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Ramyun

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Motion Controls (First blog yay!)

I know there have been tons of threads and posts about motion controls and whatnot but I just wanted to give my thoughts and opinions on the whole issue. Also it's a good reason to start my first blog post. Anyway back to the point.
 
My initial reaction to motion controls as to most of the general pubilc was that it would be potentially freaking awesome. The future was right there all Minority Report-like. You see, controllers are great for pretty much all games and is the best medium if you want to play them. But the mouse and keyboard are the kings of FPSs and RTSs and have so far cannot be matched in terms of fidelity and precision. Some may disagree in terms of FPSs that's fine by me this is a discussion after all. Motion controls said to me that this was one step further toward bridging the gap between PC and console gaming. RTS gaming, while still would not be as hardcore in terms of micromanagement and whatnot, would become a decent possible proposition for consoles evolving the industry, and evolution in the industry is always a good thing. As such, expectations were pretty high. You could say that I was really excited.....until now.
 
Coming back to the present, there seems to be an almost unanimous hate toward motion controls by which it is dismissed a merely and gimmick and a fad. The shovelware that is prominently filling up the Wii's gaming repertoire have left people jaded on the issue. To be honest, I had also developed my own brand of loathing for the system. However, in my opinion, the fault does not lie on the hardware, rather the software that is developed for it. We see that great games that also look great can be developed for this system like Super Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes, which rather relying solely on motion controls which would be awkward and insecure is a hybrid between classic controller and motion sensing. It's not much, but again this can be a step toward evolution of the industry. I think if the proper games are developed, not just garbage minigame collections that exploit the naivety of the ultra casual gamer, motion controls can act as a complimentary gameplay aspect, rather than a replacement, to the button pressing controller we know and love. 
 
What are you guys thoughts? Agree or disagree? If you think I'm stating the obvious then......good for you(!)

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Ramyun

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Edited By Ramyun

I know there have been tons of threads and posts about motion controls and whatnot but I just wanted to give my thoughts and opinions on the whole issue. Also it's a good reason to start my first blog post. Anyway back to the point.
 
My initial reaction to motion controls as to most of the general pubilc was that it would be potentially freaking awesome. The future was right there all Minority Report-like. You see, controllers are great for pretty much all games and is the best medium if you want to play them. But the mouse and keyboard are the kings of FPSs and RTSs and have so far cannot be matched in terms of fidelity and precision. Some may disagree in terms of FPSs that's fine by me this is a discussion after all. Motion controls said to me that this was one step further toward bridging the gap between PC and console gaming. RTS gaming, while still would not be as hardcore in terms of micromanagement and whatnot, would become a decent possible proposition for consoles evolving the industry, and evolution in the industry is always a good thing. As such, expectations were pretty high. You could say that I was really excited.....until now.
 
Coming back to the present, there seems to be an almost unanimous hate toward motion controls by which it is dismissed a merely and gimmick and a fad. The shovelware that is prominently filling up the Wii's gaming repertoire have left people jaded on the issue. To be honest, I had also developed my own brand of loathing for the system. However, in my opinion, the fault does not lie on the hardware, rather the software that is developed for it. We see that great games that also look great can be developed for this system like Super Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes, which rather relying solely on motion controls which would be awkward and insecure is a hybrid between classic controller and motion sensing. It's not much, but again this can be a step toward evolution of the industry. I think if the proper games are developed, not just garbage minigame collections that exploit the naivety of the ultra casual gamer, motion controls can act as a complimentary gameplay aspect, rather than a replacement, to the button pressing controller we know and love. 
 
What are you guys thoughts? Agree or disagree? If you think I'm stating the obvious then......good for you(!)

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Claude

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Edited By Claude

I love motion controls. Of course, golf is my favorite genre of video game, so you can see why I like them. I played Dawn of Discovery on the Wii and the controls worked great. Not quite PC city builder like its big brother, but it worked and played great. I've found many games that use motion controls where I just can't go back to dual analog, but you're right about the mouse and keyboard, top of the line for certain genres. I've found a happy balance between all three control methods. I'm just happy I have more than two control methods to choose from now.

