The Bank - New Map out on the 25th

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glots

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It's time to dust off that copy of Hitman 2 you own and check out a brand new location, coming out tomorrow on tuesday!

You'll of course need to buy the Expansion Pass or, I assume, just buy it seperately like with the previous game.

I admittedly haven't touched the game in months and haven't even bothered with keeping up with the Elusive Targets. I blame both my general lazyness and the more traditional release model of the game, instead of the not-so-monthly schedule we had last time around. But since I already have the Expansion Pass and I'm on vacation, I'll dig into this sometime during this week.

I'm also hoping @brad and @danryckert will check this either in QL form or during the UPF.

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jeremyf

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This looks like a fun map. I've been trying to get back into the game, but I haven't completely succeeded.

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notnert427

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#3 notnert427  Online

I'm excited about this. This should be high-security for a decent level of challenge, and I'm curious to see what hijinks they can some up with. I just hope they don't lean too hard into a socioeconomic angle here.

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rocketblast0063

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Yeah, they are finally pushing some new locations that aint sniper maps.
It looks good, can be interesting with a bank, and everything inside it, like the vault, the different offices and what not.
New York and USA again though, that's a bit of a bummer for me. I tend to like the more diverse and excotic places like Sapienza. Why not eastern or north europe, like Ukraine, Russia, Denmark or Norway. Haven't seen stuff like that in a while in Hitman.

Anyways, this update is not enough for me to install Hitman 2 again, and buy the expansion pack. Not for just one new map. Especially since it feels a bit mundane, good but mundane. For sure not a new Sapienza.
Also, if Giant Bomb is gonna coverage it, I'm only here if BOTH Dan and Brad do it.

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notnert427

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#5 notnert427  Online

@rocketblast0063: Kinda premature to write this map off, isn't it? HITMAN 2's maps have been very good overall, and I don't expect this one to be any different. Also FYI, they've promised at least one more map with the expansion pack.

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Bollard

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Glad I left this game installed since I beat it! Got the silver edition of the game or whatever the cheapest one was that came with the expansion pass so I'll certainly be jumping on this when it comes out.

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curiosus

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I've got silent assassin on all but 2 elusives (alerted a guard stupidly on one, and missed hawkes bay). The big disappointment for me was hearing the 2 extra missions included with the bank are more like patient zero, and they stressed not proper bonus missions. The rate of meaningful singleplayer content is cratering interest in the game, I expect its more WB forcing them onto the WB model of bad dlc but I worry for the studio and interest in Hitman 3. The mutliplayer stuff and sniper maps are nice but its not what i'm there for or what most people are there for. And to put out only 1 new map in 6 months (and by the sounds of it only 2 in a year) is not enough for me and seemingly not enough to catch other people's attention either (giant bomb staff! who i'd love to see in action again).

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curiosus

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@bollard: Silver includes the bank but not the next map. WB DLC is terrible, you need gold for a complete expansion pass with both new maps. Considering the price (£33) and learning that its 2 new maps and no bonus missions completely overpriced.

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glots

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@curiosus said:

but I worry for the studio and interest in Hitman 3.

They are opening (or have already opened) a new studio in Sweden, so I don't think they are doing all that bad, even if Hitman 2 wasn't, to my knowledge, a massive hit. Plus they have kept up with Elusive Targets and some other content, even if the Contract stuff and all that isn't really what I'm personally looking for.

Finding out that you can't buy this sepearely is a bummer though. 40€ for one map now and another sometime during the fall is kinda pricey.

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curiosus

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#10  Edited By curiosus

@glots said:
@curiosus said:

but I worry for the studio and interest in Hitman 3.

They are opening (or have already opened) a new studio in Sweden, so I don't think they are doing all that bad, even if Hitman 2 wasn't, to my knowledge, a massive hit. Plus they have kept up with Elusive Targets and some other content, even if the Contract stuff and all that isn't really what I'm personally looking for.

Finding out that you can't buy this sepearely is a bummer though. 40€ for one map now and another sometime during the fall is kinda pricey.

Perhaps worried for the studio is a bit of an exaggeration, I am sure WB will keep funding them and they will make 3. But things are moving in the wrong direction content wise and they are losing the audience they captured in 2016. The obvious answer to me is invest more and put out more content or allow the studio to use the same model as the first game, but the obvious answer to games producer execs, is cut funding and blame the studios. WB seems to have the same overpriced bad dlc model for every game.

