Who Won the Biden vs Ryan US Vice Presidential Debate?

@AlexW00d said:

Oh American politics.

Look out, you're envy's showing.

@Jams said:

@AlexW00d said:

Oh American politics.

Look out, you're envy's showing.

So's your education standards.

@AlexW00d said:

@Jams said:

@AlexW00d said:

Oh American politics.

Look out, you're envy's showing.

So's your education standards.

come on man most of us don't like it either don't be like that

@Animasta said:

@AlexW00d said:

@Jams said:

@AlexW00d said:

Oh American politics.

Look out, you're envy's showing.

So's your education standards.

come on man most of us don't like it either don't be like that

?Mean; wat' due u

So to answer the question, I guess it comes down to which side you were already on. If you're liberal, you thought Biden won. If you're conservative, you thought Ryan won.

From my perspective, Ryan was boring and Biden was a total dick. And unlike the rest of you, I'll take the boring guy.

@Animasta said:

@AlexW00d said:

@Jams said:

@AlexW00d said:

Oh American politics.

Look out, you're envy's showing.

So's your education standards.

come on man most of us don't like it either don't be like that

Hey I was only joking initially anyway.

The only question that matters is this: Did Biden fight a bear on national TV last night? if the answer is anything other than "yes" then who the fuck cares?

@golguin said:

I don't know what the debate looks like to someone who doesn't pay attention to politics and news on a daily basis, but as someone who is aware of the candidates positions and is aware of past comments concerning said positions the debate win easily went to Biden. He got the message to shut down false claims made by Ryan and he delivered.

That's the worst thing, people not following the campaign don't realize quite how deceptive and outright manipulative Romney and Ryan have been in these debates. I've gotten whiplash with how much they've flipped to moderate in just this last week; I haven't forgotten the last two years of their campaign. It was very refreshing to finally see someone call them out on it on a public stage (as well as their tax plans with absolutely no details or math given). If anything, Biden was quite justified to laugh at almost everything Ryan said.

If we're going to decide to vote based on their attitude and composure, then there's something seriously wrong with politics (what else is new!).

@golguin said:

I don't know what the debate looks like to someone who doesn't pay attention to politics and news on a daily basis, but as someone who is aware of the candidates positions and is aware of past comments concerning said positions the debate win easily went to Biden. He got the message to shut down false claims made by Ryan and he delivered.

That's the worst thing, people not following the campaign don't realize quite how deceptive and outright manipulative Romney and Ryan have been in these debates. I've gotten whiplash with how much they've flipped to moderate in just this last week; I haven't forgotten the last two years of their campaign. It was very refreshing to finally see someone call them out on it on a public stage (as well as their tax plans with absolutely no details or math given). If anything, Biden was quite justified to laugh at almost everything Ryan said.

If we're going to decide to vote based on their attitude and composure, then there's something seriously wrong with politics (what else is new!).

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Draxyle

@golguin said:

I don't know what the debate looks like to someone who doesn't pay attention to politics and news on a daily basis, but as someone who is aware of the candidates positions and is aware of past comments concerning said positions the debate win easily went to Biden. He got the message to shut down false claims made by Ryan and he delivered.

That's the worst thing, people not following the campaign don't realize quite how deceptive and outright manipulative Romney and Ryan have been in these debates. I've gotten whiplash with how much they've flipped to moderate in just this last week; I haven't forgotten the last two years of their campaign. It was very refreshing to finally see someone call them out on it on a public stage (as well as their tax plans with absolutely no details or math given). If anything, Biden was quite justified to laugh at almost everything Ryan said.

If we're going to decide to vote based on their attitude and composure, then there's something seriously wrong with politics (what else is new!).

Seriously. I love that it's now considered rude to call out another candidates refusal to give details on anything during a debate. Sorry, but if the Romney campaign has this magical mystery box filled with instant solutions to all the worlds problems, I want to know what's inside before I check his box on the ballot.

