@jesushammer said:
@demoskinos: How about none of the characters besides Dante's having any development? How about dick jokes before we go fuck with the dude whose kid we just killed? How about everything during the Succubus fight? How about the really dumb Twitter stuff at the end? The "FUCK YOU" just sticks out because it's just two characters yelling FUCK YOU back and forth. It's the biggest sign the story was made for 13 year olds that want to be cool. The problem isn't that exactly. The problem is how serious the story takes itself while doing these things. I don't think anybody can deny that a protagonist whose main response to everyone and everything is FUCK YOU is probably some preteens role model. The previous DMC games didn't have great writing or anything, but not one of them asked me to take them seriously besides 2 which is the worst in the series. They were just fun and dumb anime nonsense which is basically what people seem to like about Bayonetta, so I don't see how people can love Bayo's stupid nonsense story and not get at least some enjoyment out of DMC3 and 4.
Let's break this down.
Contrary to popular belief, Dante rarely swears in the game. The infamous "Fuck you" line? Brought about by an enemy, The Succubus, insulting the memory of Dante's dead mother. The Succubus is established as a crude person. She constantly swears, and never flinches at using gross language to instigate a confrontation. At their very first meeting the Succubus calls Dante's mother a whore, among other things, and then goes on to insult Dante. Understandably, Dante is upset. Less eloquent than classical Dante, DMC Dante is unable to come up with a witty response at the sudden attack, and only manages a simple "Fuck you". She responds in turn, to mock him. So while the "Fuck you" exchange is silly, when one looks at the characters and the circumstances it's understandable why the dialogue exchange occurs.
Other instances of Dante swearing are restricted to the scenes leading towards the boss fights. The bosses Dante encounters are part of a faction that essentially tore apart his family. They actively hunt him, and want to kill him. The bosses constantly insult Dante, constantly taunt and gloat. Dante, again, responds in kind. But something happens towards the later portions of the game. After becoming a member of Vergil's organization and befriending both him and Kat, Dante begins to mellow out. He makes lighthearted jokes ("Took longer than I thought. Church.") and starts to swear less and less. When he confronts Bob Barcas, Mundus' right-hand man, Dante has stopped using crude insults entirely. Instead, he makes cutting jibes that he knows will aggravate Barcas.
Dante grows as a character. He starts out with less wit than Classic Dante and, while never actually reaching peak Classic Dante levels, begins to work closer to that type of humour. He becomes a more composed and level-headed person. The only instance of his crude humour resurfacing is during the final confrontation with Mundus, when Dante is deliberately trying to goad Mundus into a frenzy so that he acts carelessly. Dante makes a dead baby joke for this express purpose. But his actual opinion in the scene where the demon baby is killed? He's furious. Dante is upset with Vergil for instigating the death, and calls his brother out on their actions, even threatening to leave the organization because of what he deems as a reprehensible act. It is only after Kat mediates their argument that the two brothers continue to work together.
The dick joke? It's Vergil that makes the joke. The scene leading up to the dick joke has Dante and Vergil working together to infiltrate Mundus' HQ. As they work their way through the building their opinions toward each other are cold - this is because it happens a few days after the demon baby dies. When they meet each other at the final rendezvous point, the two make some jokes in an effort to repair their relationship:
"I'm stronger."
"I'm smarter."
"I'm better looking."
Vergil makes a dick joke, completely out of character, because at that point in the game he is more concerned about his brother liking him than maintaining his pride. Like Dante, Vergil has grown as a character. Previously a pragmatist and a loner, he has slowly begun to appreciate having another half-breed like him as a friend. Dante feels likewise, and that's why he's willing to forgive the death of the demon baby.
Kat? Yeah, she's a flat character. But the Devil May Cry series has always been about Dante and Vergil. How much development did Trish and Lady get? Trish is probably the closest to receiving attention from the writers, but Trish also has the advantage of not being dead. I'm not exactly thrilled about a female lead serving solely as a vehicle for the male leads angst, but the fact of the matter is that Kat existed solely so that she could die for the drama.
DMC Dante is not a bad character. He isn't invincible like Classic Dante, he isn't as clever or as self-assured. DMC Dante is more flawed, more human. He is relatable. You don't have to be a pre-teen to relate to DMC Dante. Given more games I'm sure his character can be developed in ways not possible with Classic Dante.
I'm fine with people not liking the new Dante. I just wish they'd give him a fair chance.
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