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Turambar

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08th MS Team: When the Father of Real Robot Shows Gets Real

Mobile Suit Gundam made its debut in 1979, and legitimized the entire real robot genre as something people wanted to watch.  Up until then, mecha anime was

     BREAST FIRE!!!!
 BREAST FIRE!!!!
dominated by Super Robots.  Flashy attacks, screaming out attack names, and neigh infinite power sources that broke every law of physics were common place and incredibly popular.  What Gundam helped popularize was the concept of robots not being invincible.  Realistic weapons such as plain old guns (giant guns but guns none the less) replaced the absurd like rocket punches and yo-yos.  Energy and ammo became actual things that could run out in a fight, and the fictional world developed real wo r ld physics such as Larange Points as well as fake, but realistic sounding such as Minovsky Physics that helped create clean nuclear reactors.  It was a far step from the world of "Super Alloy Z" and "Photon Power."
 
     Twin Buster Rifle Anyone
 Twin Buster Rifle Anyone
Thus it is even more ironic that Gundam could never pierce the realm of quasi-realism with its own Gundams.  For example, the Zeta Gundam from G undam Z (the sequel to the first show) is literally powered by the spirits of dead newtypes and magic.  The Nu Gundam and the Sazabiboth use psycommu systems , which in layman's terms are giant megaphones for a newtype's ESP-esque powers.  Victory Gundam had giant girls in bikinis in space (Look I don't even know what...).  The list goes on and on, and all the more so as we go from the Universal Century universe to the many Alternate Universe Gundam shows where Gundams are super robots in everything but name.  These Gundams are ominpotent beings that can only be defeated by other Gundams.  It doesn't stop just at the mecha design, but is applied to the combat itself.  The rule of cool makes melee oriented combat a continued must in a world where ranged weaponry are common place.  The samurai-like design choice for the iconic RX-78-2 Gundam doesn't help things.    
 
Lastly, there are the pilots.  They are constantly aces, often newtypes or some analog for a newtype.  Capable of seemingly swinging the tide of battles single handedly, their plot armor means they not only cannot be killed, they cannot even be touched or damaged by the common soldier.  Much like how Gundams can be taken down only by other Gundams, these aces are only capable of falling at the hands of each other.
 
And then there is the 08th MS Team.  It succeeds, or perhaps is the only show to even attempt to bring Gundams down to earth, making them just another war machine instead of the stars of 30 minute long toy ads.
 
The first thing worth noting is most easily demonstrated with a simple viewing of the show's OP.
  
    
Ok, I lied.  Many things are in fact evident through this OP, but lets take it one step at a time.  We are treated to a scene showing the effect of terrain on mecha.  A mere gunboat out maneuvering a Gundam in water is seen about half a minute in.  Moments where the show almost admits to the fact that treads are better than bipedal legs for mechs are common in this show, or at least common compared to most other mecha shows, regardless of being real robot or super robot in genre.  The second episode has the show's main protagonist Shiro Amada finding trouble getting his footing in a jungle battlefield, letting his Gundam trip and fall in the process.  Too much sand getting caught in the machinery causes mechanical failure while oxygen preservation in zero g environments become focuses at different points. 
 
Another point is the lack of flash and bravado in that OP.  There is an emphasis on the soldiers fighting the war, not the mecha.  You see a gundam firing but once in the OP, and it very much lacks the "one man against the world vibe" that many over Gundam show openings give.  The contents of the show does not betray what the OP offers.  The 08th Mobile Suit team is composed of 3 gundams.  But always in toll, and constantly shown to be invaluable by the show itself, is an armored support tank that houses sensitive electronic senors.  Further, instead of one man armies, we get squad and army tactics.  The assault on an enemy base is not done by the main characters charging in, but by the systematic bombardment of long range artillery units while the gundams play babysitter to these units and keep them safe.  The attack on a few Zakus occupying a civilian village is done by Shiro, on foot, using a few hand held RPGs while the rest of his team provide long range cover.  Compare the previous OP to this one, belonging to Gundam Seed Destiny and the beam spaming Strike Freedom Gundam.
 
