Giant Bombcast Giant Bomb's GOTY 2011 Deliberations: Day Three

@Milkman said:

@Phished0ne said:

I call bullshit on Ryan's additions to the Battlefield discussion. Battlefield in general is immensely harder to get into, be good at, and have fun with than any other competitive multiplayer shooter that has came out recently. Not saying it shouldn't have won, because i agree with that decision. But saying that BF3 isn't downright frustrating to play online is a load of junk.

Sure, if you care about "getting good." But it's incredibly easy to load up Battlefield 3, jump in a jet and have a lot of ridiculous fun. If you want to get "pro gamer" about it, then maybe you're right but on a pure fun to time spent scale, Battlefield is second to none.

No one plays multiplayer shooters just so they can have a whoopdee-doo good time in a vehicle. No one's saying "man, I really want to drive a warthog" for Halo and then jumping into the multiplayer component, hopping into a hog and going off somewhere other than the objective. That's not fun for the person doing it, and it's even less fun for everyone else. That would ruin the game, and if people are actually doing that in Battlefield 3, it's the worst competitive game ever.

@DexterKid said:

I'm really confused about the Northies section.

Aren't the spheres in Portal 2 only heard during the final boss for about a couple minutes? So the loud music, explosions and the fact that you are trying to beat the boss quickly means that you can barely hear what they are saying. The only reason I even know about the spheres and their funny dialogue is because I went and listened to them on Youtube afterwards.

I don't see how that's the best use of Nolan North in a game. Unless I missed something major in Portal 2.

I love the fact that you are cross about the winner of this award :)

@Duffyside: Dude, what? You're going to try and tell me that everyone playing multiplayer shooter is solely concerned with their K/D? Anytime I have played Battlefield the most fun I've had is when I'm crashing jets and seeing crazy explosions. There's room for both in these games but the thought that it's somehow wrong to play Halo just because you want to drive a Warthog is exactly why I don't play a lot of shooters.

I can't tell you how many times I've jumped into a Warthog on a Halo map drove directly into the enemy and exploded. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I'm having fun.

@Animasta said:

@DexterKid said:

And you guys don't think Skyrim even makes the top 3 for best looking game of year?

Wow man, I couldn't disagree more with your choices this year.

I'm playing Skyrim on my super rad PC which plays it on high at 60 fps; no way does it look as good as Rayman, uncharted, witcher 2...

Well of course it doesn't in a straight comparison. But you can't talk about Skyrim's visuals without taking into account its scope and atmosphere, as oppose to the sharpness of the textures. Making a static corridor look really nice isn't necessarily impressive to me, but constructing a beautifully detailed, highly interactive and atmospheric world is a highly impressive feat. Part of the reason why so many Oblivion and Fallout 3 haters are suddenly loving Skyrim is because it's the first Bethesda game of its kind that also looks fantastic.

That's not to say that something like Uncharted isn't impressive, but it's certainly not to do with of its high res textures. And to say that Witcher 2 is the best looking game of the year because it has the showiest technical tricks, whilst disregarding the fact that it is just a handful of small and not very interactive environments, and hardly even considering Skyrim in the process, is what seems odd to me.

But whatever, if that's what those guys liked the most then so be it (even though only 1 out of 5 of them had actually played any real amount of the game).

@leebmx said:

@DexterKid said:

I'm really confused about the Northies section.

Aren't the spheres in Portal 2 only heard during the final boss for about a couple minutes? So the loud music, explosions and the fact that you are trying to beat the boss quickly means that you can barely hear what they are saying. The only reason I even know about the spheres and their funny dialogue is because I went and listened to them on Youtube afterwards.

I don't see how that's the best use of Nolan North in a game. Unless I missed something major in Portal 2.

I love the fact that you are cross about the winner of this award :)

I was confused cause they made it sound like the spheres were a huge deal, and I just remember barely hearing them talk for a few seconds during a frantic boss fight. That's all. No dis to the winner; Nolan North deserved to win this category!

