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OmegaPirate

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GT5 - can impressions be trusted now?

So i threw this into a post on a recently brought up thread about GT5 and reviews - and it turned from a quick reply into something a lot lengthier - and as such i figured it would probably serve better as a blog post, if for no other reason than to draw any off topic conversation that stems from it into a place where it wont get derailed! 
 
In all honesty from the reviews i've seen Gt5 is exactly as polarizing as i expected it to be, both sides of the reviewing fence have stated the same facts and pretty much the same issues the key differences being in where the reviewers saw merit. 
 
Reviews like the IGN one and a couple of the lower ones are basically complaining it isn't call of duty :the racing game it's not modern enough, it's not got online xp for races.   
Users like Hitman (of course) and raymayne (dude is so passionate about the game he's felt the need to post in every gt5 thread with the same copy pasted comment - beginning to think he may be kaosangels evil twin)  are nice and busy looking at the internet for every available opportunity to come up with something negative.   people spending time laboriously frame by frame picking out bad screenshots for a game (which EVERY game has if you look hard enough - yes even on the mighty pc) in order to make other people feel bad about a game they enjoy.  
 
And of course there's the underlying elephant in the corner that most people are choosing to ignore in the cast of being able to be 'that guy' for 5 minutes. Most reviewers got the game on monday, online activated yesterday - is this really enough time to judge a game like GT5?   

Hell! even reviews that have pushed out reviews today based on playing online since yesterday and complained about it ; "It was really laggy" ; "I spawned in a race and everyone else was already racing" 
 Good job guys, making comments on a multi million selling game that has had an online existence for all of 11 hours.  
 I'm sure judging by some of the comments on HOW the online is implemented that it is a little antiquated, its a hardcore japanese as hell game on a platform not exactly known for its online features (not my belief but whatever i'll throw the naysayers a bone) thats been in development for 6 years - of course some of it's massive feature set may feel a little out of date but i'll ask this ; If people were to have reviewed Black ops based on the public first day internet experience - would its online have been as lauded as it is?  
Probably not. 
 
Now i do have gt5 in my hand, i have not played it yet and look forward to doing so. I have seen users on the site who i DO actually take stock in their comments (wintersnowblind . etc) commenting on feeling a tad disappointed with the game so far and as such i do go in with a little bit of fear - that twinned with the constructive as always resident trolls of GB "Lolz game is shit ; 8.5 thats gonna leave a mark" has left a tiny amount of tension in my expectations as the game installs. 
  
But then i remember that GT5 is not like other games, I remember WHY i spent a whole summer school holiday trying to gold every license on each iteration - as someone who medically can not drive cars GT is probably the closest I'm ever going to get to the chance to even take a fucking Nova past 50 MPH. 
 Sure there are other games out there - go ahead, check my profile on Gb and look at my achievement list, i'll wait.
 
I loved Dirt 2 and Motorstorm games, Burnout was essential this generation in my eyes - and of course forza is there. for all of the 3? achievements i got out of that before deciding to stick it on my shelf here and not play it again.  
I can't describe it it just didn't feel right - and i then went straight back to trying to own every car in GT4 (a task i am now abandoning due to gt5, but that was still ongoing) 
 
I get this probably comes off as a huge wank fest to Polyphony and GT5 in general , especially for someone who hasn't even pushed start yet - but the way i see it  if people like Raymayne and hitman and the other users can make negative and borderline offensive comments themselves, without having touched it! and reviewers are being payed to write up opinions about a quarter of a game they played for not even a day - then i guess I'm just as qualified to share an opinion as anyone else. 
  
