@LordXavierBritish: I'm sorry, I just find it extremely hard to believe, especially when your "proof" that colleges are requiring students pirate software comes in the form of one person's anecdote of what a friend told him.
" @LordXavierBritish: I'm sorry, I just find it extremely hard to believe, especially when your "proof" that colleges are requiring students pirate software comes in the form of one person's anecdote of what a friend told him. "
School's can't afford to legally hand out expensive software anymore. That's just how it is.
I would assume that they aren't sued because they don't expressly use the words "torrent."
Don't go overboard. Eventually; when you can afford something, buy it or donate. Support the danm developers.
Aswell as that, keep in mind that not everything has to be bought new - second hand sales are a legitimate problem for the devs, but at least it's fully legal.
" @LordXavierBritish: I'm sorry, I just find it extremely hard to believe, especially when your "proof" that colleges are requiring students pirate software comes in the form of one person's anecdote of what a friend told him. "
School's can't afford to legally hand out expensive software anymore. That's just how it is. "
" I would assume that they aren't sued because they don't expressly use the words "torrent." "
I highly doubt that would be all that's required to stop a lawsuit. All Adobe would have to do is see 3,000 BitTorrent downloads coming from the campus (since most campuses are the primary internet provider), sue a student and get testimonies saying that the school encourages the piracy of software.
" Isn't this how it works? Movies and games are a no-no, but music and TV shows are okay. Porn, no matter what form it comes in, is also a free-be. "
Agreed.
I'm sure people in this thread downloaded a song from limewire and never even had the thought that they are supporting piracy. You're either a pirate or you're not. If you pirated ONE THING IN YOUR LIFE, then you're a pirate. You can bullshit as much as you'd like, but you can't pretend you didn't do it and ISPs keep a history of whatever you do on their service from downloading to uploading to internet browsing to streaming media. If you pirated something thats too old to find, saying ''oh but I'm unable to find it in store so its alright!''. NO, it is NOT if you do not support piracy. I love how some people actually think piracy is fine if its for a ''good cause'' or because the product is overpriced or unavailable to them.
You either save the money to buy your products or just pirate the shit outta stuff, your choice.
@ape_dosmil: in regards to my first point: it's not illegal do download, therefor I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm never going to upload, and the majority will never too, BUT the small fraction who upload or mirror the torrents will always be enough to feed the leaches. it's always been the case, and still is.
as for the second'; I stand corrected, that is a bad and not thought out analogy. a better one would be if someone stole something, mass produced it, and then came to my door and asked if i wanted it for free.
" @Three0neFive: Most PC games have a console port. Every game has its minimum and recommended system requirements on the bottom of the box and on the Digital distribution product page. http://cyri.systemrequirementslab.com/CYRI/ System requirements lab has that tool you can run that will tell you what you can and cannot run. Waiting for the game to show up in a Steam sale is also a great way to try out the game. Buy it for cheap and if you don't like it then you aren't out a whole ton of money. "
A console port is not a good indication of what a game will be like on PC. There could be a game on console with awesome controls and online, while the PC version is a terrible port with buggy netcode (and vice versa). The system requirements on the back of games don't mean shit nowadays, often those are literally just the bare minimum you need to start up the game - as in, "this is running at 5 frames per second on the lowest possible settings, it's not playable but technically it is running". As well, there are just so many compatibility issues that it's impossible for the developers to test the billions of possible combinations. As mentioned by LordXavierBritish, System Requirements Lab is often inaccurate, and that's a hell of a thing to gamble $60 on.
As far as buying them on sale, that goes back to my original argument - why should people be forced to pay for something that might not even work? If you were to buy, say, Uncharted 2, only to pop it in and find that it crashes after 5 minutes every time and you aren't able to get a refund, I'm sure you wouldnt think twice about pirating your next game to make sure it actually works first.
@LordXavierBritish: You making generalized statements does not make them the rule, either.
Also, for someone who claims to not be an encyclopedia, you sure happen to know a lot about what colleges can and cannot afford, and what they do and don't suggest their students do.
