I've had success in the past with craigslist, but I'd like to widen my options. What other places have local listings (by county or region) where you guys have found success? It doesn't need to be a source where you actually got the graphic design job. Getting called for an interview is good enough for me.
Any help in finding good aggregate job listings websites that actually work is greatly appreciated.
I've had success in the past with craigslist, but I'd like to widen my options. What other places have local listings (by county or region) where you guys have found success? It doesn't need to be a source where you actually got the graphic design job. Getting called for an interview is good enough for me.
Any help in finding good aggregate job listings websites that actually work is greatly appreciated.
Check elance for jobs maybe? Did you make a LinkedIn profile? That would probably help. Post on Facebook that you're looking for a job. Get your networking on. I just found a potential SEO job from a friend, although I probably won't take it due to a very long commute, but it is an option.
I've had success in the past with craigslist, but I'd like to widen my options. What other places have local listings (by county or region) where you guys have found success? It doesn't need to be a source where you actually got the graphic design job. Getting called for an interview is good enough for me.
Any help in finding good aggregate job listings websites that actually work is greatly appreciated.
Check elance for jobs maybe? Did you make a LinkedIn profile? That would probably help. Post on Facebook that you're looking for a job. Get your networking on. I just found a potential SEO job from a friend, although I probably won't take it due to a very long commute, but it is an option.
I have a linkedin profile and I signed up for elance to see what it was about, but it seems to be mostly for freelance stuff.
Not sure where you are located, but Bethesda's job listings have a graphic design/ artist or something along those lines I believe.
If you go to Beth Blog and look through the job listings it;s there along with a surprising amount of other jobs listed among the studios that Zenimax have under their wings
I've had success in the past with craigslist, but I'd like to widen my options. What other places have local listings (by county or region) where you guys have found success? It doesn't need to be a source where you actually got the graphic design job. Getting called for an interview is good enough for me.
Any help in finding good aggregate job listings websites that actually work is greatly appreciated.
Check elance for jobs maybe? Did you make a LinkedIn profile? That would probably help. Post on Facebook that you're looking for a job. Get your networking on. I just found a potential SEO job from a friend, although I probably won't take it due to a very long commute, but it is an option.
I just submitted my first elance proposal to a client so here's hoping I get selected for the job out of 25 other proposals. The client listed $50 as their budget and I listed my fee as $30.
If any designer could give me some tips on how to approach a freelance job when there are a good number of other people competing and I know their price range I would greatly appreciate it.
This was the job description...
Real Estate Investor needing sophisticated, elegant, simple logo to be made out of "Home Buying Riverside" , have not decided how logo should look. Initials or full lettering are my choices, which ever looks best. Colors are as seen onhttp://passionlifechurch.com/ logo design.
Job description:
I am very interested in seeing Word Mark, Letterform, or Emblem logos.
Logo type:
Other or Not Sure
My proposal was...
My name is Giovanni Olguin and I live in Riverside, California. I was attracted to your job offering because it mentioned Riverside and I figured a designer who might live in the same Riverside would be better suited to create a logo for you.
I don't know if "Home Buying Riverside" is based out of California so I didn't take any design cues from the city, but I did create 2 quick logos with two variations each for a total of 4. I don't know if you'll choose me for the job, but I made them as a sample to give you an idea of a design direction if you do choose me.
I have listed the estimated deliver date as 1 day, but the logo could very well be finished several hours after I know the specifics of what you need in the logo design.
I have attached the Home Buying Riverside logo samples as a jpeg file. I have also attached my resume and my portfolio as pdf files if you'd like to know more about the quality of my finished designs. The portfolio has over 15 pieces if you'd like to look at them.
im no expert but aren't you supposed to do the work after they they agree to pay you? seems like a lot of extra work if you could just show a portfolio instead.
I'd watermark your images in the future. That way they can't just take em.
Two don't undercut your peers. They are trying to feed themselves as well.
As said above a portfolio is supposed to show your work. You could make some quick mockups, but don't go too far. into it.
