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Video_Game_King

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The Last Story

(And so goes the second game of the Operation Rainfall Not-Really-a-Trilogy.) Hopefully, by the time you're reading this, somebody finally caves in and releases Pandora's Tower in America to complete the still-not-a-trilogy. But for now, we're stuck with The Last Story. Ever wonder why it's called that? What? Because Hironobu Sakaguchi treated this project as if it was his last? Don't be stupid. It's clearly because the development team was fired after the publishers saw what they were paying for.

Why the malice? Well, it's largely because the story's absolute crap. Maybe I'm at fault, here, but I believe myself justified in expecting a good story out of a game called The Last Story. Anyway, it all begins with a group of mercenaries trying to kill a group of lizard people. On this journey, one of them gains a mysterious magical power...and then promptly ignores it for half the game. I'd like to go on about how many plot threads go absolutely nowhere, but I'll take the game's leave and ignore the fuck out of that, too. This leads us to Lazulis Island, where the Count's daughter is getting married. One problem: she doesn't want the passive life of royalty and sneaks out of the castle shortly before the wedding, only to be found by the protagonist, who doe-You know what? It's Aladdin. The beginning of the game is a worse version of Aladdin.

"And that's all the character I'll ever get, lad."

Although now that I think about it, I have played another Wii game this year with strong Disney vibes: Skyward Sword. Now this provides an interesting case study in trying to figure out why exactly it works for Skyward Sword, but not for The Last Story. Simply put, it's what they choose to borrow from Disney that separates them. Skyward Sword decided to rip the aesthetics from Disney, and was better for it. There, it creates a sense of magical whimsy that brings the world to life and jacks the fun factor all the way to Skyloft. (Let's ignore the fact that Skyward Sword essentially begins in Skyloft.)

The Last Story, on the other hand, chooses to borrow Disney stories, which isn't exactly the best idea in the world. These stories are made for children; why would you look to that for inspiration on your serious RPG? (I bet all the kids are clamoring for T-rated games where one of the characters is a rowdy alcoholic.....You know what I mean.) Yes, Skyward Sword blatantly steals tropes from Disney (Groose being the most obvious), too, but it's not content to end there. It at least tries to add some depth, giving Groose a character arc and bothering to explain just how the hell Zelda got through all those dangerous areas. The Last Story, on the other hand, never bothers to take that step, leaving us with a stupidly anemic storyline populated with characters less developed than a fifth grade girl and villains less believable than Hitler. I wish I was kidding. It's like every villain is simply checking off boxes on their List of Villainy, which probably explains why every one of them is so eager to give Disney Princess Calista five to the face.

This happens A LOT in The Last Story, and I'm not sure why.
This happens A LOT in The Last Story, and I'm not sure why.

And predictable! Don't forget predictable! There were just too many moments where I said to myself something would happen, and then the game followed that to a T. Perfect example: when end-game time came around, I said, "Go ahead, game. Make Calista hum her stupid little tune and then use that to fade into your evocative vocal credits song. GO AHEAD AND DO IT. I fucking dare you." Guess what it did? Now imagine an entire game that's like that. And it's not even like the game offers anything to make up for this. I mean, what's the point of the story? That authority figures suck? Of course they're going to suck when their only previous work experience is as fucking scarecrows! Or is it something about inside/outside? I don't even know.

OK, I think that's enough angry rants toward the story. (Believe me: I could say much more.) How about I talk about something I like, instead? Like the art style! I honestly don't have a lot of complaints here, because the art is fantastic. Hell, I'm not even sure where to begin. How about the ability to turn your entire party into a pastel Power Ranger nightmare? No? Then the soft focus seems a semi-logical place to start, since it lends The Last Story a warm feeling. Combine that with how delicate and intricate the character design in general can be, and it's hard not to love the way this game looks. It's like the graphical design team had a clear idea of what they wanted this game to be like, which is more than I can say for everything preceding this. Granted, the faces can be really strange at times (here's Lowell getting mashed in the dick), but overall, there's more good than bad about the graphics.

Not now. I'm about to get my lizard genocide on.
Not now. I'm about to get my lizard genocide on.

