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    Nioh

    Game » consists of 5 releases. Released Feb 07, 2017

    A historical action game loosely based on the story of English samurai William Adams, as he helps slay the yokai that infest Sengoku-era Japan while hunting down a malicious alchemist.

    Nioh is fantastic, but I do have some minor annoyances

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    Zevvion

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    #1  Edited By Zevvion

    Let me prefix this by saying I could be totally wrong about most of these. It has been my experience so far, but perhaps I am overlooking something. Would like to know if so.

    Respec
    Edit: Can buy it from the Blacksmith and you also get one in the third zone from a submission.
    I'm in the third zone, I have no idea how many zones there are, but I feel like this is probably a decent chunk into the game at least. I've never encountered the respec item anywhere in the game itself even though I am very thorough searching every corner. You can buy it from the Teahouse for 800 Glory, which is a fairly high amount. It means they gated respecing behind the online modes (fighting revenants or doing co-op) and require you to do a fair bit of it before you can buy any. I don't like that because my build is not very refined at all since this is my first playthrough. I already wasted countless skill points on pointless moves, not to mention, though pretty okay, I am not speced efficiently.

    Obtuse crafting
    I realize you can talk to the lady to clarify a few things, but it doesn't really help in some cases. First, when using high quality materials you have a better chance of obtaining a weapon of that rarity type (uncommon, rare, exotic) to the point where if you use all exotic materials, you have 35% chance to get an exotic. Fine. But the way it's worded is super weird. Then inheritance, I have an inheritable skill on a max familiarity weapon and want to put it on another weapon but it says it won't do it. Why? Beats me. According to the lady it should be possible. The base weapon doesn't have an inheritable skill yet so it should be able to be applied. Then there is the 'upgrades' to the blacksmith herself. It is hidden in her dialogue tree under 'request' something. How do I get more of those upgrade points anyway? No idea.

    Transmog unlocks
    I wish you could just buy a transmog look (even if it was for more money than usual) and then be able to apply it to any item you want for no additional cost. At some point, gold becomes rare and transmog becomes not worth it. I'm running around with a piece of paper in front of my face now wearing a wizard hat because it costs too much to look cool.

    Character creator
    Maybe this is inspired by some work of fiction I don't know about like The Witcher is, but otherwise I don't think they justify having no character creator at all. Why can't I play as a black dude? Why can't I play as a lady? Seems like the game would benefit from it. You can buy those skins from the Teahouse anyway, so you can buy as different characters. Why not let me just create my own? Heck, gate it behind a certain amount of Glory for each feature you want to change, I don't care. Just give me an option to do it.

    Skill tree
    I am not even as frustrated with it as most people are, but come on, be a little more transparent about what I need exactly to buy a certain skill. Complete Mission: ??? is not an informative thing to see for over 12 hours now on only a second-tier skill (of like six tiers). You don't have to give me the name, but at least tell me if that mission is in my current zone, if so or if in a past zone, tell me exactly which one instead of having me check which mission I didn't complete yet. Tell me the what stats I need to get it too. It seems that stuff is also gated behind that, but there is no way to check until you reach it it seems like. Dark Souls was not this obtuse.

    I think that's it. Otherwise, I am enjoying Nioh tremendously. It will no doubt be in my top 5 if not top 3 this year. And I only say that because this year is going to be bonkers with Andromeda, Destiny 2, State of Decay 2, South Park and possibly For Honor.

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    Efesell

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    #2  Edited By Efesell

    The blacksmith sells a respec book for 10k gold.

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    Ares42

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    #3  Edited By Ares42

    You can buy respec at the smith for 10k gold. Or at least the first one costs that, dunno if it stays that way.

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    Zevvion

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    @ares42: @efesell: Thanks, did not know that. It's too much though, I am already scrapping for gold. I'll just do some co-op and buy it with Glory.

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    Efesell

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    How are you spending so much gold? It just seems kinda worthless to me, sitting on over 200k.

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    Ares42

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    @efesell: Gold goes quickly if you try to make some optimal gear. However I'd still say grinding 10k gold should be WAY quicker than 800 glory.

