Papacheeks

@cakely:

While I agree that there are great poster's moderators, and thread creators. There however have been in the past and in recent years, shady people who have control of the site such as Tyler. There are certain mods that had/have shady backgrounds and should not be mods period. I feel like Dave Lang put it o Polygon today, when it was about just developer's and discussion back in the regular GAF day's it was more inclusive and less toxic with politics, and such. But now, your lucky to be able to talk video games with developers.

@hasney:

Wasn't Besada like the guy accused of something a while back? Like certain threads about anime that depicted certain sexual things?

I could have sworn he was connected to some stuff that got buried.

And that's not including people like Amri0x

@2headedninja:

But the market isn't though, which is why every Developer is starting to try mobile or F2P model. They can't sell their product or find a demographic for it. And that's on them as developers not follow suit after someone else's shoe's, who had a different game in the same genre as them.

The increase in F2P, MOBA and the likes are because of success stories like DOTA and League of legends that more or less did what wasn't being done. One of those games came from warcraft 3 mod if memory serves me. So it;s not wonder it became popular, and also at a time where Dungeon crawlers and RTS games were kind of not moving. It was similar to the Wii lightning in the bottle scenario, same with WOW.

The difference is though that there are now 30+ Moba's out there at least 15 or so have big companies behind them. And unfortunately all those companies have different positions when it comes to pay models and in-game transactions. And those so called companies have other product lines they are affiliated with so some of the confusing pay models bleed into other games.

If you think your game can not stand on it's own against something like awesomenaughts or torchlight at a reasonable price point then re-access and re-reprice don't make it F2P. I'v seen to many projects that were suppose to be digital, or retail release get canned by a publisher, then re-ignited by kickstarter, or third party and become a crappy F2P game.

Moba's are more influential because they are a much easier market, than F2P MMO's and shooters. I wish to see only a couple of successful MOba's like LoL, Dota, Awesomenaughts, Smite and Path of Exile I guess. But I don't want people who make retail games making a game they have no business making just because for a few select companies it's lucrative.

Wareframe was the sequel in essence to Dark Sector which wasn't an awful game, and could have been neat if made into a retail game.It could have been a 19-29.99 dollar game with regular updates and quests instead of what we got. The gameplay was good, it could have made it as an actually paid release. But because Dark Sector was mad commercially they decided to take assets from that game and make a F2P action co-op game.

@timemuffin: Hahah!

If you read my post's in this thread I left the successful games out of it. OH, and BTW Team Fortress 2 went F2P way after it was done selling in orange box, and at a separate price. I never said League of Legends, Dota, Smite, TF2, were irrelevant. Just that most games like WARFACE, DIRTY BOMB, INIFINITE CRISIS, MARVEL HEROES, DEAD ISLAND MOBA, WHEN EVER BATTLEBORNE COMES OUT, ADD IN TONS OF F2P shooters, MOBA'S, and MMO'S were.

It add's up to more than just a handful of successful F2P games that come from studios who make paid games. Well look at where Micro-transactions come into play, and in MOBA'S, and other F2P games, and where they have bled into retail games:FORZA, GRAN TURISMO, DEAD SPACE 3, AND now they even have Micro-like in game purchases in the beta for Just cause 3.

Just because a couple of studios had success with it doesn't mean everyone needs to follow that model. WHich a lot of people are starting to do. Sqaure-Enix failed mobile(Microtransactions), Capcom failed mobile(microtransactions) Crytek doing a F2P third person shooter with micro transactions with The Hunted, then warface.

Go do some research and read previous post's instead of jumping on one with no information.

Even The new Unreal Tournament game, Blue Streak(Cliffy B) are all F2P. Now UT is a community made game, so that's different as tools and map creator for people are free to my knowledge. But there are so many copy cat MOBA, F2P games out and coming out it's boggling. These games like DOTA and LoL are successful, but because bigger publisher's are backing MOBA's now we get the in game currency BS in other games now.

I don't see MLG or twitch having huge events for Marvel heroes, Infinity Crisis, Battleborne, or the other MOBA games.

So they will never be that big, just like Wildstar will never be as big as WOW. Just like how other shooters will never hit the numbers COD did. So yea it is on developers to execute the correct pricing for their game, and also not overreach where they think they lay in the gaming space.

@liquiddragon:

That needs to die. F2P are where failed projects go to die or become irrelevant.

