A step in the wrong direction for Nintendo?

Listening to Jeff's thoughts on the Nintendo Switch has got me thinking about whether Nintendo's strategy for their hybrid console was a step in the wrong direction.

Since the details from the press conference were announced, it was clearly evident that the Switch was still clinging onto the identity of the Wii U which other news outlets have also pointed out. In my opinion I think this was a huge mistake from Nintendo's part, especially if they are trying to unify their systems.

Why didn't Nintendo design their hybrid console more in the direction or portability as opposed to the home environment?

Nintendo could have created the successor to the 3DS that would have: -

• Remove the dual screen to conserve battery life
• Provide graphical capabilities similar to the Wii U for the home and reduce resources for portability similar to the Switch implementation
• Provide a docking bay that the portable would connect to for televisions
• Instead of using controls on the portable which would be docked anyway, a Pro Controller would be provided within the package

Now I know some R&D would be needed to determine how much this would cost (lol), but I would have more likely to pay $299 / £279 for:

• Nintendo Switch portable console
• Docking Bay
• Pro Controller

This would have removed the need to buy additional peripherals, except an extra Pro Controller for multiplayer. The focus on the portable side of Nintendo maybe would have allowed for backward compatibility with the 3DS, (without the 3D function).

You guys are such downers. I guess I'm the only one here that sees potential in the Switch and is excited for it. There isn't really anything they are doing that makes me think it's a 'huge' mistake. There are some things I wish were slightly different, but I don't see it as this catastrophic train wreck that it has been made out to be on these boards. I have no reason to believe this is the Nintendo console and portable in one. It's merely meant to merge them. I think you will see a 3DS successor in a year or two that is basically a Switch except designed specifically for gaming on the go. The Switch is not designed for gaming on the go, it's designed to be portable.

But hey, opinions. I guess we will have to wait and see how it goes. But if anyone thinks this will be as bad as the Wii U you're crazy.

I'm incredibly excited about this console. Bringing it to work and playing a Mario or Zelda game for a couple hours a day in my office is going to be great. I haven't bought a Nintendo system since the Gamecube so have missed out on those types of games for 10+ years and am excited to get back into them. If this was just another portable device I would have skipped it, but the vision I have of bringing it to work and hooking it up to my office TV and playing home console type games while at work is so exciting.

@zevvion I am personally trying to be realistic, the messaging for the Switch is just as confusing as it was for the Wii U. For Nintendo, this has to appeal to the broader audiences not just the core fans.

I have no reason to believe this is the Nintendo console and portable in one. It's merely meant to merge them.

I think you will see a 3DS successor in a year or two that is basically a Switch except designed specifically for gaming on the go. The Switch is not designed for gaming on the go, it's designed to be portable.

Also I think some of your statements are above contradictory, being portable is essentially 'gaming on the go'. Also why would Nintendo create two different systems that essentially do the same thing?

I'm really excited for the Switch and think it has a lot of potential. Having said that, I completely understand why people are skeptical and want to wait, especially if you already have a Wii U.

I have no problem with the price of the console and to be honest I don't quite understand why people are so up in arms about it. Maybe there is something I'm not seeing but it's strange to me when I see people say things like "I can't believe it's not £250." it's only £30 more and some people are acting like it's way more than that.

I will not defend their pricing of accessories though. I also understand that at launch it's a bad value proposition if you compare it to the PS4 or Xbox One.

I wish there were more games at launch but Zelda looks so good that I don't care that much. I'm the guy that bought a Wii U at launch and never regretted it. I'm confident that the Switch will have enough incredible games to justify the price to me.

@zombie2011 said:

Did any of you two read the OP? We didn't need your past history of Nintendo purchases. The OP was about whether Nintendo should have focused more on designing the console from the portable/3DS perspective, instead of clinging onto the Wii / Wii U identity.

I don't think we can tell one way or the other whether the Switch is the right direction or not. Because the most important thing for a console is games. Games people would buy a console for. And right now, the console is not even out, let alone the games.

You can't separate people's feeling towards the Switch from their previous experience with Nintendo consoles, especially as this was meant to represent a merging of the home and handheld branches. So I think they are perfectly fine to bring up their past Nintendo purchases.

I think if they had shown both 3DS style Software (like a puzzle or strategy game) aslongside the WiiU style software like Mario and Zelda then that would have clearly indicated that it was taking the best of both worlds.

You talk about wanting Nintendo to make a console to:

• Remove the dual screen to conserve battery life
• Provide graphical capabilities similar to the Wii U for the home and reduce resources for portability similar to the Switch implementation
• Provide a docking bay that the portable would connect to for televisions
• Instead of using controls on the portable which would be docked anyway, a Pro Controller would be provided within the package

This seems to just describe the Switch. Aside from the last point, but why raise the cost by adding a Pro Controller when they could design the controller portions to be usable for both home and portable modes.