...Actually no, fuck you, you go find them.  It physically hurts even watching one, and the music sucks too except for the 4th opening which has Vestige.  Have some Gundam 00.  It proves my point just the same.
    
  
The combat in the show are not flashy either.  Though due partly to the in world chronology where miniaturized beam weapons were still very far from commonplace, there is little to no pew pewing in this show.  Instead of lasers of every color under the sun, we get 100 mm machine guns, rocket launchers, and RPGs.  This in effect makes fights last longer and almost less deadly as even a Zaku's armor can take multiple shots before succumbing while able to dish back significant blows.  Melee combat is also significantly reduced.  Beam sabers are drawn a total of 3 or 4 times over the course of the entire show, and always in desperation.  In a world of guns, 08th MS Team ditches the rule of cool and embraces the logic that shooting each other is far better a choice than running up and slashing.  
 
And lastly, there are the pilots.  Following the theme of the show, these are not aces, but rather grunts.  Grunts that can come out on top against other grunts, but grunts none the less.  They aren't the most skilled, and the fact that they are actually capable of missing their shots gives the combat a degree of tension not usually existent when your protagonists are aces.  In fact, when the 08th team finally bumps heads against the only pilot worthy of being called an ace in the entire show, they are pushed to the brink and given a sound trouncing as seen below.  Note: obvious spoilers.
 
 
This is the ending where I'm suppose to say some concluding thoughts that tie up all the points I made so far.  But I suck at those, so please imagine one for yourself.
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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar

Mobile Suit Gundam made its debut in 1979, and legitimized the entire real robot genre as something people wanted to watch.  Up until then, mecha anime was

     BREAST FIRE!!!!
 BREAST FIRE!!!!
dominated by Super Robots.  Flashy attacks, screaming out attack names, and neigh infinite power sources that broke every law of physics were common place and incredibly popular.  What Gundam helped popularize was the concept of robots not being invincible.  Realistic weapons such as plain old guns (giant guns but guns none the less) replaced the absurd like rocket punches and yo-yos.  Energy and ammo became actual things that could run out in a fight, and the fictional world developed real wo r ld physics such as Larange Points as well as fake, but realistic sounding such as Minovsky Physics that helped create clean nuclear reactors.  It was a far step from the world of "Super Alloy Z" and "Photon Power."
 
     Twin Buster Rifle Anyone
 Twin Buster Rifle Anyone
Thus it is even more ironic that Gundam could never pierce the realm of quasi-realism with its own Gundams.  For example, the Zeta Gundam from G undam Z (the sequel to the first show) is literally powered by the spirits of dead newtypes and magic.  The Nu Gundam and the Sazabiboth use psycommu systems , which in layman's terms are giant megaphones for a newtype's ESP-esque powers.  Victory Gundam had giant girls in bikinis in space (Look I don't even know what...).  The list goes on and on, and all the more so as we go from the Universal Century universe to the many Alternate Universe Gundam shows where Gundams are super robots in everything but name.  These Gundams are ominpotent beings that can only be defeated by other Gundams.  It doesn't stop just at the mecha design, but is applied to the combat itself.  The rule of cool makes melee oriented combat a continued must in a world where ranged weaponry are common place.  The samurai-like design choice for the iconic RX-78-2 Gundam doesn't help things.    
 
Lastly, there are the pilots.  They are constantly aces, often newtypes or some analog for a newtype.  Capable of seemingly swinging the tide of battles single handedly, their plot armor means they not only cannot be killed, they cannot even be touched or damaged by the common soldier.  Much like how Gundams can be taken down only by other Gundams, these aces are only capable of falling at the hands of each other.
 
And then there is the 08th MS Team.  It succeeds, or perhaps is the only show to even attempt to bring Gundams down to earth, making them just another war machine instead of the stars of 30 minute long toy ads.
 
The first thing worth noting is most easily demonstrated with a simple viewing of the show's OP.
  