So for every negative comment here, for every review that states insane design choices are the ruination of the game! let me throw a couple of things out here for you, after all remember my opinion can never be right because some people operate on facts and dont feel emotion and therefore i must be wrong because thats their opinion and opinions cant be wrong but mine must be (sic) 
  
First of all a couple of things ABOUT reviewing the game this is something i read a couple of days ago and i can wager that when this persons opinion of the game come sout, it will be a damned sight more reliable than any of the others and i bet a lot more positive. 
 
http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/gran-turismo-5/news/gran-turismo-5-this-is-not-the-review/a-20101123152933288098/g-20070711154452396099  
 
Second is a link towards another games site posing the same question i have posed here about the validity of these 'early door but no earlier access than the public reviews' ;  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=120094 
 
And finally, a review - a review that is not the highest scoring one, nor the lowest scoring and takes into account all the warts and bad things about the game. 
But also takes into account what MAKES gt5  a gran turismo, the feelings you get playing it that no other driving game gives you - and basically the opposite polar of the negative glass is empty views 
 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-24-gran-turismo-5-review  
 
Anyway Tl:dr for most of you, but for anyone else that managed to read the whole damn thing i hope that it makes at least a tiny bit of sense. 

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OmegaPirate

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Edited By OmegaPirate

So i threw this into a post on a recently brought up thread about GT5 and reviews - and it turned from a quick reply into something a lot lengthier - and as such i figured it would probably serve better as a blog post, if for no other reason than to draw any off topic conversation that stems from it into a place where it wont get derailed! 
 
In all honesty from the reviews i've seen Gt5 is exactly as polarizing as i expected it to be, both sides of the reviewing fence have stated the same facts and pretty much the same issues the key differences being in where the reviewers saw merit. 
 
Reviews like the IGN one and a couple of the lower ones are basically complaining it isn't call of duty :the racing game it's not modern enough, it's not got online xp for races.   
Users like Hitman (of course) and raymayne (dude is so passionate about the game he's felt the need to post in every gt5 thread with the same copy pasted comment - beginning to think he may be kaosangels evil twin)  are nice and busy looking at the internet for every available opportunity to come up with something negative.   people spending time laboriously frame by frame picking out bad screenshots for a game (which EVERY game has if you look hard enough - yes even on the mighty pc) in order to make other people feel bad about a game they enjoy.  
 
And of course there's the underlying elephant in the corner that most people are choosing to ignore in the cast of being able to be 'that guy' for 5 minutes. Most reviewers got the game on monday, online activated yesterday - is this really enough time to judge a game like GT5?   

Hell! even reviews that have pushed out reviews today based on playing online since yesterday and complained about it ; "It was really laggy" ; "I spawned in a race and everyone else was already racing" 
 Good job guys, making comments on a multi million selling game that has had an online existence for all of 11 hours.  
 I'm sure judging by some of the comments on HOW the online is implemented that it is a little antiquated, its a hardcore japanese as hell game on a platform not exactly known for its online features (not my belief but whatever i'll throw the naysayers a bone) thats been in development for 6 years - of course some of it's massive feature set may feel a little out of date but i'll ask this ; If people were to have reviewed Black ops based on the public first day internet experience - would its online have been as lauded as it is?  
Probably not. 
 
Now i do have gt5 in my hand, i have not played it yet and look forward to doing so. I have seen users on the site who i DO actually take stock in their comments (wintersnowblind . etc) commenting on feeling a tad disappointed with the game so far and as such i do go in with a little bit of fear - that twinned with the constructive as always resident trolls of GB "Lolz game is shit ; 8.5 thats gonna leave a mark" has left a tiny amount of tension in my expectations as the game installs. 
  
But then i remember that GT5 is not like other games, I remember WHY i spent a whole summer school holiday trying to gold every license on each iteration - as someone who medically can not drive cars GT is probably the closest I'm ever going to get to the chance to even take a fucking Nova past 50 MPH. 
 Sure there are other games out there - go ahead, check my profile on Gb and look at my achievement list, i'll wait.
 
I loved Dirt 2 and Motorstorm games, Burnout was essential this generation in my eyes - and of course forza is there. for all of the 3? achievements i got out of that before deciding to stick it on my shelf here and not play it again.  
I can't describe it it just didn't feel right - and i then went straight back to trying to own every car in GT4 (a task i am now abandoning due to gt5, but that was still ongoing) 
 
I get this probably comes off as a huge wank fest to Polyphony and GT5 in general , especially for someone who hasn't even pushed start yet - but the way i see it  if people like Raymayne and hitman and the other users can make negative and borderline offensive comments themselves, without having touched it! and reviewers are being payed to write up opinions about a quarter of a game they played for not even a day - then i guess I'm just as qualified to share an opinion as anyone else. 
  