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rocketblast0063

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@notnert427:

I'm not writing it off. I will probably just wait for more content before I go into Hitman again. Last time I played I got mastery on all Hitman 2 and Hitman (2016) maps. So that's the way I prefer to do it.

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notnert427

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#12 notnert427  Online

@glots:@curiosus: $100 for a game + DLC isn't an atypical asking price, and as a value proposition, the Hitman games are pretty tough to beat given how much replayability they pack into them. Compared with 2016 HITMAN, you're getting seven full-fledged locations instead of six (I don't consider 2016's training missions or Hawke's Bay as proper locations). I liked the Patient Zero campaign quite a bit, and a few of the bonus episodes were fun for what they were, but they were ultimately re-skins of existing maps, which falls a bit short of full new locations. Provided "The Bank" and the other location to come are on par with the other HITMAN 2 locations in their depth, it will be well-worth asking price, IMO.

As for the ability to buy this episodically, that model is what made a bunch of people VERY upset once they figured out that buying each one piecemeal ended up costing more than the full game. Those who bought each episode individually plus the bonus missions and patient zero ended up spending $100ish on everything in the 2016 HITMAN anyway, so look at it that way if it helps. I thought the episodic model was fine, but gamer backlash is the reason it isn't there this time. If they were charging $15 per location, it'd be basically the same asking price it is now, except a bunch of people would be going apeshit upon realizing they paid more than they would have if they'd just bought the whole thing, like what happened with HITMAN 2016.

I figure if any developer deserves my hard-earned, it's IO Interactive. Both HITMAN and HITMAN 2 are fucking terrific games. And as mentioned, I'm not sure HITMAN 2 is as much of a sales darling as it probably deserves to be, and getting kicked to the curb by Square after making a GOTY-caliber product was certainly a tough deal that I don't want them going through again. So I'll happily give IO a c-note, regardless of what WB is or how the game asks for it. I have zero issue with the quality they've delivered thus far and want them to be able to keep making HITMAN forever.

@notnert427:

I'm not writing it off. I will probably just wait for more content before I go into Hitman again. Last time I played I got mastery on all Hitman 2 and Hitman (2016) maps. So that's the way I prefer to do it.

Okay, cool. Glad to hear it. This game merits that kind of deep dive. Cheers, duder.

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curiosus

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#13  Edited By curiosus

@glots:@curiosus: $100 for a game + DLC isn't an atypical asking price, and as a value proposition, the Hitman games are pretty tough to beat given how much replayability they pack into them. Compared with 2016 HITMAN, you're getting seven full-fledged locations instead of six (I don't consider 2016's training missions or Hawke's Bay as proper locations). I liked the Patient Zero campaign quite a bit, and a few of the bonus episodes were fun for what they were, but they were ultimately re-skins of existing maps, which falls a bit short of full new locations. Provided "The Bank" and the other location to come are on par with the other HITMAN 2 locations in their depth, it will be well-worth asking price, IMO.

As for the ability to buy this episodically, that model is what made a bunch of people VERY upset once they figured out that buying each one piecemeal ended up costing more than the full game. Those who bought each episode individually plus the bonus missions and patient zero ended up spending $100ish on everything in the 2016 HITMAN anyway, so look at it that way if it helps. I thought the episodic model was fine, but gamer backlash is the reason it isn't there this time. If they were charging $15 per location, it'd be basically the same asking price it is now, except a bunch of people would be going apeshit upon realizing they paid more than they would have if they'd just bought the whole thing, like what happened with HITMAN 2016.

I figure if any developer deserves my hard-earned, it's IO Interactive. Both HITMAN and HITMAN 2 are fucking terrific games. And as mentioned, I'm not sure HITMAN 2 is as much of a sales darling as it probably deserves to be, and getting kicked to the curb by Square after making a GOTY-caliber product was certainly a tough deal that I don't want them going through again. So I'll happily give IO a c-note, regardless of what WB is or how the game asks for it. I have zero issue with the quality they've delivered thus far and want them to be able to keep making HITMAN forever.

