Seems like the PC is just floundering now.  There's a handful of decent games on the horizon, mainly from outfits like Valve and Blizzard who have been traditionally been PC developers, but you just don't see the volume of games like the consoles have.  I love my PC and I do prefer to play games on it over consoles, I just wish it had better support .  I guess cost is the main issue as it's much easier for Joe Six Pack to go buy a 360 and few games, hook it up to his TV and start screaming like a moron on Xbox Live.  I think we're going to keep seeing less and less good games on the PC in the future.

My PC is not floundering. It reeks of awesome no matter how much I lay my dork on it. Maybe your PC is floundering but mine gives me plenty of comfort in the wee hours of the night. The PC will be dead when you can get terabytes of free porn on the Nintendo Dong.

I don't really feel that my pc is floundering. The games that I want to play are all coming to every platform, which ,means I will be able to play them with better controls, graphics, and online support.

I think the PC's current position (fairly bottlenecked, strangled a bit) puts it in the perfect place to bring back the innovation that put it on top in the first place. It's getting to the point where people either bitch and want more DRM (a la people who don't understand it'll all get cracked) or they man up and start doing some seriously cool stuff for the PC (as in Spore, Dark Horizon, Sins of a Solar Empire). Personally, I have only used my PC sparsely over the past 2 years or so, because It's pretty old, and I somehow managed to get invested in my 360. That doesn't mean I don't still support the PC though- I'm still active on several different games that I've played for years; but I think the platform is in need of a reneissance (can't beleive I spelled that right), and it's about to arrive.

Well, its going just fine for me. I'm not a hardcore gamer that needs to play a hundred games every month, so the big title that's released every few months suffices.

I think it's just fine, and nowhere the brink point.

However I do think that console innovation in the future may very well render the PC as obsolete. Consoles offer many advantages over the PC (convenience, price) but lacks many of the features of PC (mods, free online, solid controls for FPS and RTS games).

In the future, I see consoles overcoming those deficiencies and becoming the primary medium of gaming.  But that's in the future, definitely not this generation or the next generation.

That consoles lack the precision of PCs in regards to FPS controls is a bit of a misnomer. In the 8 years or so that the advent of console shooters has gone on, the skill gap between people playing those, and people playing PC games has largely come to a close.

That being said, the PC is still the only viable platform for an RTS. The consoles could be, but the manufacturers are ridiculously outdated when it comes to peripherals and mods (physical and software related). That's where the PC needs to start making a huge jump. The return of the Joystick.

Omg, im sick of these threads everyone keeps thinking the pc is failing. Its not!!! 

There are, and will always be, great games for the PC simply because of the huge back catalogue of games.  Digital download services are on the rise, so we're seeing a lot less boxed copies.  And with games like Spore, Sam and Max, Crysis Warhead, and not to mention all the cross-platform games, I think the PC is doing just fine.  It just seems like it's a bit of a lull, since there is a lot of hype around the consoles right now.

"...it's much easier for Joe Six Pack to go buy a 360 and few games, hook it up to his TV and start screaming like a moron on Xbox Live.
"

As a PC gamer i'd say the biggest problem with the platform is it has no immediate face to it. And by that i mean Xbox has Microsoft, Playstation has Sony and the Wii has Nintendo to back their consoles and have conferences for them at the likes of E3 an other gaming events.

The PC however has no one to actually say "well this year on the PC we intend to..." because all it has is developers who are more interested in flogging their games than to actually promote the platform. I think everyone can agree this years E3 conferences seemed to focus more on why you should buy the console than promote what good games are coming out on it.

There is also the fact that the PC has no genre to call its own as games from all genres can be found on both the PC and consoles. Ten years ago it used to be that consoles were better for platformers, fighting, racing and the odd flying sim game where as the PC was better at RPG, FPS, RTS and the MMO. But now its all mixed together and the PC has lost its solidarity to those genres. The current situation for gamers is that by owning only one platform you limit you're gaming experience.

We're also seeing more and more of the same type of games being released on the PC too, if it isn't another MMO with a fantasy setting its another FPS with flashy graphics and no real substance to the gameplay. As a gaming platform the PC is the most expensive and with the economy how it is globally at the moment i imagine most people aren't too inclined to drop a small fortune on building a new PC. The platforms hit a negative period, but hopefully we'll see it pick up again soon to prove its still a viable option to play games on.

