Goku or Vegeta?

Vegeta is a dumbass who, despite his colossal arrogance, is always second best at the best of times. He can't stop talking about how he's a super elite this, super elite that. He kills his comrades, he massacres defenseless villagers, he beats up little kids. At one point he tries to blow up a planet. Ever since he got turned from villain to anti-hero he couldn't beat anyone besides throw-off opponents or enemies that were caught off guard because they were busy fighting someone else. Dude's a jerk, and while I don't mind him being there in the story, being a fan of him is a bit beyond me. It's just convenient to have a big arrogant dork get the snot kicked out of him by the bad guy until Goku can turn up and do the fight for reals.

@kega: Thanks :) no I don't have a blog and I've not been an active member in the dragonball community for about 5 years now.

These days I only post here and on Rest-era occasionally.

On the all systems goku question, if @jeff and @danryckert were interested, I'd be happy to do so.

This is the real answer.

@mindbullet said:

Toriyama tried to do so, and in the end he decided it wasn't working. He says in interviews he ended up frustrated with Gohan, as if the character couldn't take the reigns of the manga.

I have to say Goku. Vegeta is Mondo Cool and all, but Goku carries the early days of DB, the budokai tournaments, the Red Ribbon army and probably all the funniest moments in the series. Also, he makes me feel like I am seven years old in front of my old TV again.

Having the childhood fondness of Goku from watching Dragonball and Dragonball Z so much as a kid, I have to say I will always love Goku. But if I were to seperate myself from that as an Adult, I feel like Vegeta would be a clear pick.

Picking between the two I will still say Goku cause I'm a sucker for the action hero who saves the day.

@redhotchilimist:Keep in mind Vegeta has a character arc that lasts throughout Z and by the end of the Majiin Buu arc (and definitely into Super) is a very different character than when he first shows up. I feel like a lot of his fandom comes with this in mind. Of course, if I were watching for the first time alongside dan and jeff I would feel exactly the same as you. Just something to consider.

Boku

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1JEbnWl8iz0

I haven't really watched Dragon Ball, listening to the podcast. As I understand it the biggest knock against Goku is he is a "bad dad" (doesn't he sacrifice himself to give Gohan the confidence to beat Cell?) whereas Vegeta is a mass murderer jerk who later becomes just a jerk. So I would go with Goku.

Vegeta obviously. I prefer a little anti in my hero. I also prefer interesting over strongest or "goodest." Which is also why I prefer Batman to Superman.

Goku is the original idiot Shonen protagonist. To be fair though, all the major derivative works have really turned the idiocy up to 11 for their main characters(One Piece, Naruto). So Goku is also the smartest Shonen protagonist.

@themanwithnoplan: That's probably some of it, but the impression I get from internet osmosis is not that people disliked the dude until he sacrificed himself against Buu or Super happened twenty years later. It's more like some people are just Dan Ryckert and go "OOOH VEGETA MURDERED THOSE GUYS (I'LL PUT THAT IN MY LINKIN PARK AMV)". I'm not gonna sit here and talk for all of his fans, though, and the Frieza saga is definitely the most recent in my mind since I'm keeping up with All Systems Goku.

So... for the Cell thing, Cell decides to organize a tournament where everyone fights him. Really, Cell just wants to fight Goku and he wants everyone to see Goku get defeated. But then Goku just gives up because he's pushed himself to his limit and Cell is way stronger than that. So he tells Gohan it's his turn to fight - because Gohan, for whatever reason, has more potential than anybody and is the only one capable of beating Cell at that time. But just as a terrified 9 year old Gohan and a very annoyed Cell are about to start fighting, Goku throws Cell a Senzu bean because he wants to see Gohan beat Cell at his strongest. Piccolo then berates Goku for not telling anyone, including Gohan, his plans, and the Senzu bean thing was entirely unnecessary.

That's not the only "Goku is a bad dad" bit, but it is the most egregious of the series. Later on in the fight, Cell decides to blow himself up Chiaotzu-style and take the whole Earth with him. Goku teleports Cell off the planet and blows up with Cell, which is where the self-sacrifice thing comes in. Side note: Goku's ability to teleport is explained and shown well before this, so this ability doesn't come out of nowhere. Unlike being able to read Krillin's mind.

Dragonball Z's goofy nonsense is a lot of fun to watch most of the time, but it definitely has some plot points that are hard to swallow. Everyone places their faith in Goku to save the day but he fumbles quite a bit as the series goes on. Gohan would be a much better hero, but after the Cell fight he tends to keep his nose in his books and loses strength because of it.

