The whiskey thread.

Collecting and consuming whiskey (mostly bourbon) has become a hobby of mine. I call it "adult treasure hunting", as finding that unicorn bottle (especially at a good price) is all kinds of fun. Ultimately, though, I really just enjoy a good whiskey. I'm a drinker, not a flipper. Flipping bottles has become a sad reality in the world of bourbon especially, where people often hoard the tough to find bottles to put them up on the secondary market for significant profit. While part of me can appreciate the capitalism there, it has artificially inflated the price and reduced the availability of the good stuff, and it's fairly annoying to me that people buy a great bottle with no intentions of opening it. I open them and enjoy them.

Starting up top, we've got multiple selections from the Colonel E.H. Taylor line. Their Barrel Proof in particular is among my very favorite bourbons. The Single Barrel is smooth as silk. Maybe too much so, but it's one I'll hand to people who want a less harsh whiskey, and it always seems to please. The Four Grain is a very tough bottle to find, and it has one of the best finishes I've had, but is a bit lighter overall than I'd like it to be. The Rye is very good. I'm hit and miss on ryes, as they'll often be overly spicy or earthy for my palate, but this rye is good on its own and terrific in an old-fashioned. More on that later. The Small Batch is a very good bourbon for the price, and it was my gateway into the E.H. Taylors. There are a few more very rare offerings they have in the Sour Mash, Cured Oak, and Seasoned Wood. The Sour Mash is the only one I haven't tried, but the Cured Oak is extremely good, and the Seasoned Wood is a top three bourbon I've ever had. I might pay too much for a Seasoned Wood if I ever see it. As far as a quality line from top-to-bottom, E.H. Taylor is hard to beat. Nothing they make is bad.

Michter's is an interesting one. If you want to get into the politics of bourbon and what's in a name, there are some interesting reads about Michter's as a company, and to be honest, most if it isn't particularly flattering of the company's business practices. That being said, their bourbon is actually pretty damn good. The Bomberger's is a neat drink (if a little spicy), and they also have a (not pictured) Michter's American has an old-timey profile that I enjoy. I've tried their Toasted Barrel as well, which sadly came off as a little gimmicky and a lot overpriced for a minor flavor I feel like could have duplicated by crushing a little bit of graham cracker into it. The Michter's 10, though? It's damn good. It's a rare enough bottle that I've seen on shelves way overpriced because it can be, but I was lucky enough to find one at its cheapest, which was a really good score, and it has proven to be a great drink at MSRP.

This year's Mid-Winter Night's Dram is sweet, with some interesting notes of dill. It barely even tastes like a rye, but is damn good in its own right. Willett Family Estate is spicy, but makes for a good old-fashioned. I recently sampled a 2016 Booker's Rye (stupidly rare/expensive) and it was slightly underwhelming, though still good. In that same vein, the hot new rye out there, the Kentucky Owl Rye was good, not great. Getting back to bottles I actually own, the Belle Meade stuff is surprisingly good for Tennessee whiskey. The regular is quite smooth, and the Madeira cask is awesome. Oddly enough, I don't care for their single barrel, but maybe I just got a bad bottle. The 2016 Old Scout Single Barrel was a man's bourbon, and a good one at that, but this 2017 has a lot more balance and is a flat-out great drink. The Breckenridge PX Sherry is good, but the regular Breckenridge Bourbon is still the buy there as a surprisingly decent bourbon with a unique flavor thanks to the mountain water. That Maker's Mark Private Select is a store pick, as is the Elijah Craig Small Batch. Both are quite good, with the Elijah Craig being a standout.

The Buffalo Trace products are all pretty excellent. Eagle Rare holds a special place in my heart as a major milestone on my bourbon journey. It was a favorite of one Ryan Davis as well, and the man had good taste. The bottles pictured here are two different single barrel store picks, and they're extremely easy to drink. I also have a not-pictured comically large 1.75 Eagle Rare that I bought half for novelty and half as a nod to a favorite. Blanton's is one of the most varying single bottles out there. Most are good, but I had a poor one two bottles ago that almost soured me on it. The one pictured is thankfully very good. The Blanton's Gold next to it? Well, that's a special one. You can't get it stateside, and it's a great bottle. Thank you, Irish relatives, for that one. Stagg, Jr. is a bit hot for my tastes, but has a lot going for it. It really benefits from some further aging with its "father", George T. Stagg, which was a huge find for me recently. Elmer T. Lee and Rock Hill Farms are both really tough to find now because they're underpriced for how good they are. Also featured there are Weller 12 and Old Weller Antique, which used to be cheap, easy to find quality bourbon until word got out that these ingredients can be blended to make "Poor Man's Pappy", a decent approximation of what's generally considered the world's best bourbon, Pappy Van Winkle. Yes, I have a batch of the poor man's version in my decanter. It's not Pappy, but it's damn good.