Again, I think they could have given the Switch more of a handheld focus by simply showing some new entries for traditional handheld games.

The entire online component is a paid service with voice, friends list, and settings on a paid separately mobile app.

To be fair your post is quite a bit of nonsense. You want a more portable system but your bullet-points are just describing the Switch as is. Your last bullet doesn't make any sense?

Nintendo could have created the successor to the 3DS that would have: -

• Instead of using controls on the portable which would be docked anyway, a Pro Controller would be provided within the package

From what I can understand from your post your idea is to have a Switch but have it only as powerful as The Wii U and add a Pro controller to the package?

@zevvion: I would say relegating party chat to a phone app and having ridiculously overpriced accessories are huge mistakes. Ultimately I feel like they need to explain so much more. I want to see the UI and I want to see how they handle the Virtual Console. Overall I thought their presentation was bad, but if they just get the messaging right from here on out, then it could be great. There are too many question marks for me right now.

Battery life is no different between 3DS and Switch, why is it a problem now? The Switch is launching very hot just before the end of Nintendo's fiscal year, the 3DS is their only money maker to kill it early and go all on Switch as Jeff said would be financial suicide. The smart play would be to sell Switch as a home console then as the Switch's price comes down phase out the 3DS as its sales slow and start promoting Switch as a portable.

You can't sell the Switch as a portable while the 3DS is Nintendo's only bread maker.

It's too early to tell. I feel this is way premature.

@frostyryan: wait you have to pay for the app or you get it for free if you are subbed to their online service?

This. The only thing that is seriously preventing me to get a Switch day one is that it seems games will cost 60£ in the UK, which is really expensive considering that PS4 and Xbox One games are 40£.

Accessories are expensive too, but their price is easier to swallow for me since they will be (hopefully) a one-time purchase.

@darkvare: You have to pay for the service and you also have to pay for the phone app.

Without the app, you have no friends list, settings, or voice chat through the service.

I think the point they were trying to make is that 3DS is a system that is built solely for the 'gaming-on-the-go' idea of playing a game that is meant to be taken with you anywhere. The infrastructure of a purely portable system influences how developers will make games for it and it becomes a whole different area.

The Switch is only a portable version of a main home console. From what we've seen so far it can be assumed that the games are going to be made with the idea of it still having the home console DNA. Yes you can take it anywhere and play your games on it like a 3DS but it is still playable as a home console with it's dock and is not meant to fill the same space as the 3DS does.

@laethe: Yeah it is crazy. Amazon lowered Zelda to £50 which is still too much money but that's the price I have come to expect to pay when a new console launches, then the games come down over time. It was definitely like that with 360/PS3 and PS4/X1.

I have the console ordered, a standard edition Zelda and a case with a screen protector. I'm not buying anything else for it at launch. Using the joycons on their side for multiplayer games looks uncomfortable BUT at least I don't have to buy anymore controllers because at £74.99 I will never buy more.

Expecting Nintendo to do what is best for themselves is like expecting a deaf person to enjoy a audiobook. Nintendo has been in slow decline since the SNES, and it's not anyone's fault but their own. Obviously the handheld market is something else, and at this point I'm wondering if they just lucked into that, because wow do they suck on the home market.

And this is one of the main reasons the Switch is a bad idea. They're basically saying "hey, now you can go portable with your console. But you know, we have this other thing down the line, and it'll be muuuuuch better to play portable with".

I think we all expected the merger of Nintendo consoles, but considering just how poor the portable part of the SwiitchU is, I can see them not making a new dedicated handheld as well.

What a missed opportunity.

@bojackhorseman said:

Not sure there's much basis for this given that the Wii sold twice as many units as the SNES. Also, each Nintendo handheld family has sold at least 60 million units. The DS is close behind the PS2 for the best selling console of all time. Not sure that kind of success is just luck.

@paulmako: Selling a lot is not the same as quality. The Wii was terrible top to bottom. The fact that they seem to be chasing that money and zeitgeist with the Switch is not a good sign for me.

I'm excited for year 2 of Switch. Year one looks to be horrible and mirrors the Wii U. I'm hoping they turn it around and by year 2 it's a console worth owning.

I don't fully expect that though, this is Nintendo we are talking about. They deserve no benefit of the doubt based on their previous 10 years in the gaming market.