@rocketblast0063 said:

@notnert427:

I'm not writing it off. I will probably just wait for more content before I go into Hitman again. Last time I played I got mastery on all Hitman 2 and Hitman (2016) maps. So that's the way I prefer to do it.

Okay, cool. Glad to hear it. This game merits that kind of deep dive. Cheers, duder.

The episodic model was a huge success, pricing quibbles aside. I doubt IOI changed the model, they had a full year to see how successful it was after the initial whining vanished. Thats something coming from WB, the release model, forcing the game out when it needed a few more months polish, the prices and tiering of DLC is pretty standard for all games they publish. And its crap, that says nothing about IOI because its been forced on them by their publisher, and we've seen what they can do when a publisher is not forcing them to follow a bad release formula.

£45 for main game, £33 for expansion pass is what I'd tell you if you asked me how much any WB game costs. Thats a great price for the main game, and massively overpriced for 2 extra levels. The first of which is good but on the small side. Don't defend shitty DLC practices like this its, the responsibility all falls on the publisher, this is WBs usual greedy approach. Is a bad value proposition and not letting IOI deliver the singleplayer content I want to see. I gave them the benefit of the doubt over patient zero because it was priced reasonably, they were up front about what it was, and that they needed money because of their situation. That doesn't make it ok for their new publisher to keep that going rather than give IOI the money to develop properly. WB is selling out IOI and the fans.

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Bollard

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@curiosus: Ah right, turns out I have gold then. I think I got the gold version of the game for the same price it was meant to be for the base game at launch so I kinda forgot.

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notnert427

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#15 notnert427  Online

@curiosus said:

The episodic model was a huge success, pricing quibbles aside. I doubt IOI changed the model, they had a full year to see how successful it was after the initial whining vanished. Thats something coming from WB, the release model, forcing the game out when it needed a few more months polish, the prices and tiering of DLC is pretty standard for all games they publish. And its crap, that says nothing about IOI because its been forced on them by their publisher, and we've seen what they can do when a publisher is not forcing them to follow a bad release formula.

£45 for main game, £33 for expansion pass is what I'd tell you if you asked me how much any WB game costs. Thats a great price for the main game, and massively overpriced for 2 extra levels. The first of which is good but on the small side. Don't defend shitty DLC practices like this its, the responsibility all falls on the publisher, this is WBs usual greedy approach. Is a bad value proposition and not letting IOI deliver the singleplayer content I want to see. I gave them the benefit of the doubt over patient zero because it was priced reasonably, they were up front about what it was, and that they needed money because of their situation. That doesn't make it ok for their new publisher to keep that going rather than give IOI the money to develop properly. WB is selling out IOI and the fans.

Looking at the main game of HITMAN 2, it has five proper locations for $60, or $12 per location. The expansion pass is $40 for two more locations, or $20 per location. Is $8 really the difference between a great price and massively overpriced? And if $12 per location is a great price on five of the locations, doesn't that somewhat offset them asking $20 for the other two? Viewed as an entire $100 product, the locations average $14.29 each. It really seems like splitting hairs here, because if $12/location is a great price, $14.29/location seems like at least a fair price.

However, I'm getting the sense that you're just not a fan of WB and that's where this is really coming from, which is fine, but they're not doing much different here with DLC than other publishers do. Whether you like them or not, WB is financially backing IO so that IO can continue to make HITMAN games. HITMAN 2 may very well not exist had WB not bought IO, and it's not like Square previously owning IO and then kicking them to the curb based on unrealistic sales expectations was a better state of affairs from a publishing standpoint.

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#16  Edited By gbrading

I like the level. It is smaller than I was hoping for, and it is a bit disappointing it only goes to Mastery level 15. The game plot is marginally extended by the level, but only in a minor fashion (this is not like Patient Zero, the main game story is continued on from Isle of Sgail). But there is a fair amount to do, funny interactions and the challenge of a very security-camera heavy map is interesting. No doubt they'll add more feats and challenges as time goes on. Overall thumbs up, but it is the smallest main level (discounting Hawke's Bay which is more of a tutorial map like the training missions).

With regards to price I think Hitman 2 as a whole is still overpriced, and if I hadn't already snagged a good deal on it I wouldn't be going in at full price. But IO have and continue to make a good game which I would unquestionably recommend when it goes on discount.