Wrong, the PC still has the most announced exclusives and highly rated titles, games are merely shifting from the big names to more indie developers. Games like Zeno Clash represent the future of the PC. The PC has five times as many AAE titles than the 360 this generation.

@Vandalvideo: I just looked at some info on Zeno Clash, but I don't get it. How does that game represent the future of the PC? Did I miss something?

@Hamz  - That was an obvious allusion to Crysis, which, as anyone who has played it can confirm, has excellent gameplay.

Zeno Clash sadly enough looks like it might have a better control scheme if it used triggers as fists >.<

"As a PC gamer i'd say the biggest problem with the platform is it has no immediate face to it. And by that i mean Xbox has Microsoft, Playstation has Sony and the Wii has Nintendo to back their consoles and have conferences for them at the likes of E3 an other gaming events.

The PC however has no one to actually say "well this year on the PC we intend to..." because all it has is developers who are more interested in flogging their games than to actually promote the platform. I think everyone can agree this years E3 conferences seemed to focus more on why you should buy the console than promote what good games are coming out on it.

There is also the fact that the PC has no genre to call its own as games from all genres can be found on both the PC and consoles. Ten years ago it used to be that consoles were better for platformers, fighting, racing and the odd flying sim game where as the PC was better at RPG, FPS, RTS and the MMO. But now its all mixed together and the PC has lost its solidarity to those genres. The current situation for gamers is that by owning only one platform you limit you're gaming experience.

We're also seeing more and more of the same type of games being released on the PC too, if it isn't another MMO with a fantasy setting its another FPS with flashy graphics and no real substance to the gameplay. As a gaming platform the PC is the most expensive and with the economy how it is globally at the moment i imagine most people aren't too inclined to drop a small fortune on building a new PC. The platforms hit a negative period, but hopefully we'll see it pick up again soon to prove its still a viable option to play games on.
"

"@Vandalvideo: I just looked at some info on Zeno Clash, but I don't get it. How does that game represent the future of the PC? Did I miss something?
"

The only games im looking forward to are on PC, this generation of consoles didn't deliver imo...

I think steam is the way of the future for PC games or just dirrect downloads in general. It is affordable, stops piracy and is conveinient. I think that apps. like steam will help pave the way for the future of PC gaming.

The main problem of pc players is that thy are bieng known as some ego people who play games with a keyboard and that thy upgrade thier games and hardware along with the software so thy think that thy are very rich and stuff like that , but its wrong and besides comparing the pc to the counsols is like comparing an ant to to a tiger , nothing is better than the pc .

I put weed in my PC, so even web browsing is a euphoric experience.

"I put weed in my PC, so even web browsing is a euphoric experience."

The PC is fine and wil be for a long time. I stand by my statement.

There are plenty of games coming out for the PC, a quick look on play.com shows there's 57 games releasing this month that's hardly a few.  PC is far from dead!

There may only be a handful of high profile coming out this month but that doesn't mean the rest aren't going to be decent.

Go download the Mount and Blade beta and shut the hell up.

"As a PC gamer i'd say the biggest problem with the platform is it has no immediate face to it. And by that i mean Xbox has Microsoft, Playstation has Sony and the Wii has Nintendo to back their consoles and have conferences for them at the likes of E3 an other gaming events.

The PC however has no one to actually say "well this year on the PC we intend to..." because all it has is developers who are more interested in flogging their games than to actually promote the platform. I think everyone can agree this years E3 conferences seemed to focus more on why you should buy the console than promote what good games are coming out on it.

There is also the fact that the PC has no genre to call its own as games from all genres can be found on both the PC and consoles. Ten years ago it used to be that consoles were better for platformers, fighting, racing and the odd flying sim game where as the PC was better at RPG, FPS, RTS and the MMO. But now its all mixed together and the PC has lost its solidarity to those genres. The current situation for gamers is that by owning only one platform you limit you're gaming experience.

