OG Kratos.

I can see where you're coming from in that making Kratos more mature NOW seems preposterous and could have just had a new character with less baggage. But it's such a swerve I'm actually interesting how they pull it off, cause I connected with the first trailer quite a bit. And as much as he become a cartoon character, I'd be wrong to say the series never tried to be a little more emotionally mature (mostly in GoW 1 and Ghost of Sparta). I welcome a Kratos that has more emotions than anger and has more control over it.

And do get the concern of more Sony studios adopting that third-person, behind the back camera perspective, narrative-focused Naughty Dog style game, but the old formula was thoroughly exhausted. If anything I think the new footage looks more like the previous games than it seemed at the reveal.

I've never heard of Seraph or Icy, so I'm guessing they're minor, 2d indie titles that hang out on Steam? That's not really the same as the God Hands, Devil May Crys, Bayonettas and God of Wars of the world. Strider is not a character action game. Rising, Nier Automata, TMNT and Transformers are all by Platinum. Nier is an action RPG with shallow combat. Transformers and TMNT(and Korra for that matter) are budget titles, reaching the dizzying heights of basically okay and bad(and bad). Platinum just doesn't do very good work with their licensed titles. Except Metal Gear Rising, which is good! It's also a simpler, shorter Bayonetta, and four years old. Furi is this tiny indie title with only boss fights and a big old bullet hell/twinstick focus. Character action is not a thriving genre by a long shot, and Platinum's budget titles aren't really doing it for me. I'm not sitting here saying God of War 10: Another One would have helped, but I wanted them to improve, not just change genre to something currently trendy.

There was what, six or seven traditional god of war games counting the fantastic portable ones? That series was either dead or going to be revamped but there was no continuing to make the same old game with an angry screamy over the top kratos ripping god's heads off and turning them into lanterns. It was played out.

Very good point.

I'm excited to see where they go with this game, where if it were just another angry GOW game I'd be less interested.

This has at least made me intrigued and curious.

Somewhat ironic.

https://www.giantbomb.com/souls/3025-2169/forums/my-attempt-to-conceptually-improve-the-souls-games-1809361/

That was a bit misguided. I inserted my own ideas for a game into the Souls series.

https://web.opendrive.com/api/v1/download/file.json/NjhfMjE0MjczOTFf?inline=1

Still, I hope Miyazaki was serious when he said they're done making Souls games. I want something new from them.

I mean, things change, get over it?

Lots of people wanted Zelda to continue being an Ocarina-of-Time-style "explore a shallow overworld, and the meat of the game is solving puzzle in 4-8 dungeons themed around something, then you fight Ganon", but Breath of the Wild was structurally quite removed from that format because after a while they were kinda just repeating themselves with that formula.

While they obviously upped the spectacle over time, God of War also got pretty dang formulaic in the writing, tone, and gameplay over time, so I welcome this change.

@ezekiel:

I get what you're saying (though maybe not in so dramatic terms) but remember that Cory Barlog, previously the lead on the best God of War game, God of War II, is in charge of development on this one too. So give it a shot, it might surprise you.

@ezekiel: You've only played the first 2 God of War games on PS2, so you really can't make a thorough assessment of the series until you've played the 2 PSP games and the 2 PS3 games. Then experience the story and mechanic fatigue that the majority of us felt with the series.

The reason for the severe tonal and gameplay shifts wasn't because of The Last of Us, it was from the criticisms that the God of War games were more of same. Ever since God of War 2, and reaching critical consensus by God of War 3, all the major complaints stemmed from the God of War formula not changing enough.

The new axe that Kratos uses is a direct reaction from the critiques that the 2 new weapons in God of War 3 basically felt the same as the dual chain flails. That YouTube rant video on the God of War reboot comparing God of War's combat with the combat of Silent Hill: Downpour, based merely on the facts that they're behind-the-shoulder cameras and lets you throw the axe? That's like saying Doom 2016's combat is similar to Zeno Clash's combat, because they're both first person and use melee. It doesn't hold up. Also that video is comparing roughly 20 minutes of footage from the new God of War against footage from 7 different God of War games from the past. It's not a valid comparison until we see the full, new God of War game in its entirety to see everything that it has to offer. It might still have similar combat to the old games, but showing all the new stuff in trailers makes for a stronger impression, and less knee-jerk reactions about it being more of the same.

Basically, just because a game is doing something that isn't akin to your tastes, doesn't mean it's doing something fundamentally wrong. People's initial reaction to Doom 2016's melee kills were very negative. Until everyone actually got to play the game and see that it actually made Doom relevant in 2016. Again, we've only seen several minutes of gameplay compared to 7 games of past God of Wars. It's not something you can rightly compare until you've seen what all of the new reboot has to offer.

They could have just as easely made this into a new franchise. But brand recognision takes some of the risk out of it I guess.

@ezekiel: Look conceptually I actually sympathize with you.

For me this was the Fallout franchise. So I know exactly where you're coming from. (and some GB duders who are still around from those days might even remember my rant or two, who knows)

BUT at the end of the day we can't really say is something will capture or maintain the spirit of the original games until we see it in action proper. The only 2 ways I will always try to criticize Fallout 3 or 4 is A) on their own merits as games; B) separate the feel/tone form the OG games into it's own individual thing. (PS the new Fallouts are bad games)

On the other hand even tho something like the 2012 Xcom was actually very different from the OG Xcoms one can argue that it still managed to capture the important bits from them and despite the drastic changes maintained the spirit. And even regardless of that it was just a plain good game just as a standalone thing.