    
Ok, I lied.  Many things are in fact evident through this OP, but lets take it one step at a time.  We are treated to a scene showing the effect of terrain on mecha.  A mere gunboat out maneuvering a Gundam in water is seen about half a minute in.  Moments where the show almost admits to the fact that treads are better than bipedal legs for mechs are common in this show, or at least common compared to most other mecha shows, regardless of being real robot or super robot in genre.  The second episode has the show's main protagonist Shiro Amada finding trouble getting his footing in a jungle battlefield, letting his Gundam trip and fall in the process.  Too much sand getting caught in the machinery causes mechanical failure while oxygen preservation in zero g environments become focuses at different points. 
 
Another point is the lack of flash and bravado in that OP.  There is an emphasis on the soldiers fighting the war, not the mecha.  You see a gundam firing but once in the OP, and it very much lacks the "one man against the world vibe" that many over Gundam show openings give.  The contents of the show does not betray what the OP offers.  The 08th Mobile Suit team is composed of 3 gundams.  But always in toll, and constantly shown to be invaluable by the show itself, is an armored support tank that houses sensitive electronic senors.  Further, instead of one man armies, we get squad and army tactics.  The assault on an enemy base is not done by the main characters charging in, but by the systematic bombardment of long range artillery units while the gundams play babysitter to these units and keep them safe.  The attack on a few Zakus occupying a civilian village is done by Shiro, on foot, using a few hand held RPGs while the rest of his team provide long range cover.  Compare the previous OP to this one, belonging to Gundam Seed Destiny and the beam spaming Strike Freedom Gundam.
 
...Actually no, fuck you, you go find them.  It physically hurts even watching one, and the music sucks too except for the 4th opening which has Vestige.  Have some Gundam 00.  It proves my point just the same.
    
  
The combat in the show are not flashy either.  Though due partly to the in world chronology where miniaturized beam weapons were still very far from commonplace, there is little to no pew pewing in this show.  Instead of lasers of every color under the sun, we get 100 mm machine guns, rocket launchers, and RPGs.  This in effect makes fights last longer and almost less deadly as even a Zaku's armor can take multiple shots before succumbing while able to dish back significant blows.  Melee combat is also significantly reduced.  Beam sabers are drawn a total of 3 or 4 times over the course of the entire show, and always in desperation.  In a world of guns, 08th MS Team ditches the rule of cool and embraces the logic that shooting each other is far better a choice than running up and slashing.  
 
And lastly, there are the pilots.  Following the theme of the show, these are not aces, but rather grunts.  Grunts that can come out on top against other grunts, but grunts none the less.  They aren't the most skilled, and the fact that they are actually capable of missing their shots gives the combat a degree of tension not usually existent when your protagonists are aces.  In fact, when the 08th team finally bumps heads against the only pilot worthy of being called an ace in the entire show, they are pushed to the brink and given a sound trouncing as seen below.  Note: obvious spoilers.
 
 
This is the ending where I'm suppose to say some concluding thoughts that tie up all the points I made so far.  But I suck at those, so please imagine one for yourself.
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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar

Hmm, no matter how I try to edit it, that weird indentation in the first paragraph seem to refuse to go away.  I can't move the Mazinger image any higher either to even out the top line.  Anyone know how to fix that issue?  Its bugging the hell out of me.

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dyram

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Edited By dyram

There is a reason why 08th MS Team is by far my favorite of the Gundam franchise. This show brings a much more down-to-earth feel to the giant mecha combat, makes it get all dirty (literally), and shows a more human perspective on a world filled with giant piloted robots that fight each other. It's a gritty world that uses mobile suits as really just another part of the military arsenal. They have their flaws, but are still by far the most powerful and dangerous pieces of equipment on the battlefield. 
 
This is a good post you've made. I would highly suggest that anyone interested look into 08th MS Team, as it's a short, solid little series that sets itself apart from the pack and is quite entertaining for its adherence to more realism than any other Gundam show.