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    Shindig

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    I wish the mission ratings actually made sense. There's a big disparity between the base enemies and the actual boss difficulty.

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    CJduke

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    @zevvion: Apparently the main character was a real person (my friend told me this). He has a wikipedia page, William Adams. He was an English navigator who was the first of his nation to reach Japan. Numerous novels have been based on his life, so that's why you play as him. I believe some of the other characters were real people too (Hanzo I believe).

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    Zevvion

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    @efesell said:

    How are you spending so much gold? It just seems kinda worthless to me, sitting on over 200k.

    Forging and Soul Matching gear costs insane amounts at some point. I just have very good weapons, better than anything else I'm finding or getting as rewards.

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    Efesell

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    @cjduke said:

    @zevvion: Apparently the main character was a real person (my friend told me this). He has a wikipedia page, William Adams. He was an English navigator who was the first of his nation to reach Japan. Numerous novels have been based on his life, so that's why you play as him. I believe some of the other characters were real people too (Hanzo I believe).

    Most of the people are historical, although Hanzo would already be dead by this time.

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    LawGamer

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    I agree with most of your points. Specifically to the skill tree:

    1) I think there needs to be an easy way of seeing whether a skill is going to transfer to other weapons. I'd rather spend a point on something that gives me utility on several weapons than a point that is only going to be good for one. You can't always tell by the name either - the ki pulse dodge works for all your weapons, but you need to purchase the various kicks and parries individually.

    2) I'd really appreciate some sort of zoom feature. Having to scroll through a bunch of stuff without being able to see how it fits together is kind of annoying.

    3) I'd also like it if the skills were a little more sorted by stance than they are. For example, I've currently been rocking dual swords in low stance so I'd like to focus on those types of skills. But they're scatted all over the skill tree. Just some sort of option to highlight the skills in the menu would be nice.

    Other than that the thing that is really bumming me out right now is the inventory system. You pick up so much crap and the sorting options are virtually useless. I've been trying to keep the "best" version of each type of weapon on me as I go through levels, but then I need to spend a ton of time bumming though my inventory to find stuff. It's particularly obnoxious with weapons, since you can't sort by type. Is this spear better than my current spear? I don't know! I guess I'll need to scroll through this 50 item list and look. And because you can only compare things to your currently equipped weapons, you can't even lock one in and look through the rest of the list if it isn't equipped.

    This is seriously making me tear my hair out.

    @zevvion said:
    @efesell said:

    How are you spending so much gold? It just seems kinda worthless to me, sitting on over 200k.

    Forging and Soul Matching gear costs insane amounts at some point. I just have very good weapons, better than anything else I'm finding or getting as rewards.

    Have you purchased any of the Patronage upgrades to make things cheaper? The bonuses aren't that big, but I'd assume that even 2% is a significant raw amount of gold late game.

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    Efesell

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    I must have just gotten good weapon rolls because I've been hard pressed to forge a better sword than the one I got from the Warrior of the West.

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    ripelivejam

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    i too would love improved inventory nanagement. even at this early stage i got a BUNCH of crap. just one button press to break down all whites then sell.

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    Zevvion

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    @cjduke: Yeah, I guess. I just don't see it being that core to the actual game than in The Witcher for instance. I don't really feel like I am experiencing a story as that character here. I think the game would benefit from more diverse characters like Souls.

    @lawgamer:I only had three patronage upgrade points and spend them on sweet beards and such. Can't seem to find info (in the game itself) on how to acquire more patronage points. I circumvent the inventory system by just dismantling everything except the stuff I'm wearing and a couple of weapons which have good inheritance skills.

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    Efesell

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    I just immediately reverted to Diablo rules of leaving shit on the ground if it doesn't seem immediately better or unique.

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    Zevvion

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    @efesell: You need those upgrade materials for forging. Alternatively, you can sell it or get Amrita for it.