Edit: This is the best thing from the new level and I hope they go back and add this to old levels.

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Honkalot

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If anyone’s playing and know how to get started on the heist opportunity I would love to know. I have spent maybe two hours trying to find the starting point with no success.

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curiosus

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#18  Edited By curiosus

I was happy with Hitman 1, the DLC was priced reasonably, everything was communicated clearly. Apart from patient Zero which was after they lost their publisher and needed cash because Square were unreasonable. We got a few sentences describing the DLC last year so WB could shrink it if the game sold badly. And now the 2 bonus missions have ended up as special assignments a fairly big downgrade.

WB also ruined the Arkham series with bad DLC and not delaying when more work was needed (Arkham Knight). They have form ruining franchises but I'm primarily looking at my experience with Hitman 1, versus Hitman 2 and the only reasonable explanation for the worsening DLC experience is WB even if they didn't have form.

Saying this is standard practice is ridiculous, this industry is routinely screwing Devs and consumers. Not doing right be people's salaries, not properly funding development, gouging consumers, coming up with 'surprise mechanics' and wondering cluelessly why they are so hated that government is going to have regulate them. This industry is massively profitable for the right people (publishers and shareholders not devs). This greed is not excusable, defendable or normal its just become routine. Its only seems irrelevant to Hitman because its everywhere. That doesn't mean I'm gonna be happy that its ruining one of my current favourite franchises. I would spend more on Hitman if only the content was there, even if WB was still publishing, but I've never seen them even react to this stuff beyond trying to blame their devs for Arkham.

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It's small, easy, and short on challenge material, but I like it. The structure of it reminds me a bit of Hokkaido. I especially like how intuitive the story missions are -- I ended up completing a few of them without tracking just by following my nose.

@honkalot: I think the heist opportunity popped up while I was downstairs in the hall with the deposit boxes? Like maybe just walk up to the glass doors of the vault room?

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Honkalot

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@peezmachine: Thanks! That was the thing I was missing somehow. It’s bugged for me though, triggering it just makes the thing disappear. I’ll try restarting, now I know where to look at least. :)

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Oh man, we're getting not just a Quick Look, but a live one!

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@honkalot:I've encountered the same thing. You apparently have to just wait a little by the door and eventually Diana will give a spiel about what to do next.

From what I've played, the map has a bunch of fun things going for it and while it's nice to see full cinematic cutscenes return, they're... not very good cutscenes.

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I've done maybe over 75% of the challenges now, in 2 runs, would have 1 but a bunch of them were missing on release day. Its a really great map but I can't get over how small it is. Still holding out hope that the resort is massive, but I expect its another small one.

I won't be buying expansion passes or any dlc at launch for hitman 3, its a real bummer to have to take that position but I can't support a publisher with such a bizarre and out of touch DLC strategy. The expansion pass is half price right now so there was no reason at all to pick it up at launch, there were a few cosmetics in January but waiting a few months to get them would have been fine. I bought early because I trusted IOI but didn't think about WBs track record. Its about the right price now at 50% off, but I'd rather get 50% or 100% more content and pay a sensible amount for that extra content.

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@curiosus: I didn't even realize it was on sale - thanks for the heads up! I was going to hold out to see how the second map is, but I may just spring for the expansion at 50% off. Maybe that will get me back into the game again - I haven't played in a while.

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rocketblast0063

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@curiosus:
I agree with the pricing of the expansion pack. I thought it would include 4 new real locations. But it's not.
Ordinary Steam price for E-pack is 40€. That's €20 per level. You get some remixed missions, but that's way less worth than new locations.

It's Steam summer sale now, 50% down, so 20€ for the pack.

40€ for two locations is overpriced I think. It's more what you would expect for a full new season for Hitman 2, like 5 new locations or so.

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#26  Edited By curiosus

@baconhound: I've been pretty negative about my disappointment over the dlc plan but everything else is great. Its worth picking up the expansion at 50% off and if you've still got more stuff to do in levels the bank is a good snack to get you back in. I'm close to 100% unlocks so was looking for something more significant to get my teeth into. They even added a new mechanic in bank that I've emailed them about before (it involves wet floors).

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