Deus Ex Human Revolution is technically a 3.

Given the absurd level of love for Deus Ex and the absurd level of hatred of Deus Ex 2, that Human Revolution came out the way it did and was received the way it was... probably woulda been worth considering it for Best Use of 3.

No Skyward Sword on Best Looking?! That game looks like a fucking painting. First game to actually have me in awe when looking at it in a looooooong time. Even if I didn't get into the combat, the look of that game blew my mind.

It's such small coffin oh god bahaha

@umdesch4 said:

@Tan said:

@Plasma said:

But Starcraft II, the obvious winner. I don't even play Starcraft II but cmon, have you seen that scene?

You've let me down Brad. I am shocked.

Tricky to make a case, given that Starcraft II was technically a 2010 game. But yeah...

Oh haha, my bad. That first award threw me off I guess :P. Yeah I guess their choices make sense then...

@2HeadedNinja said:

@Phished0ne said:

@chilibean_3 said:

@Phished0ne said:

I call bullshit on Ryan's additions to the Battlefield discussion. Battlefield in general is immensely harder to get into, be good at, and have fun with than any other competitive multiplayer shooter that has came out recently. Not saying it shouldn't have won, because i agree with that decision. But saying that BF3 isn't downright frustrating to play online is a load of junk.

Why do you believe that Battlefield is more difficult to get into than other competitive multiplayer shooters?

due to the large size of the maps it makes it extremely easy to be picked off by snipers from across the map as soon as you spawn. Also, when the game first released the flashlights were op, you shouldn't be able to be blinded by flashlight in broad daylight. That may have been patched though, i haven't played the game since release.

I have never ever ever been killed by a sniper "across the map as soon as you spawn" ... In fact, I have been killed by snipers less than by any other class. Also: The flashlights were annoying but hardly a real problem since not a lot of people use them (from what I saw in around 150 hours) ... sure, you get killed because of them from time to time but nothing that stands out. And saying the game is "downright frustrating" because of 2 things you don't like doesnt seem like a well informed and valid opinion to me.

"Across the map" was a hyped statement. But in my albeit limited amount of time playing the game, i personally experienced the same problems i did with battlefield 2. I die too fast, and this is coming from someone who tried to play the shit out of BF2 back when i played more pc games. But after playing the MW series, battlefield just wasn't fun. I played games on ps3 where i would get killed back to back by the same 3 or 4 snipers, just picking people off in the capture point maps because our base was the last point to be defended. But I'm sure thats more of a problem on certain maps than others. Or maybe its simply a difference between platform online communities. The flashlight thing is a minor quibble yes, but it was obviously a problem because Dice patched it, or was going to from what i read. You cant simply brush it off if its a big enough issue that the developer to step in and go 'okay guys, maybe that was a bit overboard'.

I wouldn't form an opinion based on 2 points, but its been a while since i played BF3, and the only thing that stuck out in my mind is that i had no fun playing that game. I rented it, played the single player, and played the multiplayer for 12 hours before i said fuck it and took it back. I really had to cobble together the few things that stuck out in my mind. I think it says something that those things stick out in my mind as frustrating and that BF as a series in whole just makes me think 'frustrating'. But when i go back and think about my time in modern warfare I cant really think of anything that sticks out. The only fun i had in BF3 was diverting the game and trolling people. Stealing a jet and crashing it into a base (my own base if i was feeling particularly randy), while being fun, isnt a valid basis for 'best competitive multiplayer'(although ryan would seem to disagree).

I would've loved to see them discuss that topic more, and not just brush off the whole fighting genre because obviously he best competitive multiplayer game has to be a shooter. It was a positive that the runners up weren't shooters and its nice that they still think about local playing to some extent(You Dont Know Jack), But if your willing to say 'well local is multiplayer too' why not take those things into account when you briefly brush off fighting games? I think fighting games as a whole had a valid claim to best competitive multiplayer and personally i think its just sad that they didnt get a chance because there's no one at the site that wanted to fight for it past "MK had broken netcode when it was released".