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    Ares42

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    @lawgamer: I dunno how much you've played yet, but don't worry too much about gear. Keeping stuff around "in case" is pretty much pointless, as unless you plan on using it right away you'll probably find something higher level in a mission or two. I've found the best way to approach it is to sort weapons by "ability" (which is basically weapon class), then you can easily scroll to the class you want to use and see if you've gotten anything better. As for the stats, most of it is fairly insignificant unless you get a really lucky roll, so going for levels (high base attack/defense) is usually better. Even if you get that one perfectly rolled item it's gonna get out-levelled fairly quickly, and trying to keep it relevant with soul-merging becomes expensive really fast.

    The only things that are really worth paying attention to is your accessories as they can have a wide variety of useful stats, and also do a quick scroll through your new weapons to see if there's any really good inheritance abilities.

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    Efesell

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    @zevvion said:

    @efesell: You need those upgrade materials for forging. Alternatively, you can sell it or get Amrita for it.

    The forge has only disappointed me and it doesn't seem like you get nearly enough amrita from offerings to make the hassle worth it.

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    Zevvion

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    @efesell: The set armors are pretty damn good and you effectively have to keep forging to get exotics from them. You don't get a ton of Amrita, but it is 'free' is really easy to sell it all.

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    Fredchuckdave

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    #20  Edited By Fredchuckdave

    800 Glory is one co-op session.

    Crafting is sort of obtuse but it's just because optimal gear is very difficult to define right now and will probably take a few months to flesh out at least. You can totally ignore the crafting system and do fine though.

    Transmog is cheap throughout. Of course if you want to level a weapon from like 80 to 140 its 1.5 million+

    Strength of the narrative (which is surprisingly strong) would go down with a character creator, also the emphasis on historicity means they wanted an actual dude.

    Skill tree is all Dojo missions, you'll unlock them over the course of the game.

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    OurSin_360

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    #21  Edited By OurSin_360

    A lot of systems are a bit obtuse but its not as bad as dark souls in that department, without wiki i probably would never have gotten into dark souls at all. Im still on the second mission so i don't know how rare stuff gets but so far prices seem reasonable.

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    Zevvion

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    800 Glory is one co-op session.

    You are having a ton of luck with randoms then. Everyone I join dies within 3 minutes, which gives me around 50 Glory each time.

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    redyoshi

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    #23  Edited By redyoshi

    Only real problem I have is kind of how armor works. Since there's armor set bonuses, I don't want to bother with anything that drops from random enemies, but thus far there haven't been many armor sets available. I think I'm just about to wrap up Chugoku, about to fight a boss there, but I haven't found any other light armor blueprints to replace the Tactician set I got from one of the Kanbei missions. So far I've just been soul matching or forging new copies of that same set, and disassembling everything else. It kind of makes loot drops meaningless to me.

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    Zevvion

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    @redyoshi: The set bonuses are really nice, but you can't keep Soul Matching that stuff. I tried, you'll run out of gold. You're better off just equipping whatever until you're in like zone 3 or so.

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    ivdamke

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    #25  Edited By ivdamke

    I generally don't have issues with the things you said except the unlock requirements for skill trees. The Novice ones act as tutorials but they come far to late to be of any use teaching a player they need to be available from the start of each zone not the end.

    My biggest complaints are aesthetic and somewhat subjective. I dislike how every mission is dark or caked in orange, I'm sure there's some lore reason but to be honest I've not paid attention to any of the story much like Souls games. The other major gripe I have are levels are too flat, this game screams for jumping and running around on rooftops like Tenchu. I really hope this game becomes a franchise and they can expand on it a bit more in terms of level and world design, possibly with more character interaction as well.

    Another issue I take is I generally don't like the randomised loot. I found myself doing Region 2 and now nearly 3 in their entirety without even checking my inventory because it's so much busywork. It also has a negative effect on exploration in that sure there's a chest around that corner, but whatever it's probably a bunch of whites and some salt. Even when a purple drops I treat it the same it doesn't excite me or entice me I just explore out of habit/Kodamas.

    The final major gripe is the AI is designed with a Souls design philosophy. The problem with this is Team Ninja lifted the player characters execution limits that Souls games have and allowed the player to ascend well above the AIs means. I'm just about done with the third area so I may be speaking too soon but so far the game is generally a pushover. The more you level the less concern being precise with your ki-pulses, flux and parries become and each skill tree generally becomes overpowered to the point where you can just brute through. That being said Souls games weren't immune to this issue either so I can take it or leave it.