Also if you work cheap once, they will expect it every time. Working cheap or free is a good way to build a professional portfolio; but you need to let clients know up front. Since you are young and such that this is a one time price, and in the future you will charging them accordingly.
Also check Reddit for a Subreddit on GraphicDesigners or whatever; they can steer you in the right direction for pricing your time, skills and use of equipment.
im no expert but aren't you supposed to do the work after they they agree to pay you? seems like a lot of extra work if you could just show a portfolio instead.
Yes, but I have no leverage as a new user so I'm trying to stand out. I also sent my portfolio with 15+ pieces since those mockups are a bit lacking.
im no expert but aren't you supposed to do the work after they they agree to pay you? seems like a lot of extra work if you could just show a portfolio instead.
Yes, but I have no leverage as a new user so I'm trying to stand out. I also sent my portfolio with 15+ pieces since those mockups are a bit lacking.
You have plenty of leverage, don't sell yourself short. Yes you are new and inexperienced but if your portfolio (even if it's mostly or all school stuff) is great you'll be fine. If they say 50 is their budget, say $100 is what you normally would charge for something like this, and say you'll take 50. Make sure to mention total amount of time you are willing to spend on revisions and stuff cause otherwise they'll be having you do 1400 things.
SELL YOURSELF, you are a freelancer. Why should they take you over someone else. I work freelance all the time on TV Shows; impress, be confident but not cocky.
If you are looking for full time work; magazine, news papers anything local will be good options. You can freelance at the same time. Any sort of local chain is a good option as well, like a coffee shop or sandwich place with a few locations.
Freelancing is the art of working 12 jobs at once and meeting every deadline. Good luck!
I'd watermark your images in the future. That way they can't just take em.
Two don't undercut your peers. They are trying to feed themselves as well.
As said above a portfolio is supposed to show your work. You could make some quick mockups, but don't go too far. into it.
Also if you work cheap once, they will expect it every time. Working cheap or free is a good way to build a professional portfolio; but you need to let clients know up front. Since you are young and such that this is a one time price, and in the future you will charging them accordingly.
Also check Reddit for a Subreddit on GraphicDesigners or whatever; they can steer you in the right direction for pricing your time, skills and use of equipment.
I considered watermarking the images, but I didn't want to seem like I thought the client would run off with those designs. I compressed the quality to get some artifacting in the image, though I suppose if the client wants to steal it they wouldn't care about the quality of the image.
I understand what working for cheap does to the pricing, but I want at least a few jobs completed in my profile before I propose realistic prices. I read a bit about freelances on elance and a lot of them complain about people from India working for essentially nothing and clients accepting that. There were 30 proposals for that job. One was a girl from the US with 7 jobs completed on her profile. Another was a company in Canada with a bunch of completed jobs. The last English speaking possibility is a graphic design firm in the UK with more than enough jobs completed to entice anyone. The rest of the designers and/or firms were based out of India or Eastern Europe. I assume they are the ones that are bidding as low as $21 for the job. The average is about $46 and the highest bid is $100. I was originally gonna go with $40 to be a bit below the average, but is a new user going to find clients by being in the price range as everyone else?
I did end up spending a bit more time on the mockups then I had initially thought, but once I'm in the zone I feel like I need to bang out my ideas. I stopped myself at two designs with two variations each, but I had at least two more ideas in my head that I stopped myself from making.
I will check out that subreddit for graphic designers right now.
I'd watermark your images in the future. That way they can't just take em.
Two don't undercut your peers. They are trying to feed themselves as well.
As said above a portfolio is supposed to show your work. You could make some quick mockups, but don't go too far. into it.
Also if you work cheap once, they will expect it every time. Working cheap or free is a good way to build a professional portfolio; but you need to let clients know up front. Since you are young and such that this is a one time price, and in the future you will charging them accordingly.
Also check Reddit for a Subreddit on GraphicDesigners or whatever; they can steer you in the right direction for pricing your time, skills and use of equipment.
I considered watermarking the images, but I didn't want to seem like I thought the client would run off with those designs. I compressed the quality to get some artifacting in the image, though I suppose if the client wants to steal it they wouldn't care about the quality of the image.