@2headedninja:

The F2P model has come in full force, and MOBA games have ahad a signficant impact on developers. Look at a game called The Hunted that probably wont come out. It's a third person shooter with a little diablo in it. But it's F2P instead of being a budget title with updates and expansion packs. Good proof of my argument is gearbox. They made so much DLC for Borderlands, they thought making a MOBA was the next step. Battleborne is one of many games that are heavily influenced by the F2P model that MOBA's pushed harder than any other F2P genre.

It's not laughable when the evidence is there. Go look at what happened to Monday night Combat which was a shooter. Most developers look at what's making money for price models. F2P shooters dont do well outside of Team fotress 2. Because there are so many paid shooters that people prefer to play.

Moba's are easy to develop/manage, and easy to digest for gamers wallets. If you can find me games outside of MOBA'S like League and DOTA 2 that have had a significant impact on pricing for developers then please enlighten me. Because only games that have a huge player base that are free are MMO'S and MOBA's.

Developers make their game F2P because of either mis-calculating development time/budget, or do not have confidence in their product at a given price point.

Also if you look at a lot of these MOBA's they are games that could have been dungeon Crawlers with added in PVP. But they would rather develop the game make it free, then hit you with booster packs, in-game items, and character rosters. Instead of making it the Blizzard way.

It's a cop out, and has bleed into other developers. When I hear a high profile developer has a new game like Crytek was making The Hunted game, I got a little excited, then I find out it's F2P and I lose 100% interest.

Same went for Marvel's moba, I thought theyw ere making something like a Ultimate Alliance game mixed with Diablo that they could build off of and have expansions. NOPE MOBA and because it's Marvel make you pay for every character that you want to play as. Would rather buy the game for 29.99 with a majority of characters unlocked, then have expansions with new story's and added characters down the line.

If battleborne by Gearbox isn't F2P I'll eat crow.

Too your last point, on Loadout. It was micro-transactions on taunts, clothing, and then has you buying special expierence packages for leveling up and buying over powered weapon crafting items.

So it becomes a pay to win scenario, and when it was in BETA it was fine, wasn't until they started dropping prices fro Play 2 win that teh community went to shit.

@sarcasticmudcrab:

The reason for all the MOBA hate is there are so Many of them. MMO's have had a rough go of it, with only a couple now being successful and still making money. In the early days you had Final Fantasy Online, Ultima Online, Everquest and Starwars:Galaxies(Before all the bad changes that doomed it), they were somewhat successful. Then WOW came out and made it hard for anyone to compete. So may failed MMO's Conan:Age of Hyperian, Terra, Lineage, there's way more than I can even remember. But most MMO'S were games you paid for then paid depending on the title a subscription fee.

No body could compete in the content Blizzard rolled out on a daily basis for the sub fee you paid.

But moba's are a cancer, F2P games like MOba's have actually made developers lazy in how they offer their games. Look at Loadout it's a shooter, but has moba like fee's just for unlocking money to spend on weapons.

@oldirtybearon:

Please explain how my comment is LOL?

Moba's are poping up all over the place, DC has one, Marvel has one, Dead Island has one, then there's all the other one off's that are all trying to get the money League of legends and Dota 2 make.

Maybe actually think of a better way to answer the thread title than LOL.

MOBA's are niche, because there are only a couple that are actually successful commercially. Heroes of the Storm, Dota, League of Legends and maybe SMite as it's getting popular. But you think Infinite crisis moba, Marvel, Dead island, BattleBorne are going to be successful.

@oldirtybearon:

That's the most bullshit comment about platformers I'v ever read. It's like you are Disregarding anything that came out By Sony, Sega, Microsoft.

Though the main competition in platformer for now would be Sony as Sega has tarnished anything with Sonic ever, and Microsoft's attempts were Blinx time sweeper, and Viva Pinata.

But to say that Jak&Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Crash, Little Big Planet, SUper Meat Boy, Spelunky don't compete with MARIO is just Fanboyism remarks and nothing more. Even Old school Spyro competed with MArio at one given time.

To the thread Question I would agree as Moba's need to die. Too many cooks in the kitchen for a genre that is niche to begin with. Only success stories mostly I would say are League of Legends, Dota 2, and maybe Smite.

@super2j:

It does, they confirmed that for the the new 3DS if you buy smash bros in Japan. But as is right now you can buy a accessory add on for your current 3DS , because new 3DS wont happen for US till spring.