Playdate: I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream (07/02/2018)

I don't understand why it's assumed the writer has a problem with women off the basis of Ted's scenario.

AM specially tailored simulation hellscapes for these specific people. Ted is a smug user/misogynist type. It seems clear to me that the attitudes of the women in Ted's scenario are meant to be a reflection and commentary of Ted's misogynistic views. It's not to do with the authors opinion of women.

It only makes sense. Ted chose the castle. Ted's world is this twisted perversion of an archetypal fairy-tale where he views himself as the hero. "Isn't that what you want to be, her knight?" But his preconceived notions and sexist behavior keep backfiring. The world is showing him he's not the hero he believed he was.

There's a strong element of Ted's continual comeuppance for being a sexist turd but the conclusion is somehow that it reflects poorly on Harlan Ellison's view of women?

How about we don't take a random statement, which is clearly focused on a game currently being played, and make it sound like a blanket policy of the crew?

@fedallah: Holy shit, that reading was fantastic!

@quipido: It wasn't random. The context was deriding games of that era and it was one among many comments made stating this game's writing is indicative of the overall quality of 90s / classic adventure game writing, and it's not.

There's like four other quotes pertaining to this in the video. Including one right at the end.

While the subject matter doesn't fit today's "gaming milieu" I really loved this as a kid and had endless fun trying out everything with every character.

I remember watching a full 100% playthrough of this by Superbestfriends. If you are interested in how this plays out at all I suggest checking out their video series on it.

Love this game/story but yea there are some really fucked up parts.

This was a great feature either way; it was funny watching them play after knowing what you're supposed to do.

Duders, I have a question for those of you who read the short story. How come Ted (the narrator) can kill the other four when they were made immortal by AM? Isn't this a massive plot hole or was there something I missed?

I heard the name a couple of times a while back and assumed it was a new puzzle game or something, it was around the time Thomas Was Alone was released I believe.

Never heard of the game before and never knew it's an old point and click adventure game.

Just scream through your nose?

Ok then, I haven't actually watched the video yet, which is my fault. Sorry about that.

I still think the crew knows better than to think all adventure games were this, at the time.

It seems like Vinny likes the game but Alex and especially Abby do not, mainly because the misanthropic/misogynistic/dated writing is rubbing them the wrong way. It seems like they won't pick this one back up, which is a shame. I really liked them playing this. If the 90s edginess is too much, all I can say is it's no worse than A Puzzle of Flesh, and they kept on with that trainwreck, which made for a super entertaining series.

@redcream: From what I recall, it wasn't that they were immortal, but that AM could regenerate them if they were badly wounded, but not outright killed. Something like that I think.

Adventure games and Vinny, always a treat. Well, this game wasn't the best one out there, but still made for an enjoyable video. I hope Vinny gets another excuse to dig into some old games (well, besides the author dying...) relatively soon.

Being angry was what he was known for, but as you say there was more to him. His friend, Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski, posted a nice little anecdote on his Facebook page about a less known side of Harlan.

@mckinley:

Have not watched the feature yet and not familiar with Ellison, but would agree with you that we shouldn't project what a writer's characters have to say about women onto the writer themselves.

It can depend though also on what balance a writer gives to more positive archetypes for women. Like John Updike seem predominantly to write 'at' women in a nasty kind of way so the criticism can be warranted there I feel.

But I don't know anything about this Ellison dude

@mckinley:I have a hard time watching content with Abby these days because she seems to be exceedingly negative about nearly everything, very quickly. She's like the anti-Vinny. She makes Alex seem cheery and optimistic.

I understand she's the youngest on the team by far, but her lack of experience in games is glaring (both as far as other examples in a genre and a given game's place in history), and she seems to have no desire to expand it.

@super2j:Was wondering this also. Great LP.

@chilo: Seconded!

Particularly in regards to the specific plot of the game. All the characters are meant to be deeply flawed. One of them is a literal Nazi doctor. Ted is a con man who used his smug charm to trick women out of money. This isn't the author presenting his view on a stable, well adjusted guy with healthy attitudes toward women.

So it's like "why are all the women -- in this personal hellscape meant to prod a misogynist's neurosis -- acting so strange?" Well there's about 1000 reasons relating to the fiction you could think of before arriving at "this must be what the author thinks your average woman is like."

Let alone the fact that he's constantly being tricked or punished along the lines of his character flaws. Every time Ted buys into a sexist preconception that the simulation presents him it backfires and he gets fucked over for it.

@flashflood_29: lol wut

Glad that they played Benny's first. That's my favorite, and the most memorable story imo.

I don't mind takes but I gotta say Abby is as usual being extremely negative. It doesn't seem like she has any state between hating something and being extremely defensive of something.

^

No, in fact i like that he is doing just that. Otherwise Vinny could happily sit there and bang his head again the same thing for the entire stream. And that's not a knock against Vinny he would have a blast just doing that. For me the viewer that would be frustrating to watch. So as far as I'm concerned Alex has the right idea.

I have No Mouse But I Must Scream !!!!!!!!!!

I'd agree if there's actually some nuance and purpose/reflection to the specific things being said and portrayed. Sure, there's context to it in the characters, but even so, it feels like it's there just to be there. There's little payoff to the things being said besides "oh yeah, this person sucks and they're being tortured." Feels even worse when it's coming from a player character who the player is actively trying to "help." (whatever help may mean in this game.)

