I mean they did the best they could by putting it in the show notes, save actually editing a warning into the podcast (which would also be appreciated but super unlikely). I don't think they need to go as far as editing the whole thing out.

That said, spoiling the very end of any game should just not be a thing than happens for something released so recently, especially a long, story-heavy game like Nier. People acting like they can't talk about a myriad of other things while not talking about the ending are kind of insane, almost as insane as I am about not getting spoiled.

Pretty much this. It's just a courtesy. Even if some people don't care about spoilers, they must know that plenty of other people do. Sometimes on the podcasts they talk around things to avoid spoiling it for other people on the podcast. Spoilers are real, people.

@devise22: you can measure spoilers with simple logic: are you telling someone about something that happens in a game before they experience it for themselves? Then it is a spoiler. The subjective part on both ends is what severity makes it important? For me I generally need a warm up period to play games at lower than 30 fps before I stop being distracted by it, because I usually play PC games and on a 144hz monitor. Others, especially those mostly playing on consoles, are fine with 30fps games.

You're ignoring the important part: how does it impact a player's experience. There is no magic, objectively agreed upon framerate that is the lowest comfortable for even most gamers. Because that is a subjective experience. It all is, because we are talking about video games.

You're acting incredibly aggressive towards someone suggesting that you simply wait a week to hear discussion on a general gaming podcast. It is much more realistic and fair to ask some to wait rather than demand others find the time to finish something.

And I even said my big issue is not making an effort to mark spoiler territory better. Th Bombcast is a product and I support the business behind it with my dollars. I'm not asking the world to revolve around my busy schedule but I am giving feedback as a customer. I get to do that and you have little place to tell me otherwise. Welcome to counter with your own points, most of which I have think are valid to a point.

I was mostly pointing out that A) the world isn't set to your sensitivities, everyone gets to care about what they care about and guck the rest where they are concerned and B) the argument of "you were warned" is a little flawed because if I get the podcast from an app with no show notes, without time stamps, a spoiler means skipping whatever remains of the podcast or assuming 15 minutes is far enough to skip. Yes I can avoid the spoilers but then the rest of the podcast is sorta ruined. I pay to support content like that.

Two weeks is very soon to spoiler the end of a fuckin' game. You not caring does not change that. Waiting two more weeks doesn't take away the content you are looking for, especially if the podcasters can avoid constantly cock teasing.

I also suggested alternatives which you ignored so you could continue to go on and on about how spoilers shouldn't matter and there's no reason to avoid them to an extent in a podcast intended to generally discuss the industry on a weekly basis.

Especially in this case where no one else had experienced this content and so little or no discussion of real substance could come of it, and when it sounds like the point could have been made easily without such a significant spoiler.

I'd be happy with slightly better spoiler warnings so I could enjoy as much of the podcast as possible even though they decided to spoil a game I care about buying am too busy to play at the moment. Most of us don't have unlimited time to play games the week they come out.

I'm fine with discussing ending spoilers, but put that into a separate podcast so people who are interested can opt in, rather than making people pull out their phones to skip. Shit's annoying. Or hell, edit it out but still offer the full version for those who don't care.

ps: I'll be skipping Peter Brown casts if he can't control himself. Brad used to have this problem, but he's reigned himself in. You can discuss games without going in-depth with spoilers, especially regarding the ending lol. I question someone's intelligence if they can't convince me that I should read a certain novel without having to spoil the ending.

I think most people who are saying 'lol spoilers' just don't care about Nier. If Jeff spoiled Horizen's ending or Dan spoiled MGSV, people would have stormed the gates demanding a edited version. Or hell, Persona 5's looming. Should the ending of an 80 hour game be spoiled 2 weeks after release in a regular Bombcast?

TLDR: Don't make people have to pull out their phones and skip ahead 2 minutes. That's horseshit. Nobody wants to do that. Just offer an edited version or make spoilercasts.

@mcfart: No it isn't just people who don't care about the games in question. I'm dying to play Persona 5 right now but you could come in here and tell me the ending to that game and I wouldn't bat an eye at it. If anything I'd probably be more excited to understand how said spoilers come about.

The Friendcast actually did this recently when they spoiled something in the middle of the podcast (which they very rarely do). Wooly edited in a bit with him giving a warning and a time stamp for when the spoilers stop. So I don`t think it`s insane for the Bombcast to do it too.

When they do longer spoiler discussions they also tag them on at the end of the podcast so that they are easily avoided which I really appreciate.

@luchalma: sounds like he just didn't want to play the game and backed out of a deal. Doubt the spoiler was that a big of a deal.

