Just finished the prologue and I think the story is quite excellent. The attack on the village, the introduction to the bad guys. It was really well done.

Jank wise, the only issues I've had is pop in.

So is there gonna be a quicklook or?

@tycobb: http://www.shacknews.com/article/103325/kingdom-come-deliverance---how-to-save-your-game

https://www.vg247.com/2018/02/15/kingdom-come-deliverance-developer-promises-change-save-and-quit-lockpicking/

I think mine might be bugged?

I hope so, I could see Vinny getting up to some very funny hijinks but on the other hand it seems like a Rorie game

@mmarsu: with the gamergate/ alt-right ties i HIGHLY doubt it.

@oursin_360: Are people still angry about the dumb "there are no black people in this game thing" cause it's really dumb IMO. There real problems on planet earth that need fixing. Let's start with those instead off crying about somebody's creative vision.

@soulcake: No, racism is not really dumb. It’s important to talk about these things, and just because it’s a video game, that doesn’t make the criticism any less valid. Also, your “bigger fish to fry” comment is a fallacy. This isn’t an either or situation. Problems of all size can be worked on simultaneously, and giving attention to one over the other says nothing of importance or validity.

Everyone is free to play and enjoy Kingdom Come, but it should also be under the knowledge and consideration that the studio lead is a racist, sexist asshole.

Well i think it's more their long time support of gamergate and just being pretty shitty people all around. And imo with the current state of the world gamergate/alt right support and allowance is in fact a real problem.

anyway i'm not going to derail your thread, I was just answering the question asked.

@razzuel: I don't want this thread to become too political but calling a person you never met a racist sexist asshole seems a bit to much. And putting a certain color of human not in your game doesn't make the game racist or the developer. It's like saying a game is Xenophobe cause there aren't enough aliens in a building sim.

The criticism of racism in this game has to be one of the more pathetic things I've heard recently.

@oursin_360: Thanks for giving a constructive answer !

The game looks like something that was once a thing but then someone took that thing and tore it apart and threw it on the ground and now it's spread out on your lawn all through the winter and it's rotten and it stinks and it's time to burn it.

@nickhead: no, beds also save your game.

@nickhead: are you sleeping in the right bed? For some reason if I sleep in the one I woke up in it doesn't save. But if I sleep in the one next to it, the game saves

@aktivity: picking locks makes noise. It's possible he heard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice

That's the patron Saint of the region this game takes place in. There is a giant statue of him in Sasau.

We have dozens of art frescoes of Prague at this time period, and guess what. Black people are everywhere. As nobility, as servants, as merchants, as religious icons.

And why wouldn't there be. Alexander conquered the Middle East, Rome conquered the world. Neither cared about race. Service Guarantees Citizenship, and thousands of "Aethiopians" served in the Legions, then came back to Italy to further serve Rome. We have evidence of black Senators, black political figures, and black nobility all throughout the Middle Ages across many different countries.

Were they large populations? Of course not. At best you'd be seeing a 5% black population in Italy, and a maybe 3% showing in the HRE. But that's still not "everyone is pasty white and has never seen a black man before.".

Like if this was a game set in Medieval England, I could see the argument. Yeah, Braveheart has little to no reason to show any minority characters, because it's set in the true bumfuck nowhere of the setting. But the region KC:D takes place in is a major trading hub during the time period, and a path to Prague for traders coming from the Middle East. This is 200 years after the Crusades, and the HRE ( and Bohemia in particular ) is trying to trade with everyone it can.

There's also other major historical inaccuracies. France and England were nations that built themselves on the ideals of traditional sword and shield, longbows, and cavalry. The HRE and particularly Bohemia was very much not. We have plenty of historical record of the Hussite Wars, which were fought only 20 years after the events of the game, and the Bohemians barely even used basic infantry. They used heavy pike supported by pavise walls and crossbowmen. They also used heavy cannonade across the field. We also have plenty of evidence of them using similar tactics before the era of the game, mind you the cannon was in regular military use 20 years before the start date of the game.