@Gyrfal: yeah, it does. It's a shame too since I count it among this years greatest.

I agree with you guys on most points, especialy on "Best Looking" and "Best Competitive Multiplayer". The Witcher 2 is an incredible looking game on both a technical and artistic sense(It's also a really good RPG. It's very unforgiving thought). Battlefield 3 is a fucking blast. Me and my brother have our "Battlefield 3 nights" where we talk on Skype while blowing shit up. It's awesome.

My only gripe is that I feel that Mr. North didn't get enough praise for his great job voicing Deadpool in Marvel Vs Capcom 3. I admit that I'm biased on this because Deadpool is my favorite comic book character and I played the shit out of Marvel Vs Capcom 3 and still play the shit out of Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3.

Uncharted 3 not getting the award for best looking game just doesn't make sense to me. I know it's just opinions, but it almost seems like they're scared of giving it to U3. Yes this sounds biased from a guy with a blue username, but it doesn't matter. It just doesn't make sense to me. It's not like it JUST looks amazing technically (the fucking water and textures I've never seen in any game before), but artistically it looks great as well!. Combining that with the situations that they put you in, it's a delicious delicious candy for your eyes! 

Best bombcast in a long time, some really hilarious moments. Some wild shit was said and none wilder than:

"The Bioware thing scares me on a real spiritual level" -Ryan Davis

Poor Baird, I thought he was great in Gears 1. He kind of took a back seat in the other two but he's still my favorite Gears character. Also, Crysis 2 looks amazing.

@mrshmearo said:

It's such small coffin oh god bahaha

Tears of laughter, seriously. I love the end of the year on Giant Bomb.

This one was really good, I think. I liked their best looking game discussion a lot, and the ones that came out of the two categories after that.

I had forgotten how good looking Dead Space 2 really is. Brad's point about those huge outdoor environments really brought it back to me. Damn, that's a great game.

@Milkman said:

@Duffyside: Dude, what? You're going to try and tell me that everyone playing multiplayer shooter is solely concerned with their K/D? Anytime I have played Battlefield the most fun I've had is when I'm crashing jets and seeing crazy explosions. There's room for both in these games but the thought that it's somehow wrong to play Halo just because you want to drive a Warthog is exactly why I don't play a lot of shooters.

I can't tell you how many times I've jumped into a Warthog on a Halo map drove directly into the enemy and exploded. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I'm having fun.

No, I know that everyone playing a multiplayer shooter isn't just concerned with their K/D. And, unless we're playing Team Deathmatch, I don't want them to be. I want them to be concerned with winning the game.

There is a place for the kinds of things you're looking for; single-player, custom games, getting a party of likeminded friends, and some games even show-off weird playlists that I feel fit that "I just want to have fun goofing around" mentality. But, yeah... I get more than a little frustrated when I go into quick match and there is a member of my team (or many of them) only concerned with getting their K/D up, or with getting an achievement, or just sitting around waiting for a weapon/vehicle to spawn. That makes it less fun for everyone else.

Of course, there is really no way to "fix" this. But... bah, now I'd be getting way deeper into multiplayer-design philosophy than anyone would care to read — including myself — so I'll stop.

Wow, they sounded genuinely freaked out by Jeff's "The coffin's so small." quip.

The Giantbomb wiki says Nolan North played the consular (character I am playing) in SWTOR, Maury Sterling played the smuggler. Is Giantbomb wiki incorrect? =P 
 
Just throwin that out there

It is the time of year when we take stock of the true essence of virtue, virtual entertainment products and their ilk. Godspeed gentlemen.

