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TyCobb

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Automating SaltyBet - My Live and Ongoing Adventure - DONE!!

Updated with Version DONE!! (2013.08.13) - See bottom of post.

I have been needing something to keep me busy lately and I always try to think of something to program since for the past several months my job as a developer has turned into the world's highest paid support job. Today I decided to try and automate SaltyBet. You may want to ask why. My preemptive reply to you is, why not?

Originally I was planning on just using Selenium and popping Java open, but quickly found I can do everything I want with the WebBrowser control in WPF (sure it's IE, but I can easily embed it into the application).

Quick rundown of what my current goals are. (Strike = Done!)

  • Allow betting from inside my application.
  • Setup a database to track as many statistics as I can in order to predict fight outcomes.
  • Record wins/losses
  • Allow certain stats to be manually entered to help calculate odds.
  • Attempt to find a way to handle characters that have the same name. (Not going to actually happen)
  • Make it so I don't have to log into SaltyBet.com every damn time I open to application. (Screw it)

The trickiest part of all is how I am going to handle splitting up stats based on characters with the same name. The information that is available is severely limited. I can get the name of the fighters, betting status (open and locked), and whatever else appears in standard text on the screen. My best shot is probably attempting to capture parts of the character avatar next to the health meter. This will cause me to try and force the Twitch player into running at a specific size so all my captured avatars are the same size no matter what size the window is. If that fails, I may just check a box to not bet when a character with several variations are found.

So yea, that's what I am trying to do and I plan on keeping this updated as I go.

Version 0.01:

Currently I can make my bets through the application for either Player 1 or Player 2. Now that the necessary prerequisites are fulfilled, I can start on all of the fun pieces.

Version 0.02:

Bet States are now being tracked. Database has also been created so I can now start logging fight results. My StreamPlayer is now constantly checking for updates on a background thread. It is currently keeping track of the fight and knows if the bets are open or locked. It's also checking for results.

No Caption Provided

I am also capturing fight lengths. Currently once betting becomes closed it will set the start time and once the results are posted it will save and determine the length in seconds. I am not sure how I am going to weigh this data, but figured I would get it in there now.

Below is what I just captured before updating this blog. The records that show 0 seconds are ones that I started recording in the middle of the fight. I built in logic to not record the times for those since it would be wrong.

No one can touch Alien Queen!
No one can touch Alien Queen!

Version 0.03:

Currently this whole time while I have been doing stuff here and there and implementing the current set of changes, Version 0.02 has been running and logging all results without issue. So far I have recorded 68 fights and Mature is leading 2-0 having fought against Kyosuke Kagami (Although it's Kagami Kyosuke on SaltyBet) and Spawn.

So what have I done so far? I implemented a quick character editor in order to start playing around with implementing rules for betting. My plan is to have Rank relate to a tier list (pretty sure it will be renamed Tier in the next update). This will be for implementing rules based on tiers instead of individual characters. Right now, I just have the following:

  • Standard (For weighing character stats)
  • Always Bet (You know you have favorite characters)
  • Never Bet (Why waste the time and chance when you know they will just suck!)
No Caption Provided

That's about it. My goal for tomorrow (if I have time after work) will be to start writing the rules. I am hoping I have plenty of data by then. This baby will be running all night all day (if nothing crashes...) mining me my salt data. I may set up a Google Doc tomorrow that will contain all the data I found so far.

Stat Update!

It's been logging fights all night. Currently I have recorded 232 fights. Cyclops, Lavos Spawn, Saint Kyo, and Super Skrull all have 3-0 records since I started recording yesterday.

I also added my results so far to this Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As6_wRKX9cgtdFFTaXpxYnZIRHE4QlNrVG12a0xQSGc&usp=sharing

The ResultDate in the spreadsheet is in UTC so you if you are actually wanting to use it for something, you may want to convert them to your time zone first.

Version 0.04

Well, I broke 500 fights being recorded and over 600 characters logged. Unfortunately, this is missing the most recent 7 hours of fights because my internet went down about 5 minutes after I went to bed.