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TheCreamFilling

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Edited By TheCreamFilling

I don't really like anime, but I actually bought this series on DVD because of the more "realistic" depictions of giant robots.

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The_Laughing_Man

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I grew up on the original with "Herro" and his buddies. I really enjoyed that. Gundam 00 looked kinda interesting as well. Might give that a watch. 

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Edited By Arestice

The 08th MS Team is my favorite series from Gundam, oddly followed by G Gundam, then Zeta and the original 0079. Also noting it has my favorite Gundam fight scene, which you've posted with the Gouf Custom, hot damn I loved that scene! I'm not a big fan of the flipping/fluid motions Gundam seems to favor now a days. (Excluding G Gundam of course, mostly for nostalgia reasons). 
 
Actually thinking about it, it might be because I like western style mech combat (like Chrome Hounds) than the common eastern style (Armored Core etc). 
I digress, good post.

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Simulacrum

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Edited By Simulacrum

Watching 08th MS team makes me wish someone would develop a Gundam sim.

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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar
@Arestice said:
The 08th MS Team is my favorite series from Gundam, oddly followed by G Gundam, then Zeta and the original 0079. Also noting it has my favorite Gundam fight scene, which you've posted with the Gouf Custom, hot damn I loved that scene! I'm not a big fan of the flipping/fluid motions Gundam seems to favor now a days. (Excluding G Gundam of course, mostly for nostalgia reasons).  Actually thinking about it, it might be because I like western style mech combat (like Chrome Hounds) than the common eastern style (Armored Core etc). I digress, good post.
That can also be attributed to the environment in which those fights take place.  Newer Gundam shows have flight capabilities innate to the mechs or simply take place in space, thus allowing for more dynamic combat sequences with a lot more motion.  The RX-79[G] is just a suit built from the spare parts of the original and customized for ground combat, so walking and running is all it has, which in the hands of a grunt like Shiro makes it's movements far slower and a bit clumsier.
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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar
@Simulacrum said:

Watching 08th MS team makes me wish someone would develop a Gundam sim.

They exist, but are almost all Japanese only.  Battle Field Records UC0081 will probably never come out here, but seems to fall into that category.  I personally just want that full immersion Gundam arcade game to somehow find its way here.  They look insane.
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@Turambar: Guess I got more reason to finally start learning Japanese then.
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Edited By VanTesla

I enjoyed this show very much when I was younger and felt a bit sad how the two main characters ended up so damaged and must live in exile. Atleast they have each other, and some kids...
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Edited By jmfinamore

08th MS Team is by far the best piece of Gundam work in my opinion. Most of the other shows are way too out there/anime-y, but 08th did a great job of making everything feel real (er). 

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Edited By rb_man

Personalty I love Gundam but I can't stand how in recent years it has all been trying to recapture the war drama with annoying teens bitching about problems no one cares about and then try to be sympathetic after kill like 100 people. 08th MS team had great chars that were both likable and who you gave a shit about.

The number one thing I wish Gundam would stop doing is trying to market to teenage girls.

Also if you like 08th MS team check out F91 it has some similar things going for it.

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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar
@rb_man said:

Personalty I love Gundam but I can't stand how in recent years it has all been trying to recapture the war drama with annoying teens bitching about problems no one cares about and then try to be sympathetic after kill like 100 people. 08th MS team had great chars that were both likable and who you gave a shit about.

The number one thing I wish Gundam would stop doing is trying to market to teenage girls.

Also if you like 08th MS team check out F91 it has some similar things going for it.

I'll have to disagree with you there.  Part of the reason I didn't mention the plot was because I felt it to be the weaker part of the show.  Had it been a story simply of Shiro's experiences in the war, never forgiving Zeon for the gassing of Side 2, but also learning to not hate them, it'd be fine.  But the Romeo and Juliet-esque relationship between him and Aina simply felt extremely off.  There wasn't enough screen time revolving Aina to make me care about her.  I knew that she was a tool of her brother's in the development of the Aspalus, but that was really all I knew. 
 