    Overall though it's a really good game, it's done what I hoped Bloodborne was going to do in advancing the combat system a significant amount but also retaining the character progression in a way that's meaningful (neither of which BB did well). I'm looking forward to the PvP introduction with the clan system they've got going, there might be some legs in that if it works well. Though the downside is I bet only about 100 people own the game in my country so it will probably be a mess of latency for me.

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    Zevvion

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    @ivdamke: I was extremely disappointed with Bloodborne, but if you want to call any game a pushover, that one is it, not Nioh. Yeah, dying on a boss doesn't necessarily mean it is a difficult boss, but at least I died on most of Nioh's bosses 2-8 times whereas there were only 3 or so in Bloodborne that I did not beat first try.

    I do feel like Nioh is a bit easier than the average Souls game, but I don't think 'pushover' applies. There are a couple of moments that are pretty tough and you won't get passed anything if you only pay half-attention. It demands you to have some type of skill at least.

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    Captain_Insano

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    @cjduke said:

    @zevvion: Apparently the main character was a real person (my friend told me this). He has a wikipedia page, William Adams. He was an English navigator who was the first of his nation to reach Japan. Numerous novels have been based on his life, so that's why you play as him. I believe some of the other characters were real people too (Hanzo I believe).

    Yep. I definitely recommend James Clavell's book "Shogun" which is a work of historical fiction roughly based on Tokugawa Ieyasu and William Adams. A fun read.

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    ivdamke

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    @zevvion: Are you past Region 3? Because the only boss I've died to more than once so far is the water boss and that was mostly due instant kills in the water and an oddity of getting instant kill lasered as soon as the game faded out of black before I had control. I would say about 40-50% of my deaths have been from falls but I'm hopeful the back end of the game ramps up the challenge a bit.

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    Shindig

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    #29  Edited By Shindig

    What you get out of Nioh's bosses depends on how you fight souls bosses in general. Notable coward DarkSydePhil had an easy time of the first few bosses as well and he's a player that very much gives the boss tons of space and pokes away when the one safe moment arises. On the other hand, I'm looking to get things done quickly and so many of the early bosses I've seen like you to keep your distance and not engage in close-quarters combat.

    In contrast, my close-quarters temperament makes short work of regular enemies.

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    Zevvion

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    #30  Edited By Zevvion

    @ivdamke said:

    @zevvion: Are you past Region 3? Because the only boss I've died to more than once so far is the water boss and that was mostly due instant kills in the water and an oddity of getting instant kill lasered as soon as the game faded out of black before I had control. I would say about 40-50% of my deaths have been from falls but I'm hopeful the back end of the game ramps up the challenge a bit.

    I'm wrapping up the third zone now I think. It's great that you have been able to finish most of the bosses first try, but I think you're probably an outlier there.

    @shindig I do almost everything close quarters. I really hate the extremely cautious playstyle. I'd much rather iframe my way through an attack than dash out too early and dash back in inefficiently.

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    ivdamke

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    Are you doing all the sub and twilight missions before moving on? I feel like the game grossly overleveled me for doing so. Or maybe I'm lucky with drops? I've certainly died a fair share in the levels though none of it felt like i was being overwhelmed but rather a single input mistake and then dead to a fall into water or usually a mistimed dodge against an axe oni.

    Deaths also feel much less punishing because of the scale of the levels you make back progress so quickly.

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    TobbRobb

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    @ivdamke said:

    Another issue I take is I generally don't like the randomised loot. I found myself doing Region 2 and now nearly 3 in their entirety without even checking my inventory because it's so much busywork. It also has a negative effect on exploration in that sure there's a chest around that corner, but whatever it's probably a bunch of whites and some salt. Even when a purple drops I treat it the same it doesn't excite me or entice me I just explore out of habit/Kodamas.