So for every negative comment here, for every review that states insane design choices are the ruination of the game! let me throw a couple of things out here for you, after all remember my opinion can never be right because some people operate on facts and dont feel emotion and therefore i must be wrong because thats their opinion and opinions cant be wrong but mine must be (sic) 
  
First of all a couple of things ABOUT reviewing the game this is something i read a couple of days ago and i can wager that when this persons opinion of the game come sout, it will be a damned sight more reliable than any of the others and i bet a lot more positive. 
 
http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/gran-turismo-5/news/gran-turismo-5-this-is-not-the-review/a-20101123152933288098/g-20070711154452396099  
 
Second is a link towards another games site posing the same question i have posed here about the validity of these 'early door but no earlier access than the public reviews' ;  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=120094 
 
And finally, a review - a review that is not the highest scoring one, nor the lowest scoring and takes into account all the warts and bad things about the game. 
But also takes into account what MAKES gt5  a gran turismo, the feelings you get playing it that no other driving game gives you - and basically the opposite polar of the negative glass is empty views 
 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-24-gran-turismo-5-review  
 
Anyway Tl:dr for most of you, but for anyone else that managed to read the whole damn thing i hope that it makes at least a tiny bit of sense. 

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asurastrike

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Edited By asurastrike

I own GT3 Aspec and couldn't get past the license trials. If it's anything like that, an 8.5 is far too high a score in my opinion. Also for a game that has been in development for 6 years, if it's not SUBSTANTIALLY better than Forza 3, it has failed, again, in my opinion.
 
But I'm sure the game will be fantastic for that audience that values the car tuning part, over the game part.

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KaosAngel

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Edited By KaosAngel

NeoGAF and GT-Planet spent two weeks unlocking level 20, which gives you the extreme realism mode.  The online only just went up 20 hours ago, and I somehow doubt most reviewers found the time to unlock the top tier races.  x.x 
 
But I don't care, this is my game.

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asurastrike

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Edited By asurastrike

Also, how are the reviews polarizing? The lowest it's gotten is what, a 7? A 7 is usually a "good" by most standards.

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02sfraser

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Edited By 02sfraser

Good round up. I'm going to reserve judgment until I get a copy of the game for myself. To be honest though, I have never gone 'look at that poorly textured dog' while playing a racing game (link here). I am most likely going to enjoy it for what it is, a racing sim. Like I have enjoyed the previous 4 games.

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SomeJerk

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Edited By SomeJerk
@Asurastrike said:
" I own GT3 Aspec and couldn't get past the license trials. If it's anything like that, an 8.5 is far too high a score in my opinion."
Good news: They listened and cut the difficulty down just a reasonable amount for the license tests
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OmegaPirate

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Edited By OmegaPirate
@KaosAngel said:
" NeoGAF and GT-Planet spent two weeks unlocking level 20, which gives you the extreme realism mode.  The online only just went up 20 hours ago, and I somehow doubt most reviewers found the time to unlock the top tier races.  x.x  But I don't care, this is my game. "
Im still unsure as to how the 'unlocking' stuff works in the game -  im installing now but can you explain it a little for me before i try to make sense of it in game? 
 
@Asurastrike said:
" Also, how are the reviews polarizing? The lowest it's gotten is what, a 7? A 7 is usually a "good" by most standards. "
I agree mate i cant believe how badly people react to 7's and 8's nowadays it is insane, perhaps i was a little incorrect in stating the polarizing nature of the scores - for em it was more apparent in the polarizing nature of the content of the reviews, where they chose to focus their attention and what they thought was the important aspect to focus upon. 
  