We're also seeing more and more of the same type of games being released on the PC too, if it isn't another MMO with a fantasy setting its another FPS with flashy graphics and no real substance to the gameplay. As a gaming platform the PC is the most expensive and with the economy how it is globally at the moment i imagine most people aren't too inclined to drop a small fortune on building a new PC. The platforms hit a negative period, but hopefully we'll see it pick up again soon to prove its still a viable option to play games on.
"

"Wrong, the PC still has the most announced exclusives and highly rated titles, games are merely shifting from the big names to more indie developers. Games like Zeno Clash represent the future of the PC. The PC has five times as many AAE titles than the 360 this generation."

think what you have to take into account before making statements such as the PC gaming is "floundering" OP is that over the past 2 yrs, theres just been a blitz of fantastic pc games, and this is just a cool down period while other pc games and projects aren't yet known to the gaming world yet. wait till the end of 2009/2010 to make statements like that then it would be more valid, a 6 month cool down is definitely acceptable in the gaming industry in my opinion.

Yeah PC is kind of alone, as in know one is there to take it and say "Here we have....." but I still think it`s doing very well for what it does have, which is in my mind alot more then what a console can offer, Flexibilty in what is in your computer, last alot longer then a console(to most people) plus we have a ton more mmo`s :P

"dwarfzilla said:

"I put weed in my PC, so even web browsing is a euphoric experience."

Weed is hardly euphoric"

The pc wont die until consoles get a good dbz game.  KAAAAMEEEEEHAAAAMEEEEE

"I think a game like Crysis really brings out all the flaws in PC gaming. Its not easily accessible because you need a $2000 PC to run it properly and it was one of the most bootlegged games of 2007. In the end,its a question of good economics, isn't it ? Most developers don't find it profitable to make a PC exclusive game these days. The only really interesting titles you see on the PC are small indie games like Audiosurf or MMOs. Or maybe a John Carmack masterpiece once every 5 years.

You do not need a $2000 PC to run Crysis. Mind my language, but I have to call bullshit on that one. It is more expensive than console gaming, generally, but it is not to the extent that you're claiming.

2007 was a great year for PC games as well, we had Stalker, all the console ports (Bioshock, COD4), Portal, Team Fortress 2, Half Life 2 Episode Two, Crysis, World in Conflict, Sins of a Solar Empire...etc..

Consoles do not have the same graphical quality, and you don't need a $2000 PC for that to be true. You also neglected to mention the monthly fee on Xbox Live, and Steam and Xfire are arguably better than XBL. You do not need a tune up every six months (even if you want to play games on max). A good PC will last 2 years to play everything on maximum, and 4 years (my current is 5 years old) to play any games.

No offense, but your post is full of shit.

"TheOGVandalvideo said: Crysis does require a hefty PC to run it at a high resolution and the only reason most people buy this game is for its highly publicized graphics. I would really love to know what kind of $600 PC are you running because a standard $600 PC doesn't contain anything better than a nVidia 8400 or an equivalent card with barely 1 gig of memory - something which the game will chew up and spit out at medium settings itself.

I'll give you the RTS argument since thats one genre of games where consoles have nothing on the PC....yet. Lets see how the Halo RTS turns out but until the developers come up with a good control scheme for the consoles, RTS games will stay on the PC.

Regarding the fighting games by Capcom, they are not PC exclusive. And a console is always a better choice for fighting games. Huge TV+controllers are always more fun than a smaller screen+keyboard. And you can't compare one game like The Experiment to the army of action-adventure games available on the consoles. Also, I'm pretty sure that MMOs like WOW would make up most of that revenue generated on the PC - which was again my earlier point. BTW I said the PC is not dead "YET" but its certainly going downhill. The platform is not a priority for most developers these days and for a good reason. Developing games for PCs is  harder than it is for a console. And even if you do come up with a great game, you won't have a huge marketing machine like Microsoft or Sony to help market your game. The number of good games being developed exclusively for the PC has take a serious nose dive over the last four years. I can't think of any big house developer besides Blizzard who work exclusively on the PC. id, Firaxis,Valve, Bethesda,Bioware -  all releases their games on the consoles as well.

I really do see the PC inching towards a state where all you use it for are small indie games or some really really rare exclusive titles. Its not as much as dieing but a shift from big $50 titles to small $10-20 games like Portal. Something simple which won't require an expensive PC and also something cheap enough so you don't pirate it.