Like there's a time and place for historical mistakes. I get it. We grew up on the idea of white Europe thanks to Hollywood, and it's hard to shake that idea. It's the place the white people come from, so it obviously wasn't very diverse. And if a game comes out set in the Medieval Era with a predominantly white Europe, then fine it's probably not trying to be historically accurate, it's a game, they probably didn't do any research and are just aping those old Hollywood movies.

But when you very specifically say you are making a game that will be fully historically accurate, and then decide to not even include the most prominent Saint of the region who happens to be black? And really push the nationalism angle, and really push some strange alt history angles that try and prop up the ideas of white dominance? It's really, really awkward to say the least. There will be people out there that play this game and view this as the true sequence of events, embrace the nationalism the author is trying to push, and use this to further cement that there was no minorities in Europe. And that's a bad outcome which pushes us past "it's just a game."

Can at least one of these threads actually go the entire duration of its life actually discussing the fucking game?

As I mentioned previously even just picking the shield or going up the ladder and picking up the bow/arrow makes him show up.
I ended up using the mod that bypasses the mini-game (and the mod that lets me save anywhere). He still immediately spawns in the guardhouse as soon as I open the chest,
but I was able to quickly run past him. Now he just stands there not moving whatsoever and staring at the empty chest.

@nals: I rarely comment anymore on the GB forums because of its reactionary tendency to silence cultural critique of games, but I just wanted to say I really appreciated your comment. You do good works nals.

@rk92: It's discussing historical inaccuracies in the game. You're free to not care about that aspect of it, but I don't see how it wouldn't be game related, especially when it is selling itself as being historically accurate.

@nals: interesting read. i already knew one of the devs was a gamergate fool so i had no real interest in this game but its always good to know more about the history of black folks in medieval europe. people complaining that this is not "about the game" have a very narrow view on games criticism

@boonsong: While it's worthwhile discussing it bringing up the topic tends to derail threads and get them locked which means it's probably better for everyone to just have that discussion in a separate thread.

So, taking a step back, let's just all take a deep breath and realize that all of this kind of stemmed from a decidedly assumptive answer to the question of whether or not this will be Quick Looked. There's a good chance this won't get a QL for a whole bunch of reasons, and while the Gamergate ties and this guys kind of shitty public facing persona (at times) could easily be one of them, us fighting about it in this thread is probably a little silly and just a good way to get this thread locked. We should at least wait and see if they mention the game at all on the Beastcast (since if it DOES get a QL at all it will be by Vinny most likely -- although Ben and Jeff did do Elex so who knows).

In the meantime, it really feels like it's own thread should be started regarding the extracurricular stuff around this game because it's just veering into whatabout territory for people that do just want to talk about the game itself, and it sucks for them because it just gets the thread locked. I don't think anyone needs to finger wag at anyone else, and I think there is interesting stuff here, but this is just becoming completely circular at this point so I think if it's a topic that people want to flesh out more it should just have it's own thread. Just my $0.02.

@rk92: I was going to test this because yeah I was sleeping in the one I woke up in...assuming that was my bed haha. Hopefully that's the case thanks for confirming!

It's pretty chill here in Norway, actually!
Also, I think the game is great. This is my Dark Souls, my Monster Hunter, my Dragon Ball. I finally have a stupid thing to love. But that lockpicking...

@nickhead: yeah I slept in it twice and saw nothing indicating it saved. So I just decided to sleep in the other one and it popped up a black screen that said "game saved" when I woke up.

Apparently Gamespot did a fairly long video demonstrating this game. Here it is.

One of the first things they mention about it is that you have to have an item on hand to make a save game. That means this is a flat no for me - I am not going to buy a buggy-ass Eurojank open-world RPG where I can't save whenever I want to. I haven't seen much of the rest of that video, though, so I don't really have many other comments about it. I don't really like that there's an animation for picking stuff up, though, partly because it looks bad and partly because waiting for that animation will become annoying eventually.

Satan had a baby...and that baby is this videogame.