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deactivated-5a1a3d3c6820c

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@PeasForFees said:
" Motion controls will probably always suck, without feedback which will likely never happen in our lifetimes "
Don't underestimate technology... The internet didn't really exist 20 years ago (It did, but not as we know it today). A lot can happen in a lifetime.
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MrKlorox

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Edited By MrKlorox

I absolutely agree. The weak implementation with the Wii is not the only possible outcome. 
 
And I also do not think the controller is not going anywhere. It's merely evolving. I've only seen Natal as an extension to the controller rather than a replacement. The mouse might currently be the best option for high precision selection, but as with every technology it will eventually be made obsolete. I do believe that moving the wrist like one would manipulate a laser pointer is the future for mouse-like input on consoles. It's only a matter of time before the current standard controller  is split in half (one for each hand) so each one can be aimed at the screen independently moving their own crosshairs separately from the camera. The rest of the functions (movement, firing, camera) would be handled the way it is now.
 
We'll be seeing a lot of head tracking, since that's something that's already been explored. Probably a resurgence of leaning in FPS games. And various other small functions that wouldn't fit on the standard button layout. Not stuff that will force us to get off our couch, like many internet absurdists presume.

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MrKlorox

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Edited By MrKlorox
@PeasForFees said:

" Motion controls will probably always suck, without feedback which will likely never happen in our lifetimes "

Nobody's trying to take away the feedback of a controller. Just offering alternate/supplemental methods of input.
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ThomasP

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Edited By ThomasP

Motion controls are great, but the industry is still waiting for that game that really makes them (motion controls) resonate with the "hardcore" community. I think Zelda Wii will be that game.

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Dalai

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Edited By Dalai

Motion controls were the main reason I came back to Nintendo and the Wii.  This generation would be a lot more boring if the industry had to rely only on HD and achievements for innovation.  I know not everybody is going to embrace them, but trust me they've helped gaming more than they hurt.

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MrKlorox

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Edited By MrKlorox
@PeasForFees: I now see what you're saying. But sadly what you describe sounds like some true VR Holodeck stuff. Much more than simple input via motion. That would be the end-all, right there.
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deadfm

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Edited By deadfm

I always thought the idea of motion controls was pretty cool, but a lot of game makers treat it in a very gimmicky way.

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Ramyun

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Edited By Ramyun

Thanks for the responses guys! Anyway I'm cautiously optimistic and hope that Sony and Microsoft can utilise the motion control scheme better by providing good games for it not just a plethora of minigames.

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Symphony

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Edited By Symphony
@PeasForFees said:
" Motion controls will probably always suck, without feedback which will likely never happen in our lifetimes "
Hammered the nail on the head.
 
Aside from this, I have had nothing but bad experience with motion controllers. From my brother's Power Glove to playing Tekken 3 at the arcade in a crazy padded room where you swing your arms around and hope it registers them as doing moves to even the Wii controller not wanting to cooporate (I swing left, it goes right. Seriously.) None of them have cooperated with me, so I've developed a general disdain for motion controls, especially when gaming works perfectly fine without them. Sure there are games out there that are much more enjoyable with peripherals that involve motion such as Rock Band or Dance Dance Revolution, but those sorts of games have very specific peripherals, and I'm not sure a standard motion controller would work for them.
 
I mean what sort of motion controller would you need for it to be able to act as if you're playing drums one minute and then acting like you're dancing on a pad the next? Would it be something like Natal where you're basically just moving in front of a camera with no physical peripheral? I'd find that much LESS immersive than using a controller since you're having to imagine you're interacting with a peripheral, especially with the lack of feedback, not to mention rather embarrassing (just imagine the Wii Music demo at E3, but without even the wiimote in you hands). Sur, Natal has said it has the ability to scan objects and use those as peripherals, such as a skateboard or guitar, but how many of us are going to own the items to do such things? I can just see it now, popping in Rock Band 3 with Natal support and it asks "Do you have a real drumset you would like to scan in?" 
 