PS: I like how you avoided the whole bootleg argument in my first comment. Its probably whats secretly killing the PC market in my opinion."

PS: I like how you avoided the whole bootleg argument in my first comment. Its probably whats secretly killing the PC market in my opinion."

MMO games are pirated as well. It's just that they're so massively popular that the company still makes a bundle even if it is.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you said, HitNRun. But unlike you, I'm sticking with this platform. Why would you just quit now? You can still get most of the good games on the PC. Until they stop making Call of Duty or whatnot on the PC, I'm going to stick with this platform.

TheOGVandalvideo said:
Your rig has almost the same specs as mine and it costs me close to $1800 (including everything like speakers and monitors+a 3 year extended warranty) back in 2006. Console games  provide much better graphical quality when compared to my PC (I'm talking 1080p btw).

@ the Halo comment : Yes, I agreed with you. PC is better for RTS.

When you say the support for the PC is growing, do you mean more original, exclusive titles or just ports of console games which were usually released 2-3 months earlier ? Because that was my point - unless you have exclusive PC titles, why should I spend extra money on rigging up my computer if I can play the same game on my Xbox or PS. Also, I didn't compare The Experiment to Zelda either.

A couple of quotes from the article you mentioned :

Using information gathered back in January and February, the report separated the North American game-playing populace into the following seven categories, totaling 174 million gamers:

• Young Heavy Gamers: 22%
• Seconday Gamers: 20%
• Console Games: 17%
• Offline PC Gamers: 15%
• Online PC Gamers: 14%
• Avid PC Gamers: 9%
• Extreme Gamers: 3%
• 
  
• Though PCs were "used more than any single console for gaming," NPD stressed that "Console Gamers, Young Heavy Gamers and Extreme Gamers are more likely to use consoles than a PC to play video games."

It really emphasizes by earlier point that PC gaming is shifting to a different plain and catering to a whole different kind of audience now.

And PC games are hit the hardest by piracy. There is no question about it. Its not a marketing ploy or an excuse to hide their failures. Games on the PC are the easiest to hack and distribute. Only something like the new Mass Effect anti-piracy mechanic which requires frequent internet access or an MMO can keep stop you from pirating games. Unless every single game on the platform does something similar, piracy is going to ruin it."

Fine...so you refuse to discuss the issue of PC gaming being more expensive than console gaming but decide to attack the $2000 figure and go from there. But okay, I take it back. Apparently, I'm the only one who thinks gaming PCs are overly expensive.

Your next point was about a great year for PC gaming .You do know that the overall sales for PC games has been on the decline on for the last 3 years, right ? And this is at a time when video games in general are generating more and more revenue each year ? 2007 was not a great year for "PC games"..it was just a great year for games in general. All the great games were actually released on the consoles with PC ports and every single one of them sold more copies on the consoles. Sins of a Solar Empire was released in 2008 btw.

If you want to achieve the graphical quality of a game in 1080p on the PC, you do need a very expensive computer. Maybe not something which will break your bank but it will pinch. Xbox Live is $50 a year...thats 4.17 dollars a month. And they provide you with achievement points using which you can actually buy games - for free!. I think XBL's cost is more of an inconvience than a huge drawback. I'll still concede this point since Steam is free. (Xfire is not the same thing as Steam or XBL mind you)

You mentioned a good PC will last for 2 years to play everything at maximum. Thats incorrect. I bought a tricked out PC with a nvidia 7900 in Dec 2006. Its been less than 2 years and I can't run Crysis at anywhere near max resolution (ie 1600x1200 with full AA and AF) but a console usually lasts for 4 years and you can still play everything at maximum by the end of its lifespan. My point is that PCs don't have nearly the same lifespan as their console counterparts.

Plus, just on a side note, keep in mind that there are games on consoles that had to be forced to run on 600p or 720p max and some even run at 30fps. On the PC you don't get such a thing and games run according to your setup which is great.