Nimdok's perfect ending is still what I'd point to as the only reasonable "redemption" someone as inhuman as him could ever receive. It's the only story in the game that I'd say is worth playing, or at the very least seeing, since it's kinda shocking how a game from the 90's could handle the topic reasonably well.

Too bad it's buried underneath a middle-of-the-road adventure game.

Really disappointed that they didn't seem to give this game a fair shake. Vinny's an adventure game fan so he should know that these games are programmed a certain way and Abby misinterpreting Ted's story as the author having a problem with women are the most disappointing points.

More familiar with JMS for his comic work, but that is my point. You can read Greg Sestero's book "The Disaster Artist" and you will love or hate Tommy Wiseau from one chapter to the next. People are complicated. But Ellison's writing and personality were STILL intensely angry in a kind of directionless way, you can see a lot of people in the comments here butting up against that. He writes like someone who grew up in abject, systemic poverty.

@pandamannorth: Okay. I got it. Thanks!

Wish they would have given this a more serious look, I think this game brings a lot of potential for discussion and less potential for goofin'

This probably isn't a coincidence.

Finally a great classic giantbomb video. This is the stuff I love the most.

Abby got a bit too excited about racist or sexist stuff. I mean I get it but they are 5 last people on earth. Cut them a slack for saying slang stuff (and not even THAT offending in a grand scheme of things happening in the game)

I'll put in my two cents that Abby and Alex's negativity made this one a sour experience. Usually Alex is one of my favs but the frequent prodding for walkthrough hints was pretty irritating. They obviously weren't going to finish this in one shot, so I don't understand the rush.

I don't think the crew knows much about this man. He is a guy who mailed bricks to someone with collect on delivery because he didn't like the rewrite of his screen play. Harlen Ellison is a truly terrible human being. But somehow that makes him a great writer.

GBE sans Dan?

@blupotato: Your definition of what makes a human being "terrible" is wack as hell.

I'd say that his misogyny constantly backfiring is a form of purpose/reflection. The perversion of the archetypal fantasy setting is as well. Two of the three female characters in the simulation explicitly call him on his shit. By "specific things being said" do you mean you want a character or some narration rebuking individual misogynistic lines of dialogue? I really don't feel that's necessary. As far as nuance, the acting and presentation aren't doing the game any favors. It might be the case that there's no squeezing blood from that stone. I couldn't say for certain, though, I'd have to see the story through to the end. I will say at the very least there's already more there than the stream gave the game credit for. Which is to say at least some.

Ultimately disagreements over the quality of execution are all well and fine, but essentially besides the point. Simply acknowledging the context is enough to say that Ted's scenario isn't Harlan Ellison presenting his view of a decent man and the average woman. Which was the argument I was making.

Or at the very least you'd have to jump over a country mile of what the game is obviously presenting you to reach that conclusion.

@puppykisses: He is currently flying around the US for holiday/the anime convention panel with Jeff.

I just said Jeff and Dan are in LA to host an anime panel. Giantbomb dot com. A website. About videogames.

"That's...awful."

A cool unexpected video! Love this sort of stuff. Kind of a shame that Abby and Alex didn't seem to dig it/appreciate it, but I'm also not that surprised.

I still hope you guys pick this back up or play more adventure games soon.

I didn’t watch this and I think I’ll pass. I liked this game when I was younger because it has a good sci-fi horror story.

Granted I’m taking this from the comments which is probably my own fault but it bums me out that a game like this with the subject matter it has cannot be viewed from a more intellectual perspective rather than throwing out claims that the author is a mygonist because of a fictional character he wrote.

Could he have been one? Maybe, hell if I know but I sure as shit won’t label him as one off of a fictional story he wrote that was transferred into a mid 90’s point and click adventure game.

I'm not saying the author couldn't be shitty, I don't know anything about him or his work, but I didn't immediately project Ted being a shitbag to the author being a shitbag. Maybe he agrees with Ted or maybe he acts that way but also sees the error of his ways(hence the scenario) but has been unable to make himself better. It seems amateurish to immediately say fuck the game if the whole idea is that Ted does suck and he suffers the consequences of his actions.

And Benny being a racist asshole? I don't really know how well that pans out because I haven't seen more of the game, but I'm ok in saying he is so does that mean it's allowed to have him as a character you play or not? If ultimately you make his life a little better and he doesnt change for the better, maybe that sucks, but if he learns something or his ending sucks because of his views....

I dunno. I'm ok with seeing shitty views in games. I want to see shitty views and people to learn they suck and deal with it, or learn from it or us to see that they DON'T learn anything and they continue to be punished for it and what kind of bad outcomes arise from them. This game might not do it great and maybe it is just coming from a place of hate and garbage but all in all I don't know where to condemn something has racist and sexist tripe or to uplift it as a work of fiction that deals with hard subjects.

Note to self : Only write woke characters so that people know that I am woke.

I desire more 90's ass adventure games.

Wish this was Vinny and just about anyone else except Alex and Abbey.

This is some English 101 misinterpretation embarrassment...... OOF!!

I always enjoy a GB point and click adventure, but this game and story has always made me uncomfortable. People in these comments seem to have a problem with Abby and Alex being negative about it, but

If that doesn’t make you uncomfortable, I have no words.

However, it was good to see Vinny play it and I think Alex and Abby were the right people to play it with.