I'm sure, by now, you all know about the swathe of press (some mainstream) regarding Star Wars Battlefront 2's loot boxes and the way that they impact on both the game's progression system and gameplay.

EA took to Reddit to reassure players of their intent to provide them "with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes." This response is now said to be, by far, the most downvoted Reddit comment of all-time.

Despite a commitment to change, an AMA on Reddit (unsurprisingly) failed to resolve anything.

DICE, the game's developer, has been left "incredibly saddened" by the developments.

We're even seeing the Dutch and Belgian authorities begin to examine whether or not loot boxes qualify as a form of gambling. This could have repercussions for Dutch gamers as online gambling is currently illegal in the country (there are, however, efforts to enact a regulatory bill next year).

Finally, Wall Street industry analyst Justin Post told investors that the controversies were "a potential risk" to unit sales.

So there is, more or less, the context.

_____

Now, the question: to boycott, or not to boycott?

Personally, I am torn.

I loved the original Battlefront games. I saw promise in the pretty yet problematic reboot. I enjoyed the sequel's beta. I was (and still am) looking forward to this game.

But I believe EA, not for the first time, has crossed a line.

Like many, I've been troubled by what the loot box means and where it will end up. I recall a fellow member of the website commenting that loot boxes were fine and it would be their "hill to die on".

But this is no mere hill; it is a slippery slope.

I mean, what next: <insert your own dramatic, dystopian outcome for maximum effect>?

I mean, that's ridiculous!

I'm not going to extensively lecture anyone on how this may be the "Luke, I am your father" moment of the loot box saga, but I will say this:

We, the consumers (shudders), have used our buying power to elevate or sink video games throughout our lives. Often it is because these games were harshly reviewed by journalists, weren't effectively marketed (shudders again) by publishers or didn't create any noise among us players.

Battlefront 2 is a big game, from a big developer, from a big publisher - and it is creating big noise.

Halo 5's systems irritated, but not on this level - neither in terms of controversy generated or insidiousness.

If there is going to be any dent against the loot box as anything more than a fashion statement for those with spending power, it will surely have to happen as a result of this game.

We all know that financial gain is the end goal of Captain EAhab's pursuits. If they round up enough whales, they will tell their investors that this experiment was a success.

And thus another door is opened; another industry practice is normalised.

So will you help drag EAhab to the bottom of the sea?

Will you be unlocking your 'dark side'?

Or do you believe that action (or inaction) won't have an effect either way?

Right now, I'm bououououoycotting the game.

Way ahead of you, pal. I already don't buy any games with this microtransaction nonsense.

Support what you like and don't support what you hate. That's the general rule.

And I really don't like the direction mainstream gaming is heading.

Beta didn't grab me so i won't be getting it anyway, and i have never bought a loot box from any game in my life.

I'm not sure how anyone who cares about gaming isn't already boycotting all EA games, especially with their output in 2017.

The beta sucked and I don’t like the way the unlocks work. I’m also tired of multiplayer games so there’s no way I’m buying this. I’m gonna continue playing Mario and try and get wolfenstein 2 as soon as I can.

Well said. I want to play this game but I can't sell out the potential future of gaming to do it. I'm afraid to say at this point I will not buy it even if they do drastically change their system. They must know that this is not OK. Other companies put out great titles for $60, why does EA think they deserve more for their efforts.

Didn't their CFO come out and say something like "monetizing player enjoyment"? As long as they continue to make games for their shareholders rather than their fanbase then no matter what they make I can't support them.

I'd rather watch A Night at the Roxbury 100 times than play this game.

BFII seems like a boring game with some rotten elements. I'm not buying but I don't hold any moral high-ground over someone who does. On the scale of personal / world problems in my life, this is so far down the list it's not worth getting worked up about.

After Battlefield 1, I was on board to get this, but it wasn't 100% locked in given the tepid reaction to Battlefront 1.

After all the kerfuffle and microtransaction/progression bs, I am solidly in the "I will never buy this" camp.

I'm not going to buy the game on the principle that 1. I hate online shooters 2. I'm really freaking tired of Star Wars. The fact that they bloated the game with Micheal T.'s and then tried to save face has made it even easier for me to completely ignore it.

Gamers are fucking ridiculous. People are being slaughtered in Myanmar. If you don't want a game that pushes microtransactions, don't buy it. It doesn't need to be some sort of righteous fucking boycott to send a message to corporate fat cats.

@notdavid: I don't think the people of Myanmar would appreciate being used for the deflection you're attempting here.

I'll probably buy it after Christmas, none of the surrounding drama really matters to me. Seems like a load of hysterics.