Funnily enough Peter's spoiler actually made me buy the game and see the entire thing for myself. I know what happens now but I wanna see how it manifests, how it fits in the story and all of that stuff. I find that spoilers do this to me more and more after years of being bummed by them.

They tag the topics of discussion on the podcast. Don't want spoilers? Bail out.

If knowing what happens in the last two minutes of a game ruins the experience, the it likely wasn't an experience worth having. I applaud Peter for having the attitude that they're on a darn video games podcast, so why not talk about some darn video games.

@mcfart: I care about Nier a lot and I'm still saying 'lol spoilers'.

I get that jeff goes hard on the "theres no such thing as spoilers" line but if you don't recognize the beauty and merit of a twist on expectations you're fucking dead inside duders. Have you never tried to show someone something surprising without ruining the surprise? Have you never opened your eyes to the appeal of a well told story that has unexpected turns? What on hell is wrong with you?

There's an implicit pact here with Giant Bomb content. Over and over again they say "no, its too early to spoil it". That builds an expectation that you can tune into a podcast with the game you want to play in its topic list like a week after the game's release and not being hovering over the stop button every step of the way.

I agree with the OP on its premise.

@ultimategamer69: except there were literally no story spoilers. Peter just talked about a mechanic. And yeah, the mechanic would be surprising if you didn't know about it, but then so would any mechanic in any game. Is mentioning specific upgrades in, say Watch Dogs 2, that don't appear until late game a spoiler? Is talking about a boss mid game in Bloodborne a spoiler? If so how do you talk about the game? Further I'd say if learning about a thing in advance can ruin your enjoyment of a thing then it's probably a pretty shallow thing in the first place.

I'll be honest, I don't even remember what they said, and rarely remember what was said on the podcast after its finished.

Spoilers do not dictate my enjoyment of something...

They should put a 30 second long alarm bell that's 10dB higher than the rest of the podcast letting you know that there's a spoiler coming up and give everyone who accidentally heard the spoiler a $50 Steam gift card and an OTPHJ.

This is not what happened in this case. I don't see why you consume any media related to a game you might wanna play if you are rather sensitive to spoilers.

If there would be a movie or game I would want to experience all by myself I wouldn't read/listen/watch content related to that one at all.

The thing is there is a middle ground between going in completely blind and knowing the endgame stuff. I listen to the Bombcast to find out whether or not I am interested in playing a game by listening to what the duders are saying about it.

I am pretty big on not getting stuff spoiled for me or spoiling for others. Some moments can be really great when you go into them unknown. With that said, nothing of what Peter said seemed like a huge deal and it just made me want to play the game more. I literally didn't give a shit about the game, but am thinking about getting it now after that conversation.

@mcfart: i fast forwarded the podcast 3 min, took like 2 seconds. tbh i probably woudn't give a shit anyway.

I've listened to this episode and generally care about spoilers, but I have no idea what he spoiled. Is this one of those cases where you already have to know what happened to consider it a spoiler?

@opusofthemagnum: Yeah but the "avoid all spoilers period" montra is something not everyone agree's with. Especially as it relates to a discussion about games. I'm sure the mindset heading in was this is a game with multiple endings, and hours upon hours of content. There is a lot here for people to play and experience themselves. They were selling how crazy the game is, and took a particular point in the game to do so, and provided spoiler warnings. I get that it's inconvenient for people, but again it's not really that big of a deal. Not enough to go back and edit a cast imo like the OP suggests.

Keep in mind how many people here have stated they may go purchase the game after hearing that. The GB crew was great about not spoiling really story heavy games. Gone Home is a perfect example of that. Each game is given a fair amount of thought before you go into talk about spoilers, but at the end of the day it's still a discussion about what is in a game, and some spoilers are pretty much always to be expected.

While I was coming off a bit aggressive, I think it's more how hard people rally behind the "spoiler free" aspect of discussion about something without realizing how much that limits the discussion. Yes, it sucks to have to hear spoilers when they bother you, and yes of course you'd like to be more apart of a discussion on something regardless if spoilers bug you or not, but there seems to be a disconnect here from people like you who don't recognize that enough of us don't give a shit about spoilers that a certain point the onus on you. Period.

@devise22: OP here, I was definitely too aggressive in my kneejerk argument but I think at the end of it, what was done on the Bombcast was still absolutely the wrong thing to do.

Yes, there is spoiler tolerance for different types of games, mechanical spoilers are something I don't feel exist, but this is a narrative based game that often uses shifting of mechanics to provide a meaningful narrative punch

And what he spoiled was the ultimate ending

Compare to Superhot, a game that everyone has talked about the ending moments to being fantastic, and I STILL don't know what happens.

