Alright guys, first of all, I love PC gaming, and I love using the mouse. It has so much more precision than any other gaming peripheral

One thing I feel that is missing from lots of PC games which has been in many other games since around 1997 is analog character movement. We're all still using WASD which is basically the same as the arrow keys we've been using forever.

What I'm thinking would be a good solution is this:

Get rid of the keyboard.

It works great for RTS games, and other tactical games, simply because you're not directly controlling a character on screen. But, for any game where you have direct control over a character, using WASD on the keyboard feels old and out of date.

The mouse is incredible for gaming, however, and as such has become more and more developed as time goes on.

My suggestion would be to develop a device with analog control to replace WASD, yet still keep WASD as an option for people who don't want to buy another peripheral.

I'd want to see something like a hybrid between an analog stick and a flight stick. Basically, something with buttons on or near the stick, so you can hit those buttons without taking your hand off the stick itself and so you can have an equivalent for Q, E, F, R, and other keys that are normally used in PC games. Also, instead of 8-directions, it'll be 360 degree movement that is much smoother like an analog stick, and more suited to moving a character.

What do you guys think?

I suppose there's something like this: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboards/g13-advanced-gameboard. I've never used one, but that's an analog stick on the side, and more than enough keys for gaming on the actual keyboard part of the device.

The Logitech G13 meets a number of these requirements. However it's very much an underdeveloped device. The initial drivers didn't even allow for proper use of the analog stick's axes, and instead only allowed for four binary directions like a d-pad. And to this day there's still no deadzone option. We need a company that's not Logitech to make one of these. And don't even get me started on the key placement or count. It's barely a proof of concept and is in serious need of a redesign. But I still use it everyday.
 
edit: And since Dark Souls is a total shit port, I had to go into the device manager and disable the G13's joystick driver just to make the game recognize regular 360 controllers, and I haven't re-enabled it yet.

@Ubersmake: The thing is, I'm not sure I could use an analog stick like that, without having a grip on something.

Maybe even if there was something like a nunchuck controller, but with a bunch of buttons on the back, that I could map for running, jumping, using items, reloading, etc, that might be okay.

If you need more than 8 directions to move, with 2 or 3 modifiers depending on the game, you're doing it wrong.

If you need more than 8 directions to move, with 2 or 3 modifiers depending on the game, you're doing it wrong.

@Ubersmake: The thing is, I'm not sure I could use an analog stick like that, without having a grip on something.

Maybe even if there was something like a nunchuck controller, but with a bunch of buttons on the back, that I could map for running, jumping, using items, reloading, etc, that might be okay.

I understand the need of an analog stick, so it'd be cool if there's a keyboard with an analog stick right at the wasd place. I just think that q,e,r,f,c,x,z, shift, and the number keys are essential to any gaming experience.

I've never come across a game where I feel like KB/M is the superior control scheme, but needs an analog stick. WASD works well enough for me on games that I play on the keyboard and I can't think of a solution that wouldn't feel awkward.

And I don't want to have to get used to another control scheme. I got used to the KB/M a few years ago and that took a long enough time, I got used to the Wii and that still sucks, I don't want any other gimmicky controller that doesn't provide any significant advantages beyond what I already use.

EDIT: I need to clarify that first sentence - I've never come across a KB/M dominated game where an analog stick would improve the experience. I've definitely come across games that play better on the keyboard and mouse. Like almost every FPS, ever, not to mention RTS games and such.

@MrKlorox said:

@Terramagi said:

If you need more than 8 directions to move, with 2 or 3 modifiers depending on the game, you're doing it wrong.

Show me one game with more than one speed modifier key.

Shift is typically run, Alt is typically walk.

Crouch is usually control, but sometimes C. I rebind those games.

@Terramagi: It's not so much a necessity, since the developers design around it, I'd just prefer it... mostly for better looking character animation. Any time you play a 3rd person game on the PC and you're moving with WASD, the character just looks goofy as hell, and having analog movement would fix some of that.

EDIT: I need to clarify that first sentence - I've never come across a KB/M dominated game where an analog stick would improve the experience.

@rebgav said:

@Vigorousjammer said:

@Ubersmake: The thing is, I'm not sure I could use an analog stick like that, without having a grip on something.