@H2Oyea said:

Uncharted 3 not getting the award for best looking game just doesn't make sense to me. I know it's just opinions, but it almost seems like they're scared of giving it to U3. Yes this sounds biased from a guy with a blue username, but it doesn't matter. It just doesn't make sense to me. It's not like it JUST looks amazing technically (the fucking water and textures I've never seen in any game before), but artistically it looks great as well!. Combining that with the situations that they put you in, it's a delicious delicious candy for your eyes!

I've seen The Witcher 2 on the PC. It's insane.

Deus Ex Human Revolution is technically a 3.

Given the absurd level of love for Deus Ex and the absurd level of hatred of Deus Ex 2, that Human Revolution came out the way it did and was received the way it was... probably woulda been worth considering it for Best Use of 3.

@chilibean_3 said:

@atomic_dumpling said:

Most brain-numbing overuse of a word in comments 2011: "opinion".

Couldn't agree more. But it's more of how it's used as the catch all excuse of "It's all, just, like, opinion, maaaaaaaaaaaaan."

I would like to add the words "awkward" and "hate" as runners-up to that.

"Green and orange and purple, so many primary colors in Trine 2." Silly Brad.

Why all the Baird hate guys? :(

@fantasyfreak07 said:

Why all the Baird hate guys? :(

Because fuck Baird! He's the wisecracking character who just says dumb, unfunny shit. And does nothing else besides randomly fix stuff or make explosives. Booo, Baird!

@CornBREDX said:

The Giantbomb wiki says Nolan North played the consular (character I am playing) in SWTOR, Maury Sterling played the smuggler. Is Giantbomb wiki incorrect? =P Just throwin that out there

No, the wiki is accurate. They got it wrong in the podcast.

great stuff. hell yes witcher 2 looks really good. great design and great technical. pretty cool they threw up the flag on the bioware cliff. Hopefully EA doesn't drown Bioware.

Baird is my favorite Gears character, screw you guys.

@H2Oyea: I totally see where you're coming from, but I think you should check out some PC games. As the Bombcast guys discussed in length, this generation of consoles has overstayed its welcome. Compare titles like Uncharted 3 to even Unreal engine PC games - there's no comparison. Let's be honest here, Uncharted 3 wasn't even 1080p. It's goddamn beautiful when you consider the system it was built on, but the spotlight for impressive visuals has shifted. At a certain point, it doesn't matter how many elaborate and beautiful setpieces the developer creates. There are still pretty strict technical limitations for that platform, and it's impossible to develop games that compare to the latest PC titles. I think The Witcher 2 was the correct game for this category.

Just wanted to clarify that Driver 3 or Driv3r wasn't the first use of the number as a letter. Wipeout 3, at least in EUR was titled Wip3out.

Also I liked Baird :(

@roughneck117 said:

Wait, what video is Brad talking about when he talks about Battlefield 3? Anyone got a link or information about that?

I believe it's this. Courtesy of Joystiq

I really hate the fact, that on every site the main argument against UC 3, is that UC 2 was already great. I understand if someone does not like the combat, or the linearity but cutting UC 3 instead of Dead Space 2, because UC 2 looked fantastic and Dead Space 1 not, is bullshit. When it comes to best looking game, why does it matter how the previous one looked?

@Balex1908 said:

I really hate the fact, that on every site the main argument against UC 3, is that UC 2 was already great. I understand if someone does not like the combat, or the linearity but cutting UC 3 instead of Dead Space 2, because UC 2 looked fantastic and Dead Space 1 not, is @#!*% . When it comes to best looking game, why does it matter how the previous one looked?

In fact, I played both through this year and I can say definitively that UC3 looks way better than UC2. Especially in character faces and animation. It's a huge step up, even if memory doesn't make it seem that way. I think it's the best looking game this year, though granted I haven't seen Witcher II running full blast.

@Balex1908 said:

I really hate the fact, that on every site the main argument against UC 3, is that UC 2 was already great. I understand if someone does not like the combat, or the linearity but cutting UC 3 instead of Dead Space 2, because UC 2 looked fantastic and Dead Space 1 not, is bullshit. When it comes to best looking game, why does it matter how the previous one looked?