On the row below are a pair of 1792 products, which are their Full Proof and Sweet Wheat. I've had their entire line, and these are my two favorites. The Sweet Wheat particularly is a good drink for those new to bourbon, if you can find it. Hancock's Reserve is a tough find in the ETL and RHF family, but it doesn't quite hold up to those. John J. Bowman is Buffalo Trace distilled one more time in Virginia, but it's a gem. Then there is Rebel Yell, which had a relatively low-end reputation until they released this 10-year version and changed a lot of minds. Four Roses is another very good line of bourbon. Their Single Barrel is a terrific value at ~$40. Better yet are their store pick barrel strength single barrel offerings, of which there are ten different recipes. I have had three of them, the OESV, the OESF, and the OBSQ. The OESV was my favorite (and also isn't pictured because I recently finished it), but all are very, very good. I highly recommend picking those up. The crown jewel, though, perhaps of my entire collection, is the Al Young 50th Anniversary. It is a rare bottle, as only 10,000 were made and it's a one-off that won't be made again as a bourbon legend's legacy bottling. It is also one I got for very cheap relative to its ever-ballooning value. Most importantly, it's truly delicious and among the best bourbons I've ever had. There are some bottles that aren't worth the hype, but this is not one of them. It's a special bottle to me, in every respect.

Old Forester 1920 is another bourbon milestone for me. If Eagle Rare was the "man, I need to get into bourbon more" moment, Old Forester 1920 was the "yep, I'm gonna get really serious about bourbon" moment. There will come a day in the not-too distant future when this isn't on shelves anymore. It's too good, and too reasonably priced. In blind tastings, this always finishes high up, even if you drop it among bourbons that cost two and three times what it does. I've got half a mind to start hoarding it just for my own use. I've had their whole line at this point, and the Signature is a pretty good buy at its price point, but the 1920 is the standout. Well, maybe. I just picked up the 2017 Old Forester Birthday Bourbon, and it's pretty special. The 2016 Birthday Bourbon was a bit earthy in ways I actually kind of liked, but the '17 is more of a traditional, kickass bourbon. It's really good, and I'm happy I picked it up, but it didn't come cheap. Value-wise, I don't know that it's worth the three bottles of 1920 I could have gotten for roughly the same price, but it's quality stuff, and I feel like I've underpaid for the 1920 enough to justify opening the wallet more than I'd like for the Birthday Bourbon.

Irish Whiskey: Redbreast 12 is a winner, as is the Redbreast Lustau. Jameson Black Barrel still holds up remarkably well among higher-priced Irish whiskeys, even above their Cooper's Croze for me. I'm not too crazy about the Jameson Caskmates, but it's fine, as is most of their line. Yellowspot is solid as well, and Tullamore D.E.W. has its place, although I don't really care for their cider cask expression much. Redbreast, though. Definitely give that a try. I've had the 12, 15, and 21, but the 12 is the one I've stuck with. The Lustau Edition is a very interesting drink as well. I tend to like sherry cask expressions, so I'd recommend that as one to try, with the 12 being a terrific example of a more traditional Irish whiskey.

Japanese Whiskey: I really enjoy this as somewhat of a middle ground between bourbon and scotch. I haven't been to Japan, but Japanese whiskey seems to befit Japanese culture in neat ways. Most of it tastes as crisp, clean, and all-around meticulously crafted as you'd expect. There's a subtlety to it that really comes across with interesting floral, grassy notes in the taste. My favorite that's readily available is the Suntory Hakushu. It's just a drink where you know you're tasting something that a lot of craft went into. Ohishi Sherry Cask is another different, but great offering. Also of note is the Nikka Taketsuru, which is a little bolder, but quality in its own right. I had the fortune of doing a tasting of the ingredients that go into the Hibiki Harmony this week, which was very cool. Tasting the Mizunara oak in its purest form was fun, as was tasting the now-ridiculously rare Yamazaki Sherry. Even the lower-end offerings from Nikka and Suntory like the Coffey Grain and Toki, respectively, are still very good.

Scotch: I'm still fairly new to scotch, but I'm getting a better palate for it. I still struggle with overly peaty scotch, and it might be a thing like IPA beer that I just never really warm up to. That said, there is some damn good scotch out there. My favorite scotch line is Balvenie. The 12 Doublewood, the 15, and the Caribbean Cask are all very, very good. The Balvenie 21, though? Oh, man, that's a winner. IMO, it's better than the 25 or even the 30, which surprised me. Dalmore 12 is a terrific mid-range scotch, and it's a steal at ~$50. Some other favorites are the Aberlour 12, Jura Superstition, and Macallan 18. Again, though, I'm only recently getting into scotch, so I'm open to some suggestions here.

FAQs:

How do you drink your whiskey? It depends. When I'm trying something for the first time, I typically drink it neat for my first few sips to taste it in its purest form. Then I generally drop one ice cube in it to see if it opens up, as many whiskeys do. However, more delicate whiskeys like Japanese whiskeys, along with lower proof bourbons and scotches, can lose their best characteristics with even the slightest ice melt, so I'll abstain there and just stay neat in many cases. I virtually never drink them with coke at this point or mix them outside of old-fashioneds, although I will admit that a love of Crown & Coke in college was what started this whole journey.