I'm having more issues with Ubisoft and their insane PC DRM policy than anything EA has done lately.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that BF1 is a pretty great game, and the DLC for it has been very solid so far. Nobody talks about the successes, only the (perceived) failures!

I bought the game and have fun playing it without worrying about micro transactions. I didn't buy battlefront 1 because of how little content it had and how the hero system worked. They changed that stuff and I've been greatly enjoying the game.

Game doesn't look fun and i don't care about Star Wars, so sure.

I guess "boycott" is a lot shorter than "I not going to buy this videogame because it doesn't look interesting to me.".

Man, I've boycotted thousands of games over the last fifteen years. I deserve some kind of medal for sticking it to the man.

Picking up my reservation tomorrow, I'll at least try it out. The loot box progression is lame, but I can understand why EA went this route as they want this thing to go until Episode IX drops despite it not offering as many options to make money as GTAV....which has kept new content rolling in for years off their micro transactions.

I can take your exact same argument and use it to diminish your point. Yes, there are tragedies going on all over the world that doesn't mean there are not smaller things worth talking about. Are aspects of this being blown out of proportion? Yup, people are like that sometimes but that doesn't mean there isn't an issue here. If you view everything like this through the lens of a "righteous fucking boycott" I at least hope you are taking your own medicine and are consistent and you don't get upset at any issue that is less than the issue of people being slaughtered in Myanmar. Come on, man.

Last one was bad. This one seems bad.

The original Battlefront II still works.

People got to draw their own lines with this stuff. I don't begrudge anyone that's not buying the game solely based on this issue but calling a boycott is overblowing it for me. If you don't like what the game is then don't buy it that's all there is to it to me. I think EA has gotten the message that people aren't into it now all those people that complained have to be consistent and not buy the game and see how EA reacts.

I say don't buy the game; it sounds like the loot boxes in this one finally broke the progression good & proper.

If you still want it, however, I'd suggest waiting at least a year to pick it up. By that time, EA will probably quit paying attention to its sales figures.

I'm all in with it. When I get some free time, I'll buy it. I want it for the story.

@notdavid: Yes and the majority of our clothes are made by children in sweatshops in South east asia and the cobalt in all our smartphones is mined by children in Africa and the people who benefited the most from the economic collapse were the people who caused it.

These money making corporations aren't your friend. Don't stick up for them. This is a gaming website. we should point out exploitative measures in gaming. It's all we can do. EA's stock might be dropping and Belgium are going to look at the gambling aspect of lootboxes etc. Hopefully more stuff like this happens and it wouldn't if people wern't moaning on reddit etc,

EA hasn't made a game in a long time that i wanted to buy. More of an accidental boycott i guess.

I haven’t really kept up on this(at least not beyond spending “credits” on heroes and them changing the costs and how much you earn by playing), but I bought and played a lot of Shadow of War, which also features microtransactions. I didn’t spend any money beyond the price of the game. I get the objections, but they’ve been offering paid dlc for more than a decade now. Spending in-game currency to “unlock” characters is only a step of abstraction removed from buying the content directly. Making the content random, however, is not as much an abstraction as a method of milking your customers. I’m not really opposed to them as in-game rewards, but when money changes hand the consumer should know what the content is before the purchase is made.

The problem with boycott where you’re voting with your money in objection to microtransactions is that the lesson they take is that the game sold poorly, so they shouldn’t make more games (or at least make different games, as in no battlefront games). If I wanted to play BF2, I would buy it.

You can just buy the game and not purchase the loot box stuff. I'm sure they track that sort of thing.

Well, I decided I wasn't going to buy Battlefront 2 since before they announced the loot boxes, so I guess that was a preemptive boycotting.

For Xbox players, if you want to play a good Star Wars game, save the money you were gonna put on this and buy Knights of The Old Republic instead, which is backwards compatible on Xbox One. If you haven't played KOTOR yet, and don't mind playing with certain outdated elements, I strongly suggest getting it for only $10.

I think the game looks fun, but I can't support it because of the business model EA refuses to give up. The only way it's gonna change is if gamers just stop buying their games with these type of insidious revenue systems. The whole drama and EA's responses are just amazing. Entertaining in a real curious way for sure.

https://kotaku.com/ea-temporarily-removes-microtransactions-from-star-wars-1820528445

"These in-game purchases will return at some point in the future, EA says."

And in the trash it stays!