I wish I could say that about the gameplay. Instead, it's more a murky mix of good and bad. Looking at it on paper, things start off really good. It's what happens when you combine a cover-based shooter with an RPG. Now I could say "which explains all the blue-grey-brown", but it's hard to be derisive toward something so tactical, because that's where all the fun lies. Sure, you can run up to a lot of enemies and aimless wave your sword to victory, but where's the fun in that? You're supposed to wait back, plan things out, observe enemy positions and whatnot. Sure, that's a lot of work to put into fighting enemies, but it's all worth it when you're slicing enemies in half one by one, or picking off their healers from halfway across the world, or burying them under a collapsed bridge, or any of the various options the game throws your way.

Of course, this is all assuming that you know what to do. Half the time, though, you won't. You're going to spend a lot of time flailing about and looking for exactly what the game wants you to blow up. Your only option in these instances is to find the fun and kill it. Now, to be fair, the game does try to inform you of what you should do. It's just that it always does it when you already know what to do. Yes, I know that I'm supposed to hit that giant spider thing in the ass. You don't have to repeat your hint dialogue every three seconds throughout the fight. Although the fights are kinda-challenging as it is, what with the wonky camera, the sticky controls, and the madly fluctuating party member levels, so I can't fault the game too much for that.

What I can fault it for, though, are the boss battles. All of them (save this one late in the game) are terrible. Remember what I said about the voices being annoying? Simply add to that exactly one strategy for the entire fight, and you have the boss battles of The Last Story. Predictably, it's less engaging than it is something that occupies time. The final boss is probably the worst about this, since he's pretty much all that multiplied by three and divided over what I can only call musical vomit. Fortunately, the game's over once you de-wait, no, there are a few chapters after him, because the game wasn't long enough as it is. It can't even end itself properly. I'd end on that, but I want to end on something positive: this is the last The Last Story game. Hopefully.

Review Synopsis

  • I can't even be clever about it: the story sucks.
  • And so does the execution of the battle mechanics, if not the core concept.
  • But at least it looks good.

And then Sigurd just let all hell loose when he found out that his entire army let Emperor Palpatine abduct his wife.

Jelly Boy

(Well, this is certainly strange.) Have I ever ironically hated a game? I mean, I know I've ironically loved some games in the past (Takeshi's Challenge being the most obvious), but what about ironic hate? That seems a new concept. Yea, let's roll with that. Nnngghhh! It pisses me off how great this game is! All those cool power-ups and levels and what-not just get my blood boiling!

It's one of the most sickeningly superb games I've played in a while. I'd explain the concept, first, but what value is there in that? Jelly Boy (or, as he would have been known if this game was released in America, Jam Boi) is pulling some type of bank heist that involves puzzle pieces, for some reason that is quite obviously drugs. Also, fruit's involved, because that's what jelly is made of and this game is more clever than you'd ever give it credit for.

Why is the NARRATOR woofing?
Why is the NARRATOR woofing?

Anyway, those puzzle pieces are what tie the entire game together. You have to search most of them out in each level, and while that sounds like a refreshing pain in the ass, it's actually the "worst" thing that could happen to this game. Those puzzle pieces force you to appreciate the really solid level design going on. You know, jumping around like a madman and reacting to things on the fly and everything else that makes a game challenging and engaging and fun and other boring words. Also, invisible blocks. Don't know what they were thinking there.

Then again, part of why those levels work so well is power-ups. Actually, that's the only reason. I'd repeat the last part and simply list them off, but there's just far too many to make that a viable option. Besides, I only need to mention three words to hook you on Jelly Boy: dick-gut punch. Sure, it's hard to build an entire level around punching something with your dick, something I can't say about the other power-ups, but what more do I need to say? Don't tell me that you've never wanted to kill something with the force of your erection. That includes you, too, ladies.

Fortunately, though, not everything about the game can be good. Most of it is, but there is a small vestige of suck that lies within the Jam Boi. For instance, the level themes. OK, on their own, they're not terribly offensive, but give it time. Soon enough, all those levels are going to look exactly the same. I'm not even kidding. That screenshot above? That's how the entire first world looks. It gets dull fast, and later worlds don't exactly escape this fate. It doesn't help that they lazily recycle enemy designs, thinking I wouldn't notice. Not that I can blame them for thinking that, since I couldn't notice any other flaws in this game. Yea, load times in a cartridge game, but that's mere chump change. As sad as it is, the rest of the game is superb. It's hard to think of a single meaty criticism against this game, although that might be because of that whole jelly thing.