I've really enjoyed the game so far, but as many people have said, the saving can be annoying when combined with the buggy nature. Twice I've run into bugs that made me need to reload an old save or quit and lose progress. At first the save items seem pricey but after a couple hours they're basically dirt cheap so it isn't an issue as long as you're not spamming them.

Here's a work around for new players: If you get stuck behind a bugged door or stuck in some bushes and can't get out, all you need to do is fast travel and it will move you out of your predicament. If a door is bugged and you can't get through all you need to do is save and reload and it should be fixed. I've only had this happen twice and I didn't know how to fix it the first time.

The second bug involved fast travelling. My charaacter became hungry while travelling and the game just broke down. Had to quit from the task manager. It's only happened once in like 15 hours and I've had no other major issues thankfully.

Given there are so many games that came out last year that I haven't had the time to get to, even though this game looks super up my alley, I'd rather give my time and money to any of the other good games that came out recently that weren't made by a fucking horrifically reprehensible shithead.

Lots of cool people on here slagging off someone they don't even know.

I'm taking the plunge after watching a couple streams. 31.7 GB download started!

@nals: I take your point about the saint, fair enough that does seem a bit sour. But to bring up both Alexander and Rome as a reason why there would be a black population in 15thC Bohemia seems a bit off. Rome fell almost 1000 years before the events of the game and Alexander 1600 years, most of the lingering multiculturalism that existed during those periods (it certainly did) was unlikely to be sustained into the 15thC. Much of what Rome had in place totally collapsed and populations did not move as freely, especially in Northern Europe. Your figures for population demographics just seem made up to suit your argument and I am willing to bet the majority of people had never seen a none white person. Hell, there are plenty of examples of late 19th and early 20th century Europeans having never seen a POC. If this game included Prague I'd be more inclined to side with the race argument but I just don't see any grounding here. From what I've read of trade routes I also don't buy that there would be much significant travel across the region. Localised trade spread across the continent, not some bloke from China following the silk road right through to Italy or Germany.

@picky_bugger: yeah, I tend to agree with this. The game takes place in a small area of Bohemia which is largely countryside, which makes it even less likely there would be that many non white people.

@nals: This is the last thing i say about this whole thing cause i don't want this thread to get locked. There as much pictures of Saint Maurice being depicted white and one painting where he's depicted black witch is probably a Coptic interpretation of said holly man and a statue of a black knight.link Look man i don't care if they put purple yellow or green people in this game. What i do hate is people going crazzy over almost nothing and calling people they don't know slurs and wanting to ignite some dumb race war. Let's just all build a giant rocket and colonise Mars !

Damn, I saw some stuff about this game years ago and it looked interesting as hell but this end result is pretty disappointing so far. Seems like a classic cycle of kickstarter games promising more than ends up being feasible.
Plus looking through this now the stuff that the creator posted is hella sketchy.

@xenolalia: I think it would make a great game to get on sale. I'd say 90% of the time there's no bugs outside of stiff facial animation and clipping on clothes.

The big bugs make good ammunition for video clips but they're not representative of the game.

Also, I wouldn't let the creator's dumb posts keep you from trying a genuinely good game nor would I let people who make mountains out of mole hills do the same.

@boonsong: At this point, I'm really curious to see if there's a list of historical inaccuracies about this game. That being a major advertised feature of the game, I do see if there's anything else they've gotten wrong. I think that is certainly relevant to the discussion of the game.

@xenolalia: I kickstarted it when it was pitched 4 years ago, and more than 20 hours in, I find that they have hit all the things that they were promising. I also have only encountered a couple of bugs, but nothing major. The most janky thing in the game is when it some rendering issues of the main characters neck. It seems to have issues drawing it without a helmet in cutscenes when you have a helmet equipped.

I like the setting and I enjoyed Mount & Blade so I'd like to try the sword fighting, plus I'm a sucker for Medieval themed stuff generally. Could do with seeing more of it before dropping money on it but I'm definitely interested.

All i'll say is if they avoid covering this game because of 1 person behind it yet chose to cover Hatred when it released that would be a shame as this game actually has redeeming qualities.