Maybe even if there was something like a nunchuck controller, but with a bunch of buttons on the back, that I could map for running, jumping, using items, reloading, etc, that might be okay.

Couldn't you use a PS Move Nav controller and map it to whatever you want with Xpadder or similar?

That might work, yeah. It'd be nice to have something similar to that, but with two triggers on the back of it though... this way I can have one for running and one for jumping, while still keeping my thumb on the stick itself.

@MrKlorox said:

@believer258 said:

EDIT: I need to clarify that first sentence - I've never come across a KB/M dominated game where an analog stick would improve the experience.

Battlefield 3 is one of these games. Being able to creep with an uneven footstep sound make sit easier to sneak up on people. And lining up your shot between a sliver in the environment is much easier. Full digital movement tends to make you move too far in one direction or the other, even when feathering.

But a) that's not something that would happen very often, b) if it does you're not frantically running from anyone, so c) you can crouch or go prone and get those minute movements you really need in less than half a second. You're probably going to be crouched in such a situation anyway, just to get a more accurate shot.

@rebgav said:

@Vigorousjammer said:

@Ubersmake: The thing is, I'm not sure I could use an analog stick like that, without having a grip on something.

Maybe even if there was something like a nunchuck controller, but with a bunch of buttons on the back, that I could map for running, jumping, using items, reloading, etc, that might be okay.

Couldn't you use a PS Move Nav controller and map it to whatever you want with Xpadder or similar?

That might work, yeah. It'd be nice to have something similar to that, but with two triggers on the back of it though... this way I can have one for running and one for jumping, while still keeping my thumb on the stick itself.

Wii Nunchuk in left hand, mouse in the other. Problem solved!

@MrKlorox said:

@believer258 said:

EDIT: I need to clarify that first sentence - I've never come across a KB/M dominated game where an analog stick would improve the experience.

Battlefield 3 is one of these games. Being able to creep with an uneven footstep sound make sit easier to sneak up on people. And lining up your shot between a sliver in the environment is much easier. Full digital movement tends to make you move too far in one direction or the other, even when feathering.

But a) that's not something that would happen very often, b) if it does you're not frantically running from anyone, so c) you can crouch or go prone and get those minute movements you really need in less than half a second. You're probably going to be crouched in such a situation anyway, just to get a more accurate shot.

So you want a nunchuck and a mouse? I don't see why that wouldn't work.

So you want a nunchuck and a mouse? I don't see why that wouldn't work.

Why fix something that isn't broken?

@MrKlorox said:

@believer258 said:

@MrKlorox said:

@believer258 said:

EDIT: I need to clarify that first sentence - I've never come across a KB/M dominated game where an analog stick would improve the experience.

Battlefield 3 is one of these games. Being able to creep with an uneven footstep sound make sit easier to sneak up on people. And lining up your shot between a sliver in the environment is much easier. Full digital movement tends to make you move too far in one direction or the other, even when feathering.

But a) that's not something that would happen very often, b) if it does you're not frantically running from anyone, so c) you can crouch or go prone and get those minute movements you really need in less than half a second. You're probably going to be crouched in such a situation anyway, just to get a more accurate shot.

A) It depends on your playstyle. It was pretty often for me. B) When frantically running, you use keys because of the shorter throw, like I said. C) They're not mutually exclusive, and crouching doesn't change your footstep pattern enough. Crouching does make you slower than walking, but everybody knows what crouched footsteps sound like. And you're often using both.

I still don't see a brand-new peripheral making much of a difference. But all right, personal taste.

@Jeff said:

Wii Nunchuk in left hand, mouse in the other. Problem solved!

Only two buttons? Besides, you could achieve the same effect with a 360 controller and get an additional d-pad, analog stick click, and select button. Or a PS3 controller and MotioninJoy. I guess now I'm saying that this is a possibility, just not one many people care about.

@MrKlorox: I didn't mean a Wii nunchuck. Surely one could be designed ergonomically with enough buttons to perform adequately. I mean modern controllers have 12 actual buttons on them (not including the d-pad or guide button), My mouse has 6 buttons, including lmb/rmb/mmb. So I'm sure you could fit another 5 + the analogue stick depression.