Review Synopsis

  • Combine some technically amazing levels....
  • ...with a bevvy of power-ups...
  • ...and you have one of the few games I ironically hate. Why couldn't you be worse, Jelly Boy?
  • Fun fact: other Giant Bomb blogger has been involved with every game blogged of this week. I probably should have explained that in the beginning instead of at the butt-end. Also, I missed the perfect opportunity to make this about Jay444111.
75 Comments

75 Comments

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Video_Game_King

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@Hailinel said:

You really don't need to understand space travel to consider the possibility of life on other planets.

You do if you're going to say it with the absolute certainty the characters in the game project.

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel said:

You really don't need to understand space travel to consider the possibility of life on other planets.

You do if you're going to say it with the absolute certainty the characters in the game project.

No, you really don't.

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@Hailinel:

Then how are they getting this information? Did the other life come to visit them? Did the Outsider come with a pamphlet attached to it when it first landed? It's not like this is a theory that the greatest academic minds in the game are floating about; it's presented as the de facto explanation for how the Outsider operates. Some context on how they deduced that would probably help a bit.

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PixelPrinny

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@Hailinel said:

Except it isn't a bad game. Syrenne's feelings for Lowell were demonstrated to grow, or at least be more surfaced, over the course of the game, particularly in the last hours. And he doesn't resurrect out of nowhere; it's by the remaining power of the Outsider that Dagran had controlled. And as for not knowing what Dagran was planning, well, it was evident through a large portion of the game that he was up to something, and he was keeping that something hidden from everyone.

As for Calista being a damsel in distress, that really goes back and forth. There are times when Zael helps Calista, there are times when Calista helps Zael, and there are times when they help each other. Her being on the box cover is more a sign of her importance to the narrative overall and her relationship to the protagonist; it doesn't correlate to the amount of time she's actually part of the party. Jirall is a dipshit, tried setting up Zael, ended up getting framed himself, and driven bugfuck crazy by his imprisonment just gets used as a tool to try and off Zael so that Zangurak doesn't have to deal with him. It could be argued that by the time Zangurak offered him that power, Jirall was already dead inside anyway because finishing Zael was all he could think about.

I guess I didn't notice the massive framerate drops you complained about, so don't know what to say there. Or maybe I did and they just didn't bother me that much. Whatever. The camera certainly didn't bother me, I know that. And when the enemy's strategy consisted of one-shot kills, I just adjusted accordingly. I was down to my last life in the final boss battle because the boss went into KILL NOW mode, so I just hung back and was able to use party tactics to get him down to do a lot of the remaining damage before finishing him off. I actually made pretty good use of the terrain where I could. Sometimes I got some nice surprise assaults, sometimes I fucked up and I had a clusterfuck of a melee on my hands. In both cases, it was a lot of fun.

When I say it's a Sakaguchi RPG, I speak mostly from the perspective of the tropes it employs. The giant-ass island cannon (Final Fantasy VII, much?), the romance between the leads, the focus on a core group of characters rather than wider conflict, and the at-times goofy nature of the characters and plot (the random nutshot, the intentionally hokey haunted house). I use the term not as a defense, but as shorthand for describing the feel of the game to me. Not that I really feel it needs defending because I enjoyed it. But yeah, different strokes for different folks and all that. I'd love it if he could find a publisher to work with on another large RPG and get away from the smaller mobile development Mistwalker has been doing, but all the same, The Last Story leaves me with nothing to really complain about.

I, too, liked the chemistry between Syrenne and Lowell all the way up till the point she did a 180 personality switch and was all like "I JUST CANT GO ON NOW THAT HE'S GONE WAAAAAA" literally seconds after telling Zael that he needs to be strong and move on from the loss of his best friend. "We're all behind you, Zael! Wait scratch that. Leave me behind cause I just can't live life without this guy who I have feelings for, waaaaauuuuuugh!" Fuck oooooffffff, writers. The character you developed up until that point just wouldn't do that. She'd be fucking pissed he was dead; she'd want to rip peoples faces off in a drunk stupor, but she wouldn't just break down and give up because he's gone.