And while Shiro never became a lolpacifist, the moment he screamed "stop it" when rescue units from both sides came to find them at the wreckage of the Aspalus and his Gundam, I had to sigh in disappointment just a little bit because how out of place it felt thematically to the grittier war tale the show up until then had composed of.
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@Turambar said:

@rb_man said:

Personalty I love Gundam but I can't stand how in recent years it has all been trying to recapture the war drama with annoying teens bitching about problems no one cares about and then try to be sympathetic after kill like 100 people. 08th MS team had great chars that were both likable and who you gave a shit about.

The number one thing I wish Gundam would stop doing is trying to market to teenage girls.

Also if you like 08th MS team check out F91 it has some similar things going for it.

I'll have to disagree with you there. Part of the reason I didn't mention the plot was because I felt it to be the weaker part of the show. Had it been a story simply of Shiro's experiences in the war, never forgiving Zeon for the gassing of Side 2, but also learning to not hate them, it'd be fine. But the Romeo and Juliet-esque relationship between him and Aina simply felt extremely off. There wasn't enough screen time revolving Aina to make me care about her. I knew that she was a tool of her brother's in the development of the Aspalus, but that was really all I knew.

If you ask me you can't have a Gundam show with out a shity love story. But what I mean by I like the chars is the fact most of them at lest for me feel like the same stereotypical anime people. Also I an pretty sure i did not say any thing about the plot of this show witch was week but a lot stronger that most other Gundam plots.

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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar
@The_Laughing_Man said:

I grew up on the original with "Herro" and his buddies. I really enjoyed that. Gundam 00 looked kinda interesting as well. Might give that a watch. 

The first season was alright.  The second season....lets just say....
Mister Bushido.  His first name is Mister.
Mister Bushido.  His first name is Mister.
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@Turambar said:
@The_Laughing_Man said:

I grew up on the original with "Herro" and his buddies. I really enjoyed that. Gundam 00 looked kinda interesting as well. Might give that a watch. 

The first season was alright.  The second season....lets just say....
Mister Bushido.  His first name is Mister.
Mister Bushido.  His first name is Mister.
Heh. But the suits got pretty cool. And heros constant battle with insanity was fun to watch.
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Turambar

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Edited By Turambar
@The_Laughing_Man: Wait, did you mean Heero?  I thought you were typing out the sounds that Haro makes phonetically.  Also that's an image out of 00's second season.  Just letting you know what sorts of ridiculousness you're gonna be in for.
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@Turambar said:
@The_Laughing_Man: Wait, did you mean Heero?  I thought you were typing out the sounds that Haro makes phonetically.
Sorry ya. Heero. 
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Edited By kingzetta

08th was great because it's what normal people were doing during the war.
it's like the saving private Ryan of gundam shows, Where all other gundam shows are Captain America punching hitler out.

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Edited By ThePhantomnaut

GUNDAM WITH ACTUAL GUNS.

BULLETS AND SHIT!!!!

My favorite Gundam OVA.

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Turambar

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@kingzetta said:
08th was great because it's what normal people were doing during the war. it's like the saving private Ryan of gundam shows, Where all other gundam shows are Captain America punching hitler out.
There are actually quite a few other OVAs as well as games that fill in the various hot spots of the One Year War not covered by the original anime.  08th MS Team, War In the Pocket, and MS IGLOO as well as (unfortunately Japan only) games like Rise From the Ashes and Zeonic Front help fill in a lot of the holes.
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Edited By N7

Dude. that show is my sex. With the original Gundam series, the 08th MS Team is by far my favorite. I used to watch it along with Outlaw Star and Dragonball Z(Android Saga) on Toonami.

In fact, about two years ago I subscribed to this anime streaming website JUST so I could watch this show again, in its entirety.

This show also convinced me how much better the Japanese voices are compared to the English voices. Seriously, eeew.

And I also agree that we need a Gundam sim. Like, full out into the mythology of the most realistic shows by some developer in Sweden or something.