@02sfraser said:
" Good round up. I'm going to reserve judgment until I get a copy of the game for myself. To be honest though, I have never gone 'look at that poorly textured dog' while playing a racing game (link here). I am most likely going to enjoy it for what it is, a racing sim. Like I have enjoyed the previous 4 games. "
I look forward to hearing your opinion of it - also, that dog is pretty damn terribad xD 
 
@somejerk said:
" @Asurastrike said:
" I own GT3 Aspec and couldn't get past the license trials. If it's anything like that, an 8.5 is far too high a score in my opinion."
Good news: They listened and cut the difficulty down just a reasonable amount for the license tests "
This comment just filled my heart with joy - watch me still suck at it 
 
On a side note is it wrong i just did a little squeal when the "arrow over the button" interface came up to install it? im totally gonna be single after today, i can tell
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zeforgotten

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Edited By zeforgotten
@Asurastrike: @OmegaPirate: I find it really confusing that people think that 7 and 8s are "bad scores" 
 
Remember when Twilight Princess got a 8.8 and gender confused teenagers got super angry? 
Kids are fucking scary
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KaosAngel

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Edited By KaosAngel
@OmegaPirate said:
"Im still unsure as to how the 'unlocking' stuff works in the game -  im installing now but can you explain it a little for me before i try to make sense of it in game?  "
You gain exp after every race, special event, or license (first time only).  The higher level, the more realistic it becomes.  So if you're level 20, it's the realism mode.  The cap is currently at level 40, and no one hit it yet. 
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Edited By JJWeatherman

Yep, I agree that early reviews and impressions aren't going to tell the whole story. They never do, really. One of the reasons I really like Tested is because they will take literally a month to test something (like the iphone 4) before writing a review. Sure, it's not timely, but you get the perspective of someone who's actually used a product like a normal human being would for a significant amount of time. 
 
It's not exactly the same with video games since timely reviews are more necessary often times, but I'd still rather have a review be a few days later than everyone else's, than have it come out on day one and not be thorough.

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Red12b

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Edited By Red12b
@ZeForgotten said:
" @Asurastrike: @OmegaPirate: I find it really confusing that people think that 7 and 8s are "bad scores"  Remember when Twilight Princess got a 8.8 and gender confused teenagers got super angry? Kids are fucking scary "
agreed 
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Edited By Cincaid
@ZeForgotten:
My status of the day is dedicated to just that. :)
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ProfessorEss

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Edited By ProfessorEss

I don't think scores should or will effect potential buyers.
 
...but I still don't quite understand why reviewers are all "we don't want to rush this review, we want to get the full picture", like this is the first game "taking your time with it" has ever applied to.

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alternate

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Edited By alternate

this should be in the GT5 forum - just saying.

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Red12b

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Edited By MysteriousBob

I thought they released this game years ago.

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Edited By shiftymagician

Well done blog.  Personally, I cannot even begin to view any review of this game at this point as credible at all.  I want to hear reviews after the time has passed to get at least most of the content available (does not mean own most cars, but be able to potentially own them and see the full variety that may actually be in there).

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Edited By pweidman
@Red12b said:
"
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-24-gran-turismo-5-review     That's a great review.  "

It sure was.  And it made me want  to play the game pretty badly.  Overall, it seems GT5 is a game more akin to PGR2 or PGR4, only much more massive, and full of endless variety.  A true car lovers game, and the best looking one ever imo.  And so eccentric...the opening cut scene is priceless.  I can now see and understand much better the GT appeal, and the hot anticipation for this long awaited version.  Kind of a shame it's pretty much a sp experience considering the reported barebones online portion.
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sweep

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Edited By sweep  Moderator

I think this is a concern for every online game that get's released. Just look at WoW, the game as we see it now has been quite literally and physically warped since it's initial release. A review for that sort of ongoing content is contextualised by the time it is produced, fair enough, but it should at least be receptive to the idea that things may change and probably will. 
 
I need to stop talking about World Of Warcraft.

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Red12b

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Edited By Red12b
@Sweep:  
haha, you won't
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halberdierv2

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Edited By halberdierv2

I still don't care what people rate the game as, Ive seen enough to say its awesome.