Currently I have it giving me fight records at the top and a predicted outcome. The predicted winner and reason is saved with the fight. I plan on using this to refine the logic on who to bet on. My goal is to also use this in order to give me stats on how good the predictions are. It is automatically betting for me right now, but it isn't very good yet and won't be until I start filling in the character editor above to tell it to just not bet on certain people. I really need to implement the tier system, but probably won't get to that until later in this week.

No Caption Provided

The Google Doc has also been updated with my current fight results. Still really pissed about missing the last 7 hours though....

Version 0.05

Was able to get in some of the rules I wanted to implement last night, but couldn't. I added in logic to check for new challengers (characters I haven't logged yet). If one of the characters is up against a new challenger, I now weigh on the fact if they have previously won a match and their win percentage is at 50% or more. If not then I will automatically bet the new challenger.

I was able to also import @itwongo's fight results so I have more data to work with. That has currently put me at over 800 fight results to use as data. This is mostly all before my current rules were in place. Most of it was relying on random bets if I didn't have enough data to work with. I am hoping that once I get the ranking and tier system implemented I can hit a 70% win rate. Currently I am just betting $100 and sitting at $3250 which I started at $684.

Version 0.06 (2013.08.07)

Completely cleaned up the rules I had quickly implemented earlier. Since I was planning on adding more and making it configurable down the line, I figured it was best to refactor them out into their own little system.

It also allowed me to quickly whip a small form to test the currently programmed rules. Yes, I could have wrote some unit tests, but I wanted a form in order to easily play around with configuration options later. Also will let me play around with setting wager types and tiers on characters.

I wonder if this will actually ring true. My data does not show they have fought yet.
I wonder if this will actually ring true. My data does not show they have fought yet.

Current prediction stats after implementing new rules:

WinsLosses
All Predictions1438164%
New Rule Set19773%
New Rule Set - Without Falling Back to Random Choice17480%

I am curious what those numbers will be tomorrow morning. When I say "Falling Back", I am referring to the fact that none of my rules determined a winner. This can be if both characters have 0 wins or if someone new showed up that I do not have data and is fighting against someone with a win-loss ratio less than 50%.

Now that I have all of this, I believe it is time to start implementing ranks/tiers. But we shall see. I'll probably get sidetracked by something else.

Version 0.07 (2013.08.10)

Well, development had been halted for a few days. Video card fried and my computer apparently does not boot unless there is a good video card installed. Well, last night I used a brand new GTX 770 to watch SaltyBet instead of testing out with games.

So, what did I do? I implemented a new fight rule. This will try to determine the winner based on if Player 1 has defeated someone that Player 2 lost to. It is currently checking 100 levels deep. I went with 100 because I was having a hard time actually finding a scenario where this rule would hit. Basically when I say 100 levels deep, I am referring to checking all of Player 2's loss winners and then checking their loss winners to see if Player 1 possibly has a chance. It only triggered twice last night while sleeping and predicted the winner once. I've already noticed an issue while writing this that I will need to correct.

I cannot tell if auto-balancing is going to kick my ass in this project or severely help me out. I am still at only 70% prediction rate, but starting at $700 last night and betting $50 has put me at $1600. Usually I would be lower than this because the payout odds are so one sided I can win 6 matches in a row and only have like +$25 and then the very next match lose and be at -$25. The only real safe bet is $1 or $2, but that's just dumb.

I think I just need more data. Those last 2 days of not recording any stats has really put a dent in things. With the auto-balance now, I am curious if my win ratio will stay close to 72% which is where I have always floated around.

Auto-balancing has made me rethink implementing ranks. It almost feels as though it will have zero impact.

Version 0.08 (2013.08.13)

Rankings! They have been introduced. After spending a couple of days slamming my head into my desk, I finally got base rankings sorted out. Thanks to my good friend Jameson and Bacardi, I was able to pull through my issues.

Basically it worked like this:

  • Seed certain characters with specific rank values. This being who I thought was better or worse than another character. I think I seeded something like 20 or so characters out of 1,200+.
  • Once those were in place, I looped through all my recorded fights. Roughly about 2,600 last night when I did it. I basically just started checking winner and loser ranks to determine if the winner should move up or if the loser should move down. I didn't just loop through once though. I replayed all the fights about 30 times in order to help spread out the characters and ranks as much as I could.
  • After that, I re-predicted all my recorded fights without using the Rematch Rule (if x character beat y character, bet on x). I achieved a 97% prediction rate. This means something was done correctly =)

So what does the bot currently do? It bets based on ranks and if the ranks match, it runs other rules based on wins and percentages. It is also checking fight outcomes and trying to determine if the character should be moved up a rank if it won or down if it lost. I think my logic on this is a little too safe, meaning it takes specific circumstances to change a rank. However, I think this is better than the horrible outcomes that could happen considering how much time I spent getting the ranks set to begin with.