Wow, I can't believe the split this game has on GiantBomb
Half of us love it, half of us refuse to play it because they are convinced they will hate it because of an easily removable save system, and the rest just want to talk about racism...
I'll tell you what though, most of the people that played it love it. The only ones that say they hate it are the ones that won't play it..

@jimmyoct87 said:

I just watched Dansgaming play through a (priest) quest on twitch and it was actually fantastic - Witcher 3 level great. Overall it does seem quite janky, but the right kind of jank for Vinny!

@ivdamke: It would not surprise me if this game is blacklisted on a few sites in the US.

I read the interviews the main developer gave and the criticism he received. My conclusion (based on those interviews) is that he is definitely a contrarian and a bit of an ass (and potentially wrong about brown skinned people in Bohemia in the early 1400s - we will most likely never know), but that is where an honest person would/should end their factual game related critique. Everything else - regarding the "isms" thrown at him - seems to be either speculative or irrelevant. I understand that some people are unable to separate the art from the artist, but you don't even have to do it to justify a very critical look at the final product. Looking at someone's product is not the same as supporting their views, you can and maybe even should make it very clear that it isn't beforehand.

Anyway, I will wait with the purchase until they have fixed some of those bugs, but I have to say that the outdoor environments (especially the positioning of the flora) are the most realistic looking ones I have ever seen in an open world video game. The environmental artists and designers have done an impeccable job.

cant see myself throwing down 60 bones for this but i really, really want to give it a try. if no QL maybe they'll boot it up on UPF for a bit

The first time I heard about this game was when someone talked about the VR experience. That's is actually most of what I heard about it. It's basically Oblivion (I say Oblivion because the font used in it looks like Oblivion) but without the fantasy and more historical; more 'realistic'. I actually thought it was exclusive to PC up until last night when I saw it on PSN, but since it's not I am curious how it plays on the PS4 at least which is where I'd get it if I ever played it. Also, yeah I heard about the save system just about an hour ago as I watched Game Informer's podcast. That sounds weird and not that good, leading to some frustration. I also saw that the game can be somewhat broken, which I don't think I want to get into.

I actually am loving it. As someone who has watched HEMA in the past the HEMA model is quite frankly very smooth, and feels exceptionally good in motion. It looks janky as hell in videos, but plays very well. I also love the focus on architecture, many of the side quests, and even parts of the story. I also don't particularly believe anyone on the dev team is racist, or had ill intent. It makes some sense for this particular region to be devoid of minority representation, you'd expect to see more of it in the larger cities, such as Prague. Vavra has said as much, and has apologized for his behavior/words in the past in a way that seems genuine.

My core worry, and the reason I wrote my post is so people realize the Middle Ages are far more vast then they might think. And to get people thinking about those things, because learning about our past can't hurt anybody. We build notions off of the media we interact with, and years of Hollywood/gaming showing us an all white Europe has built that up to many people as the true Europe. Having this game be another drop into that hat isn't a positive thing. People should challenge their media, and learn from it.

Even within the confines of "it's just a game", we learn from our games. How many here aced History class because of all those nights we spent playing Age of Empires. How many of us got higher marks in English because we played Age of Mythology and could at least piece together a few of the epic poems. How many of us went into WW2 tests ready to go, because we had already fought the Germans back in Call of Duty.

Ideally, encouraging people to learn more about the period the game is set in would be a positive force.

Then again, apparently most people just put porn in the background on full blast and skip all cutscenes in games. So who knows.

You can play video games without porn on in the background? What are cutscenes?

Side note, i'd love for games to actually delve more into the historical side and do non-fiction games more often. Games don't have to be high fantasy all the time as the success of this game shows. To make a game like Deliverance but instead is entirely non-fiction would be very interesting to me.

Also just pulled the trigger on the game. I haven't maced anyone good in a video game for a while so I couldn't hold back. I'm on a modest machine so I'll post how it runs here for some people who might be interested.

@nals: Really well said. On a somewhat related note, I'm just finishing a listen of Ghengis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, and it's definitely shed some light on the medieval world. If you're into medieval history at all, it's worth checking out.