Oh right, the Outsider. That big giant Deus ex Machina that made nearly no sense. I kinda forgot about that, cause it was generic final act Final Fantasy bullshit used to explain whatever needed explaining. Something about meteors and alien life and casting some spell to bring them back together so they could fly off into space.... On the bright side, the Outsider in Dishonored was cool, so yay for that!

"Sign of her importance to the narrative" is a polite way of calling her a MacGuffin for most of the story, which is exactly my point. Yes, there were a couple of times she actually did something of importance, but for most of the story you were either chasing after her and trying to save her, or she had little to add in the way of conversation or importance beyond standing beside Zael when they needed to open a magical door. She interacted in very few conversations in the later half of the game (when you finally get her again) while Syrenne and Lowell provided plenty of banter.

It doesn't take a whole lot for me to get all gushy over romantic stories. I looooove them. So the last thing on my mind when a game makes an attempt at such a thing is to approach it critically and try to find flaws. Unfortunately, with Last Story, I just found myself uninvested in their relationship due to a lack of development between the two characters. The wedding scene only managed to bring a weak smile to my face, which really sucks for someone like me. It should have made more of an impact on me had the relationship been developed better. =/ S

Don't get me wrong about the one-shot-kill strategy. The combat was never hard. Just frustrating and dull. Every battle employed the same strategy for me (with the exception of mr best friend turned traitor which had a wooonderful level minimum. Tried taking him on at a level or two below what the game expects you to be and 40 minutes later I was still fighting his phase 2, wondering how long this friggin battle would take. I guessed that maybe I was under that level minimum, reset, grinded for a bit, and went at him two levels higher than I attempted to before. Lo and behold, he died in less than 5 minutes. Awesome.)

How bout this -- It's a bad game with heart. :D I never felt like the game was a chore and it had plenty of potential and some nice little things that kept me interested (like Syrenne and Lowells banter). But there were a lot of issues that I just felt could have been handled better, from small things like tracking quests (why is there no way to tell which NPC asked you to fetch what items and where they are) or where the red flag vendors actually are at any given time when they spam your screen with "Fresh Pumpkins 40 gold each!" and you just hafta search around blindly to find them in the area; to larger things like the combat, the story, or the lack of locations (eg. you visit the same couple of dungeons 3-4 times throughout the story)

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@PixelPrinny: I'd like to debate this more, but I've unfortunately aggravated a neck injury and can't stay at my computer for long. So I'll try to make this quick:

It didn't feel like Syrenne did a 180 on me. I also had no problems with what the Outsider is, as I felt that the game did a fair enough job of explaining what it is, where it came from, and how to get it to leave. It's not a Deus ex Machina; it doesn't come flying out of the sky to resolve everyone's problems at the last possible second.

Being a MacGuffin would imply that Calista ever loses story importance, which she doesn't. She's important to Zael right up through the end.

I never found the combat that difficult, either, but it also wasn't furstrating nor was it dull. I did use similar strategies for a lot of battles, but TLS isn't a tactical RPG; it's an RPG with tactical elements that sometimes come into play more than others. When I faced the final boss, I did have to fight him twice, but the time I died was my fault for doing something stupid. The second time, I defeated him without too much trouble (his final form presented the real challenge), but then, I don't know what my levels were compared to yours. I always made use of the summon circles and by the end, Zael was around level 68 while everyone else was in the low 60s.

So no, I can't really call it a bad game, and you can't really convince me that it is, either. I know you don't like it, but I do, and if I were to review it, I'd obviously just give it a better one that you would. Yeah, the game has its flaws around the sidequesting (though I never had trouble finding the red flags; they always seemed to be just about right where I was when an announcement is made) and never did much with the item trading, either. It could have had a larger world, more dungeons, and so on, but I'm happy with what's there. I'd also be happy if there was a sequel that expanded on everything, but as it stands, I enjoyed it, and not in any ironic "liking a bad game" sense.

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@Hailinel said:

It's not a Deus ex Machina; it doesn't come flying out of the sky to resolve everyone's problems at the last possible second.

That's right; it came in at the first possible second. But seriously, it is a Deus Ex Machina since

what it is, where it came from, and how to get it to leave.

All this. It's never explained how the characters actually know a lot of this outside their own personal experience, so it basically becomes a plot-convenient magic.