I understand what working for cheap does to the pricing, but I want at least a few jobs completed in my profile before I propose realistic prices. I read a bit about freelances on elance and a lot of them complain about people from India working for essentially nothing and clients accepting that. There were 30 proposals for that job. One was a girl from the US with 7 jobs completed on her profile. Another was a company in Canada with a bunch of completed jobs. The last English speaking possibility is a graphic design firm in the UK with more than enough jobs completed to entice anyone. The rest of the designers and/or firms were based out of India or Eastern Europe. I assume they are the ones that are bidding as low as $21 for the job. The average is about $46 and the highest bid is $100. I was originally gonna go with $40 to be a bit below the average, but is a new user going to find clients by being in the price range as everyone else?
I did end up spending a bit more time on the mockups then I had initially thought, but once I'm in the zone I feel like I need to bang out my ideas. I stopped myself at two designs with two variations each, but I had at least two more ideas in my head that I stopped myself from making.
I will check out that subreddit for graphic designers right now.
A very faint watermark is fine. No most places won't run off with it; but it's a good idea if you do plan to put it on your website or whatever. Especially since it's on elance.
http://www.reddit.com/r/freelance would honestly be a better place to ask questions at least in terms of Graphic Design.
Also there's plenty of job boards out there for all kinds of creative jobs, similar to monster or career builder but just focusing on the creative jobs that you & I are looking for. Just put in a search engine or look for recruiter/agencies that specialize in creative jobs. Good luck to all on GB who are looking for something new for a job!!
I have no advice to give you, but I just wanted to say I think those logo's look very professional.
As a first pass on a concept with no input from the client I see a lot of issues and ways to make them look better if I was selected for the project, but it's always nice to hear good things. Thanks.
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I've been reading up a lot on pricing practices and freelancing tips. It really makes me appreciate my $8.00 an hour graphic design internship with 25 hours a week. It wasn't always pretty, but it was always a paycheck at the end of the week. Here's hoping I can at least land something part time and use freelancing gigs as gas money or something.
Elance seems to be one big bummer. The "Home Buying Riverside" client cancelled their job postings due to a "project cancellation" several hours after I had posted my proposal with the four logo designs. I'm sure that's just a coincidence despite the job posting being up for a full week before I had posted my proposal. Today I thought I would land my first client with a logo for a website. $40 price seemed to have been agreed upon and everything seemed good until...
Client: I like your ideas. Will that price include stationary logo and a relevant favicon?
Me: I could create a favicon for the website logo for the current price as it would only add an hour or two more to the workload.
The logo would be as is delivered (and any 2-4 variations that get made during a revision) and that could be applied to a stationery set, but the price and time does not include the creation of a stationery set with business cards, envelope, and letterhead. Making those items would be a much longer process and the price would reflect that.
I will create the website logo and create a favicon for that logo for the current price. If that sounds acceptable I could start working on the logo right now.
Client: How many revisions?
Me: For the price and time I could create 3 initial ideas and submit them to you. You'll look them over and decide which idea you would like to see developed. I will take the one you decided on and then give you three variations with slight changes. You will look them over and choose a final one and I can make any last changes you requested to that.
I will deliver the final logo as a pdf, png, and jpeg file.
Once the logo is approved I will make the favicon, which given the tiny size would probably be the initials "HS" or maybe some sheep/animal iconography that will be recognizable at such a small size. It would have some aspect of the final logo.
I would make 2 ideas (options limited with small size) and submit them to you. You decide which one to develop further and mention any changes in color, shape, etc. and I then deliver the final icon.
The favicon will be a 16x16 pixel icon in ico file format.
An hour after that exchange I find out that the client decided to go with a company in Pakistan that offers 24/7 service and UNLIMITED REVISIONS. You can't compete with unlimited revisions. I've dealt with clients that continue to change their minds for weeks, but I didn't care because I was getting paid by the hour at my internship. Maybe I should have set prices for each round of revisions so that they feel like they have more options, but I continue to get paid more with each additional revision. Maybe I simply can't compete with Pakistan prices of $12 an hour and unlimited revisions. All this when I was just about to get started on their sheep logo to show them I'm serious about their offer.