How do you make your old-fashioned? It's an ever-evolving recipe, but here's my general strategy. I start with bitters. I'll splash a mixture of traditional and orange bitters in the bottom of the glass. (I don't have a real preference between Angostura or Peychaud's.) I muddle a pair of sugar cubes in the bitters mixture until I get a nice, syrup-y blend. Then it's whiskey time. I tend to favor ryes for my old-fashioneds, as their typical spiciness pairs well with the bitters for me. I add about three fingers, and then do a few more splashes of the traditional/orange bitters on top. Now, for the cherry on top (literally), it's Luxardo time. Accept no substitutions here. I tend to use a pair of cherries and a bit of the syrup as well. I mix everything well at this point, and then add an ice ball. I don't add water to my old-fashioned, as the melt of an ice ball does the trick better in my book. For the garnish, I will cut the rind off of an orange or lemon (the generally accepted thought there is lemon when using rye bourbon and orange when using regular bourbon, but I don't always hold to that), rim the glass with it, and drop it in. Voila.

Do glencairn glasses matter? For nosing, slightly. For drinking, no. If I'm doing a proper tasting, I'm fine using a glencairn just to (supposedly) aid in nosing a drink. I still don't even own one, as I find them a little pretentious in ways I don't really care to be. A highball is the way to go for most occasions, and to me, it's more befitting the spirit of the...um, spirit.

Where are the Pappys and BTACs (Buffalo Trace Antique Collection)? Allocated and overpriced. It's why I don't have many. Most of these bottles are commanding five, ten, even twenty times their retail prices these days, and while these are indeed some of the best bourbons in the world, I have a hard time shelling out that kind of dough for a markup, and it's near-impossible to acquire them otherwise. It's made a little easier by the fact that you virtually never see them on a shelf. I was ecstatic to land a George T. Stagg this year, but I generally prefer trying the really rare stuff at high-end bars when I can. Of the rare stuff I don't own, but have tried recently, the 2017 William Larue Weller is very good (far better than the '16), the 2016 Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye was the best rye I've had, the 2017 Thomas H. Handy is tasty (and preferable to the '17 Sazerac 18, IMO), and the 2016 Eagle Rare 17 was quality, but a '14 ER17 I had was truly stellar.

Have you bought a bottle you've regretted? Yes. I can generally try to find some qualities to enjoy in most higher-end whiskey, and I like trying new things. The only bottle I've bought that was a real bummer was the Barrell Batch No. 11. I bought it largely because it was the winner of the World Spirits Competition, so I figured it had to be at least decent. Nope. It was dry, bitter, and just unpleasant to drink. I was convinced I just got a bad bottle, so I tried it elsewhere later on. Still bad. I ended up letting my roommate mix it with coke, which isn't typically allowed in my presence. Very disappointing.

Can whiskey be overaged? Yes (in my opinion). 20+ year old bourbon is rarely enjoyable to me because American Oak really starts taking over the flavor profile at that point, whereas scotches, Irish whiskeys, et al. tend to age in wood that's less dominant, and thus age much better over time. As a drink, I will take a Pappy 15 over a 20 or 23 any day, especially when you start factoring in value.

What are your feelings on mixed cask expressions? Positive. I think it's neat that companies are working together to put barrels to more use and create some new tastes. I've really enjoyed a sherry cask-finished product with the Redbreast Lustau, Madeira cask in the Belle Meade Madeira, rum cask in the Balvenie Caribbean Cask, and lots of scotches now are using French Oak, Sherry, and American Oak in varying lengths to great success. There are some really cool, interesting drinks coming out of these experiments, and most of the ones I've had that made it to retail are quite good.

What are some good, relatively cheap, available bottles I should try if I want to get into whiskey? Bourbon: Eagle Rare, Four Roses Single Barrel, Old Forester 1920. Irish Whiskey: Jameson Black Barrel, Tullamore D.E.W. Japanese Whiskey: Suntory Toki, Nikka Coffey Grain.Scotch: Balvenie 12, Dalmore 12, Aberlour 12.

Is this an expensive hobby? Yes. Dangerously so. My collection here isn't all that large, but is well into the thousands in terms of what I've actually spent and even moreso in terms of actual value of these bottles. It's definitely in the realm of luxury spending, and unless you just have Scrooge McDuck piles of cash, you have to budget and turn down bottles you might want from time to time.

Can I come over and drink? Sure, why not? If y'all find yourself in the Austin, TX area, hit me up and maybe we can work something out. I'm always up for a drink, and wouldn't mind meeting some of you duders, so let me know. One of the best parts of having a collection like this is sharing it and watching someone have their whiskey epiphany where they start really enjoying it.

What do you think of Booker's bourbon? Someone gave me a bottle of the 2015-01 batch a couple of years ago that I have yet to open.