If you know some economic history and listen to what their saying it's actually not that hard to figure out what their plan is. Sure it would be nice to hear some better details, but it's sorta hard to describe as it's not a simple "spend less money here, tax this more" plan. Basically what they're talking about is decreasing taxes to create more jobs, which in turn will increase tax-income. I actually believe there is something to it, and they are actually much less vague than the Democrats when it comes to describing a plan for how to fix the debt problem (which they haven't really adressed at all).

Having that said, as I said in the other thread, both parties are struggling because they refuse to steer away from their strong suit. Republicans keep hammering on the debt crisis and Democrats keep hammering on the social issues. If one of the parties would just show at least some consideration for both issues at the same time, that would show some true leadership and willingness to compromise.

@Ares42 said:

If you know some economoic history and listen to what their saying it's actually not that hard to figure out what their plan is. Sure it would be nice to hear some better details, but it's sorta hard to describe as it's not a simple "spend less money here, tax this more" plan. Basically what they're talking about is decreasing taxes to create more jobs, which in turn will increase tax-income. I actually believe there is something to it, and they are actually much less vague than the Democrats when it comes to describing a plan for how to fix the debt problem (which they haven't really adressed at all).

Having that said, as I said in the other thread, both parties are struggling because they refuse to steer away from their strong suit. Republicans keep hammering on the debt crisis and Democrats keep hammering on the social issues. If one of the parties would just show at least some consideration for both issues at the same time, that would show some true leadership and willingness to compromise.

Pretty much this.

The Daily Show

@TruthTellah said:

Off Topic:

I think Biden laughing at serious topics should become a meme.

It kind of aleady is. Biden says a LOT of dumb stuff quite often.

He was on fire last night though, Biden won by a mile. The fact that he kept forcing Ryan to explain how he's planning on doing things and couldn't was telling. Ryan's plans to keep american troops in the middle east for even longer went over like a lead balloon as well.

c. we all lose

I talked more gooder den u.

Huh, I'm English and watching it I thought Paul Ryan won it. Why do you guys all think Biden outdid him?

@Ares42 said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Draxyle

@golguin said:

I don't know what the debate looks like to someone who doesn't pay attention to politics and news on a daily basis, but as someone who is aware of the candidates positions and is aware of past comments concerning said positions the debate win easily went to Biden. He got the message to shut down false claims made by Ryan and he delivered.

That's the worst thing, people not following the campaign don't realize quite how deceptive and outright manipulative Romney and Ryan have been in these debates. I've gotten whiplash with how much they've flipped to moderate in just this last week; I haven't forgotten the last two years of their campaign. It was very refreshing to finally see someone call them out on it on a public stage (as well as their tax plans with absolutely no details or math given). If anything, Biden was quite justified to laugh at almost everything Ryan said.

If we're going to decide to vote based on their attitude and composure, then there's something seriously wrong with politics (what else is new!).

Seriously. I love that it's now considered rude to call out another candidates refusal to give details on anything during a debate. Sorry, but if the Romney campaign has this magical mystery box filled with instant solutions to all the worlds problems, I want to know what's inside before I check his box on the ballot.

If you know some economic history and listen to what their saying it's actually not that hard to figure out what their plan is. Sure it would be nice to hear some better details, but it's sorta hard to describe as it's not a simple "spend less money here, tax this more" plan. Basically what they're talking about is decreasing taxes to create more jobs, which in turn will increase tax-income. I actually believe there is something to it, and they are actually much less vague than the Democrats when it comes to describing a plan for how to fix the debt problem (which they haven't really adressed at all).

Having that said, as I said in the other thread, both parties are struggling because they refuse to steer away from their strong suit. Republicans keep hammering on the debt crisis and Democrats keep hammering on the social issues. If one of the parties would just show at least some consideration for both issues at the same time, that would show some true leadership and willingness to compromise.

The plan to decrease taxes to create more jobs was done with the Bush tax cuts and it clearly did not work. That is why it's wrong and that's why Biden called out Ryan on that. You can believe all you like that it will work or you can look at the job growth during those years for your answer.