Yeah I get that, but the problem for me is that I was quite invested in buying the game for the longest time and then, right at the cusp of doing so, I found out about the P2W aspects of the game. There are not a lot of games that I've been looking forward to in recent years (I don't buy many games at all these days) and I found myself actually wanting this one. It's way easier for me to ignore games I have some interest in that include such tactics. This one stings, hence my conflict.

Thanks! I do think this is a pretty important one. Sure, we've seen shady tactics in the past that may be of a similar nature to this one, but I think the difference this time around is that everyday players have very fluid communities that can easily extend to hundreds of thousands of people - if not millions. It's a far cry from the competitive nature of gaming communities in the past. Everyone is so much more interconnected now (thanks to social media) so it makes these stances undeniably easier to communicate to a mass of similarly-minded people.

The thing that's really interesting about this is that the younger generation of gamers are making a very political statement over this debacle. Perhaps they don't realise how political they are being, but it is nevertheless a critique of corporate behaviour towards a consumer base.

Well, there seem to be many thousands partaking in this boycott of corporate practices that are seemingly intended to allure or cajole the everyday consumer into a single lane where they either choose to commit to the game for 'x' amount of hours, or buy a shortcut. I'm sorry that you cannot see the wider political machinations at work here and I too am disheartened by the historic, and continued, treatment of targeted ethnic groups in Myanmar by the junta, and the continuation of these atrocities under the 'civilian' government. A special shout-out to the complicit behaviour of the Thai government who have been exploiting the natural resources and unwilling diaspora of Myanmar for many, many years. Anyhoo, this is a video game forum, so I'll be turning the topic back to that. Thanks.

Well, I call it a boycott because it's a dictionary definition of what I'm electing to do, along with many others, so I wouldn't describe it as overblown at all. But yeah, I am looking forward to the reaction. EA just switched of all micro-transactions (for now) and said "sorry" for getting the launch wrong. Progression will be through gameplay. Seems like my boycott may be over!

Yup, great point that I hadn't even considered. There has to be a cut-off point where that sale doesn't do anything for them. And, of course, pre-owned is still an option (for now).

Personally, I wouldn't buy the game because it's not good. It's still a shooter where the shooting doesn't feel good and isn't fun (I played the beta and trial). The loot box situation is even more reason to stay away, but it would still be a pretty lame game IMO if that wasn't there. I haven't looked into this situation much, but I think people cried wolf about loot boxes when it came to Shadow of War. I've been playing that for hours and wouldn't know you could buy boxes if people online didn't bring it up.

@hassun said:

Yup, totally right to pull that quote out. But a crucial thing here is that they state: "and all progression will be earned through gameplay."

I don't think they could get away from reneging on a statement like that one, even if they justified it as 'but we meant temporarily', and I presume micro-transactions will be in relation to customisation options. I think my boycott may be over.

@ahifi: This sounds to me more like "We're going to take this stuff out until the shitstorm dies down."

Even with all the bullshit around it ignored the actual game is as vapid as the first. No depth to be found.

Agree it basically Stars Wars COD edition.

I'm not buying the game. And it's not because I'm "boycotting" it. It just looks crappy.

@hassun said:

Oh absolutely, it wouldn't surprise me.

If they had just said that they were taking them out temporarily, I'd be convinced that it was a grimy tactic; but it's the introduction of the idea, on EA's website no less, that progression will not be tied to micro-transactions. I cannot even see EA getting away with that one. It'd be outrageous. Remember that Disney also has a stake in all of this too and you've got to wonder if the LA Times debacle has factored into them putting their foot down with EA.

Again, customisation options have already been confirmed (they have to be approved by Disney, apparently) so I find it more likely that they'll transfer the micro-transaction heat onto even more over-priced cosmetics. Or it could be related to the 'Free' DLC. Perhaps they will tie any new items or heroes to micro-transaction, while keeping the new maps free?

Anyway, this seems like a victory nonetheless. The big, bad wolf of video games has been humbled (or, rather, humiliated into submission) by the sheep.

@ahifi: From what I heard the loot boxes for cosmetic customization were always planned but just weren't finished in time.

This decision is driven by the all mighty dollar. The only way that EA will get the message is if ALL GAMERS refuse to buy their product. Here is their stock quote over the last five days. Our outrage is not having much effect. To make a difference we need to boycott all EA purchases and do so over a significant period so that it affects their bottom line. Hurt their stock price to do the most damage.

@hassun: Sounds about right. What we can likely assume is that they will be re-introducing micro-transactions for customisation. So in that sense, they were never going to switch micro-transactions completely off - nor could they make such a definitive statement. Shame the game didn't ship with them as that uncertainty would be cleared up. However, if they do indeed do as you have suggested, I will never buy a game from EA ever again.