"TheOGVandalvideo said: Good for you! Unfortunately, my Alienware was a little bit more expensive than yours.:( In my experience, consoles still turn out to be cheaper when compared to PC after i include the TV and the speakers. True that not all games run at 1080p but I thought we are talking about the best visual quality on either platform. Take console games like UT3 for example. They are really really close to their PC counterparts. UT3 actually looks better on my TV than it does on my computer (I do admit I have an "old" computer). Graphic quality is really subjective and depends a lot on what you're running tbh so opinions really vary. I'm not here to insult your judgement on what looks better and I'll leave it at that.

Demographic is important when you talk about PC as a fledging gaming platform. You see, my point wasn't that the PC is dead but its losing priority as a gaming platform and most developers just release ports on the PC. The revenue generated on the PC is mainly through casual games and WoW (these two accounted for 2/3rds of the revenue generated on the PC in 2007).You keep bringing up the fact that its the highest grossing platform but you fail to acknowledge what games make up these revenues. Honestly, I don't really enjoy discussing talks of revenues becuase it makes me feel like a sales analyst, rather than a gamer.

I have to disagree with your viewpoint on piracy. Even when a mediocre game is being pirated, the developer has every right to complain about it. Every single pirated game is a potential sales lost. Its completely justifiable for them to express their views on piracy and it doesn't make them any less valid. They are losing money by making games for the PC and they would rather go make the same game for a console and actually make a profit out of it. And would you say that id software is also using piracy to hide their failure as game developers ? (Even Carmack recently hit out at piracy in PC gaming)

All my viewpoints are established by talking to avid gamers I know. Most of them find gaming on their consoles a lot more fun than their PCs. These aren't people with just one console either - most of my friends (and I) have multiple consoles and a decent PC. But more often than not, we find ourselves playing on the consoles. That to me says something about the state of the PC.
"

I think lot of people are forgetting that many people buy their pc games via digital download instead of going to retail these days. 
Oh and Killjoy,  whole point of owning a gaming pc is the having the option of upgrading,  with consoles your basically stuck with same hardware but pcs let you change to newer parts if you choose to.

Yes PC gaming is more expensive but not by that much,  PC hardware is dirt cheap these days (Nvidia 9600GT anyone? and you could get 4GB RAM for less then hundred bucks)  and games are also around $20 less.  
I mean people buy pcs all the time HPs, Dells, Acers,  and pay hundreds dollars for them and have no idea what they are getting, why don't they justt add little bit more money and build a kick ass gaming rig ?

As the original poster of that thread on John Carmack, he never specifically attributed the problem to piracy. He explicitly said that he didn't know why, but PC gaming just wasn't the same. That said, piracy definitely is a problem.

"Hamz said:

"As a PC gamer i'd say the biggest problem with the platform is it has no immediate face to it. And by that i mean Xbox has Microsoft, Playstation has Sony and the Wii has Nintendo to back their consoles and have conferences for them at the likes of E3 an other gaming events.

The PC however has no one to actually say "well this year on the PC we intend to..." because all it has is developers who are more interested in flogging their games than to actually promote the platform. I think everyone can agree this years E3 conferences seemed to focus more on why you should buy the console than promote what good games are coming out on it.

There is also the fact that the PC has no genre to call its own as games from all genres can be found on both the PC and consoles. Ten years ago it used to be that consoles were better for platformers, fighting, racing and the odd flying sim game where as the PC was better at RPG, FPS, RTS and the MMO. But now its all mixed together and the PC has lost its solidarity to those genres. The current situation for gamers is that by owning only one platform you limit you're gaming experience.

We're also seeing more and more of the same type of games being released on the PC too, if it isn't another MMO with a fantasy setting its another FPS with flashy graphics and no real substance to the gameplay. As a gaming platform the PC is the most expensive and with the economy how it is globally at the moment i imagine most people aren't too inclined to drop a small fortune on building a new PC. The platforms hit a negative period, but hopefully we'll see it pick up again soon to prove its still a viable option to play games on."

"you are wrong about a lot of things ..."

I've always been in the camp that believes the PC is not dieing, never was, and never will.

"xruntime said:

"As the original poster of that thread on John Carmack, he never specifically attributed the problem to piracy. He explicitly said that he didn't know why, but PC gaming just wasn't the same. That said, piracy definitely is a problem.

"

I remember him saying multiple times that piracy is part of the problem with PC gaming. Its certainly not the only issue though."