" I don't think it's wrong if you were never going to buy it in the first place, because the developers don't lose anything. I do it all the time with video games I would never pay for, and most of the time I just play for them for a few days before getting bored. If I have any plans on playing the game often, then I'll save up and get it when I can. The only exception is if it's an old game that can be played on an emulator, 'cause I'm not paying $100 for it over eBay. Or maybe it's not fine. Either way, that's just what I do. "
I always thought that this argument was totally bs. Have you ever bought a game after pirating it? I don't see how this is a justification since if you have no interest in buying it (and by extension, playing it for any extended period of time), why are you pirating it? "
There's plenty of games I'd like to play but would never pay money for. I downloaded the first Mafia game last night for the story, but if I had to pay for it I would never play it. I started playing EarthBound a few weeks ago on an emulator, but I'm not going to hunt down a working SNES and a $100 copy of the game just to play it. I also had an urge to play SimCity 4 earlier this week, but that urge only lasted two days. I'm 17, I work part-time at minimum wage, and most of that money goes towards things like gas, college, and a new car. I don't have the money to pay for every video game I have a slight interest in. When I do buy a video game, I have to make sure it's at a decent price and will last me a while. If not, I'll either rent or pirate it. Between avoiding everything because I can't pay for it or pirating it, I'll go with pirating. Maybe it's not right, but it isn't hurting the developers when it's the only way I would play their game. "
Actually you could get a gamefly account so someone does pay for that game you are playing and also im 19 and have to pay for the same crap you do and I still manage to pay for games I want this year I have bought 4 games and plan to buy maybe 3 more. Also games are not a right or something you need to live there entertainment I dont see where this sense of entitlement comes from
@Three0neFive: If a game crashed on me every 5 minutes I would no longer buy any game made by that developer (Naughty Dog in this case). Also if the game was incredibly unstable wouldn't all of the reviews menton that? Maybe we should be saying something to the publishers about getting better system requirements on the box. Which is what system requirements lab uses as a benchmark for testing.
" @ape_dosmil: in regards to my first point: it's not illegal do download, therefor I'm not doing anything illegal. I'm never going to upload, and the majority will never too, BUT the small fraction who upload or mirror the torrents will always be enough to feed the leaches. it's always been the case, and still is. "
You're a leech then. Putting aside the legal and moral issues for a second, if you're going to use torrents then at least have the decency to upload back and retain a fair ratio.
@LordXavierBritish: Grade/Middle/High Schools != colleges. Pre-college schools are paid solely through taxes. Colleges are paid through tuition and are often working towards a profit. Not to mention the unnecessary charging to out-of-state students. I doubt colleges are as strapped for cash as the schools in your district are.
" How is robbing physical objects from stores or people the same as downloading something off the Internet? "
ITS STILL STEALING THATS HOW "
Except it's not. It's copyright infringement. It is still illegal but they are not the same. Theft applies to corporeal property, not intellectual property.
" My parents are losers who barely make enough money to feed me (though I did get a second-hand computer from my aunt) so my entertainment budget is quite literally $0. I'm also at an age where it's illegal for me to work/no one will hire me except at family businesses, but hey, like I said before, my parents are poor and so obviously they don't have a family business. So what do I do? Do I pirate stuff? If I do, is anyone at all hurt? The company's not out any money if I 'steal', as it's completely impossible for me to pay for their goods. Emphasis on 'completely impossible'. Answer: Wait until I'm old enough to get a job, right? But wait a minute, why is almost everyone else around me allowed to play video games that cost more than a dollar? Because their parents didn't make shitty life choices? Woo, discrimination against the poor~ "
hey lifes not fair and video games not a right also you can make money at your age go door to door offering to do yard work for 10 dollars a yard you rack and mow a lawn in an hour you got your new game in 1 day in july what do you know
" @ape_dosmil: But it's not intellectual property. It's digital property. "
'Digital property' is still a form of intellectual property, at least in my jurisdiction. There might be modern legislation that specifically applies to digital property but that doesn't mean it's not intellectual property.
I find it incredibly interesting (and also frightening) how entitled many people in this thread feel. If you are getting the end-result of someone's work (one that requires compensation), and you do not provide compensation, you're stealing. It doesn't matter if you are unable to provide compensation, because you are still getting the game/software/music/video/etc. You are taking something that was made with the intent of receiving payment without giving payment.
@ape_dosmil: Fair enough. It's an extremely gray area, though. However, while it may legally not be considered theft, by definition ( to take [ the property of another or others] without permission or right), it most certainly is.
@Fish_Face_McGee: I think they would feel less entitled if they had actually created something before.Amount of work that goes into creating even a single level in a modern game is incredible.