I've only seen Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z up until the end of the Frieza/Namek plot wayyyy back in the day.

The best person is probably Kid Goku from the original

The most interesting person is Vegeta as he has some big character moments, he's way worse as a person than Adult Goku, but he's a lot less boring.

@justin258: I don't think he's 9 years old at that point? Most media I've seen refers to Gohan during the cell saga as 'Teen Gohan'.

@mezza: He's 16 when he goes to high school, which is seven years after Cell gets defeated.

The games tend to refer to Buu era Gohan as adult Gohan even though he has a ways to go before he's an adult, and Cell era Gohan as teen Gohan even though he isn't yet a teenager.

@qrowdyy said:

Vegeta obviously. I prefer a little anti in my hero. I also prefer interesting over strongest or "goodest." Which is also why I prefer Batman to Superman.

Goku is the original idiot Shonen protagonist. To be fair though, all the major derivative works have really turned the idiocy up to 11 for their main characters(One Piece, Naruto). So Goku is also the smartest Shonen protagonist.

Whaaaattttt? Super made Goku so unbelievably stupid I'm surprised he can walk. Naruto's freaking Einstein compared to him and Luffy's still quite a bit smarter.

@nicksmi56: I'm talking about the Goku that existed before One Piece and Naruto, aka Z not Super. I'm not surprised that they made Goku even more of an idiot in Super. You'll know that Shonen anime reached the pinnacle of its evolution when they make a protagonist who's functionally brain dead.

Goku is a battle-obsessed idiot while Vegeta is a battle-obsessed asshole. The thing here is that Goku only becomes MORE of an idiot as time goes on while Vegeta becomes less of an asshole as time goes on. By the time Super happens, Vegeta comes off as a family man that enjoys fighting but will prioritize being with his family over fighting if he needs to. On the other hand, by the time Super happens or even End of Z, Goku seems to care about nothing but trying to desperately find people that will satisfy his lust for battle. In Super, he puts the entire multiverse at risk while chasing this high and in End of Z, he basically tells his family to fuck off so he can train Uub solely to help make Uub strong enough to satisfy his battle lust.

Vegeta's whole pompous royal pride thing is pretty obnoxious but at least the guy gets character growth. At the end of the Cell Saga, he even vows to never fight again (which of course didn't last once Goku showed up again, but still). Goku is a lovable oaf, but his oafishness can get pretty unbearable at times and his character seems to regress more often than not. So they both kinda suck while also being kinda cool? Makes it a hard question to answer as a result, but I'd go with Vegeta if only because I can appreciate his character arc from heartless villain to family man.

Piccolo is better than both of them, obviously.

As far as characters go, Vegeta is way more interesting in the sense that he has a lot of character progression through the entire series. Goku on the other hand really feels like he is just the same character he's always been and only changes in so much as "Now I'm lvl 1, now 2, Now I'm blue, now I'm running off instinct. Yeah, Vegeta's primary motivator is "How can I lose to this peon!" and he does have the whole 'psychopathic killer' angle which is a real big knock on the character.

To me though, having just finished watching Super (skipping some of it to be fair) though he comes off as the way more interesting character. He keeps his promises, he cares about his friends and family, he's got the whole "i refuse to admit it" gimmick but it breaks down enough through the series to show that its just an act he puts up.

Where as Goku, in super at least, comes off as a complete and total idiot and psychopath. No less then a dozen times does he abandon his family to go train. No less then a dozen times does he put other peoples lives at risk purely so he can fight. He quickly forgets his promises, he risks peoples lives purely because it makes fights more entertaining for him. I.e. compared to Vegita who will go hit maximum strength from the get-go, Goku takes his time playing with his opponents through-out the series.

Heck, the entire sub-plot between Gohan and Piccolo is about how Piccolo is a great father-figure too Gohan, where as his actual father is in comparison a pretty shit one.

It feels intentional too me that, while Goku has to be the main character cause tradition, the writers favorite character has shifted with time. As has, given the poll, most of the audiences (if it was ever more evenly split back in the 90s to begin with)

always been team vegeta. like others have mentioned he has a good arc and redeems himself in the buu saga (cmon you know you got some tears at that ONE part nudge nudge) I just think he is more interesting and i always gravitate to the antihero or antagonists who have flaws and motivations I can understand.

Goku is 1 dimensional and is god/jesus in that he always sacrifices himself and always does the right thing. except raising his family and treating chi chi like a side hoe.

Vegeta was always the cool guy as a kid, but as an adult Goku's just more fun.

I should clarify I mean when I was a kid, and now as an adult. Not kid Vegata/adult Goku.

Fuckin Dragon Ball.