This is because there are obviously people on staff that believe the surprise of playing it would be better, and the staff didn't care as heavily about Nier spoilers. On top of that, Superhot is only 2 hours long, Nier pushes 50-60

As game industry professionals im sure that they are informed that one of the main draws of Nier is the narrative, and the gradual shifting of mechanics. This is something that can be discussed in great detail among the first 30 hours of the game. Hell, even the first five hours.

I don't understand how in conversation, having played the whole game, one would find it important to spoil the ultimate ending of a new release when there were countless alternate routes of discussion that would have gotten to the same point about this appealing aspect of the game.

There is a difference of certain spoilers to be had but this is not one, even with the appropriate spoiler warnings, which were in fact not as appropriate as has been stated because the text warning was not even on the RSS feed i listened to the podcast from.

A lot of people in here seem to be under the impression that appropriate, meaningful discussion of games cannot be done in a manner that doesn't contain spoilers and i understand where you are coming from, but if we are painting spoilers being on a spectrum this one is a flashing red "DO NOT SPOIL" sign. It is a moment that is only going to reveal itself to those that have already completed the entire game. Would it not be more efficient to discuss mechanics a new player will encounter? Again, the ending mechanical twist is one of which there are countless examples of all throughout the game

And the game is still fantastic and worth playing for anyone, but I still do not see anyone's argument that this was an acceptable thing to do on the Bombcast, outside of a special circumstance such as a spoilercast or GOTY discussion.

I am absolutely not someone who is generally sensitive to spoilers, but it's hard to see this as not crossing a certain line.

Just because a majority are unoffended by it does not mean the opinions of the parties that ARE offended do not matter, especially when multiple of us here are long-term paying subscribers

You are likely going to be less offended at a lack of endgame spoilers on the Bombcast than we are going to be receiving spoilers for a game we are heavily passionate about the narrative of.

Why is the idea of just skipping ahead after a warning not acceptable?

For reference, what he spoiled was the game's ending gimmick. Not the story beats itself but the mechanics at play.

In my case the warning given was sufficient...I skipped past it without a problem. Of course that's a matter of circumstance: I've definitely been burned in other cases (not GB).

Hopefully Jeff / Brad see this and can be more careful in the future esp. with what guests say (I haven't had any issue like this with what the crew themselves say in a long time). Well, I also think recently they've had too many guests which IMHO make for the worst episodes. With respect to spoilers the Bombcast should probably stick to roughly the same level you'd allow in a review. Having skipped over this instance, I don't know whether what Peter said meets that criterion or not.

Personally I agree that in-depth discussion of a game (spoilers or not) is better split-out into separate content to make it easier for people to pick-and-choose what type of discussion they want to hear at a given point in time.

I've been almost completely skipping the "What you been playing" parts of the Bombcast, and the Beastcast this whole year. Just because almost every game I've been interested in this year has been story driven or something I want to experience for myself.

@secondpersonshooter: You keep saying he spoiled the ultimate ending, but all he did was mention a mechanical thing that happens during the credits. He didn't mention any character names or story beats and I don't remember him even specifying that it only happens during the final credits. Honestly, until this thread, I thought it was something that happened during every one of the endings and was just a weird thing with no real connection to the rest of the game. It really seems like Peter tried to explain it in pretty mechanical terms specifically so he didn't spoil the story stuff that leads up to it. So what did he spoil because nothing he said gave away anything about the story or what happens in it's final moments?

this.

this

Yo man, any time they start talking about a game I'm interested in, I skip ahead. I have been listening to the bombcast for years, and have always done that too. They're not screaming in your ear, and you have the power to not listen to them. Plus, the bit you're talking about makes no since without context.

Of course. The only thing you get from a game\film\book\whatever is the experience and if you can't get that first hand then there is no point to them.

Wait, some of you guys don't think mechanics can be spoilers? Story beats are often much less interesting to me than clever uses of mechanics, and Taro has a record of doing cool stuff within the game you play to convey his message. It was absolutely a big spoiler, for a very interesting event that ties into the philosophical narrative he's been spinning since Drakengard 1. I'm actually MORE interested in keeping mechanics like that a surprise in his games, than any of the story beats which are much more predictable anyways.

There's perhaps an argument that the only people who would realise what a big deal it was were old time fans of the franchise, but doesn't that also just mean they are the ones that would be hurt by being spoiled the most as well?

It's early but I don't know I think that's on you. If they put a warning in the notes, did an audio warning, and a video warning, then I think it's your fault for listening to it at that point. I can understand having it in the background and not paying attention but I think that's just an unfortunate thing that happened and the content creators did everything they could to warn you.