    This is my only genuine issue with the game, aside from it looking kinda bad visually. Overall I really like it, and I'll keep playing for sure. But it feels a little watered down when I'm just following a checklist, clear room, explore carefully, pick stuff up. This is the exact same loop I do in Souls, and it's still satisfying, but I reaaaaaally wish what I was picking up was ever anything I cared about instead of just more locks for skill points I don't need, consumables I don't use or trash loot that's gonna be worse than the boss/mission rewards... At least the Kodamas are fun to hunt for.

    Combat is super fun though so eh, it has ended up being a much better podcast game for me than Diablo was because I enjoy playing it more, but I also don't need to pay that much attention.

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    Efesell

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    @ivdamke said:

    Are you doing all the sub and twilight missions before moving on? I feel like the game grossly overleveled me for doing so. Or maybe I'm lucky with drops? I've certainly died a fair share in the levels though none of it felt like i was being overwhelmed but rather a single input mistake and then dead to a fall into water or usually a mistimed dodge against an axe oni.

    Deaths also feel much less punishing because of the scale of the levels you make back progress so quickly.

    I've been doing all of the sub missions and I think the difficulty is definitely having a very hard time keeping up. Have largely stopped needing any learning runs on bosses and just kinda heal through them for the most part. The Ii Naomasa sub mission is the only fight of late that's taken a number of tries.

    I don't think this is an especially huge problem though since it's still a lot of fun to play.

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    Shindig

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    I've only missed one sub mission so far. Actually beat the fourth boss at the first try although his gimmick makes it pretty easy to mess him up. I'm not soul matching armour, though. That seems good if you get a high-level weapon you're not going to use but still want the benefits of it.

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    Efesell

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    I died a few times on the Umi-Bozu because the very first encounter started with a laser the moment I took a few steps forward, which made me think it was some sort of puzzle fight since I had also been lightning those lamps throughout the level.

    So I died a couple times trying to solve a puzzle that wasn't there, the puzzle solution was just hit it with your sword a lot.

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    doctordonkey

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    I do not understand the complaints (not OP, specifically) about the lack of a character creator. Almost every single character in this game is a historical figure from medieval Japan. William motherfucking Adams is a total badass who lived one of the most interesting lives, who wouldn't want to play as him? This game has an actual story that would be irrelevant if they slapped a character creator in there and you just played as some random schmuck.

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    Zevvion

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    #37  Edited By Zevvion

    @doctordonkey: I guess I just don't feel drawn into the story at all. I love the setting, but I honestly don't get the sense that I'm playing as more than just 'some dude'. And when a game tells me I'm 'some dude', I'd rather make my own dude.

    I do think it's kinda cool they are trying to do this mythology history thing, I just wish it worked out better than it does.

    @ivdamke No, not really. I've only done one Twilight Mission. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me like they are 'daily's' almost. There are two of them I can do and they are Level 90 right now so I'm not attempting them. I'm not saying the game is hard, but it feels pretty OK to me. I can't really have a conversation with someone if I am in a new area with dudes I haven't fought yet. I need to pay attention to what I'm doing. It's not Diablo in the sense that you can have a second screen set up and barely even look at the game.

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    ivdamke

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    #38  Edited By ivdamke

    @efesell said:

    I don't think this is an especially huge problem though since it's still a lot of fun to play.

    Yea in the end this rings true so it's not too much of a problem.

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    nickhead

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    Soul Matching gets entirely too expensive too quick and crafting seems totally worthless to me. Using all high level materials and only getting 30ish percent chance of getting that type just feels pointless. You get so much loot anyway and can just fight Revenants for purple gear.

    Those are my minor grips though. It all comes down to gameplay and experimentation for me with Souls and there's enough here for that. Really liking this game.

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    Shindig

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    #40  Edited By Shindig

    I kinda wish the Twilight missions weren't on rotation. I'd rather tackle the Twilight versions of the earlier missions ASAP. Region 2's a notable step up and I'm a few levels behind it. Short levels, though but I really need the Kodama's to boost my elixir count.

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    Zevvion

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    @shindig said:

    I kinda wish the Twilight missions weren't on rotation.

    Yeah, same here. They are daily's aren't they? Like two a day? Or what is up with them?