@paulmako: But the Wii/DS success was a fluke, not a trend, though as evident by WiiU/3DS sales which are in line with Nintendo's historical downward trajectory. Nintendo 3DS has so far sold 20 mil less than Gameboy Advance which in turn sold less than Gameboy. The WiiU sold less than Gamecube, which sold less than Nintendo 64 and so on and so forth. Since NES, the only two Nintendo consoles that break that trend is Wii and DS. So unless Switch hits it big, the trend continues.

It may not be the same as quality but I think it offers some evidence against the very broad statement that 'Nintendo have been in a slow decline since the SNES.' Same with the handheld sales. How about Pokemon Sun and Moon being Nintendo's fastest ever selling games in the Americas. You didn't say how you were defining 'slow decline' and I think a statement like that requires further explanation.

Unless you just mean that their recent home consoles haven't had enough compelling games to justify their cost.

Okay, I'll try to make it more clear.

NES - Very Good

SNES - Very Good

Nintendo 64 - Okay

Gamecube - Mediocre

Wii - Bad

WiiU - Bad

Switch - ???

So, Nintendo has been on a slow decline since the SNES. As for handhelds, @pezen posted a comment right above you about that.

That doesn't make it more clear, all you did was give one or two words to describe the entire legacy of their consoles.

You argued the Wii sucked and sales were no indication of quality... but people buy what they like. The Wii sold like hot cakes. Clearly it was a great machine to many. Not quite the "hardcore" crowd no, but when it comes to a business, selling well is success.

I do agree the Switch situation is horrible though and they're not doing much to ensure high sales. They're out of their minds if they think the controller prices and online phone app are ok.

I'm excited for the Switch. I've been unable to commit to buying a 3DS or WiiU because each only had half of the Nintendo games I wanted. I finally can get it all, so I'm thrilled. As a guy who still plays steam versions of 80's and 90's games quite happily, power isn't such an issue for me compared to game design, and I've always admired Nintendo's style.

I'm quite curious what you mean by this. By now, the Wii U has a very good library and the 3DS has an insane amount of fantastic games. The Switch doesn't have much. It's launching with Zelda and a fast food gimmicky game. I don't see how someone can be so hopeful about it this early with barley anything announced.

not alone. a semi-lackluster first showing isn't going to faze me. i think the thing's still pretty damn awesome and as far as i can tell does pretty much everything i expected. i'm only bent up over the online service as offered, but that's something that can be tweaked down the line (and hopefully nintendo is more open now to iterating their services/products in that way). i thought jeff's feelings were mostly insightful if a bit unfair, but i have a bad feeling it's contributing to the negative groupthink surrounding the console.

it's not even out yet! give it time to prove itself. look at how the 3ds started, compared to where it is now.

@frostyryan: It was to illustrate that I think Nintendo consoles are getting worse and worse. I could write an essay on it, but I'd rather not. Sales are certainly not an indicator of quality. There are reasons the Wii sold like it did, but to claim that one of the reasons were that it was a good console is a tough argument to make.

What made it a good console? The poor UI, horrible networking services, dated hardware, not being able to play a simple DVD? It sold because it was cheap, had an exciting gimmick and came with Wii Sports.

Be more patronizing. Cause it's not like people can form their own, individual opinions if it doesn't align with yours.

Put me in the excited category. The internet hot takes are getting extremely tiresome. Haven't been disappointed with a Nintendo console yet and I don't expect this one to be any different.

I wanted a powerful handheld what I could play some incredible Ace Attorney/Rhythm Heaven/Monster Hunter/Pokemon games on. Instead what I'm getting is a portable console that doesn't bring enough horsepower to the table to differentiate itself from my WiiU, and the games that could benefit from the extra power will continue to be on the 3DS only.

I'll pass.

I would have been significantly more excited for the Switch if it was essentially what you're saying. A portable system with built in controls; akin to a slightly larger Vita, with a docking port that allowed it to be played on a TV.

All this Joycon removable Motion control nonsense really makes me hate the direction Nintendo chose to go.

Not patronizing at all. i never claimed anyone/everyone isn't able to form their own opinion, but at the same time you do know how many people round these parts put really strong faith into what Jeff says? He's definitely an influence around here. and i wasn't insinuating it was the source of the dislike/hate, only potentially stoking the flames. people already tend to be nintendo biased anyway, wanting them to essentially "give up" and go third party, and using extreme superlatives to describe their supposed bad choices. it feels like a lot of people here are already made up on the fate of the switch. nobody even wants to give it a chance. i mean i can already tell from your comments you pretty much have your mind made up. i can understand the misgivings, but it's so relentlessly negative. just take a step back and weigh the pros and cons a bit.

jeff had some good and clear things to say in regards to the switch that weren't biased, but a good chunk of it too was forced confusion about the device and what sounded like blind denial of its portable capabilities (the fucking 3ds has the same battery life, or close enough that it doesn't matter). i already have seen quite a few commenters echoing his sentiments. he's got an influence here, no doubt about it.

and maybe not going with the whole joycon business would have saved like $50 off the price of the unit at best. otherwise it's not causing any sort of sacrifice in the machine's capabilities, you can patently ignore it if you want. if you wanted something on part with ps4/xbox you would be waiting a year or more at least and probably spending at least 1.5 times the current cost.