Also, that "NO, YOU CAN'T DIE" stuff really was out of character for Syrenne.

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel said:

It's not a Deus ex Machina; it doesn't come flying out of the sky to resolve everyone's problems at the last possible second.

That's right; it came in at the first possible second. But seriously, it is a Deus Ex Machina since

what it is, where it came from, and how to get it to leave.

All this. It's never explained how the characters actually know a lot of this outside their own personal experience, so it basically becomes a plot-convenient magic.

Also, that "NO, YOU CAN'T DIE" stuff really was out of character for Syrenne.

Did you not ever visit the game's library? It explains a lot about the Outsider.

And we're just going to have to agree to disagree on Syrenne.

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@Hailinel:

I did, and I remember the only question it answered was "why couldn't they split it up a billion more times".

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel:

I did, and I remember the only question it answered was "why couldn't they split it up a billion more times".

Uh, no?

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@Hailinel:

I remember reading it, and I remember finding the answer to that one question (it was because they need to kill off the person who summoned it). I don't remember anything written about what that rock does when it's in space.

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel:

I remember reading it, and I remember finding the answer to that one question (it was because they need to kill off the person who summoned it). I don't remember anything written about what that rock does when it's in space.

It's a world seed. It creates new worlds. They state that very plainly. The only reason that the Outsider showed up on that world at that time was because the rite of celestial summoning was performed to call it there so that Arganan could stop the constant warring that consumed that era.

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@Hailinel said:

It's a world seed. It creates new worlds. They state that very plainly.

BUT HOW DO THEY COME TO KNOW THIS!? What is the method by which they come to know this? What was there to lead them from it being a magic space rock to a world seed? It's not even like they saw it creating life. In fact, the story explicitly states it was destroying life. They have only seen it destroy life, and I don't see how from that alone they can call it a world seed that creates new worlds. What leads them from this to world seed?

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel said:

It's a world seed. It creates new worlds. They state that very plainly.

BUT HOW DO THEY COME TO KNOW THIS!? What is the method by which they come to know this? What was there to lead them from it being a magic space rock to a world seed? It's not even like they saw it creating life. In fact, the story explicitly states it was destroying life. They have only seen it destroy life, and I don't see how from that alone they can call it a world seed that creates new worlds. What leads them from this to world seed?

It only causes the world to decay because it wasn't supposed to be on that world in the first place. It doesn't create worlds from nothing; it needs to gather energy, and because it had been called to that world, it began draining that world's energy. It was only there because of the summoning that had been performed. If I recall correctly, Calista and Zael find out what the Outsider (a world seed) when they find that secret space while exploring the castle and Therius tags along.

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@Hailinel said:

If I recall correctly, Calista and Zael find out what the Outsider (a world seed) when they find that secret space while exploring the castle and Therius tags along.

Which circles back to that whole "trust" thing from much earlier in the plot. Why would you trust the damn thing that's slowly murdering your planet? That'd be like Chrono Trigger ending with Lavos saying, "It wasn't supposed to be like this! I'm only killing your planet because there's already life on it!". The Outsider isn't a trustworthy source, even if it is the only source of information. (I'm assuming that the Outsider itself said this shit. From what I vaguely remember, it could also be the summoner lady's spirit saying this, which circles back to the "what are the means by which she acquired this knowledge" thing.) (Also, on that Lavos thing: please don't tell me that's what happens in Chrono Cross. I don't like it when I predict things this specifically.)

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel said:

If I recall correctly, Calista and Zael find out what the Outsider (a world seed) when they find that secret space while exploring the castle and Therius tags along.

Which circles back to that whole "trust" thing from much earlier in the plot. Why would you trust the damn thing that's slowly murdering your planet? That'd be like Chrono Trigger ending with Lavos saying, "It wasn't supposed to be like this! I'm only killing your planet because there's already life on it!". The Outsider isn't a trustworthy source, even if it is the only source of information. (I'm assuming that the Outsider itself said this shit. From what I vaguely remember, it could also be the summoner lady's spirit saying this, which circles back to the "what are the means by which she acquired this knowledge" thing.) (Also, on that Lavos thing: please don't tell me that's what happens in Chrono Cross. I don't like it when I predict things this specifically.)