@MrKlorox: The thing is though, manipulating a controller face with your thumb, while only gripping the thing with the fingers of one hand could get kinda difficult, tiring or downright painful. I imagine designing something that can be gripped with half a hand while being moved about would be a nightmare to design.

I'm almost always ok with not having analogue movement. I never really need it except in games like Skyrim, and that's just for the sake of the aesthetic more than anything. I like having access to the keys surrounding WASD.

@MrKlorox: The thing is though, manipulating a controller face with your thumb, while only gripping the thing with the fingers of one hand could get kinda difficult, tiring or downright painful. I imagine designing something that can be gripped with half a hand while being moved about would be a nightmare to design.

@MrKlorox: What I mean is that you will be moving with the left hand, so you don't want to take your hand off the analogue stick to hit buttons. So basically they'd have to put the buttons on trigger grips or something for your fingers. Try holding a controller with just your thumb palm and knuckles. You'd have to hold it lightly so it doesn't depress the buttons, thus not giving you proper grip. I dunno man, just thinking out loud.

I don't see the reason for removing WASD, to be honest. I love using my game-pad (generally use it more often when possible), but the WASD key manipulations work just as well. I think it's becoming habitual to press W+A to move NW and etc, that adding a stick would only restart and annoying process of learning with minimal (if any) improved results.

@MrKlorox: I've actually never held a motion controller so I have no idea. I suppose they have hard pressure triggers on the buttons to prevent that sort of thing. Also the weight of the rumble gyros probably aren't helping my little test.

@Jeff said:

Wii Nunchuk in left hand, mouse in the other. Problem solved!

Only if I can shake the mouse.

@Canteu: I can see what you're saying about if there's too many buttons on the back. But also, just take a look at WASD, there's plenty of keys we use that are surrounding it (F, R, V, etc.) which force you to take your hand off of the movement controls, just like it would force you to take your thumb off the stick.

I'm sure they could curve a device in such a way for it to be ergonomically viable to have three buttons/triggers on the back, while still having a few face buttons on the front, not to mention a stick that can click in, so there's another button.

Two Novint Falcons.

@Vigorousjammer: Taking my index finger off the D key would only stop me moving to the right. I can still move forward. Taking your thumb off the stick stops you completely. No matter what I'm pressing, I will have at least 2 fingers on movement keys and the only thing that stops me moving forward is the 2 key. It's not really the same.

Its a catch 22, no one wants to make a device that wont sell, and no one will support a device that doesn't exist.

This is where Microsoft has done amazing things with their 360 gamepad, they created the game pad for the 360, getting it into peoples hands. Then they added the ability to easly get input from the gamepad with direct input. They supported their hardware with the software, and supplied that software to every programmer who used directx.

@Jeff said:

Wii Nunchuk in left hand, mouse in the other. Problem solved!

I was thinking this exact thing a long time ago. Seriously, a control scheme like this is superior.

G13 works just fine for me. Maybe Valve brings new stuff on the market.

You probably want something like the Razer Nostromo Expert Keypad. It's a controller that has 16 programmable keys and an 8-way directional thumb pad:

@CommanderZx2:

Something like that, but with a little analog circle pad like on the 3DS would be really cool, I think.

Some interesting solutions in this thread. I'll definitely give hybrid a try ( controller on one hand, mouse on the other ), though it'll be tricky since I generally use my left hand on mouse when gaming.

I really don't think Razer and Logitech's solutions work that well. They're essentially ergonomic keypads instead of proper analog add-ons.

But yeah, fingers crossed.

While I haven't tried it I can't help but think that the combination of analog stick + mouse would be very disorienting. Some of the beauty with WASD + mouse is that it's simplicity + complexity. When you're playing a first-person game with K+M most of your attention is going into your mouse movement, while your keyboard movement is more of a second-nature thing. If there was more nuance to it I just think it would detract your attention away from your mouse movement.

Using three fingers to control provides far more precision than one finger. I'll take WASD over analog stick any day because of that.

Replace keyboard keys with sticks, relearn how to type. Push in a direction for a letter.

http://www.gamegear.be/images/splitfish_frag_pro2.jpg

just get this i used it where i first got into pc. the mouse sucked but you can use any mouse with it. i dont really use it any more now ive got the keyboard down. and i just use a nostromo now. i only use the fragfx if it a third person game. digital moment when you can actually see your character just looks weird