@golguin: This might not be of much help to you but creativepool.co.uk is really good for your needs if you live in the UK. I am guessing you are not but you might be able to find some freelance work there where you can work from home.
@golguin: This might not be of much help to you but creativepool.co.uk is really good for your needs if you live in the UK. I am guessing you are not but you might be able to find some freelance work there where you can work from home.
I don't live in the UK and from all the lurking I've been doing on elance in the past few days it seems that the only way to land online freelance work is if you live in a country where the standard of living allows for the cheapest rates possible. I still appreciate the suggestion.
im no expert but aren't you supposed to do the work after they they agree to pay you? seems like a lot of extra work if you could just show a portfolio instead.
Yes, but I have no leverage as a new user so I'm trying to stand out. I also sent my portfolio with 15+ pieces since those mockups are a bit lacking.
You have plenty of leverage, don't sell yourself short. Yes you are new and inexperienced but if your portfolio (even if it's mostly or all school stuff) is great you'll be fine. If they say 50 is their budget, say $100 is what you normally would charge for something like this, and say you'll take 50. Make sure to mention total amount of time you are willing to spend on revisions and stuff cause otherwise they'll be having you do 1400 things.
SELL YOURSELF, you are a freelancer. Why should they take you over someone else. I work freelance all the time on TV Shows; impress, be confident but not cocky.
If you are looking for full time work; magazine, news papers anything local will be good options. You can freelance at the same time. Any sort of local chain is a good option as well, like a coffee shop or sandwich place with a few locations.
Freelancing is the art of working 12 jobs at once and meeting every deadline. Good luck!
Subject2Change is correct. What you are doing here is called working "on speculation"; meaning employment conditional upon being selected as part of a contest "prize" or providing work to the employer for free as part of some sort of recruitment test. Do not do this. Ever. Companies prey on inexperienced designers and artists by putting them through exactly this runaround.
If company asks for samples, direct them to your portfolio. If company will not agree to payment terms prior to your starting work, tell them to fuck right the hell off with or without the horse that they may or may not have ridden in on.
I'm afraid to say this is a cutthroat industry you've chosen. I did it for a couples years before I quit from stress and frustration. My advice? Be a custom photo/art framer or run a printing shop. That's where the easy money is.
im no expert but aren't you supposed to do the work after they they agree to pay you? seems like a lot of extra work if you could just show a portfolio instead.
Yes, but I have no leverage as a new user so I'm trying to stand out. I also sent my portfolio with 15+ pieces since those mockups are a bit lacking.
You have plenty of leverage, don't sell yourself short. Yes you are new and inexperienced but if your portfolio (even if it's mostly or all school stuff) is great you'll be fine. If they say 50 is their budget, say $100 is what you normally would charge for something like this, and say you'll take 50. Make sure to mention total amount of time you are willing to spend on revisions and stuff cause otherwise they'll be having you do 1400 things.
SELL YOURSELF, you are a freelancer. Why should they take you over someone else. I work freelance all the time on TV Shows; impress, be confident but not cocky.
If you are looking for full time work; magazine, news papers anything local will be good options. You can freelance at the same time. Any sort of local chain is a good option as well, like a coffee shop or sandwich place with a few locations.
Freelancing is the art of working 12 jobs at once and meeting every deadline. Good luck!
Subject2Change is correct. What you are doing here is called working "on speculation"; meaning employment conditional upon being selected as part of a contest "prize" or providing work to the employer for free as part of some sort of recruitment test. Do not do this. Ever. Companies prey on inexperienced designers and artists by putting them through exactly this runaround.
If company asks for samples, direct them to your portfolio. If company will not agree to payment terms prior to your starting work, tell them to fuck right the hell off with or without the horse that they may or may not have ridden in on.
I'm afraid to say this is a cutthroat industry you've chosen. I did it for a couples years before I quit from stress and frustration. My advice? Be a custom photo/art framer or run a printing shop. That's where the easy money is.