Games aren't made or judged in a vacuum. Doom 2 looks amazing... if you've never played anything since. Besides, they had legitimate reasons for all other entries.

Darth North

The Wriggedy-Wreck category needs to check itself. It's Wiggedy-Whack. It sounded like everyone disliked sequels as a nominee except Vinny, let alone having it win. But there it sits, on it's throne.

@freakin9 said:

The Wriggedy-Wreck category needs to check itself. It's Wiggedy-Whack. It sounded like everyone disliked sequels as a nominee except Vinny, let alone having it win. But there it sits, on it's throne.

Yup. Also, most sequels this year were pretty damn awesome.

@H2Oyea: Agreed

@freakin9 said:

The Wriggedy-Wreck category needs to check itself. It's Wiggedy-Whack. It sounded like everyone disliked sequels as a nominee except Vinny, let alone having it win. But there it sits, on it's throne.

VINNY IS INFALLIBLE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

The Wriggedy-Wreck category needs to check itself. It's Wiggedy-Whack. It sounded like everyone disliked sequels as a nominee except Vinny, let alone having it win. But there it sits, on it's throne.

honorable mention for best visuals: el shaddai.

@Duffyside: I'm more getting tired of "Everything is awesome, but nobody is happy"

N-no....no....A lot of the big sequels this year were creatively bankrupt and lazy. They're letting developers off to easily.

@Marokai said: What gives you the idea that Brad is in contact with PR more than anyone else?

Bonus question, do you feel bad about putting brackets inside of brackets?

@Marokai said:

@freakin9 said:

The Wriggedy-Wreck category needs to check itself. It's Wiggedy-Whack. It sounded like everyone disliked sequels as a nominee except Vinny, let alone having it win. But there it sits, on it's throne.

I don't know what segment I was listening to, there, then. Because it seemed like Jeff and Patrick were completely on board, there was just a lot of arguing over semantics. The most dissent I heard was just from Brad trying to be the suck-up (which isn't necessarily surprising, given his supposed position among the bomb crew of being the guy that is (or has been) more often in contact with PR and publishers. Being negative might hurt those early review copies). If anything, this was really the first interesting and deliberative GOTY podcast so far for this year. It's refreshing to hear them just be completely forward with how they feel, particularly Ryan's opinion on the Bioware debacle. That's just downright depressing. I definitely think there was a compelling argument to be made for the "BioWare Infinite" phenomenon over the "Sequel Fatigue" problem; but considering Dragon Age 2, they're related problems.

Eh, if you heard the whole thing noone was on board, but it just came down to a lack of passion for the other nominees. So they were like eh, lets move on. Besides I'm kinda just having fun with the category name, not sure how you took my post completely seriously. I think you're being ridiculous about Brad's place, he has a certain type of personality, but to take his credibility into question is kinda out of line. To make it clear, noone agreed that sequels were a good thing, it was more a, eh, why mention something that isn't going to change, and is a complaint every year, etc. etc.

@Marokai said: What gives you the idea that Brad is in contact with PR more than anyone else?

Bonus question, do you feel bad about putting brackets inside of brackets?

@mortal_sb said:

honorable mention for best visuals: el shaddai.

No. No way in hell. That sort of game happens when you design a game without any art direction. Judging from the bits I saw from it, they even went without any sort of direction whatsoever. I know visuals are a matter of taste.. but in this case: Just because it looks different doesn´t mean it looks good.

@Superfriend: it's an art game dealing with a cutural topic. i can understand if the style doesn't suite you but man.. some of the levels in this game look sheer incredible. the way to the tower was one of the most stylized things i've seen this generation.

They talk about how Capcom is burning through Street Fighter again like they did in the 90s.. I think Capcom is specifically behaving this way because they figure it is inevitably a fad and they want to cash in as quickly as possible, that's how most of the video game industry does seem to be behaving.