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onarum

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Edited By onarum

" Worse, the impact physics still have the racers either bouncing off or snagging on each other like toy cars. It's about the audio as much as anything – that hollow thud sounds like you've kicked a cardboard box, not crashed two tons of metal together – but it unsuspends your disbelief at the game's looks in a hurry. "
 
Taken from the eurogamer review.
 
That alone would be enough reason for me to disregard this game completely, I'm sorry but that's just not ok anymore, not at this day and age, also the fact that it seems that it controls terribly with a dualshock 3, and I'm not keen on spending 300 bucks on a wheel and wheel support/chair whatever...
 
It's like I always felt it would turn out, Polyphony it seems got stuck on time, well that's actually a thing with many japanese devs, they are still living oin the ps2 days, where improving graphics was usually enough, jnot so much, I want realistic crashes, sounds and physics, it's the very least I came to expect from a modern racing game.

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Edited By excido
@JJWeatherman: unrelated but I just saw this and it got me interested in checking out tested, I've never actually been to the site.  
 
I have to say though that I agree with the OP in this one, I'm waiting for my game to come, hopefully I'll have it by Monday and i'm pretty psyched. it's interesting seeing how people are reacting to this game and I find that it's easy to say that fanboys will like it no matter what, but if people are reviewing it and expecting a more forza GT game then they are only doing it to themselves. I don't think games should be reviewed in a vacuum but even aside from the obvious "they only had two days and there is no way they can do a full review in that time period thing" some reviews mistake being critical from being unfairly negative. it's like going to certain sites and reading reviews of apple products like the iphone that are simply 100% positive and act like it has no flaws and it's for everyone then the same people review other handsets that are also amazing and pick up on every small thing and make it seem like it's just a shitty product. people are going in to the GT5 review expecting it to be utterly perfect in a way that is a bit unrealistic.  
 
But like with all reviews you take it with a grain of salt, I personally don't trust any reviewer without knowing their personal biases and reading over their older reviews. 
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Edited By blalala
@Asurastrike said:
" Also, how are the reviews polarizing? The lowest it's gotten is what, a 7? A 7 is usually a "good" by most standards. "
Here I thought the review scale for video games was 7-10 ...
 
It seems as though people feel the need to be very defensive about the games they like. IGN is getting a lot of crap on the forums for the "low" score, but objectively speaking, I think the score can go either way. As they said, it's 10/10 as a sim and 5/10 as a game, now it's the reviewers choice with he or she thinks weighs the heaviest.
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Edited By evanbrau

7 is not a low score. The people who lose their minds when their pet game gets a seven hurt my brain. The game is getting great reviews, will be buyin' it.

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Edited By Brendan

I'm holding out for the Giantbomb review :D  Also, I should check and see if I bet XP on it...
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Edited By Chubbaluphigous

For me GT has always been a playground with cars.  I spent massive amounts of time in Prologue just buying cars and seeing what stupid things I can do with them, trying to get the best time I can on the tracks, or if I can control the Ford GT concept(this car is the devil) while drifting every corner.  

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ProfessorEss

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Edited By ProfessorEss
@Brendan said:
" I'm holding out for the Giantbomb review :D  Also, I should check and see if I bet XP on it... "
Are they gonna review it? All this talk of "it takes weeks of hardcore play to truly experience GT5" makes me think that a review would be too resource intensive. Have they confirmed or denied anything?
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Edited By frankxiv

let's be honest, anyone who was going to buy gt5 probably knew if they were going to buy it 3 years ago. anyone still undecided, the game probably isn't for them, and no review will change that, just the actual experience of playing it themselves. if you're waiting for a review, you're either looking to have your purchase justified, looking for low reviews to troll, or hoping you can call out reviewers who don't score it to your liking.
 
as for if impressions can be trusted, which to me are quite different from reviews (impressions being quick thoughts upon playing for a short while, and reviews being a summary of your feelings about the game once you're done with it), i'd say sure. as long as you know they actually played it, and can sift through the hyperbole that comes with impressions of games at launch, you can trust impressions.