So, how has it been working out? in the last 48 recorded fights since I made the last little code change this morning, I have won 38 fights. So roughly about 79% which is very close to my 80% goal. Of course this could end up being 70% very shortly.

Here are the fight results. (Sorry there may be a second Spoiler Block you have to click on)

FightWagerWinnerPayoutDate (EST)
Rubber soul vs Haggar600 on HaggarHaggar12August 13, 2013 6:23pm
Flandre scarlet vs Kim600 on KimKim4538August 13, 2013 6:20pm
Kujo jotaro vs Goku sb1600 on Kujo jotaroKujo jotaro31August 13, 2013 6:16pm
Robo-kyii vs Lei lei600 on Lei leiLei lei57August 13, 2013 6:12pm
Regina vs Kamiccolo600 on KamiccoloKamiccolo209August 13, 2013 6:08pm
Venom vs Dan600 on DanDan411August 13, 2013 6:03pm
Neco-arc vs Renamon600 on Neco-arcNeco-arc19August 13, 2013 5:59pm
Lei-lei vs Frieza600 on FriezaFrieza1319August 13, 2013 5:56pm
Change dragon vs Dragon claw600 on Dragon clawDragon claw6August 13, 2013 5:52pm
Gohan fight money vs Jay garrick600 on Jay garrickJay garrick207August 13, 2013 5:45pm
Minoriko aki vs Red ranger600 on Red rangerMinoriko aki-600August 13, 2013 5:43pm
Team reimisen vs Namor600 on Team reimisenTeam reimisen39August 13, 2013 5:39pm
The joker vs Misty600 on MistyMisty94August 13, 2013 5:35pm
Batman beyond vs Kenshiro600 on Batman beyondBatman beyond17August 13, 2013 5:32pm
Dio brando vs Silversamurai600 on SilversamuraiSilversamurai5August 13, 2013 5:29pm
Jason todd vs Nayuki minase600 on Nayuki minaseJason todd-600August 13, 2013 5:26pm
Visbou vs Fat albert600 on Fat albertFat albert26August 13, 2013 5:22pm
Harley quinn vs Jiroubou600 on Harley quinnHarley quinn123August 13, 2013 5:17pm
Gotenks gt vs Rogue600 on RogueGotenks gt-600August 13, 2013 5:14pm
Flash vs Kszsk-shuko600 on Kszsk-shukoFlash-600August 13, 2013 5:09pm
Ella vs (sman)600 on EllaElla507August 13, 2013 5:06pm
Dio vs Recoome600 on DioDio34August 13, 2013 5:01pm
The atom vs Goku ssj5600 on The atomThe atom44August 13, 2013 4:59pm
Trunks vs Mega weapon600 on Mega weaponMega weapon5August 13, 2013 4:55pm
Vegeta vs Dio600 on VegetaVegeta217August 13, 2013 4:52pm
Missmarvel vs Ash600 on AshMissmarvel-600August 13, 2013 4:49pm
Zombie vs Arrange_unknown600 on Arrange_unknownArrange_unknown11August 13, 2013 4:45pm
Ultraman vs Ky600 on KyUltraman-600August 13, 2013 4:42pm
Ryu vs Kaio shin600 on RyuRyu56August 13, 2013 4:38pm
Marvin vs Marrow600 on MarvinMarvin373August 13, 2013 4:34pm
Dark psylocke vs K' xiii600 on Dark psylockeDark psylocke309August 13, 2013 4:30pm
Kuma vs Jack frost600 on KumaJack frost-600August 13, 2013 4:26pm
Billy lee vs Asahina mikuru600 on Billy leeBilly lee26August 13, 2013 4:23pm
Rouge vs Harpagos600 on HarpagosHarpagos1786August 13, 2013 4:20pm
Ssj gohan vs Axl600 on AxlSsj gohan-600August 13, 2013 4:17pm
Uryuu vs Setsuna600 on SetsunaSetsuna16August 13, 2013 4:12pm
Think vs Neco600 on NecoNeco31August 13, 2013 4:09pm
Hotaru vs Ryu600 on RyuRyu388August 13, 2013 4:02pm
Bison vs Helion600 on HelionBison-600August 13, 2013 3:54pm
Milan flare vs Senna vp600 on Milan flareSenna vp-600August 13, 2013 3:51pm
Karen na hito vs Archer600 on ArcherArcher233August 13, 2013 3:44pm
Aura vs Exocist(dnf)600 on AuraAura10August 13, 2013 3:41pm
Batgirl vs Koryu600 on KoryuKoryu7August 13, 2013 3:38pm
Great s. man vs Batgirl600 on Great s. manGreat s. man225August 13, 2013 3:30pm
Namazu vs Yuri di aaaaaaa600 on NamazuNamazu18August 13, 2013 3:26pm
Mystique vs Chibi ubuu600 on MystiqueMystique66August 13, 2013 3:23pm
2k vs Kamek600 on KamekKamek14August 13, 2013 3:19pm
Psycho weapon vs Lex luthor600 on Lex luthorLex luthor34August 13, 2013 3:16pm