It's fine, if a bit harsh. It could use a little more age and/or a little lower proof, IMO. It's not something I'd recommend to someone who isn't a bourbon drinker. It's the sort I'd drop some ice cubes in, and I'd tell anyone who doesn't drink much bourbon to add water to. Still, you could do a lot worse than Booker's.

My go to is Rowan's Creek, it is one of the best bottles of sub-$50 bourbon. I also really enjoy Four Roses Single Barrel (and even Small Batch) I just don't know if I could ever bring myself to spend more than $60-70 on a bottle of whiskey that is by its nature finite, but it was cool to read about your collection.

I'm guessing bottle aging doesn't really add much to a whiskey. It's all about the barrel.

I like Rowan's Creek. There's actually a Noah's Mill pictured there that I forgot to mention. Both are good.

@notnert427: There is a sweetness to Rowan's Creek that I really enjoy. Any recommendations for something similar?

Most of the other Willett stuff is in that profile and is going to be your best bet for something similar. Noah's Mill, Old Bardstown BIB, Johnny Drum, Willett Pot Still, etc.

Delicious bourbon, brownest of the brown liquors... As much as I do enjoy whiskey in pretty much all varieties, I tend to gravitate towards scotch (having friends that collect scotch helps). Might have to give one of these bottles of bourbon a try if they're available up here in Canada.

I don't see any Evan Williams on those shelves. Somebody needs to step their game up.

I'm not sure if it's easily available outside of Michigan, but Traverse City Whiskey Company has become my go to Bourbon over the past couple of years. It's reasonably priced, about $35 a bottle, and has a little more bite to it than Four Roses, Bulleit and the other brands in its price range.

I'm just popping in to say to anyone that likes them some good whiskey, spend the money on an oz of Yamazaki the next time you get a chance. It's bar-none the best whiskey I've had in my life. Ohishi is right there as a close second. I was floored when I tasted them.

Its a lonely world being a whisky enthusiast, everyone reacts with horror when they see you sip and enjoy a good spirit. I'm quite partial to Ardbeg 10, Bookers, and Caol Ila, with my all time favorite being Talisker. I find it harder to tell the different notes between bourbons than I do with scotch, but there isn't a bourbon I can't drink. I was overseas for a good while and Wasgau sold "PennyPacker Bourbon" which i could find no information on but it was cheap and drinkable.

I don’t drink nearly enough to consider myself an enthusiast, or super knowledgable, but I’ll lurk here for my love of whiskey.

I like a red or white wine (more red as I age) and the right rum is a treat, but a good whiskey is something special.

I have a bottle of Balvenie 12 that I'll pull out for special occasions, and usually have a bottle of Tullamore or Jamesons around for more regular drinking. Getting into a wider variety of whiskies has been slow going as I usually don't like to buy something I haven't tried before, and most bars around here don't seem to have that wide of a selection.

@notnert427: I'll second that Balvenie Caribbean Cask suggestion. Made me consider spending some time getting into rum. I'll also suggest Yellow Spot Irish whiskey which (to steal directly from their marketing copy) is "matured in three types of cask: American Bourbon cask, Spanish Sherry butts and Spanish Malaga casks."

@notnert427: Your post was a good read! I have taken up trying different whiskeys as well in the past two years or so though I have gravitated towards scotch. If you're looking for a good scotch suggestion for a decent price point I recommend the Dewar's 18 year old blended bottle of scotch. I picked a bottle up for around $60 recently. Very smooth with an almost honeyed aftertaste. Don't get the Dewar's white label stuff, it's way worse.

Have you tried Basil Hayden or Buffalo Trace bourbons? Those are two of my favorite I've come across but admittedly I am no bourbon connoisseur.

@gtb08 I agree that I can taste the different notes in a scotch easier than I can a bourbon but I do like both. Just tried Ardbeg 10 recently and it is super peaty but pretty enjoyable with a meal.

I don't have much to add right at the moment, but I want to post in here now so that I don't forget to throw in something a bit more in-depth when I have time!

I blame whiskey for not being able to currently appreciate or contribute to this discussion. See you tomorrow!

Excellent post, it was a lot of fun reading your thoughts on various whiskeys. As a bartender for nearly seven years now, I've come across my fair share of whiskies, though as a bartender in Nebraska I've come to learn just how limited our options are compared to private collectors purchasing over the internet or bars in larger cities. Also as a bartender and a considerable drinker in my late 20s, I must confess that I don't often procure "the good stuff" for personal use and most of my experience with the finer whiskeys comes from behind the bar R&D. Whiskey is my favorite of the spirits but I'm also finding myself greatly souring on whiskey as a shot; tequila has always secretly been the easiest shot for me, but whiskey was a close second until about a year ago. I've mostly moved on to Amaro, mainly Fernet Branca or Averna Siciliano, when it comes to after work three-two-one cheers consumption with coworkers.