So if the money to pay for the tax cuts wont come from these imaginary jobs then the only way to pay for these tax cuts (20% cut leading to $5 trillion in debt over a decade) is to cut spending and close loopholes. The problem with that is that you CAN NOT make up the difference without cutting programs and closing loopholes that will hurt the middle class. The mod Raddatz pressed Ryan for specifics of his plan because the math DID NOT ADD UP. She kept asking for specifics and he refused to give them which lead to Republicans crying foul because she pressed him for answers.

If you claim to know their plan (I have not seen anyone in the media who does) then perhaps you can tell us the loopholes and programs that will be dealt with to pay for these cuts.

Neither. No official scores are given to either opponent, therefore any judgement of victory is wholly subjective.

@golguin: Ofc I (like everyone else) don't know any details. I'm not prosyletizing their plan or anything. I'm just saying if you listen to what they're saying, that's their plan. I don't know if it's viable or not, but clearly they have made a plan based on the idea of increasing tax revenue by dropping unemployment.

"So if the money to pay for the tax cuts wont come from these imaginary jobs then the only way to pay for these tax cuts" they're basically saying "but what if it did?", and that's why they're having a hard time selling their plan. If they actually went out with their projected numbers they would just get torn apart. They have to sell the idea (which actually has some merit to it), as the details just won't match up, at least not to most peoples standard.

Ofc, you can just refuse to believe that tax has any effect on the economy and job-growth, but that's not really gonna solve anything, will it ?

Albania.

@laserbolts said:

F) Murica.

G) 'Murca

@Ares42 said:

@golguin: Ofc I (like everyone else) don't know any details. I'm not prosyletizing their plan or anything. I'm just saying if you listen to what they're saying, that's their plan. I don't know if it's viable or not, but clearly they have made a plan based on the idea of increasing tax revenue by dropping unemployment.

"So if the money to pay for the tax cuts wont come from these imaginary jobs then the only way to pay for these tax cuts" they're basically saying "but what if it did?", and that's why they're having a hard time selling their plan. If they actually went out with their projected numbers they would just get torn apart. They have to sell the idea (which actually has some merit to it), as the details just won't match up, at least not to most peoples standard.

Ofc, you can just refuse to believe that tax has any effect on the economy and job-growth, but that's not really gonna solve anything, will it ?

The viability of the plan is the problem. What if we could spend all we wanted and claimed the money would come from a source that doesn't exist? What if you vote for a candidate that says this and then get hit with a bait and switch when it becomes apparent that the only way to pay for this increase is to go after people that desperately need this money? That is where the problem lies with the plan. If their tax policy was a great as they claim it is then we wouldn't be jumping through hoops trying to get them to explain how they are going to come up with the money. Don't you see that as a problem?

I never said that cutting taxes has no effect on the economy and job growth. I'm saying that cutting taxes (that will mostly benefit higher income earners or "job creators" as the conservatives like to call them) to increase job growth is a failed plan and history has shown it to be a failed plan. However, giving tax cuts to the middle class that will go out and spend that money (money that they desperately need) and put it right back into the economy is a good idea. Helping people is a good idea. Putting a greater tax burden on these people is a bad idea especially when it goes to benefit higher income earners.

America.

@forkboy said:

@Flawed_System said:

@Drebin_893 said:

Huh, I'm English and watching it I thought Paul Ryan won it. Why do you guys all think Biden outdid him?

A majority of the kids on here side with Obama. Hoping to rebound from his poor performance they'll say Biden did a great job. Regardless of how effective he actually was.

Well, speaking as a 28 year old (so you can shove your patronising "kid" remarks) who thinks that Obama is the lesser of two evils in this presidential race but is far from a passionate supporter, total bollocks. Biden made the Romney/Ryan ticket look devoid of solid ideas. On Iran Biden sounded reasonable & considered while Ryan sounded desperate to launch another middle eastern war. In fact in general on Foreign Policy issues I thought Ryan sounded pretty hopeless, but I'm a European socialist (a proper socialist, not what some on the American right confuse with socialism) so clearly I'm unlikely to agree with Ryan's policies. "Now you're Jack Kennedy?" was a funny line, but what was more important was pointing out the pie-in-the-sky idea of 20% tax cuts. Total "malarky" as the VP would say. Biden's answer on the abortion question seemed perfect in tone, & a perfectly sensible policy: You don't thrust your religious beliefs upon those who don't share them.