Zael isn't aware what the Outsider is, and for that matter, neither do most of the characters. They don't make the connection between the Outsider and the dying world until it's explained to them. Arganan and the summoner also weren't aware of this at first; it wasn't until after they had started investigating the world's degradation that they make the connection and the Outsider is broken in two to slow the decay. This knowledge ended up becoming lost with time. None of this would have happened had they not summoned the Outsider to their world in the first place, but Arganan needed the power of the Outsider to stop the war. It may bear some similarities to Lavos, but Lavos is a malevolent entity that came to the world of Chrono Trigger uninvited and began draining power from the world. The only people that stood to gain any real benefit from Lavos's presence were the people of Zeal, but that was only because Lavos had driven the queen batshit crazy and she decided to replace Zeal's traditional source of power (the sun) with Lavos's energy. (Of course, Zeal doesn't benefit from Lavos at all in the end and is blown out of the sky.)

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@Hailinel said:

@PixelPrinny: I'd like to debate this more, but I've unfortunately aggravated a neck injury and can't stay at my computer for long. So I'll try to make this quick:

It didn't feel like Syrenne did a 180 on me. I also had no problems with what the Outsider is, as I felt that the game did a fair enough job of explaining what it is, where it came from, and how to get it to leave. It's not a Deus ex Machina; it doesn't come flying out of the sky to resolve everyone's problems at the last possible second.

Being a MacGuffin would imply that Calista ever loses story importance, which she doesn't. She's important to Zael right up through the end.

I never found the combat that difficult, either, but it also wasn't furstrating nor was it dull. I did use similar strategies for a lot of battles, but TLS isn't a tactical RPG; it's an RPG with tactical elements that sometimes come into play more than others. When I faced the final boss, I did have to fight him twice, but the time I died was my fault for doing something stupid. The second time, I defeated him without too much trouble (his final form presented the real challenge), but then, I don't know what my levels were compared to yours. I always made use of the summon circles and by the end, Zael was around level 68 while everyone else was in the low 60s.

So no, I can't really call it a bad game, and you can't really convince me that it is, either. I know you don't like it, but I do, and if I were to review it, I'd obviously just give it a better one that you would. Yeah, the game has its flaws around the sidequesting (though I never had trouble finding the red flags; they always seemed to be just about right where I was when an announcement is made) and never did much with the item trading, either. It could have had a larger world, more dungeons, and so on, but I'm happy with what's there. I'd also be happy if there was a sequel that expanded on everything, but as it stands, I enjoyed it, and not in any ironic "liking a bad game" sense.

Being a MacGuffin implies no such thing. Where would you get that idea? The whole plot of many stories relies on such things being important to the story all the way until the end. Her importance after you finally rescue her amounts to just being there to open doors. In other words, she's a key who just happens to be romantically interested in the hero.

As for the Outsider stuff, you and VGK have been debating that already so I won't beat a dead horse. Suffice to say, I'm on his side ;P

So I can't convince you otherwise, huh? Shucks. :P Not to worry though, I shant lose sleep over it and I doubt you shall either!

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Video_Game_King

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@Hailinel:

I'm not even really sure how any of that is relevant. In fact, I'm having a difficult time following it outside simply summarizing the plot. All I can say is incredibly petty:

None of this would have happened had they not summoned the Outsider to their world in the first place, but Arganan needed the power of the Outsider to stop the war.

This makes no sense. Arganan wasn't around at the time, and I'm not buying the "I needed it to stop the war" explanation. The guy gave a backhand to his daughter when she said it was a dumb idea; he was in it for the power the entire time. (I'm pretty sure that I'd have a better explanation for that if I wasn't incredibly lazy.) And continuing the incredibly petty string, I'll just repeat myself:

  • If they found out about the "world seed" stuff from the Outsider itself, then the information can't be trusted, even if they initially trust it (since they later gain access to information that puts this in an untrustworthy light).
  • If they found out from the spirit of the summoner, then they've gone nowhere, since the summoner had access to the same level of information about the Outsider that they had, which is jack none. I'm willing to wager less, in fact, since Zael and co. have the benefit of several hundred years societal advancement.
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ShadyPingu

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Do the Aladdin similarities go so far as the princess being accused of stealing at one point because she doesn't know what money is? Because I would find that pretty funny, if so.