Only time will tell how it works out. I'll update later tonight once I have much fights under my belt with the new version. However, this does look promising.

Version DONE!!

After 115 matches since this morning, I am sitting at 87 wins and actual positive cash flow coming in.

I believe I have successfully accomplished my goal. Not the 80% I was looking for, but my 75% is now much more lucrative. Before it was 72% on easy bets and was constantly losing money over a period of time. Basically, bet $600, win like $200 after 5 matches and then lose the next 3 matches. That $200, just turned into ($1600). =/

So far since last night constantly betting $600 and starting at $7,000, I am at $22,000. Probably chump change to a lot of players, but I wasn't doing this to make a million dollars in Salty Bux. I just wanted the challenge and I got that considering of how much information I had to go off of. After all is said and done, it boils down to Player 1's name, Player 2's name, and who won and a date. That is all the information I actually used.

There are still some things I would like to do with the application, but I not sure if I will or not. I am calling this a successful project and will continue to record the fights. With the system auto ranking, this whole thing could come crumbling down if my logic is off slightly. So yea, it will probably end up slowly killing itself with shitty rankings. =)

My best bet so far was Fat Boo vs Koopa Troopa ($600 -> $3,817). There have been some really close upsets that would have made me a lot of money. If this thing bets on any of those, I will surely let you know.

Thanks to all for the help.

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83 Comments

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I_Stay_Puft

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@snail said:

Who the fuck is Salty?

I go away for a week and the world goes bananas.

I am so confused.

Salty = fake e-money betting on M.U.G.E.N fights hosted on twitch. Always bet on Waku Waku 7.

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GaspoweR

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Edited By GaspoweR

@tycobb:

BTW, the Cammy named Psycho Weapon has a more souped up move set than just regular Cammy but its not immediately obvious. She has moves that are slightly different and also versions of regular moves that we are used to seeing that have better properties. There is also a Cammy that's just a regular one so just stick with the naming versions that is being shown, sir. :)

Also this bot prediction program could be broken though if during an update they'll have a character or characters that used to be really bad all of a sudden gets buffed than it would just break the system a bit. I think he periodically updates the MUGEN engine he uses from time to time.

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TyCobb

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@gaspower: Thanks for the advice. I am well aware of the possible risks updates will have on this. I have been working on the ranking system since yesterday and very shortly will be asking for community help in ranking seed characters. Letting it be powered off of the names has helped a lot. The ranking system should allow any updates to only affect a few bets here and there because characters will moved up and down depending on if they lost to someone higher or lower than their rank.

My biggest hurdle right now is deciding how to rank after the match.

For instance using a 10 rank system (1 crappiest, 10 best):

  • If a Rank 5 character beat a Rank 7 character, should they both be Rank 6?
  • But what if the rankings were off? Should Rank 5 actually move up to 6 or was the Rank 7 character wrong and it needs to be moved down? I won't actually know of course.
  • In any case the ranks changed... that means all my other fighters should be re-ranked to fit the change. This is a slow process and can't be done before the next match.