I like where the PC is at right now, there are enough good games coming out to keep me excited while not blowing my brain into chunks with all the stuff coming out

"JumpingRetards said:

"The pc wont die until consoles get a good dbz game.  KAAAAMEEEEEHAAAAMEEEEE"

  
=P

"

"TheOGVandalvideo said: Thank you for judging the value of my computer without knowing anything about it. Its a laptop...just fyi and I don't know of anything better than an Alienware in that segment. I look forward to your criticism of buying a gaming laptop next.

On with the topic, the price gap between the consoles and the PC is closing but the graphic quality is also closing at a faster rate. The only difference is that you actually need to put in more money every year to keep up with the hardware requirements of these games on the PC. Crysis looks like any good looking game on the consoles (like UT) if you run it with a 7900 GS. It only starts to shine when you run it with a top end DX10 card which again is very expensive, thus invalidating your point about PC games offering better visual quality with a 600 dollar rig. Compare this to how good MGS4 looks with the standard PS3 hardware right now - and games will only look better by the time PS3 nears the end of its lifecycle. BUT as I said earlier, I honestly don't want to discuss graphical quality of games - there is almost nothing to choose between console and PC games in general and depends a lot on the hardware you run it on. Its pointless to keep bringing this up. I concede the point on prices though...apparently graphic cards are a lot cheaper now than they were 5 years ago.

Demographic decides what kind of games are released on a platform. It affects everything. You are being obtuse if you think demographics don't matter. And no thanks, I'm not a sales analyst who saves sales reports in the bookmark list to shoot them out in a snappy forum discussion. From memory, in 2007  - WoW and casual games did make up 2/3rd of the revenue on the PC. Take it with a grain of salt if you don't want to believe me.

BTW..whats with the so called "facts" about piracy? What you are saying are opinions, not facts. Companies are losing business to pirated games and its more rampant on the PC. The game being good or bad is not a fact - thats an opinion. And your conclusion that they are using it as excuses is also an opinion.Every single illegal game download on the PC is 40-50 dollars lost for that company. By the way, id software is a solid developer and John Carmack is complaining about piracy on the PC. You should disregard him too ? I'm stating opinions as well but I'm not masking them under the term "fact".

Your viewpoints are established based on your interpretation of facts. But the argument is not about raw facts, its about the state of PC gaming atm and what kind of games can we expect on the platform in the future. And I think that PC is losing priority as a gaming platform due to things like piracy and demographics.

"

It will never die, but there many who are total denial about its current state. Some have posted right here. The PC some great strengths and but those are also tied to its biggest weaknesses. Unfotunately the platform is unlikely to get any of its problems fixed since it has no one owner to guide its course. From a business standpoint game developers for the PC have been making the dunbest choice of all and it is amazing its taken them thisa long to figure it out. This well we will design our games for highest end hardware available which is also owned by the lowest percentage of people. Not a good way to make your dev costs back and turn a profit. Oh and piracy is clearly an issue. While it exsists on consoles too as some PC gamers like to whine it is not nearly widespread and common. 

I can hardly see how you think the PC is dieing.
Especially since as long as consoles have existed, people have been saying PC gaming is as good as cooked.
The PC is the ultimate open platform. You can do whatever the hell you want on it, and that kind of flexibility allows developers to really use their creative muscles as well as letting the players themselves make mods and tweaks. This allows developers to release games such as Spore and Starcraft and Diablo and World of Warcraft on a capable and manageable platform. I guarantee if you tried to play any of those games on a console, you would vomit profusely in frustration. Killjoy said 2004 was the last great year for PC gaming, but I beg to differ. Each year that the PC subsists it only grows more powerful and menacing. Looking at market figures only shows the purchases of boxed copies in certain specified retailers. This leaves out revenues such as digital distribution and subscription fees. With WoW's 10 million players, Blizzard is pulling in $150,000,000 every month. Think of all the MMO's youve ever played for a month, and all the games you've bought off of Steam, and all the great gaming experiences you still have on the grandpoppy of gaming. Then go ahead and ask yourself if PC gaming is dieing.

You have to take into consideration digital distribution, and also that PC games sell more consistently but slower than console games. Wasn't Diablo battlechest a top seller when Diablo 3 was announced? and that game is very old also.