At the current bar I work at, I operate under two different standards, depending on if it's a ticket from a table or an order from the bar. When it comes to table orders, I make very standard standards; we'd prefer to use Rittenhouse Rye but it's a product that fluctuates in and out of our state so we usually use Dickel Rye. The thought process behind Dickel Rye is it's slightly cheaper at the wholesale level than Bulleit Rye, which probably has the most brand awareness here among the ryes these days, but it's made from the same MGP juice, same as damn near every Rye the general public gives a damn about. It may have its differences, but in a pinch Dickel will be Templeton will be Bulleit will be Angel's Envy and so on. The bottle is also a liter, so in purely business terms it's more for less and that's big bucks.

Speaking of MGP, I still remember the day I found out High West's Double Rye was a blend of seperately aged MGP product from that Daily Beast article four or five years ago; for some, maybe it ruins the magic, but for me it opened my eyes to just how important distilleries and their distillers are to the process of whiskey. I don't make many bones about the Double Rye being my favorite bottle from the high end of the low tier of whiskey pricing; that it's born from the DNA of so many ryes before it only sweetens the pot, in my opinion.

But when it comes to an order from the bar, I reach for J. Rieger's Kansas City Whiskey. It's not an especially remarkable whiskey on its own merits, though it is a weird one. An almost equal split of Straight Bourbon, Light Corn and High Rye mashes and aged for the standard four or more, not only does it have that going on but it nods to the Rieger Co.'s roots in the 1800s and the traditions of swindling saloon owners of the Western Territories in general by adding up to 2.5% of 15-year Oloroso Sherry to every bottle. Neat or on the rocks, it's an off-kilter mix of spices and sweetness that isn't exactly unappealing but certainly doesn't make it an obvious go-to. But there's something about it's blend of mashes, and it's infusion of sherry...

Not only does this give it a specifically appealing color - I confess, it's one of my favorite bottlings as well, both for its shape and for its label, which features a pair of surprises mostly only bartenders will come across - but it gives it a specifically adaptable palette. Equally useful in classic Rye drinks such as Manhattans, Sazeracs, Old Fashioneds (I want to get to this a bit later) and Bourbon drinks such as the classic Whiskey Sour, Mint Julep and Scofflaw. Created by one of the 2000s several celebrity bartenders, Ryan Maybee, its a whiskey that stands out behind the bar for being a sort of jack of all trades for just about any off-menu whiskey cocktail a guest might call for, and you can charge $2 more for it than you would Evan Williams (our well bourbon) or Dickel (again, our primary well Rye unless Rittenhouse is in town).

But back to the Old Fashioned; I feel like you're so close! I also feel like we're all so far...what I wouldn't give to go to whatever the best bar in Kentucky was in the late 1800s and see just what the hell customers were getting from their bartenders when they ordered a damn drink the old fashioned way. When I first learned to make the drink, I learned to make as I presume most do, or would've in the place I was in 2010; two cubes of sugar, three dashes of Angostura directly applied to the sugar, a Luxardo cherry and an orange peel (if I'd learned in, say, 2005, I assume it'd have been a whole slice) mashed to hell in a glass with whiskey added as a sort of last resort afterward. After the greater part of a decade making this drink, I understand the aesthetic appeal; it's a simple drink with a specific taste, but we're human after all and it's fun to take a hammer to things.

I would just like to argue, and I think behind bars across the country this is becoming irreversibly the case, that this is not a method that leads to the most appealing expression of the drink. (God forbid you build yours like Don Draper and his ad-men cohorts; for a generation that accepted the Three Martini Lunch as a fact of life, they sure did drink the good stuff like wimps!) Until about two weeks ago, I was convinced the cherry was essential, for starters; turns out that's a modern invention of the bourgeoise. The Washington Post outright claimed the entire process of muddling a fool's errand and an entirely different drink in 2014; in his seminal book The Craft of the Cocktail, Dale DeGroff quipped, "those other guys just want some sweetened whiskey, not an old fashioned," in favor of the orange slice and the cherry. Meanwhile, the most infamous never-bartended bar nerd, Martin Doudoroff, argues many variations of this great quote, "you do not mash up fruit of any kind in an Old Fashioned. To do so implies a perverted nastiness of mind."

I fall somewhere in the middle; where I currently work, we use a specific canning of cherries from Lazzaroni; Italian black cherries soaked in a syrup sourced from their own Amaretto liqueur. So, due to their expense, our current bar manager prefers I not use them for Old Fashioneds at all and subscribes to Doudoroff's idea that it's a cardinal sin generally. So too have I grown to appreciate the dishonesty in DeGroff's favored method; I'd never order a whiskey drink because I intended to taste everything but the juice itself. But I think the cherry has its place, particularly those cherries, particular with that Rieger's whiskey I mentioned earlier. So, after three paragraphs of preamble, my personal Old Fashioned recipe, with a caveat:

2 oz J. Rieger's Kansas City Whiskey

.25 oz demerara syrup (demerara sugar added to lightly boiling water at a 2:1 by weight ratio) slowly poured circularly over the whiskey