I am hoping this is my ace in the hole to account for any changes. This ranking rule that I am working on will be ran before I compare fight records. Fight records will only run if the ranks are the same. And if the outcome was not as I had planned, I'll move ranks (but who!? or both!? should I recalculate everyone's rank!?)

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fattony12000

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Hey, could we make our own version based upon the know-how of the fine duders who visit this fine CBSi website? A version that isn't punk-ass lame, and which encourages people to break the ever-loving shit out of it, only for the devs to then break it even more horribly in some other way. I'm thinking the EVE Online social/financial metagame + M.U.G.E.N + Twitch.tv = Yes.

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TyCobb

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GiantBomb! I Require Your Salty Bet Expertise.

I need to seed ranks into several characters in order to try and rank the rest. What I need from you is to look at the list and below and then assign characters that you think fit. This not the entire list. There will be ranks between them, but for seeding purposes, I need just the general consensus on certain characters. Don't worry about putting a certain character in a lower rank because he happened to lose to the other character you put in that rank. Your seeds are definite and will actually move themselves as I calculate based on fight results and the ranking of their opponents (if they have been ranked).

RankMy ExampleValue (Higher Value = Better Rank)
I Love The Beatings (Shittiest Tier, Nothing Below This)Ginew100
I Am Probably A CloneGrover200
I May Or May Not Be A DBZ CharacterShittiest of DBZ characters you have at least seen a win for.300
Neutral (Everyone Starts Here)Ash is probably the best example. He is pretty even with his record.400
I Can Hold My OwnYou tell me500
Should Just Bet On MeYou tell me600
Almost UnstoppableSilversamurai (not Silver Samurai)700
Broken TierLavos Spawn, Killer Whale (Not seeding this rank. I am doing that Manually)800

Please help me in seeding my ranks so that I can calculate everyone else's ranks. I currently have 1,155 characters that will be ranked based on your suggestions.

Go ahead and just leave your suggestions here. Thanks!

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Fredchuckdave

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Edited By Fredchuckdave

Ginew isn't too bad, also there's a fighting game style Ginew that's quite solid (i.e. normal size). Pretty sure there's a fake ash and a real ash. Boss Touhou's are almost as broken as Rare Akuma without the style and pinache. Normal size/normal looking Cell and Freiza are both amazing, C19 and Baby Cell (forget the name) are both pretty decent DBZ toons. Babidi is alright as well. All 3 rogues I've seen are ridiculously good; green > red > yellow methinks.

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TyCobb

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Edited By TyCobb
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Fredchuckdave

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Edited By Fredchuckdave

@tycobb: Jeice also not too bad, Kohaku's AI unreliable (there's like 8 different Kohakus though). KOFXIII is bad against tiny hitboxes. SFIV is mostly terrible/mediocre except Ibuki and Adon. Ken and Ken Gang are both not great; most other Kens are pretty ridiculous. Regular Ryu has great AI. Broken and Koryu are the top of their respective characters I believe. Most megaman characters have bad AI with the notable exception of Shadowman (some suffix) who is ridiculously good.

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Nime

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Is the google doc the most up to date fight results?

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Fredchuckdave

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Edited By Fredchuckdave

Green Zangyura > Red Zangyura. Regular KoF Kim has superb AI

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TyCobb

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@nime: No. That's old. I should update it at some point. I've recorded 2,100 matches so far.

Thanks @fredchuckdave I think I have what I need.

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Fredchuckdave

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Edited By Fredchuckdave

@tycobb: If you want a general sort of tier listing: Rare Akuma > Boss Touhou > Real MS Paint > Real Touhou/Cardcaptors > Akumas/Super good SF characters > KoF 5 numbers (71113?) > Pocket Fighter > Melty Blood > Marvel/ non shitty DC > KoF > Regular Street Fighter > Decent DBZ > Fake MS Paint > Bad DBZ > Fake Touhou > Awful DBZ

Missing some of the smaller groups and some characters from almost every group excel well above their group as a whole.