It was a good 12 hours ago & I don't intend to rewatch the debate, so I'm probably forgetting things. Oh I nearly forgot the question on the Ambassador murdered in Libya. I think Ryan "scored" (I hate that politics is reduced to a sport but that's for another day) on the point about Biden not knowing that the embassy had requested more security, but I also thought Biden raised a good point about the security budget being slashed as part of Ryan's budget. If I was Biden I'd have hammered in the 47% thing a bit more though.

Personally I liked Biden's demeanour because that's exactly how I talk to free market fundamentalists, the types who think government needs to be reduced in size that it's fall enough to fit into the bedroom should be treated. With scorn, with the contempt they clearly hold their fellow human beings in.

It certainly wasn't a patronizing remark given the age bracket on this site. Not sure what the rest has to do with my post.

The guy I agree with.

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Draxyle

@golguin said:

I don't know what the debate looks like to someone who doesn't pay attention to politics and news on a daily basis, but as someone who is aware of the candidates positions and is aware of past comments concerning said positions the debate win easily went to Biden. He got the message to shut down false claims made by Ryan and he delivered.

That's the worst thing, people not following the campaign don't realize quite how deceptive and outright manipulative Romney and Ryan have been in these debates. I've gotten whiplash with how much they've flipped to moderate in just this last week; I haven't forgotten the last two years of their campaign. It was very refreshing to finally see someone call them out on it on a public stage (as well as their tax plans with absolutely no details or math given). If anything, Biden was quite justified to laugh at almost everything Ryan said.

If we're going to decide to vote based on their attitude and composure, then there's something seriously wrong with politics (what else is new!).

Seriously. I love that it's now considered rude to call out another candidates refusal to give details on anything during a debate. Sorry, but if the Romney campaign has this magical mystery box filled with instant solutions to all the worlds problems, I want to know what's inside before I check his box on the ballot.

If you know some economic history and listen to what their saying it's actually not that hard to figure out what their plan is. Sure it would be nice to hear some better details, but it's sorta hard to describe as it's not a simple "spend less money here, tax this more" plan. Basically what they're talking about is decreasing taxes to create more jobs, which in turn will increase tax-income. I actually believe there is something to it, and they are actually much less vague than the Democrats when it comes to describing a plan for how to fix the debt problem (which they haven't really adressed at all).

Having that said, as I said in the other thread, both parties are struggling because they refuse to steer away from their strong suit. Republicans keep hammering on the debt crisis and Democrats keep hammering on the social issues. If one of the parties would just show at least some consideration for both issues at the same time, that would show some true leadership and willingness to compromise.

@Drebin_893 said:

Huh, I'm English and watching it I thought Paul Ryan won it. Why do you guys all think Biden outdid him?

A majority of the kids on here side with Obama. Hoping to rebound from his poor performance they'll say Biden did a great job. Regardless of how effective he actually was.

I didn't watch it because fuck politics, but it seemed like lots of people I'm following on Twitter had good things to say about the moderator.

@Animasta said:

@Drebin_893 said:

Huh, I'm English and watching it I thought Paul Ryan won it. Why do you guys all think Biden outdid him?

because ryan sounded like he was on an infomercial? because Biden specifically asked for evidence of these loopholes and listed them whilst ryan did nothing of the sort? I really don't see how you can say that Ryan won.

I think you do a masterful job of proving @Renahzor's eloquent, well thought-out post correct.

I was doing homework all night. I really wished I would have seen but at least it was just the vice presidential debate and not one that matters.

I was doing homework all night. I really wished I would have seen but at least it was just the vice presidential debate and not one that matters.

Biden if I'm being honest. Ryan stumbled a whole hell of a lot and didn't have answers. The SECOND he was pressured on the tax cuts for the rich he broke down and wouldn't actually say what in the fuck their plan was.