Then there is something like say Syndicate when the new game completely changed genres and became an FPS. And boy dude I hated that concept, it hurt my soul. But I'll be damned if I wasn't proven wrong to myself, by myself. Despite being a completely different thing, that thing captured the actual feel, the theme and the spirit of the original Syndicate game. It was a better tonal successor to Syndicate then Bethesda Fallouts ever were despite their closeness in genre to the first games. (even tho objectively I actually don't think that Syndicate FPS was a good value for money)

And saying stuff like people who want a different take on the franchise aren't proper gamers or something is not something that will endear your argument to anyone, it only significantly highlights a severe emotional bias and undermines your entire post and other points however reasonable they might be or not. You would only help yourself and your own argument by keeping a cooler head and not spouting cringey stuff like that.

Finally keep in mind. By the end of even GoW3 (and especially Ascension) pretty much the entirety of the internet and many fans of the franchise were saying they were bored of the repetitive formula and if GoW ever wanted to make a come back they really needed to shake things up. So in the simplest way this is exactly them following through on what a lot of people were wishing for.

@rikiguitarist: My point of criticism isn't even exclusively that it's different. It looks dull and pretty limited mechanically, which is what I was trying to get across with my complaints about the camera. And it most certainly does have to do with The Last of Us.

It's a spineless half-measure whose indecisiveness hurts the whole package. The gutsy thing to do would have been to replace the Greek mythology AND Kratos, giving the player new weapons and controls, but staying true to the concepts of the series.

Halo 4 and Gears 4 is what you get when you return to a series that "finished" but with no innovation. You get a been there done that experience.

With the new God of War, both the gameplay and character of Kratos has changed. It's new and fresh. This is the only way to do it.

If they had just made another God of War game that was exactly like the original trilogy, which ended by the way, it would suffer from Gears 4 and Halo 4 syndrome. It would feel old. It would feel like we've already done this.

New and fresh is good. Games change, times change. If you want to play the same old stuff, You have six games worth of it. Perfectly good games, but in the past.

If you don't like what's on your plate, don't eat it.

It's funny, I thought the Tomb Raider reboot was exactly what that series needed. I never liked the old Tomb Raiders, but I really enjoyed both of the new ones. I have the same thoughts about this game. I liked God of War, but the sequels never grabbed me. Kratos was such a one-note character. He's basically The Hulk without the justification for why he's a raging idiot. I'm hoping this game does a better job of making him a character I can care about. Even if they fail, I'd still rather they try something different than make yet another God of War game with the same mechanics.

@ezekiel: Doing the same basic stuff as before would be the most spineless thing they could possibly do.

This a very good point. Look at all these giant franchises dying a slow painful death at the hand of developers who don't want to/are not allowed to innovate. Literally no one bought gears 4. Halo is on the decline. No one cares about Crackdown. I would suspect God of War would suffer a similar faith if they just made a traditional God of War game. Like Gears, it was already on the decline near the end of the last generation.

If by "same basic stuff," you mean keeping "the spectacle, the fast-paced beat 'em up action, the grand environments, the exploration (including platforming), the over the top brutality, the epic score, the puzzles..." Well, those are vague enough concepts to allow plenty of creativity, especially with a completely new story, pantheon and protagonist. This new game pushed a lot of that aside for something more appropriate in another series.

I'm viewing this in the same light of the X-Men and Wolverine movies and "Logan". Wolverine's always been a loner, rash, angry man upset at the world, but Logan changed him up. Made him semi-mortal, shackled him with a feeble old man, and gave life to a character that was generally one-dimensional. It was a a new and interesting direction for Wolverine and it worked. And when he had to get savage, he fucking got brutal.

I wouldn't get so upset over people changing up a series fans were obviously tired of. I can't speak for your circumstances, but I also stopped playing the games after the second one. When it came to deciding whether I'd buy the 3rd one, it just seemed like more of the same thing. Also the platforming was garbage in those games (Hades in the first game was especially terrible, specifically the spinning blade columns you had to climb). The whole "crossing pantheons" thing doesn't bother me in the slightest, either, and is actually interesting (one of the main things I like about American Gods).

I like new things and new directions. I'm obviously not alone. You look at the Zelda series and their best games were ones that changed things up the most. You look at the Far Cry and Assassin's Creed games and you'll see it described with boredom ("Yup, looks like another one of those games").

People appreciate new directions and risks. It's also a great way to get new blood into a series. A fan of a new game might jump into the old games to see where how they were. Did James Bond get this much flak when Casino Royale came out and everything felt more grounded than the Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnan movies? A similar outcry is happening over Monster Hunter World possibly changing everything on the basis of rumors, a different artstyle, and 2 minute trailers. Things are allowed to change what doesn't work if it brings in more players and a better experience.

@ezekiel: You don't know how appropriate it is yet. Just wait at least.

You don't like this new take on the gameplay, camera perspective, kratos' character, etc? That's fine. Not for you, that's cool. But this is a series with six games that are all the same and now it wants to do something very different.

Resident Evil drastically changed at 4, and then again at 7.

Final Fantasy drastically changed....god knows how many times.

Persona got almost completely revamped at Persona 3.

This is what happens. You change things up, keep things fresh. You may not be happy with those changes but it's a bad idea to keeeeep doing the same thing over and over again, ESPECIALLY when it's a series you're reviving from the dead. Whether or not a new God of War game even NEEDS to happen is of course a different discussion.