I think Fox McCloud is the epitome of an average character; decent damage, okay specials; bad AI; super overpowered super that he can only use from one position.

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GaspoweR

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@fattony12000: Underground Syndicate is a clothing line that is being run by one of the more prominent Marvel players, Abraham "Golden Boy Neo" Sotelo. :D

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TyCobb

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Updated with new version. Also included the results of my fights since the last code change this morning.

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TyCobb

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Thanks all for the help. I am calling this project a success and have update the main post. I am done for now, but will keep the bot running to just see what happens and to keep recording fight data in case I think of something magical I can do while drunk one night and destroy the entire code base.

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buzz_clik

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Edited By buzz_clik

Sinister question: Could you set up a whole farm of bots designed to bet incorrectly? That way you could even the odds and make yourself better money with each match.

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icecreamcohn

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@buzz_clik: Yes....muha...yes...muahahahahahahhha

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TyCobb

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Edited By TyCobb

@buzz_clik:I suppose I could. Logistics of it are not worth it though. You would have to get enough new accounts started in order to inflate the dollar amount you are willing to bet just to break even.

I think everyone starts out with $400 so you would need 2,500 accounts to match a $1,000,000 bet. If you only have $50,000, you just spent $1,000,000 to make $50,000. And this is only a one shot type of deal unless you wanted to make Salty rich (which you should) by paying a real $4 for each bot account.

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Fredchuckdave

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@tycobb: Subbing isn't worth it except for chatting with Mods (different sub); much easier to run multiple free accounts

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TyCobb

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@fredchuckdave: I was referring to subbing to saltybet.com not Twitch so you can have the minimum $600 all the time. On the free account, you only get like $15 after bottoming out.

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coaxmetal

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I was gonna write a bot too, though not with selenium, just using scrapy probably. But then I saw the bots thing, which is lame. Nice work though.

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buzz_clik

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@tycobb: Good point, I didn't think of that. I'm coming at it as someone who's dropping down to $690 every time I fuck up an all in bet, but you totally wouldn't be subscribing each one for that privilege. That would be dumb (and probably a waste of for realsies money). As you were!

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sup

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Edited By sup

I'm currently in the progress of writing a bot too. But since yesterday the site requires you to be logged in to receive data. Additionally it randomly cuts the connection without telling the client. I'm getting the feeling that I'm not welcome :D

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BBAlpert

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Oh man, I don't know if this idea has been proposed a million times before, but if it hasn't, check this out...

If enough people make their own scripts/algorithms/bots to automate the betting process, we could hypothetically bet on which bot is the best at picking winners.

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Brackynews

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fattony12000

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Edited By fattony12000

@gaspower said:

@fattony12000: Underground Syndicate is a clothing line that is being run by one of the more prominent Marvel players, Abraham "Golden Boy Neo" Sotelo. :D

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aacx97

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open source?

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TyCobb

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Corvak

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Edited By Corvak

The next thing to happen, automating this whole process, and having two instances of it betting on the same fights.

Salty Salty Bet. A website about watching this application bet fake money on AI vs AI fights.

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kosayn

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@corvak said:

The next thing to happen, automating this whole process, and having two instances of it betting on the same fights.

Salty Salty Bet. A website about watching this application bet fake money on AI vs AI fights.

Saltception, etc.

The AI is already able to outbet anyone, and probably outfight the majority of our offspring.

At this point I feel that artificial sentience is irrelevant.

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TigerDX

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I suspect this is broken since the update which no longer pulls actual player names. Only way I can think you'd do it now is with some OCR on the two player name regions of the stream. While you're at it, I wonder if there would be a way of capturing the player character region, storing it as a blob, then fuzzy matching it in future checks? Would probably fail for too many characters, like bosses and those that move during betting.

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chaser324

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chaser324  Moderator

@tigerdx: Yeah, I'm sure you probably could actually do some OCR and image processing to do this, but I think that's a bridge too far for the purpose of gambling fake money on dumb AI.

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TyCobb

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@tigerdx: I guess it is... I didn't realize it no longer listed the player names. I gave up on Salty Bet after I couldn't access the site for like 2 days and it sounded like auto balancing was being turned on. Luckily I did what I wanted to before all that happened. I would have been pissed if I got 90% finished and this happened.