But to be honest the real winner was the moderator. A woman that pressured them when they both bullshitted, because they both did although Biden less so, and didn't let their bullshit get away clean as a whistle. She was the type of moderator needed for the first debate between Mormon Mitt and Idiot Obama. Mitt got away with a massive amount of bullshit in that debate and the average American viewer won't know because they can't be arsed to follow through with checking their facts.

@LordXavierBritish said:

America.

I believe the American 'mrican spelling is 'mrica.

@TooWalrus said:

Like I said in that other thread, I listened on the radio, and there may have been some Nixon/Kennedy effect going on, but it sounded like Biden fuckin' steamrolled Ryan, who sounded flustered and out-of-his-league the whole time. Like others have said, he sounded like he was trying to sell me a car, like he was talking out of his ass the whole time. I guess on the TV broadcast, Biden came off as an aggressive asshole (but honestly, that's fine with me.)

It's fine with me too. I really don't understand this whole notion that the people running for the most powerful governmental positions, who will be forced to make the hardest sociopolitical decisions for our society (hopefully with a level head), who represent us on a world stage, and who are anything but average folk, have to, at the same time, walk this tight rope of being a regular joe that you can sit down and have a beer with. I couldn't care less about their personal idiosyncrasies--I want an intelligent, diplomatically minded individual representing me. It's ok if they're not just like my neighbor down the street--I don't necessarily want them to be. Aggression and passion doesn't have to denote a 'loose canon' or an arrogant cynical elitist. I just don't get this need for our president to be like our 2nd grade teachers. I'll actually give Romney some credit for that at the first debate.

@sissylion said:

Everyone lost.

Me. I won. I didn't see it, didn't even read about it.

@AiurFlux said:

Biden if I'm being honest. Ryan stumbled a whole hell of a lot and didn't have answers. The SECOND he was pressured on the tax cuts for the rich he broke down and wouldn't actually say what in the fuck their plan was.

But to be honest the real winner was the moderator. A woman that pressured them when they both bullshitted, because they both did although Biden less so, and didn't let their bullshit get away clean as a whistle. She was the type of moderator needed for the first debate between Mormon Mitt and Idiot Obama. Mitt got away with a massive amount of bullshit in that debate and the average American viewer won't know because they can't be arsed to follow through with checking their facts.

She was refreshingly aggressive about that kind of stuff, but I actually thought that she was pretty shitty about keeping time properly.

@TooWalrus said:

Like I said in that other thread, I listened on the radio, and there may have been some Nixon/Kennedy effect going on, but it sounded like Biden fuckin' steamrolled Ryan, who sounded flustered and out-of-his-league the whole time. Like others have said, he sounded like he was trying to sell me a car, like he was talking out of his ass the whole time. I guess on the TV broadcast, Biden came off as an aggressive asshole (but honestly, that's fine with me.)

That's really interesting.

You have to remember that Paul Ryan was two years old when Joe Biden first became a Senator. The dude IS Washington. He's ran for President himself in the past. This was, for all intents and purposes, Ryan's first rodeo. He is now in the "Freshman Senator running for the big leagues" position that Obama was in previously.

Guys remember that these are OPINIONS. Of course I'm biased towards Paul Ryan, I'm a Conservative for crying out loud. I'm no independent. Having said that, I try to remain open and if I thought Biden won the debate I would've said so. But let's remember that not everyone is a liberal, and not everyone is a Conservative. I chose Conservatism just like you choose Liberalism or Libertarianism or whatever. But that doesn't mean you need to denigrate the other side and say horrible things about them. It's two different clear visions for where we want the country to go.

I really respect Obama for how he has maintained an upstanding, moral image, been a strong family man and a great father, and raising the standards of the nation as a whole in becoming the first African American President and achieving the highest office in the land. I'll proudly display his photo on my wall along with the other Presidents. I'd much rather young blacks look up in hope at what they can aspire to be in Obama, than any many of the other media figures that are available to them today in the rap culture or what-have-you. Of course, I'll just as quickly point to Condeleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Alan West and other figures, but Obama achieved the unthinkable and thus he gets top nods.

