Don't Analyze: Actions Against Orcs Make You Feel Uncomfortable?

@ares42: how do you suppose Talion made him act like that? What do you suppose he is tampering with in the Orcs? And to that end, does the "how," even matter?

As a paramedic, I've met a ton of people with traumatic brain onjuries, and I could compare their behaviors to plenty of non-injured people. The behaviors are the effect. The reason is the cause.

@flashflood_29: I dunno, magic ? Does he disintegrate parts of their brain ? Does he infect them with a virus ? Or maybe poison them with a hallucinogen ? Or maybe he just conjures tiny little imps that takes control over the brain ? Going down that path is completely pointless unless you want to start trying to explain everything in this fictional fantasy world. The only thing we do know is that he's using a power referred to as "Shame", and Bruz is acting like a child that's been thoroughly shamed.

Yes, Talion should just humanely kill them by flying far overhead on a drake raining down huge fireballs that evaporate them.

On a more serious note, the notion of getting upset over some pure evil fantasy orcs getting humiliated and slaughtered is absurd to me. It's an entire race with only genocide in mind, and there is no space for nuance here. It's not like they would ever agree to any rules of war. At the very least, when you fight something like that, you have to have ways to put fear in its heart.

@gunflame88: But how can you assume they will know fear when you leave no room for nuance?

Lobotomy was looked at as a legitimate treatment in the past for the same reason you're presenting. The outward end result is just that they act differently.

@gunflame88: That's why I like to keep reiterating that the original intent of this thread is for feelings of discomfort based on surface level actions; not analyzing whether it's just or not, or if it makes sense, or any of that. I could justify a lot of things that make feel discomfort and at the same time, there may be some unjust things that I don't bat an eyelash at (but should).

@flashflood_29: Right, but where in the game does it indicate that that is actually what's going on ? There's no mention of it anywhere, but there's plenty of clues pointing in other directions. Again, it just seems to me like people are over-thinking it and jumping to a standard TV trope.

@ares42: I'm sort of counter-intuitively trying to explain my point that regardless of what you're doing to him, you're breaking his psyche. He no longer thinks properly. If an adult were lobotomized, TBI, psychologically abused, psychological damage from physical abuse, anything to the point where they were only capable of thinking and acting on a child's level, it's still an adult only capable of thinking/acting on a child's level. (Which isn't to say that all those causes are on equal terms, by any means.)

If you don't see it that way, then that's the point of the thread, to get everyone's point of view!

Weird thing is, everything in the book kinda leads to whatever that is being done to orc oke, but in the game they try to give them personality and make it seem there is a culture there, which makes it feel weird.
It is the weird fanfic nature and twisting of the lore that make things feel off.

@cheappoison: Its not twisting the lore to show a story little more from the orcside.

@ares42: @flashflood_29: Since you guys are debating this not at all debatable thing:

@rethla: In tolkien Orc are pretty much irredeemable, not the orcs you see here. These are Terry Pratchett/warhammer orcs.
There is even a commentary about questioning Tolkien about having a sentient race that is without salvation.

Yes, if only due to the Nemesis System assigning unique personalities to the Orcs you encounter and the awful story missions making the non-Orc characters so boring and one-note that the Uruks seem human by comparison.

I remember seeing a Twitter discussion on the subject of an Orc protagonist for War-dor who turns on Sauron to free his brethren from the "shackles of war captivity." While the idea is about as lore-friendly as "sexy Shelob" or "we made a better Ring," it would definitely be more interesting than playing as Talion's bland, dumb, undead ass.

I think this is pretty much the disagreement we're having. You see an adult person being diminished down to acting like a child. I see an underling creature being punished by its master and acting accordingly, like a dog-owner punishing their dog when they've done something bad.