I agree with the OP on this one. It was a really unnecessary spoiler and i'm so glad I beat the game before hearing it. I've been pretty disappointed with Giantbomb's overall coverage of this game. It's been one of the most interesting games to discuss in a long time and we've had a pretty misrepresentitive quick look and then blurting out one of the key moments of the game on a podcast. It's been cool having chats with other Bombers about it but a bit of support from the staff would have been cool. I think this is a fairly niche game and it kind of lives and dies on that kind of support. I understand they can't cover EVERYTHING though, and a lot of noteworthy stuff has come out lately, also.

@kingbonesaw: Agreed! It's the only sensible solution.

I don't like spoilers either. During podcasts I'll skip forward if the game is something I really want to play. I have let some podcast spoilers play because my backlog is so long I will forget the spoiler by the time I get to that game.

I thought it was a bit much, but not a huge deal really.

People generally read at least a few posts in a thread before they comment but hey, it's a free internet!

That spoiler made me more interested in the game to be honest. But if it is something you are already planning on playing I can see it being a pretty big annoyance. That's how I felt about the BoTW QL. Dan gave away so many details that didn't need to be said. He showed pictures of crazy late game stuff for no reason other than he was too excited to control himself. I'm not going to go make a thread about how that QL needs to be amended or better labeled, I'm just going to accept the loss. I think that's what any reasonable person should do if something gets spoiled in a non malicious way.

I'm actually tired of them refusing to talk about certain parts/mechanics of games weeks after they come out (Zelda comes to mind). It's a video game podcast and I want to hear them talk about the video games, which sometimes includes cool stuff parts that make me want to play them.

@el_tajij: You should read Jim Sterling's review. He's had a lot of great things to say about it, and pushed it pretty hard on his podcast--spoiler free too ; )

@el_tajij: Alex has also had a 'Please play NIER' segment on every Beastcast since.

At the very least I wish they'd be more consistent about spoilers on the bombcast.

Regardless of whether or not you think spoilers matter it's incredible to me that so many people don't understand why it would to someone. Do people really need to argue why learning about something before you experience it yourself matters to them? Not caring yourself is one thing (to each their own) but getting angry at people who do seems so unreasonable.

That said I'm mostly ok with the way the crew give warnings before diving into spoilers. Wish it were easier to skip ahead without risking a spoiler or going too far and missing other discussions but eh...

Also worth noting that I'm poor and can't afford most games I'm interested in at release. That and with my general bias towards quality narratives in games you can see why I have to be so careful around podcasts and online discussions.

Spoilers are the work of Satan himself. The middle part of video games where you play them are bullshit (or maybe horseshit, it's hard to say), and the only reason you play any of them is to see that sweet 20 second cutscene at the end. So, when people spoil it, then you ruin the entire experience forever!

I mean, everyone knows that it's about the destination, not the journey, right?

/s, obviously.

actually contributing Edit: When Undertale came out, everyone was all like "you should play this", and I was like "why?", and they were like "lol spoilerz!" So, I didn't play it for a while. But, eventually, I just looked up what the spoilers were, and went "oh, ok, so there is something here", and decided to play it.

As I played the game, I noticed all the deliberately placed build-up to that spoiler, all the Chekov's Guns and discreet references and innocuous dialogue, and when I got to the end and saw how it all played out, I was blown away. I think I appreciated it a lot more than if I had gone in blind, because I knew it was building up the whole time.

Now, that said, I can see having spoilers foisted on to you unexpectedly is maybe not great. But, I do appreciate hearing people talk about it, so if we're not going to get spoilercasts, then I guess during the Bombcast is the next best thing.

Now, that said, I would be happy if this conversation never, ever happened ever again:

Brad: "So, there is one thing I wanted to talk about."

Jeff: "Oh, you mean... that thing?"

Brad: "Yeah... I mean, it's only been out three weeks..."

Jeff: "Ummm..."

Brad: "Actually, yeah, let's not talk about it."

Either spoil, with warnings, or don't bring it up!

@pkmnfrk: the point you're missing in your facetious prelude is that knowing the destination lessens the adventure of the journey

I understand why people are not into spoilers. What I don't understand is, if you are so spoiler sensitive, why the fuck are you listening to people talk about the game in the first place?

If the idea is to find out if the game is good, go check metacritic, you don't need to listen to a discussion.

If you're a long time fan of the series and you're gonna play it anyway, just go play it, you don't need to listen to a discussion.

If you already know that people think it's good and you know you're going to play it, but you really don't want to know anything about it, you do not need to listen to a discussion.

It's really easy to just skip past sections of a podcast, of better still, don't listen to the podcast at all.

Just don't really see it that way at all.