I realize I'm taking this a bit overboard and sounding pessimistic about it. Motion controls can certainly have their benefits, such as being much more friendly for the less video game savy audience, and there are games that have used them to great effect. That said, I still feel they are rather gimmicky and definitely not something I want to see in my racing games, first person shooters, or RPGs. Gimme an M16 replica peripheral as a FPS motion controller, and then maybe we'll talk ;P
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animateria

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Edited By animateria
@Symphony said:
" @PeasForFees said:
" Motion controls will probably always suck, without feedback which will likely never happen in our lifetimes "
Hammered the nail on the head.  Aside from this, I have had nothing but bad experience with motion controllers. From my brother's Power Glove to playing Tekken 3 at the arcade in a crazy padded room where you swing your arms around and hope it registers them as doing moves to even the Wii controller not wanting to cooporate (I swing left, it goes right. Seriously.) None of them have cooperated with me, so I've developed a general disdain for motion controls, especially when gaming works perfectly fine without them. Sure there are games out there that are much more enjoyable with peripherals that involve motion such as Rock Band or Dance Dance Revolution, but those sorts of games have very specific peripherals, and I'm not sure a standard motion controller would work for them.  I mean what sort of motion controller would you need for it to be able to act as if you're playing drums one minute and then acting like you're dancing on a pad the next? Would it be something like Natal where you're basically just moving in front of a camera with no physical peripheral? I'd find that much LESS immersive than using a controller since you're having to imagine you're interacting with a peripheral, especially with the lack of feedback, not to mention rather embarrassing (just imagine the Wii Music demo at E3, but without even the wiimote in you hands). Sur, Natal has said it has the ability to scan objects and use those as peripherals, such as a skateboard or guitar, but how many of us are going to own the items to do such things? I can just see it now, popping in Rock Band 3 with Natal support and it asks "Do you have a real drumset you would like to scan in?"   I realize I'm taking this a bit overboard and sounding pessimistic about it. Motion controls can certainly have their benefits, such as being much more friendly for the less video game savy audience, and there are games that have used them to great effect. That said, I still feel they are rather gimmicky and definitely not something I want to see in my racing games, first person shooters, or RPGs. Gimme an M16 replica peripheral as a FPS motion controller, and then maybe we'll talk ;P "
 
Motion controls aren't going to survive obviously, instead let's bank on a system similar to the Matrix!     
 
...... probably not in my lifetime for better or worse.
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RetroIce4

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Edited By RetroIce4

I am all down for Motion Control Technology, but the software is what puts a bad taste in my mouth. How cheap and uneffective it is makes me dislike the motion control for that obvious reason. It doesn't work and it would be so much easier if I just had a normal controller. There are examples of it being effective, but for the most part it is cheap. Of course the only mainstream experience /  and experience that I have had was with the Wii, but as technology progresses; so will motion control. Hopefully it will get better.

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MrKlorox

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Edited By MrKlorox
@Symphony said:

" From my brother's Power Glove to playing Tekken 3 at the arcade in a crazy padded room where you swing your arms around and hope it registers them as doing moves to even the Wii controller not wanting to cooporate (I swing left, it goes right. Seriously.) None of them have cooperated with me, so I've developed a general disdain for motion controls, especially when gaming works perfectly fine without them. "

TBF none of those motion inputs used cameras to determine position; except perhaps the 'padded room' one, but there's a good chance that the 3DV system in Natal is a little more advanced than that tech. When did Tekken 3 come out? 1998?

  @Symphony said:

"Sur, Natal has said it has the ability to scan objects and use those as peripherals, such as a skateboard or guitar, but how many of us are going to own the items to do such things? I can just see it now, popping in Rock Band 3 with Natal support and it asks "Do you have a real drumset you would like to scan in?"  " 

On the subject of having to own an instrument to scan in: WTF? Just use a broom for the guitar and use nothing at all for the drums. The whole purpose is to simulate these things. Otherwise you'd just play real guitar or drums or skateboard. The skateboard thing in the E3 demo video was just an example of putting your own graphics into a game, nothing more.
 
@Symphony said:

" Gimme an M16 replica peripheral as a FPS motion controller, and then maybe we'll talk ;P "

 I wouldn't expect a gun perhipheral for Natal and then expect the accompanying game to be good. At all. However, the aiming at the screen thing might become viable using the standard controller, once it's split in half for each hand to move freely and includes accelerometers as well as angular rate sensors (the shit that it's in Wiimote w/WM+ as well as Sony's motion wand). The combination of the varying technologies is what's gonna make stuff work.
 
You might like to check out the videos from TheRedneckTechie. He's mounted a small LCD monitor, a motion sensitive mouse, and the guts of a controller onto a toy gun. It's much much cooler than it sounds. Here's an example: