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scarycrayons

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scarycrayons

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@scarycrayons said:
@adamwd said:

I don't support any of this GamerGate crap, but I'm just curious, where did Anita Sarkeesian come from? I never heard of her contributing to the industry in any form prior to all this internet drama. I can't find anything stating that she has any kind of background in the industry. It seems like she just showed up out of nowhere and started complaining about everything imaginable. Am I missing something here? Seems like the attitude towards women in games has gotten worse since she arrived.

She started out with a series of YouTube videos where she criticised everything in media as being sexist or misogynistic. As a quick example, she claimed the song 'All I Want For Christmas is You' contributed to rape culture and the patriarchy because in her eyes, a woman showing happiness and affection for her partner is not about love, it's about a woman portrayed as only needing a man, hence patriarchy/rape culture. It's a viewpoint that I personally disagree with.

Pretty much all of her videos before her gaming ones had this pattern, finding something that people consider normal, and then declaring it as contributing to misogyny for reasons that, to me, are odd. One of those videos was about the original Bayonetta, judging the entire game purely from a trailer, and stated "Everything about Bayonetta is offensive, except that she's a mom."

That one got a lot of backlash and criticism from people who played games because it seemed to blur the line between lack of research, and intentionally baiting people. The conversation typically went "But she isn't a mom?" "Well, I guess Bayonetta is even more disgusting of a product than I thought! Yuck!"

After getting a huge response from people who played games (compared to her previous videos about Christmas songs and the such), that's when she started a kickstarter requesting money to make more videos like the Bayonetta one.

That's when a lot of people who had seen her Bayonetta and earlier videos became angry about her wanting money to make even more videos like it (especially given her idea of 'negative' tropes, where visually strong women are just 'Mrs. Males' and non-visually strong women are 'Fighting Fuck Toys'), and that's when a lot of gaming websites first started reporting on how 'the gamers are attacking and trying to silence feminists.'

I wonder how much of this is hyperbole.

None of it, unfortunately. If it helps, searching YouTube for her earlier videos should provide some context.

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scarycrayons

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#2  Edited By scarycrayons
@adamwd said:

I don't support any of this GamerGate crap, but I'm just curious, where did Anita Sarkeesian come from? I never heard of her contributing to the industry in any form prior to all this internet drama. I can't find anything stating that she has any kind of background in the industry. It seems like she just showed up out of nowhere and started complaining about everything imaginable. Am I missing something here? Seems like the attitude towards women in games has gotten worse since she arrived.

She started out with a series of YouTube videos where she criticised everything in media as being sexist or misogynistic. As a quick example, she claimed the song 'All I Want For Christmas is You' contributed to rape culture and the patriarchy because in her eyes, a woman showing happiness and affection for her partner is not about love, it's about a woman portrayed as only needing a man, hence patriarchy/rape culture. It's a viewpoint that I personally disagree with.

Pretty much all of her videos before her gaming ones had this pattern, finding something that people consider normal, and then declaring it as contributing to misogyny for reasons that, to me, are odd. One of those videos was about the original Bayonetta, judging the entire game purely from a trailer, and stated "Everything about Bayonetta is offensive, except that she's a mom."

That one got a lot of backlash and criticism from people who played games because it seemed to blur the line between lack of research, and intentionally baiting people. The conversation typically went "But she isn't a mom?" "Well, I guess Bayonetta is even more disgusting of a product than I thought! Yuck!"

After getting a huge response from people who played games (compared to her previous videos about Christmas songs and the such), that's when she started a kickstarter requesting money to make more videos like the Bayonetta one.

That's when a lot of people who had seen her Bayonetta and earlier videos became angry about her wanting money to make even more videos like it (especially given her idea of 'negative' tropes, where visually strong women are just 'Mrs. Males' and non-visually strong women are 'Fighting Fuck Toys'), and that's when a lot of gaming websites first started reporting on how 'the gamers are attacking and trying to silence feminists.'

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scarycrayons

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I tend to liken Dynasty Warriors games to games like Puzzle Quest or Diablo 3. Sure, they might seem complete opposites in terms of gameplay at first glance, but the core appeal is the same-- doing something relatively simple and enjoying levelling up, unlocking new weapons, bosses, locations, spells/elemental orbs, and so on. There's a story, but you're mainly playing for the objectives that each stage gives you.

