Lugixx

I have to say, I played through Twin snakes for the first time when Drew and Dan started playing the original, without any prior experience of the franchise. And I have no idea why this became popular. Sure, the gameplay is alright, but the story and dialogue is one of the worst I've ever heard in any medium. It's without any grace, they just recite everyone's motivations directly to you. There's almost never any back and forth, it's just monologuing the background section of a character sheet to you, without even trying to incoporate it into something people might possibly say. They're constantly repeating information you already know back to the player, and you get whiplash because the tonal shifts are so jarring. At one moment they might justify gameplay mechanics with psuedorealistic bullshit, then they just say fuck it, and start breaking the fourth wall. After that comes a loooooong lecture about the dangers of nuclear war and globalisation, which feels like it's coming from a poorly written textbook, then you escape a place by a guard getting diarhhea and hiding under a bed. The entire conflict is based around a gross misunderstanding of a concept (genes) from the writers that it's not even funny. It just doesn't work on any level. It takes itself too seriously to be enjoyed as camp, It's too moronic to be taken as serious fiction, it's too poorly written to be enjoyed as a character piece (but lord knows it tries), and it's not meta enough to be a meta commentary.

The crazy cutscenes was the only thing that actually got me through the story, because the action was so ridicolous. I couldn't wait to see what dumb but great bullshit Snake would do next, and I don't know how I would handle it otherwise. It was the only time the game actually seemed to know what it was, and the craziness actually helped support some of the more outlandish characters and concepts (giant shamans and revolvermen, anyone?), and it breaks my heart that people actually consider it a detriment to the remake. I'll probably never play another MGS since they don't have this level of self-aware insanity, since I clearly don't "get it", but I hope I've at least offered an interesting perspective on franchise.

Please, do continue to enjoy video games.

As a european, the release date is the same and it's usually overpriced, so I honestly no idea of why you would want to buy it from the e-shop.

@Pixel_Kaiser said:

@Jolt92: Oh gosh yes, this.

I really hope this means he's going back to comics, that dude can draw some great funny books. His Avenging Spider-Man issues were soooooo great.

I remember thinking that it was so great having him as a regular artist, then I found out he'd be leaving and we got Greg Land instead.

My heart was broken that evening.

DAMN IT PATRICK, IT'S SPELLED CTHULHU. WHY CAN YOU NEVER GET THE IMPORTANT STUFF RIGHT

On another note: It's nice to see a (moderately) high profile game released on XBLIG, since they're are some truly fantastic games on there. Hopefully this make more people aware of the service, and maybe we will even see some new talent breaking in to the industry because of it.

Yes, I'm way too optimistic. Shut up.

Replace Star Wars with Project P-100 and it's exactly like my list!

This why Alex is my favourite member of Giantbomb.

@Liquidus: Yeah I feel that as well, but It has been nice having a civilized conversation for once. Anyway...

1. No, I accept it as well. The narrative just doesn't give us enough exposition to why this is possible, which makes it seem very implausible. I shouldn't have to invent the narrative just because the writer felt lazy.

2. Well, I do. Don't really know what else to say. i can find a video later if you want.

3. They could've easily fixed this. Make it hard rain, hail or something like that. It never had to break the lore.

4. He totally does, which is very odd. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o-ocHDl0FI Around the 27 minutes mark.

5. It was around 20 seconds (I timed it for this argument because I'm a nerd) And the codex entry proves that Mass Effect shields can't hold oxygen on their own. I know it's weird to say, but explosions in space never bother me. I'm just to used to it.

6.Again, i don't see how this was in service of the gameplay. He could've still have been a perfectly capable tank. This would've made much more sense than him having leadership skills which we never see, and barely hear of. Heck, they could've even made him have multiple roles. This could've easily been rectified. In fact, all of these could've been. They just didn't give a fuck.

I'd agree that half my points are nitpicky. No more. And Narrative Coherence is relative to the person experiencing the narrative. It was never my intention to make a statement about the ending to ME3, as I've said I merely pointed out that Mass Effect doesn't have a well made internal logic put behind it. I replied to your claim that it did. I'll say it again. IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THE ENDING TO MASS EFFECT 3. I never defended it in my posts, I never doubted anyone who was upset with it and I never claimed it to be coherent.

The only thing I said wasn't narratively coherent was ME2, but that wasn't even part of my argument.

*sigh* The more I think about it, the more I think this entire discussion has been a misunderstanding. Anyway, feel free to respond, but I'm probably not going to. It's getting pretty late here in Sweden.