@ripelivejam: The 3DS is listed at 5-9 hours of battery life and the XL is listed at 6-10. The Switch is listed at 2-3, right?

I've been staying away from Switch conversations online because people are getting Very Mad all over the Internet about it, but I genuinely don't see what everyone is so disappointed about.

Portability:

It's kind of large, but that's the only real knock I can see against it. If you throw it in a bag you'll be totally fine, and the battery life is very similar to 3DS. The best battery life you can get out of a 3DS family system is a New 3DS XL - 3.5 - 7 hours. The Switch is 3 - 6 hours. So when I see people saying the battery life is bad... I don't really understand that argument.

Games:

This system is launching with a new Zelda, which puts it in a pretty great position amongst Nintendo fans. The fact that it's one of the most hotly anticipated new Zelda games only adds to this advantage. The biggest problem here is that the Wii U is also getting this game. However, the Wii U sold very few units, and probably sold largely to people who will buy a Switch regardless of the launch line-up. There are still plenty of people that will buy a Switch for Zelda.

On top of this, I don't really think the games for this first year are as sparse as people say. I think 1 2 Switch and Super Bomberman R are not compelling titles, but someone will buy those games. There's also Just Dance and Skylanders which sell pretty well on Nintendo platforms, as well as Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+ and Constructor HD which were just confirmed as launch titles today. More may be on the way, but if not, the year is still looking decent. Snipperclips and Has Been Heroes look great and are launching in March, and there was a potential leak of April 15th for ARMS. Splatoon 2, updated Mario Kart 8, and Super Mario Odyssey are all this year as well. Their exclusive lineup for this year is already pretty full for 9 months in my opinion, and they've said there will be more games announced before launch and at E3.

I don't really know what else there is to say. My biggest complaint about the Switch, aside from accessory pricing obviously, is that they'll be continuing 3DS development alongside it. I'd rather see every new 3DS game get Switch version parity so that they can begin to sunset the 3DS and push the Switch even harder. I still don't buy the party-line that the 3DS is nowhere near done when you can barely find them anymore, but I guess that remains to be seen.

The online service stuff seems very weird and I'm completely not ready to give them a pass on charging for what amounts to an app, but the actual functionality I feel okay about. I really don't think I'd mind having chat/messaging on an app since I already use Discord instead of psn/xbox messages, and I'm also pretty okay with the idea of organizing parties on my phone.

I'm pretty excited overall. I totally understand that not everyone will be interested in this system, but I do think it's a huge improvement over the Wii U's offering. Simply launching with Breath of the Wild already puts the Switch head and shoulders above the Wii U. Looking back over the Wii U's release, that first year is really more bleak than I think anyone remembers. The first really great, no qualifications, Wii U exclusive game (imo) was Super Mario 3D World out in November 2013, a full year after release. The Switch looks like it'll have quite a few games up for that title within the first nine months.

The same reason you might own a laptop and a phone. A laptop is portable, but you don't necessarily want to use it in a bus. You can, but it's not the best use case for it. You just take it places to use wherever you are going. That's how I see the Switch. It's portable, I'm taking it places, but I'm not using it on the go really.

I think Nintendo could and would create a on-the-go version of the Switch so you can choose which option fits best for you. But all of them would still run the same games so you won't be forced to choose either/or and they won't split their library of games across two systems again. It's one ecosystem. I'm not saying they are going to do that guaranteed, but I would not be surprised.

Well, when you categorize opinions as groupthink you are being patronizing. Of course people listen to what Jeff has to say. For most people (I assume) he is the reason we gravitated towards this site. He's been in the game a long time and brings a lot of valid points to the table in most discussions. That doesn't mean I take all his opinions for myself. For instance his super hard stand on games like RDR is silly in my mind. But yeah, he's raised a lot of good concerns about the Switch. And maybe it's just my old school ways, but three hours of playtime is not a portable device in my mind.

I think Nintendo has made a huge mistake with the Switch. They should either have went full out on the hybrid between home console and handheld that they are doing half heartedly at best right now, or they should have dropped this nonsense and made a system that can compete with the other two consoles in terms of shear horsepower, and released a new dedicated handheld as well. At this point they just fall between two chairs, and aren't committed to either of those. I think the Switch stinks, and if there's any logic left in this world, it won't do well. But fuck it, this upcoming Friday probably proves that there isn't any left anyway, so for all I know the Switch might be a huge success.

As far as I know the 3DS has better battery life than that. Anyway, if that is the case, it's like not the bad battery life of 3DS makes it okay for Switch to have bad battery life. If anything, seeing as it's coming years after the latest 3DS iteration, one would expect it to be better. No negatives do not make a positive in this case.

Call me crazy, and to be fair I don't tend to take portable systems out of the house that regularly, but 3 hours of battery life is PLENTY enough for me. 3 hours of playing a game before it needs to be charged? Yeah, after 3 hours I'm pretty sure I can find something else to occupy my time.

I don't think anything Jeff said was unwarranted, nor do I believe that you are merely echoing his sentiments, but if you've been on this site for a while you know as well as me that people here tend to latch on to whatever opinion the staff has, especially someone like Jeff. It can even manifest in people thinking a game was bad or disappointing - in the general sense not the personal - on this site just because someone from the staff thought so, whereas everywhere else the community thinks it was great. Their opinions get echoed a lot around here.

Jeff is completely right that RDR is a terrible videogame by the way.

@bojackhorseman: I'm referencing the official Nintendo reported battery lives. My point being if you're happy with your 3DS battery life (and I don't know any who aren't) you'll likely be happy with the 3DS' battery life.

@zevvion

The same reason you might own a laptop and a phone. A laptop is portable, but you don't necessarily want to use it in a bus. You can, but it's not the best use case for it. You just take it places to use wherever you are going. That's how I see the Switch. It's portable, I'm taking it places, but I'm not using it on the go really.

The use cases for the Switch and a laptop are totally different, one a primarily a games console where the other is a multi-purpose device. The point I'm trying to make is that they should have make the device totally portable and on-the-go, but with the same Switch capabilities.

This would have been ideal for both western gamers who primarily play at home, and for Japanese gamers who primarily play portably and on-the-go. This would have been an area even which Sony and Microsoft cannot compete.

@ripelivejam

Not patronizing at all. i never claimed anyone/everyone isn't able to form their own opinion, but at the same time you do know how many people round these parts put really strong faith into what Jeff says? He's definitely an influence around here. and i wasn't insinuating it was the source of the dislike/hate, only potentially stoking the flames. people already tend to be nintendo biased anyway, wanting them to essentially "give up" and go third party, and using extreme superlatives to describe their supposed bad choices. it feels like a lot of people here are already made up on the fate of the switch. nobody even wants to give it a chance. i mean i can already tell from your comments you pretty much have your mind made up. i can understand the misgivings, but it's so relentlessly negative. just take a step back and weigh the pros and cons a bit.

jeff had some good and clear things to say in regards to the switch that weren't biased, but a good chunk of it too was forced confusion about the device and what sounded like blind denial of its portable capabilities (the fucking 3ds has the same battery life, or close enough that it doesn't matter). i already have seen quite a few commenters echoing his sentiments. he's got an influence here, no doubt about it.

If you roam around this forum you'll notice lots of disagreements with Jeff's opinion, I think maybe you're getting a bit defensive as you have an emotional connection to Nintendo more so than others. I have disagreed with lots of opinions that Jeff has had in the past (RDR was my Game of the Generation).

I don't think that it's people have already made up their mind about the console, but the trend seems to be too similar to the Wii and Wii U for the core gamers. The hardcore gamers want to play their favourite Nintendo franchises and am sure they do not mind about buying hardware which only Nintendo will make. The issue is the strategy behind the consoles they are trying make, pricing, peripherals, gaming droughts etc. This has occurred with the Wii and the Wii U which is the reason I stated in the OP that they should have gone down the 3DS route for their new hybrid console. It should have been portable/on-the-go as its primary use and home console secondary.

On what it 'should have been' we will have to wait and see. I remember people saying the Wii 'should have been' a regular console with 3rd party games directly in contention with Sony and Microsoft at the time. Looking back, we can clearly say that it should not have been that at all. If we take the hypothesis that there will be a Switch as is and a on-the-go Switch as I suggested, then I would buy the original Switch. I don't think you can say that a completely portable handheld would have been better for everyone.

My point was not so much that the Switch is identical to a laptop, more that the use case situation is similar. If you want a completely portable Switch, then maybe you will get it in a year or two. I think it will happen.

You, along with Mr. Gerstmann, are the worst.

I don't either, cause I don't know anyone who owns a 3DS.