It's definitely repetitive, but it's also definitely fun for me to play when I just want to kick back and enjoy some video games. It's far more enjoyable for me to play a Dynasty Warriors stage for half an hour while listening to TV/podcasts/etc than most other games genres.

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@demokk said:

"Not per se, but creating characters that serve no other purpose but mere eye candy is sexual objectification." - Thankfully, there are very few characters that only exist for eye candy. Unless you're talking about, say, characters in the stadium of a football game, or passers by in an open-world game, or something like that. I can't actually think of a character that only exists for eye-candy, I'm sure there must be one somewhere, but it's certainly not prevalent if I can't think of any. Maybe fashion games like Style Boutique, where NPCs come to get a makeover? Even then, I don't think that's sexist. Those characters want to look more beautiful because it feels great to look beautiful. There are plenty of dudes in games that only exist for you to kill though, for what it's worth.

"What one culture may find funny, another culture may find it as the worst possible offense. Every person has the right to express their own opinions and perceptions." - Sure, everyone should be able to give their viewpoint. However, just because some people may find something offensive, doesn't mean that it's a problem with the game. It just means that if somebody finds a particular topic dislikeable, they should probably avoid playing that game, rather than trying to say that it shouldn't exist. If people enjoy something that doesn't cause any harm, and I should state that playing video games does not cause harm or turn people sexist in similar ways to how playing Doom does not turn people violent, it should just be left to the people that enjoy it.

"Media does contribute [to rape culture] to an extent." - I disagree. Nothing I've seen in the media contributes to normalising rape. The only thing it does is make people paranoid that they could be raped at any time, which isn't as likely as people seem to think.

"Care to explain why [the thing about Mario] it isn't a valid point?" - Super Mario Bros is not about the ball game of patriarchy, the princess is not a reward, it does not contribute to rape culture, Miyamoto does not 'frequently show his misogynistic nature.' That's why it isn't a valid point. There wasn't anything valid there.

"Your gender does not make you immune to the effect culture has on you. Women can internalize sexism as much as men." - Nobody said that women were immune. As for inferring that I'm "internalising sexism," that's a really, really silly thing to claim, to the point where it's hard to even respond to that leap of logic. Nothing that I've said or supported is sexist. Why would you think I've internalised sexism?

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#5  Edited By scarycrayons
@heyguys said:

Well would you want your video games dominated by sexism and misogyny (they're different BTW) even if you believed they didn't contribute to negative attitudes towards women in real life?

I don't necessarily find Sarkeesian to be a great persuader but sexism in games is hard to deny [...]

I think different people, and especially different cultures and backgrounds, have different ideas as to what 'sexism' is.

I see games like Dead or Alive 5 and find that the characters are all pretty equal. The girls are attractive, the guys are attractive. There's a 50% male/female ratio in terms of playable characters. I love the sheer quantity of stylish costumes, though it has to be said that the women get something like seven costumes each and the guys only get three or four each. It has really solid fighting mechanics, and is spectacular to watch experts play.

In short, I don't find any of that sexist, except for the fact that guys don't get as many costumes, in which case they're a tiny bias against the male characters but that's fairly understandable given that women's fashions have a wider variety of choice.

However, when I speak to many people online, amongst which are usually guys from America (I'm a girl from England), they think that Dead or Alive is the most sexist and misogynistic game there is. "It's only popular because of the boobs!" "Ugh nobody buys DOA for the gameplay it's just to watch girls jiggle" "I can't believe they still allow that to be sold." "I heard that if you turn the age to 99 the breasts bounce even MORE!" "It's a fetish game so guys can beat up girls, gross."

It's really, really weird to me. It's like the entire game suddenly has zero merit to them, just because they animated the character's full bodies, rather than deliberately not animating certain parts that they find offensive for reasons they can't actually explain. Quite frankly, it's waayyy weirder to me when games have the female characters look like they're carrying a single cement block strapped to their chest under their clothes when the rest of their limbs/bodies are constantly moving.