Anyway, to finish my point on why America should turn to Romney Ryan from Obama Biden, I'll quote a Hispanic voter from Florida in a piece from the Tampa Bay Times who is now voting for Romney:

"We ran away from other countries in search of a more traditional United States," said Coral Gables resident Mary Gonzalez, who immigrated from Venezuela. "I think with the current president, the United States moves to the Left. And with Romney, I believe he can return the United States to its traditional course."

@Turambar said:

@Flawed_System said:

@Drebin_893 said:

Huh, I'm English and watching it I thought Paul Ryan won it. Why do you guys all think Biden outdid him?

A majority of the kids on here side with Obama. Hoping to rebound from his poor performance they'll say Biden did a great job. Regardless of how effective he actually was.

Mmm, can you make a case for how ineffective he was? I'd like to hear your take.

Go look in the other thread.

@JasonR86 said:

C. Neither.

QFT

@astrotriforce: Two points. One, don't libertarians fall closer to the conservative camp than anything else? Ron Paul is still a registered Republican after all. Second, that quote seem pretty vague. What exactly does it, and you by extension, mean by the "traditional course"?

@astrotriforce: Two points. One, don't libertarians fall closer to the conservative camp than anything else? Ron Paul is still a registered Republican after all. Second, that quote seem pretty vague. What exactly does it, and you by extension, mean by the "traditional course"?

@Turambar said:

@astrotriforce: Two points. One, don't libertarians fall closer to the conservative camp than anything else? Ron Paul is still a registered Republican after all. Second, that quote seem pretty vague. What exactly does it, and you by extension, mean by the "traditional course"?

it means outlawing abortions and banning gay marriage obvs

@Animasta said:

@Turambar said:

@astrotriforce: Two points. One, don't libertarians fall closer to the conservative camp than anything else? Ron Paul is still a registered Republican after all. Second, that quote seem pretty vague. What exactly does it, and you by extension, mean by the "traditional course"?

it means outlawing abortions and banning gay marriage obvs

You're not helping.

@Animasta said:

@Turambar said:

@astrotriforce: Two points. One, don't libertarians fall closer to the conservative camp than anything else? Ron Paul is still a registered Republican after all. Second, that quote seem pretty vague. What exactly does it, and you by extension, mean by the "traditional course"?

it means outlawing abortions and banning gay marriage obvs

Those are just the "perks" we get along side fun things like deregulation and unfettered political spending/fundraising!

@Turambar said:

@Animasta said:

@Turambar said:

@astrotriforce: Two points. One, don't libertarians fall closer to the conservative camp than anything else? Ron Paul is still a registered Republican after all. Second, that quote seem pretty vague. What exactly does it, and you by extension, mean by the "traditional course"?

it means outlawing abortions and banning gay marriage obvs

You're not helping.

to be fair ryan was very cagey on whether abortions would be allowed at all on the debate

You have to look at it in terms of objective. Even The Prez himself said he lost some cred in the last debate, and most polls have him tied or very very slightly behind. Biden's goal was to come out forceful and liven up the base. He accomplished his mission. Ryan was there to look all official and stuff. He did that. Will this change the result or polls at all? No. No one won this debate. Anyone telling you otherwise is in the bag already for one side or the other.

@Animasta said:

@Turambar said:

@Animasta said:

@Turambar said:

@astrotriforce: Two points. One, don't libertarians fall closer to the conservative camp than anything else? Ron Paul is still a registered Republican after all. Second, that quote seem pretty vague. What exactly does it, and you by extension, mean by the "traditional course"?

it means outlawing abortions and banning gay marriage obvs

You're not helping.

to be fair ryan was very cagey on whether abortions would be allowed at all on the debate

I know very well what the Ryan/Romney stance was and currently is. But there are more to conservative ideas than just those two social issues. I get the feeling @astrotriforce was speaking more on economic issues, and I'd like to hear his specifics.

Biden was a childish douchebag.