So what you're saying is that I shouldn't have submitted these 3 logos to the "Revive Luma" client?
At the very least I really downgraded the quality of the jpeg and I added my little water mark in case they try to steal the logo. Coincidentally the client is located in Petaluma, California and I believe the bombcrew lives around there. Maybe they could go regulate if I get jacked again.
@golguin: I mean don't do the job before you are hired to do the job, yeah. The danger isn't so much them stealing your work (which is possible) but more that you're doing that work on your own time for free; and if they say no, you just wasted however much time those samples took you to put together.
When you're trying to break in to the industry, best place to focus efforts is on your portfolio. Make that thing look amazing, market yourself (necessary evil), and jobs will follow. Just don't work for free! Do that and your clients will come back looking for more freebies. On that I have personal experience. :/
I assume you're already registered at Dribbble? If not, check it out, some clients like to scout new talents there, and if you sign up as a pro, you can be hired directly through the site.
I just signed up for Behance and Dribble. They seem to be pretty good sources for design inspiration. Sometimes searching google images isn't enough to ignite that creative spark.
You seem to be lacking a little confidence, which comes with inexperience i guess, but don't stress too much it won't take long before you start to work out peoples expectations and how far they will take you for a ride paying as little as possible.
I really can't understate how important it is to try and be confident about you're pricing and time commitment, for some reason many people come into these things with an expectation that you are their slave and are there to spend all day every day doing revisions on their ideas when they change their mind for the 1800th time.
Then they send you gift voucher instead of paying you. I'm serious.
The best thing you can do is outline your costs and make them understand that you're time is valuable - you really can't be afraid to knock people back if they have unrealistic expectations (although it is difficult if you are desperate for the work), or just let them know honestly what you are capable of, at the end of the day they will most likely will come to the table and admire you're proffesionalism. If a client views you as a young inexperienced designer they are going to treat you like they are doing you a favour and that's not what you want.
I would say also make your correspondence short and to the point, most people don't want to put a lot of energy into it and just want to see some finished results. Otherwise they seem to want to micromanage the whole project and change their mind every five minutes which i would equally steer away from if possible by not giving them the option.
Based on what you're posting, you are not ready at all to freelance. You don't have any real understanding of how the business side of the creative industry works. I understand needing money and wanting to build up your portfolio and start your career, but you need to do a lot more research.
Avoid sites like elance as you will never earn a decent wage from them. They are all a race to the bottom where people will work for peanuts. I don't care who the client is, there is no fucking way a logo design costs only $50. If a client has a budget that low, move on. Don't even waste your time reading their listing.
Avoid spec work like its the plague. Never work for any client who doesn't pay you up front. Spec work is completely unfair to the designer as you will never earn any money unless you "win" the chance to work for the client. Any client who is asking for spec work is going to be a shitty client. They are going to expect the world from you for as little money as possible. Never start a job without a down payment, generally 50%. That way if the client flakes or kills the project, you are still compensated somewhat.
The best thing you can do right now is create a strong portfolio. Then use that to try and get gigs. Email that to job listings and potential clients and tell them to get back to you if they are interested.
Determine what you feel your time and work is worth. There are plenty of books and sites that will give you an understanding of what you should charge. Also look into creating a contract that you will have all clients sign before you start any job. A good contract will save your ass. It keeps the client in check. It will include the price you both agreed to, the amount of revisions, a timeframe for when the project is due, the rights the client is to receive, etc. I have to emphasize that you learn about the different types of rights. Learning that will save you from being severely underpaid if something you create takes off. It also keeps the client from doing whatever they want without your approval.
TLDR: Research the business side of the creative industry, avoid spec sites like elance, never do spec work, always get a down payment, never give the client the files without receiving full payment, always have the client sign a contract.
I assume you're already registered at Dribbble? If not, check it out, some clients like to scout new talents there, and if you sign up as a pro, you can be hired directly through the site.
Dribbble is great, if you get an invite that allows you to post work. I've been a member for years it seems and have never gotten an invite.