Outside of the games specifically designed to be sexist (RapeLay is the one that always springs to mind, just for its name, or Duke Nukem 3D which was more tongue-in-cheek), I think it's very easy to show that barely any games at all are "dominated by sexism and misogyny," and even easier to show that video games don't turn people into women-haters given how much support both sides are trying to give support to women.

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#6  Edited By scarycrayons

I agree that it's good to have fun.

I don't think I'd agree that calling everything sexist and name-calling someone a nutjob conservabot is my personal idea of fun. I mean, I don't think that should be stopped, but it does mean I can't take anything that person was saying seriously. Doubly so when he was putting words into her mouth throughout that article, like when she said that guys typically like playing as men, and like attractive female characters, the article author twists that into her saying that "all men are sexist."

That's why a lot of people disagree with most of the things Anita says; She takes a quote completely out of context and twists it to suit her goal.

Remember when she said that the song 'I saw mommy kissing santa claus' was creepy because it was about a lady cheating on her husband and making out with Santa Claus instead, and subjecting her child to it? Then saying "even if it was the kid's dad, ugh *shivers*" as if a kid seeing his parents kiss is somehow on the same level as sexually abusing a child? That's what that whole article came across like. I'm sorry that your friend wrote that, but I have to say that I disagree with it entirely. I'd make a response in its comments, but other people have already brought up my issues, and he just brushed them off as if the criticism was invalid.

<Commenter> "What. Yes your words. She doesn't say it's sexist, you do."
<Article writer> "Seriously? This is the argument you're going with?"

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I'm just hoping that the playsets have more effort and budget put into them, and the toybox mode is as enhanced as much as they claim.

I liked the first Disney Infinity but it was definitely not as powerful as it claimed to be. Some of the playsets (specifically the Toy Story in Space one) were absolute trainwrecks, with awful voice acting, an incredibly generic setting with not much to do, and just not being fun to play. That, and they treated the franchise as if they were actually in space and could teleport around, completely missing the whole point that they're supposed to be toys. The toybox mode was incredibly limited where it was just arranging prefab blocks as best you can, so all the levels kind of ended up looking the same, and it crashed often (at least, it did on the Wii U version).

I'm excited for 2.0, but it's mainly in hope that they've had time to develop the game and not rush everything this time around. Being able to make interiors in the toybox mode as well as using game pieces (like tower defence and dungeons) sounds great! I just hope it's not as overpromising as the first one was. "Anything you imagine, you can create! ...as long as it's made out of these cliff blocks and a swinging hammer and a firework shooter."

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Wait, what was this? The youtube video linked is now private. I love PT, so if this was some more PT, I would totally want to see it!

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#9  Edited By scarycrayons

I just wish people would be more open-minded and less restrictive, and wish that everybody remembers that:

- Sexy characters isn't a sign of sexism.
- Everything needs to be taken in the context that it is presented.
- Just because one person finds the female body gross or creepy doesn't mean that it's "problematic and troublesome." (I honestly think there's a lot of homophobic tendencies going around from some women, where they are repulsed by seeing other women wearing anything less than a full body outfit.)
- Playing a video game does not contribute to "rape culture."
- Comedy is about subverting expectations to surprise people, and have the surprise make people laugh at its absurdity, not subverting expectations because you think it should be normal.

Diversity in games is always a good thing! There should be games of all kinds, and I totally welcome different approaches to game design and visual design.

I'm just tired of people trying to claim that games that are totally fine are 'wrong and bad' and that the creators are scum for making them. It's frustrating to hear things like "Super Mario Bros is about the ball game of patriarchy where the princess is a reward and it contributes to rape culture, Miyamoto frequently shows his misogynistic nature" and so many people think it's a totally valid point.

It isn't. It really, really isn't.

(It's also frustrating being a girl, and have people assume I'm a 'gross neckbeard MRA' or whatever whenever I try to explain this to people online. That's a good case of actual sexism, as opposed to Mario trying to restore power to the Princess so she can rule over the kingdom again.)

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@j12088: change 04 to 15, 05 to 07 then the second 04 to 15 should do it.

Thanks so much for this!

I guess the problem was that the site doesn't properly recognise what midnight is. 00:00 is the very start of the 16th, and isn't on the 15th at all.