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@Encephalon said:

Do the Aladdin similarities go so far as the princess being accused of stealing at one point because she doesn't know what money is? Because I would find that pretty funny, if so.

I'm pretty sure they do. Give me a minute...ALMOST. They almost get that far.

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel:

I'm not even really sure how any of that is relevant. In fact, I'm having a difficult time following it outside simply summarizing the plot. All I can say is incredibly petty:

None of this would have happened had they not summoned the Outsider to their world in the first place, but Arganan needed the power of the Outsider to stop the war.

This makes no sense. Arganan wasn't around at the time, and I'm not buying the "I needed it to stop the war" explanation. The guy gave a backhand to his daughter when she said it was a dumb idea; he was in it for the power the entire time. (I'm pretty sure that I'd have a better explanation for that if I wasn't incredibly lazy.) And continuing the incredibly petty string, I'll just repeat myself:

  • If they found out about the "world seed" stuff from the Outsider itself, then the information can't be trusted, even if they initially trust it (since they later gain access to information that puts this in an untrustworthy light).
  • If they found out from the spirit of the summoner, then they've gone nowhere, since the summoner had access to the same level of information about the Outsider that they had, which is jack none. I'm willing to wager less, in fact, since Zael and co. have the benefit of several hundred years societal advancement.

You are COMPLETELY off-base.

Count Arganan is not the same person as Arganan. The count and Calista are both decendents of Arganan, the progenitor of the bloodline and the person that worked with the summoner. Further, Calista is not the count's daughter. She is his niece.

It's evident that we're going around in circles, and you're completely zoning out on some important points of the story. I think I'm done here.

@Encephalon said:

Do the Aladdin similarities go so far as the princess being accused of stealing at one point because she doesn't know what money is? Because I would find that pretty funny, if so.

She isn't accursed of stealing, but she does go to a market with Zael and she takes something from a merchant without realizing she has to pay, so Zael saves her the embarrassment by paying for her. She knows what money is, she just didn't realize she had to use it there.

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@Hailinel:

Can you blame me? They share the exact same name (even spelled the same way) and the role Calista serves in the story might as well be "the Count's daughter". Besides, her being his niece totally justifies him giving her five to the face.

Also important to note that the last time I played this is September. That should give some context on why I confused two very easily confuseable details.

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@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel:

Can you blame me? They share the exact same name (even spelled the same way) and the role Calista serves in the story might as well be "the Count's daughter". Besides, her being his niece totally justifies him giving her five to the face.

Sure, I can blame you. :P Also, her being his niece is actually an important plot point, as it's implied that he offed her parents in order to take the throne. It is established from early on that he is a ruthless asshole despite Lazulis being rather peaceful on the outside. But he's the one with the power, so Zael and Calista can't do anything when he slaps her across the face (though Calista returns the favor later).

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@Hailinel: @Video_Game_King: Well, in that case, the Gooch wasn't even drawing from Aladdin. That totally happened in FFIX, where it similarly served as shorthand for "this girl is a sheltered, naive aristocrat."

They should probably just save time and flash that across the screen in block text. It would be equally subtle. :P

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@Encephalon said:

They should probably just save time and flash that across the screen in block text. It would be equally subtle. :P

Or they could just have Calista sing this. Same level of subtlety, but slightly more entertaining.

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Good lord, what I have wrought telling Hailinel about your dissenting opinion, Kingy?

I'm not going to butt in (though my five-star review of the game - once regarded as way too favorable bythis very site itself - should indicate which side of this debate I'm on) but I can absolutely understand why someone wouldn't like this game. I read the Jim Sterling review, and while it's never sensible to take his scores to heart (he seems to enjoy using them as a weapon), he had some valid concerns for it mixed in with the usual spurious comedy vitriol. I just don't see them being too much of an issue, not enough to diminish my appreciation for what the game is and what it was trying to do at least.

But yes, no more arguments from me. I've had a TLS thread of mine degenerate like this between myself and VGK already. Live and Let's Play, as it were.

ETA: Though I am currently playing Crimson Shroud. If I end up overrating it because of the Yasumi Matsuno involvement, we'll all know I'm too much of an early Squaresoft fanboy to take seriously.