2 dash Angostura Aromatic bitters, 1 dash Regan's No. 6 Orange Bitters

(Edit: forgot the caveat; I'll swap either one dash of the Ango or the single dash of the Orange for Fee Bros. Black Walnut or Bittermens Xocolatl Mole depending on the time of day and my general mood once the weather dips below 30 degrees or so)

Stirred and poured over fresh ice, garnished with an orange peel expression and the aforementioned cherry

For me, the color is everything, as is the unique flavor arrangement all these ingredients work toward. It also makes the drink work as more of a time investment; the whiskey slowly extracts the rest of the orange peel's essence while the amaretto juice slowly works its way away from the cherry and towards the rest of the drink. To me, it's an Old Fashioned that appreciates every facet of the drink's history without accepting any interpretation of it as the holy text. The whiskey is technically bourbon but plays like a rye, the syrup serves to enhance the color of the drink while complimenting the darker sweets whiskey is so noted for and refusing to crystalize along the glass and serve no true function, the Angostura is there for tradition and the Regan's to nod at all the citrus this cocktail contained for so many drinkers of the baby boomer era, and the cherry because that's how I learned to make the damn drink, history nerds be damned.

I like the Evan Williams single barrel and BIB. Both have been on the shelf at times, FWIW. I've never seen Traverse City down here, but if I do, I'll give it a shot.

Yamazaki is indeed great (especially the 18). Value-wise, Ohishi has it beat, though. Try the Suntory Hakushu or Nikka Taketsuru if you haven't. Both are terrific. Japanese whisky is so good that it has put a Japan trip on my bucket list.

An Islay man, I see. I typically go Lagavulin there, but I've been surprised by the Bruichladdich lately as well.

I'm a red wine man on occasion. Typically Spanish Tempranillos and Italian Montepulciano, Sangiovese, or if I'm feeling fancy, Nebbiolo. I've gotten a bit away from wine, though, as $60-$100 for a bottle that's gone in a night is a tough sell when I can get a damn fine whiskey that I'll sip on for months for that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Balvenie Doublewood. It's a steal, and it's the one that got me into scotch. Everything Balvenie is some degree of great, so if you won't to venture deeper in their line, you won't be disappointed. The 14 Caribbean Cask, 15 Sherry, and 21 are true standouts. The Jameson Black Barrel is still my everyday Irish whiskey (just killed a bottle days before taking this picture). It's a ~12-year whiskey for $30, which is kind of ridiculous. Also, try the Redbreast 12 sometime if you see it. And if you like that, the Lustau.

The Balvenie Caribbean Cask is arguably cheaper than it should be. Very, very good. If you do get into rum, may I suggest Foursquare. I've had their Zin and Port cask offerings, and both are amazing. I like Yellow Spot; I just think it's priced a bit high for what it is (at least here). It's a $90 bottle that should be a $60 bottle. I don't find it appreciably better than Redbreast, if at all, so I have a hard time shelling out more for it. Still, it is a very good drink.

I haven't given Dewar's much of a chance. Again, I'm still a bit new to scotch, but I'll give it a try next time I see it.

I've grown to somewhat dislike the regular Basil Hayden's over the years (I got away from that overly earthy profile), but the Dark Rye is good. Regular Buffalo Trace is still great, and one of the better deals in bourbon. I use it for some aging experiments with staves and my barrel, several of which have turned out awesome. I could not recommend the John J. Bowman Single Barrel more for anyone who likes the regular Buffalo Trace. It is quite literally Buffalo Trace distilled again, and the results are stellar. For $40, it's hard to beat.

Hey rorie! Would love to hear your thoughts some time on what you've had and liked or didn't like. Also, if GB business ever sends y'all down here to Austin, drinks are on me. I'm going to make a PAX South at some point, and the same offer applies.

Haha, I look forward to hearing what did the damage last night.

Good whiskey definitely doesn't really translate to shot form, and arguably shouldn't be consumed that way. Rittenhouse Rye is really good, and Bulleit Rye is a great value as well. I have made many, many old fashioneds with those two. I'm the rare guy who actually may be able to tell the difference between Dickel and Bulleit, but yeah, there's not that much variance there, especially to the general public.

I'm glad you brought up MGP. I was a bit elitist on the stuff for a while via your same logic. The Whistlepig overhype/overprice thing of late certainly didn't help, as I'm still convinced I can toss a Bulleit Rye in a blind tasting among two of the Boss Hogs and its fanboys won't even know the difference. What changed my mind on MGP, though, was the Smooth Ambler Old Scout Single Barrel. That is a damn good bourbon. High West, as you mentioned, is also doing great things with MGP stock. I've liked several variants of their MWND.

I haven't seen J. Reiger's down here, but I'll keep an eye out. I do generally love sherry, so it has my interest. I like the amaretto facet of your old fashioned with those cherries. I'll look for those as well. There's a place by me that burns a little amaretto in the orange peel on one of their cocktails, and that turns out pretty awesome. I'm usually too lazy to do that on my own, but I may well start incorporating either that or your cherries, which I like the sound of.