@pyrodactyl: I agree with Butz (tehe). Mass effect 2 was where it all fell apart for me. But as I've said, I merely pointed out to Liquidus that Mass Effect DOES break its internal logic, when he said it didn't. I'm sorry for any confusion that I may have caused :/

Now, if you were to say that Mass Effect 2 was narratively coherent, then you would have a real battle on your hands :D

EDIT: It also matters to what extent you break internal logic, obviously, otherwise my suspension of disbelief is entirely shattered (which is rather important in hard sci-fi)

@pyrodactyl said:

@Lugixx said:

@pyrodactyl: I haven't played Mass Effect 3, so I can't say anything on the matter.

What are you doing in this tread then?

Exactly like the guy Patrick interviewed, you can assume what the discussion on ME3's ending is about but you can't truely know why people are angry.

You can assume that the end made as much sense as the rest of the game but you would be EXTREMELY WRONG.

The main reason ME3's ending is bad and ME3 in general is not: the amount of inconsistencies/hour of game time

let's be generous and say in ME3 in general there is 1 inconsistent thing every hour of game time. Nothing immersion or game breaking

Rough estimate: in the last mission of the game the ratio sky rockets from 1 inconsistent thing every hour of game time to about 50 the closer you get to the credits

Yes, I could name you at least 20 things that don't make any sense in the last 20 minutes alone

So much for the narative coherence...

Because I responded to a guy making a statement which I disagreed with? I never said anything about the ending, why people were upset about it or if Patrick was wrong. I merely responded to a guy claiming that Mass Effect doesn't break its internal logic. I never claimed the ending made sense, I never made a claim that I had played it and whether the ending makes sense or not has nothing to do with my disagreement with Liquidus. Our main discussion never included the ending. I really don't know what you're talking about.

@pyrodactyl: I haven't played Mass Effect 3, so I can't say anything on the matter. I also said "off the top of my head. This is also only related to mass effect fields and biotics. And these aren't game breaking plot holes. these are inconsistencies. I can get into those instead if you wish.

@Liquidus: I don't want a giant quotation, so...

1. Yes, there is a huge distinction, which is that a supernova is a lot stronger.

2. No, I'm talking about when he's talking with Samara in her room. For the sake of clarity, I mean as the Normandy has Mass Effect shields. He stares directly at a star (not the sun, my mistake)

3. Yet you aren't hurt until they go down. You should be hurt directly by the sun.

4.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_core Yes, I did mean the galactic core. There is a massive, dense collection of stars there, and engaging FTL in it would be suicide. This isn't just debris which you can just push away. These are STARS. (capslock for effect)

5. I agree. I should have said "without any injuries". He was in a vacuum for roughly 20 seconds. That would result in loss of consciousness, frostburns, and swelling of skin. I cannot find any support for your claim that it is mass effect fields that keep air in the citadel.

6. Yet Samara and Jack doesn't have any protection power like Jacob, which he has been training for at least several years of his life. A power which is very similar to the task which needs to be done. I'm not saying that Jack and Samara shouldn't be able to do it, I'm saying that Jacob should be able to do it to.

@Liquidus said:

@Lugixx said:

@Oni said:

@golguin said:

@purplethoughnotquite said:

I hate to burst your bubble, but all this biotic power and mass effect tech nonsense is space magic.

This specific argument grates me. Yes, you could argue it is space magic, but there are limits to it throughout all of the games. Sure, the explanation is technobabble, but there's still an internal logic to the mass relays and biotic powers that the game respects and doesn't break. They're not catch-all plot devices used to explain away every ridiculous plot twist (nanomachines). It has absolutely nothing in common with the deus ex machina introduced in the game's eleventh hour.

I can think of a lot of inconsistencies with the mass effect technology and moments when they break the internal logic. They may not be catch-all plot devices, but sure as hell aren't consistent with it, and every time I notice it I'm drawn out of the experience. It may not be as bad as nanomachines, but it's still pretty bad.

Name them. Seriously, name "a lot" of inconsistencies with the mass effect technology in the games because I can't even think of one. Since the first game, the rules were set on what biotics, mass effect fields, etc. could do and could not and the series stuck by those rules pretty closely. Bending the rules slightly for a cool moment in the game IS NOT the same as breaking internal logic.

Off the top of my head?

A mass effect relay being able to survive a supernova, but can be destroyed by an asteroid.

Shepard looking right into the sun.

Tali's recruitment mission, where the sun is blazing yet the kinetic barriers protect shepard

Joker engaging FTL drive in the galactic core.

Joker surviving in the vacuum of space

Jacob being able to do the strongest biotic barrier in the game, but cannot do the bubble on the suicide mission.

I can find more if you'll like, this was just what jumped out at me.