" I find it incredibly interesting (and also frightening) how entitled many people in this thread feel. If you are getting the end-result of someone's work (one that requires compensation), and you do not provide compensation, you're stealing. It doesn't matter if you are unable to provide compensation, because you are still getting the game/software/music/video/etc. You are taking something that was made with the intent of receiving payment without giving payment."
If you buy a game/cd/dvd etc. from a second hand store or ebay you are receiving something without ever giving the creators payment. Should the developers of a video game not be entitled to a slice from second hand sales?
" @LordXavierBritish: Really? Colleges are mandating that students steal software? Why aren't they getting sued by Microsoft and Adobe? "
They will not mandate it, they will just say that you have to use the software knowing you will not pay it so Adobe and Microsoft have no proof to taken them to court. In my case is worst because for example they tell me to go and buy the pirated copy of a book in the store that is owned by the college but first I investigate if the book is worth buying and buy a original copy (yeah if the book still sucks I buy the pirated copy).
" @ape_dosmil: I believe they should. That's why I rarely (if ever) by used and why I support the current measures to "fight back" against used sales. "
Fair enough. I'm not arguing in favour of illegal downloading by the way, and I think it is crucial, especially with PC games, that people realize that downloading games illegally does have an effect on the industry and on the development of games in the future. However I don't think comparing illegal downloading to theft is the right way to go about things. They aren't the same.
" @LordXavierBritish: Grade/Middle/High Schools != colleges. Pre-college schools are paid solely through taxes. Colleges are paid through tuition and are often working towards a profit. Not to mention the unnecessary charging to out-of-state students. I doubt colleges are as strapped for cash as the schools in your district are. "
BECAUSE TUITION IS RISING FOR NO REASON.
Public schools = Government funded, whether they are High Schools or Colleges.
If you don't have the money then you don't get the have it. Sorry, that's just how the world works. You don't get the right to steal it just because you wouldn't have payed for it otherwise.
" @Valkyr: How do you pirate a book? You mean like photocopy it? "
Yes, it is still piracy, the scene I just told is very rare because most of the texts we use are written by the professorship and edited by the student center
" If you don't have the money then you don't get the have it. Sorry, that's just how the world works. You don't get the right to steal it just because you wouldn't have payed for it otherwise. "
I agree however I do tend to pirate quite a bit of music myself... Although if I really do enjoy a band then I will go out and buy their cd :/
@LordXavierBritish: You say that (tuition is rising) as though it is a new occurrence. I could not find one instance where tuition has dropped year over year.
" @LordXavierBritish: You say that (tuition is rising) as though it is a new occurrence. I could not find one instance where tuition has dropped year over year. "
I'm not going to argue this with you when there have been several fucking accounts from people IN THIS TOPIC saying that THIS EXACT THING is happening.
@FluxWaveZ: Thinking people that pirate once won't pirate again is pretty stupid too. I don't know how the hell you got the idea that was ''thinking extreme'' but I guess you think that piracy is the worst thing a human being could do. Heres an idea bud, next time you disagree with something I say, state a reason why. Don't just say ''THATS STUPID'' cause it really makes you seem immature.
" @FluxWaveZ: Thinking people that pirate once won't pirate again is pretty stupid too. I don't know how the hell you got the idea that was ''thinking extreme'' but I guess you think that piracy is the worst thing a human being could do. Heres an idea bud, next time you disagree with something I say, state a reason why. Don't just say ''THATS STUPID'' cause it really makes you seem immature. "
Wow, first off, calm down. Second off, you phrased it as though if someone pirated something they would pirate the rest of their media without saving money to buy anything. There's always a middle ground; some people who pirate occasionally will also buy some of the same type of content that they pirate. Saying either someone only pirates or someone only buys is the very definition of "extremes".
@FluxWaveZ: Again, I'm confused as to why I would not be calm (first ''extreme'', now this...?) Just get to the point. -_-
Now the rest of the stuff you wrote misses the point. If you pirate once, YOU ARE A PIRATE. There is no ''middle-ground'' because if RIAA finds you then they'll fine you as much as they can. You simply took one sentence out of my post and characterized it as if I support piracy. Sure theres a middle-ground if you were to look at how many people pirate stuff and how much they pirate, but I'm looking at it from the view of the law.
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