I've similarly heard a lot of anti-cherry chatter of late re: old fashioneds, and I don't subscribe to it at all. IMO, it's almost a necessary garnish if nothing else, and enjoying the booze cherry at the bottom of a properly made old fashioned is one of life's great pleasures. A good old fashioned to me taste-wise should be a little sweet, a little tangy, and still allow the whiskey itself to do the heavy lifting, especially if the rye spice can still come through to balance everything out.

There are a few ways of getting there, and it sounds like you're doing a damn fine job. Now I just really want an old fashioned.

Any advice for someone trying to get into Whiskey drinking? I've experimented with a few here and there. My last effort was to get into wheat based whiskeys since i prefer wheat based beers. I've tried Larceny Bourbon which is supposed to have wheat as a part of the secondary grain but i'd like to try a whiskey in the 80% wheat range.

I got these Yakuza 6 Whiskey Glasses never being a real whiskey drinker this thread might get me into it.

Do it!

Wheated bourbons aren't that unique in taste (at least in comparison to how much hefeweizens differ from other beers). I wouldn't necessarily limit yourself to wheaters, but Larceny is a decent one. On the cheaper/more available end, Weller Special Reserve and Maker's Mark (especially the 46) are solid wheaters. If you want to step it up from there, Weller 12, Old Weller Antique, and 1792 Sweet Wheat are all pretty great. Even further up, you can get into your Van Winkles and the like.

There are some very, very good wheated bourbons (especially on the high end), but I'd make sure that's even the type of bourbon for you before diving too deep down that rabbit hole. Your best bet would probably be to go to a bar and just try some small pours of a few things to see what you like. Most bars will have Maker's Mark, so give that a try as an example of a wheated bourbon's sweetness. Four Roses uses a higher rye content than most bourbon, so any of their stuff makes for a pretty decent snapshot of the rye spiciness (or you can just try a straight up rye like Bulleit Rye). Buffalo Trace is a lower rye bourbon to give you an idea of a "standard" bourbon, so you could do all three of those for pretty cheap and get a better idea of what you're into and go from there.

That sounds like a good excuse to try some Japanese whisky! Try the Suntory Toki as a good introduction; it's reasonably priced and very drinkable.

The only high profile wheat whiskey I'm aware of is Bernheim, which as a Heaven Hill product shouldn't be too hard to turn up wherever you are. Larceny is also a Heaven Hill product and in fact comes from the same distillery as Bernheim, so if you liked the implications of wheat in Larceny, know the men that make it have been working with wheat far more than near any distillers with skin in the game. Weller is still the best of the wheated (not wheat) whiskies around, particularly the 90 proof and the 12 year, but as the OP noted once the word got out about Weller's genetic similarities to Pappy the market got insanely competitive for that line of products, even at bars and retail.

It should be noted that almost every whiskey you come across that mentions wheat will be "wheated", not Wheat Whiskey. A wheated, or wheater, whiskey is somewhat akin to making a Boulevardier with Lucano rather than Campari; same basic product with one different ingredient. Bernheim is a wheat whiskey, Larceny is wheated. Straight wheat whiskey is still an incredibly niche market.

If you want to keep experimenting with different styles, however, look into whether Koval Distillery are sold in your area. Produced in Chicago, Koval are a line of organic whiskies (and liqueurs) totally unafraid of playing without the rulebook. About two summers ago I had a brief flirtation with the Oat and really enjoyed it, but it can be a hard bottle to come across. Given its obscurity, the Millet is even harder to find, but it's also quite a singular whiskey and maybe just the thing for somebody looking for whiskies that are already relatively niche. But as millet itself is a common gluten-free substitute for wheat in breadmaking, it's definitely worth a shot and adds a fun spin on an otherwise fairly traditional bourbon profile.

@notnert427: Thanks i'l check it out.

This thread is relevant to my interests! I drank Macallan for the first time over the winter (12 year) and I enjoyed it a lot, I'm sure that 18 year will be delicious.

I drink whiskey neat out of habit but I haven't experimented too much and should probably try some different ways of imbibing.

@nodima: @notnert427: Thanks for the advice, i'll have to check that out sometime.

Man I am jealous. Best stuff I've ever had was one of the Cask Mates from Jameson. It's inexpensive and I enjoyed it neat as well as with a bit of coke. Nothing too fancy. I need to remedy that. I was thinking of trying some good Japanese whiskey with a bottle as a self congratulating post basic training gift so I may use you as a reference for that purchase. Nit really sure why the Japanese stuff is so interesting to me but I've always meant to try it.

Ok so I'm nowhere near down the rabbit hole like most of you but I've just recently started to buy Jack Daniels, original and honey varieties, and have been enjoying them neat. Where should I go from here if I just want to try something else? I once had a bottle of Jim Bean but found it a little harsh, this was years ago though before I found this seemingly newfound appreciation. I'm in the UK if that matters.

It's quite good. Opt for the Nikka Taketsuru, Suntory Hakushu, or Ohishi Sherry to properly celebrate that occasion, and thank you for your service! None of those will really break the bank, and all are terrific.