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    pompouspizza

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    @shindig: I know! I was really gutted when I realised this was the case. I didn't do the first couple of Twilight missions even though I was a higher level than the recommended because I figured I could just could back to it, but when I loaded up the game today I had a level 70 one and I'm only level 39.

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    Efesell

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    My number one annoyance with this game is turning out to be archers/grenadiers.

    Like come on guys your combat is really fun why you gotta crap it up with irritants.

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    ivdamke

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    @efesell: with archery and throwables being so strong i just don't find them to be a problem. Kunais are amazing for disrupting ranged attacks and with ~25% unlimited ninjutsu you get a hell of alot of them.

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    Efesell

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    I mean that's part of my problem. They pose no actual threat they just annoy you.

    If they were placed to complement the level design it would be one thing but it's usually just like eh put an archer on that ledge so that you can't just fight something.

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    Humanity

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    @efesell: I feel your pain, as I recently got really annoyed by fighting whatever and having bombs thrown at me, but on the flipside if that bomb guy wasn't actually there most of the 1 on 1 combat is typically very easy once you get the hang of the game.

    What I find annoying, and this is a similar complaint I've had pretty much through all of the Souls games, is enemies that bridge the artificial skill gap between human players with extreme damage input. It's absolutely no fun for me to dance around a Yokai in a skillful manner nipping away at his health, only to miss one dodge and die from 2 axe hits. Or worse yet enemies that grapple you with an unbreakable animation that depletes 90% of a full life bar. None of that stuff is very fun to me. Make enemies tougher by giving them more patterns, more moves and abilities, don't make it so that a boring fight against a tank can result in my death from a single missed dodge.

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    Strathy

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    I love how it plays, but I think the entirety of the armour/weapon loot system is totally pointless and detrimental. The stats on things are so granular and random that all weapons function near identically to others of their core type. Even if you do go to the trouble of putting something complimentary together it'll end up under-leveled fairly quickly. The Dark Souls method of finding unique weapons and armour and upgrading them linearly was much more concise and satisfying.

    I just find myself spending way too much time surveying the burning trash fire of my inventory, looking for what might be better than what I'm using, and that isn't fun.

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    @strathy: I'm only in region 3 so far since I spent most of the weekend playing For Honor instead. But I'm gonna make a guess that trying to get optimal gear is much more of a post/late game thing. Kind of like Diablo. There isn't much point in thinking too hard about loot in D3 when you are leveling, just pick up whatever has the highest number until you get level 70. Then you try to optimize the build to do harder post-game content. So I might say just skim your inventory and pick the highest damage/defense for now up until the end. Hopefully by then the post-game is well designed enough to care about the gear. I personally enjoy just staring at worthless numbers so I'm gonna do some useless min/maxing anyways, but it's not hard to see why you woudn't want to. XD

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    Zevvion

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    @humanity: Is it possible you don't have proper gear and stats? It sounds like you're not dealing enough damage. The Yokai are also easier to kill by just dealing Ki damage and then unleashing a relentless combo when you can stagger them.

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    #50  Edited By sammo21

    You can't play a black guy because there were never any black, Western samurai. Your main character is based off a guy called William Adams who was one of the few white, Western samurai. While this game isn't trying to be historically accurate it is mixing Japanese mythology with real world characters to create a type of historical fiction.

    Also, yes, Dark Souls was incredibly obtuse about pretty much everything. You may not think so now but Demons Souls and Dark Souls were both stupid when it came to explaining anything other than some of the basic controls.

    I also think its weird to complain about transmogs on items when you're still going through the game. Transmog is for endgame stuff when you aren't swapping loot out all the time. I didn't transmog items into D3 until I was on Torment VII because I was swapping gear out so much. Basically, you're blowing your money and complaining about not having any money left. You also aren't done with the game so I think its weird to say that "its not worked out".

    @efesell They pose a threat if you aren't paying attention and you get into a fight with a Yokai or another human.

    @ivdamke This, and the loot, is where they get their real inspiration from Diablo 3. Warframe and Diablo both have mechanics where you need to farm certain bosses for gear or specific mats. I also found that killing revenants gave me some of the same gear.

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