Which, ya know, isn't as dramatic as it sounds - given that I've bought two EA games in the past seven years... But still!

Breaking news!!! EA has temporarily removed microstractions https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/16668234/battlefront-2-loot-boxes-crystal-microtransactions-removed-ea

@ahifi: I find the situation similar to when I got rid of cable. As soon as I was rid of it, I did not miss it. There are plenty of games out there that are of high quality and do not engage in these disgusting practices

@ahifi said:

From dictionary.com:

boy·cottˈboiˌkät/

verb

withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.

From Wikipedia:

"A boycott is an act of voluntary and intentional abstention from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for social, political, or environmental reasons."

This is the dictionary definition of a boycott and you are doing neither. Refusing to buy Star Wars is not boycotting EA your just not buying Star Wars. If I wanted to boycott Nintendo because I thought Mario did some shady shit I wouldn't say "I'm boycotting Mario Odyssey" but still buy a Switch or Zelda or anything else labeled Nintendo because that isn't what a boycott is. So to go back to my original post I think calling it a boycott is overblowing it for me. I'm not willing to say (or advocate for) never going to buy an EA product again until they stop with microtransactions or do it in a way that isn't gross (which would be an actual boycott). And from this post, I don't think that is what you're saying either. If a singular game has questionable business practices I personally wouldn't buy that game but if the same company came out with a different game that was worth buying and without those practices I would buy it. Choosing not to buy a singular product (regardless of the reason) is not a boycott.

If you don't agree with EA and its use of microtransactions then yes, let them know that. If your way of letting them know is not buying the game then, buy all means, don't by the game. If you want to abstain from buying anything EA makes until they change their ways that's overdoing it for me but do what you want.

@fatalbanana said:

If it didn't come across in my post that I meant boycotting EA, fair enough, but you could have just asked me rather than assuming my intent?

I mean, for example, I could assume that you wrote 'overblown' because you believed I was being rather pretentious in my use of the word 'boycott'. After all, the dictionary definition of 'overblown' is:

adjective

1. made to seem more impressive or important than is the case; exaggerated or pretentious.

I do not think it would be unreasonable me to think, or feel, that was your intent given the definition of 'overblown'. But that's not true, right? Because then I'd be assuming your intent was to be needlessly passive aggressive in your response to me (without clarifying if that's what you intended), and that wouldn't be a nice assumption to make!

Finally:

As aforementioned, I've only bought two EA games in the past seven years (The Sims 3, as a present for someone else; and Battlefront) so, in my mind, me boycotting this game and boycotting EA is pretty much one for one. Again, if that didn't come across in the initial post, I get that, but I think the above post makes it clear that I've made up my mind on all of this. As long as EA don't do the progression-based micro-transactions, I may still yet buy Battlefront II. If they re-introduce MTs to the game within that context, I'm not going to buy any of their games ever again. Now THAT'S me being overblown!

Anyway, given the EA announcement, and the off-topic exposition, I think this thread has ran its course - thanks for the input all!

This. I'm not buying it because I have no interest in a game with progression and unlocks tied to randomized loot boxes you earn at a snail's pace, but I'm not pretending it's part of some righteous "boycotting" crusade to "stick it to the man" and "fight the oppression." I'm simply a discerning consumer. If you're pretending it's some great moral thing to not buy a game based on features that don't appeal to you (and that's really all it comes down to if you're honest)... stop it.

Full disclosure: I bought the game, but will never buy a loot crate ever. I suppose I'm not "doing my part" because I'm supporting a game that initially tried to break new ground in terms of loot crate awfulness. I don't really care. I bought the game because Star Wars, because one of my best friends who will never own a gaming console will get some real enjoyment out of playing it with me, and because I'll likely manage to get enough out of the visuals and gameplay to warrant the purchase. I'm fully prepared to be criticized endlessly for it by people who gleefully bought several hundreds of dollars worth of Overwatch skin bullshit and helped this crap become common in the first place.

Also, it isn't particularly impressive to NOT buy something. It's pretty easy, actually. I'd be a lot more impressed if the self-proclaimed heroes started actively buying more games WITHOUT this stuff. Putting your non-money where your mouth is isn't on par with putting your money where your mouth is in my book.

I wonder if other industries have so many people, so proud of themselves for not buying a product. Now, if you stopped buying games from all companies that use loot boxes in any way I would be slightly impressed, but at the end of the day it is your money, do what you want with it.

This echoes my thoughts, except the Ubisoft PC DRM (I don't game on PC). I recently got back into BF1 and bought the season pass. Having a blast!