Pick up a bottle of Blanton's Gold. We don't get it in the States, and it's a crime because it's a better drink than about 90% of what's out there. It is not harsh at all, but still has a good amount of flavor and character.

@notnert427: I bought a Bookers for my dads birthday a year ago and boy that was like the moonshine of whiskey. Extremely rough going down the first few sips, and I think the only reason I thought it go smoother was because how quickly it was getting me inebriated.

That's a pretty accurate description (although I've had some great, non-rough, non-legal moonshine). It's tough to find a more astringent bourbon than Booker's. Compared with some far better bourbons of similarly high proof (George T. Stagg, E.H. Taylor Barrel Proof, Four Roses Barrel Strength, et al), Booker's really gets exposed, IMO. What I'm getting at is that high proof doesn't necessarily equate to a harsh drink, but with Booker's, that is indeed the case. There are times I appreciate a little bit of burn, but the real craft is in making a high-proof bourbon that goes down easy.

@notnert427: Definitely although in my experience the more expensive Bourbons I've tried on birthdays and special occasions were almost always higher proof than necessary and not especially pleasant to drink. These days my go to whiskey is Woodford Reserve, which I find very smooth and rich in flavor, without any of that raw alcohol aftertaste. There is nothing worse than buying an expensive bourbon that ends up tasting like Johnny Walker Red..

A bought a bottle of Bushmills 1608, the 400th anniversary edition thing. That is still one of the best whiskeys, let alone Irish variants that I have ever had. It makes me sad that it isn't in their normal lineup. The Red Crown Royal XR was amazing as well.

Woodford is solid. I went through a long Woodford phase. If you ever see Elmer T. Lee on a menu somewhere, give that a try. The profile is similar.

Thanks I'll try to look out for it in my local shops.

@notnert427: I thought this was going to be about Whiskey Media when I clicked on it.

I had some Wild Turkey Rare Breed signed by the distiller the other day, too potent for me, but good stuff. I can't find it at my local booze places sadly.

Eddie Russell, I'm assuming? I've met him. Nice guy. They do a good job representing their brand. Russell's Reserve is still the best thing I've had that they make. I've heard good things about the Master's Keep Decades, though, so I need to give that a try.

I used to hate whisky when I was younger but I found a liking for it in my 30s somehow. I tend to prefer ones that are smoky but certainly not limited to that. The first one I really clicked with was Laphroaig's 10 year old, it has become the one I make sure to have at hand for whenever I'm in the mood for some whisky. This past weekend I was sipping on Highland Park's 12 year old which I quite enjoyed, figured it's 'Viking Honour' theme would go well with God of War, and it did. Something I noticed when after a long session of playing I had finished almost half the bottle by accident. Some other notables ones I've enjoyed when I have tried them would be Spirit of Hven Tycho's Star, Yamazaki 12 yo, Lagavulin 16 yo and Ardberg 10 yo. I had a whisky evening at my father's place (he's a big whisky guy), but I don't actually recall all the ones I tried that time except for Hven, which was a gift from me from a while back.

The most amusing bottle of whisky I own though is a Thai whisky called Hong Thong. It smells like bad cologne and tastes like drinking antifreeze. My dad got me the bottle while in Thailand mostly as a joke and I have yet to find a friend willing to give it a try for my amusement.

Wow that is a collection for sure.

@notnert427: Be sure to give Russel's Reserve Single Barrel a chance if you haven't yet. My dad treated me to some of that on my wedding day and I more or less always keep a bottle of it stocked in my shelves now. So tasty and not outrageously expensive either.

Yeah, I should have clarified. The Single Barrel Russell's Reserve is what I was referring to. It is indeed very good. The 10 year is fine, and the rye is just okay, IMO.

Also, I tried the Longbranch this weekend, and it was mediocre at best. I bought a bottle of the Isaac Bowman Port Finish for myself, though, since I like the John J. Bowman so much, and that Isaac Bowman Port was pretty great. I fully recommend both it and the John J. Bowman.

If you're ever in Ireland the Jameson whisky tour is the best distillery/brewery tour I've ever been on. As a side note, the Guinness tour is a lame waste of time.

@brendan: Did you go to Teeling? I was actually pleasantly surprised by some of their stuff!

I'll definitely do an Ireland/Scotland trip at some point. I have some extended family in Galway. I also need to do the bourbon trail in Kentucky. Those are probably my next two vacations. Maybe I enjoy booze too much...

I approve of this collection. Redbreast is really nice, had a couple snifters of it at wedding recently. I currently have a staggering collection of 1 bottle of scotch at moment, but I would recommend it, Glenfiddich Reserve Cask.

I have done work in most of the Scottish Distilleries over the years. If you need some advice on the best ones to go to I can point you in the right direction.

@notnert427: thanks for your reply and sorry I didn't reply sooner but that's way too big a jump for me. That stuff is like 60 quid a bottle. As opposed to 20. I couldn't spend 60 quid on alcohol my mrs would kill me!