I suppose I didn't clarify that I don't intend to make freelancing my job. I see it as gas money and a way to beef up my resume since I only have my internship as "real" experience. I did graduated Summa Cum Laude from Cal Poly Pomona. I have my BFA in Graphic Design and two minors (Marketing Management and Art History). I don't know how that looks on a resume, but I do have my portfolio and I send the thing along with my resume to every job I apply for.
I am fully aware that I am working for essentially nothing. I could either do that while I wait to land a job or I could simply continue to look for jobs and sit on my ass in the meantime. At least this way I keep my creative juices flowing.
I am happy to report that I did land the Petaluma "Revive Luma" gig so I guess the client liked the three logos I sent or maybe they looked at my pdf portfolio and liked what they saw. I wont really know until I hear back form them since they're probably asleep. Elance says the money for the job has been deposited and is in holding so at least I know there is real money in play.
I appreciated all the responses thus far and if you guys have more legit graphic designs websites that I can sign up for like Dribble and Behance I am happy to hear more.
im no expert but aren't you supposed to do the work after they they agree to pay you? seems like a lot of extra work if you could just show a portfolio instead.
Yes, but I have no leverage as a new user so I'm trying to stand out. I also sent my portfolio with 15+ pieces since those mockups are a bit lacking.
You have plenty of leverage, don't sell yourself short. Yes you are new and inexperienced but if your portfolio (even if it's mostly or all school stuff) is great you'll be fine. If they say 50 is their budget, say $100 is what you normally would charge for something like this, and say you'll take 50. Make sure to mention total amount of time you are willing to spend on revisions and stuff cause otherwise they'll be having you do 1400 things.
SELL YOURSELF, you are a freelancer. Why should they take you over someone else. I work freelance all the time on TV Shows; impress, be confident but not cocky.
If you are looking for full time work; magazine, news papers anything local will be good options. You can freelance at the same time. Any sort of local chain is a good option as well, like a coffee shop or sandwich place with a few locations.
Freelancing is the art of working 12 jobs at once and meeting every deadline. Good luck!
Subject2Change is correct. What you are doing here is called working "on speculation"; meaning employment conditional upon being selected as part of a contest "prize" or providing work to the employer for free as part of some sort of recruitment test. Do not do this. Ever. Companies prey on inexperienced designers and artists by putting them through exactly this runaround.
If company asks for samples, direct them to your portfolio. If company will not agree to payment terms prior to your starting work, tell them to fuck right the hell off with or without the horse that they may or may not have ridden in on.
I'm afraid to say this is a cutthroat industry you've chosen. I did it for a couples years before I quit from stress and frustration. My advice? Be a custom photo/art framer or run a printing shop. That's where the easy money is.
So what you're saying is that I shouldn't have submitted these 3 logos to the "Revive Luma" client?
At the very least I really downgraded the quality of the jpeg and I added my little water mark in case they try to steal the logo. Coincidentally the client is located in Petaluma, California and I believe the bombcrew lives around there. Maybe they could go regulate if I get jacked again.
Your work is good, and you have a watermark behind it; so it helps. Honestly these can go in your portfolio. Heck looking at these listing and doing mockups and roughs is a good idea to improve your skills.
I didn't want to create another topic for the same thing so I guess this is an update.
Elance seems to be working out pretty good. I've completed a few jobs, got paid, but then I ran out of elance "connects" to apply for more stuff so now I can't do anything until I get them renewed in about a week. After that I'll have 40 proposals to submit each month so I should be good.
In the meantime I'm still trying to find a part time or full graphic design job and I figured I should check out some other "online freelance" website. Odesk was mentioned in this thread so I thought I'd sign up and give it a shot. First impression of that place is pretty bad. The few graphic design jobs I've looked have the clients wanting their logo done in a day for like $20. That's no good.
I'll keep an eye on more job listings on Odesk, but it was kind of a bummer. Does anyone know of any other freelance website that has clients that actually pay above minimum wage? Some 3rd world dudes had their hourly rate around $2 an hour on Odesk. You wont see 3rd world guys like that on elance or at least I haven't seen them win any jobs that I'm also applying for.
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