So - in an interview on Giantbomb - Dustin Browder says that in Starcraft, everything is considered fair play if it can be done and if it can be countered. So I was wondering what everyone thinks about the old Protoss/protoss or terran/protoss void ray rush (i'm talking from 2v2 perspectives).
Any player who Void Ray rushes and has the slightest ounce of skill seems pretty much unbeatable, here's how the tactic works in 2v2.
1. You wall off your bases with photon cannons or bunkers.
2. You get one player to feed the other all his resources.
3. You've got a lot of void rays out before anyone knows whats what.
Now, I'm not saying the tactic is unbeatable and uncounterable. But it's SO EASY to do compared to any other kind of rush in the game. If you rush players doing these tactics you crash against the walls of photon cannons (fair enough) - but once your rush fails there is no coming back from it.
If you don't rush and tech up, void rays will eat through your army/bases. It's an easy option for people to do this void ray rush thing, and it gets a little boring.
Have Blizzard ever commented on this or what are the community's thoughts?
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty
Game » consists of 10 releases. Released Jul 27, 2010
The first chapter in the StarCraft II trilogy focuses on the struggles of the Terran race, as seen through the eyes of Commander Jim Raynor, leader of the rebel group Raynor's Raiders.
Void Ray rush / Counters
2v2 is unbalanced with a Terran and a Protoss.
Terrea can spam mules and feed all the money to Protoss, while the Protoss just Krono boosts tons of units outs.
this is a broken ass tactic
the way ive got around it is by jumping reapers into their base (therefore passing the cannon wall) and hitting their eco
usually best to target protoss for this, a couple of reapers can take out the stargate feeder pylons pretty fast
after that theyre sitting ducks
there is no comment from blizzard because it is a stupid question. seriously, would everyone stop with this bs. pro starcraft players played beta for years. you really think they made such obvious oversight and that you are the first after 6-7 years of development who thought of this. seriously?
so let me answer a question with a question.
why do you think "ghost" is in the game?
another oversight?
they put completely useless unit because obviously nobody uses nukes?
why would thelittleone , pro player, say something like "ghost is my favourite unite esp against protoss" ?
99% of problems people have with game balance its their incompetence . they don't know the counters. they don't realise every race is
starcraft 2 is not a perfect game but it is not so unbalanced as people bitch all day long and voidrays are not overpowered .
also. this is not easiest 2v2 rush. play against skilled zerg. in 16min they can have a base pumping 30 unit waves and more. thank god
they are not in singleplayer as playable race. it would be less fun on the battlenet... I remember the first one...
and bragging about rush tactics? I know people who got into platinum with nothing but reaper rush or m/m/m rush. in six months all of this wont work.
I just hope people will respond to your post and we finally settle this bs for good.
I could easily tell you if it was 1v1, but 2v2's are balanced at all and really, there are some tactics in 2v2's you'll never stop.
marine stimpacked can crush through void rays especially with medivacs, stalkers can kill off void rays if you also blink them they can last twice as long in the fight, and hydralisks can kill void rays.. the only problem youll have is if you let the player reach void rays max laser beam, without that you should be able to kill him off
" this is a broken ass tactic the way ive got around it is by jumping reapers into their base (therefore passing the cannon wall) and hitting their eco usually best to target protoss for this, a couple of reapers can take out the stargate feeder pylons pretty fast after that theyre sitting ducks "Thank you dude, that is a great idea. I'm gonna experiment with some reaper rushes.
@Fragstoff said:
" the only 2v2 map I've seen that the protoss/terran shared money thing really becomes a problem is on twilight fortress since the naturals are inside and is shared base. games where the 2 bases are seperate this strat doesn't work nearly as well, since you can just double early push the played giving away minerals. "
You're absolutely right with this. We've lost pretty much every match on Twilight fortress when this tactic is pulled.
To explain again though the point I was trying to make since some (and by 'some' I mean kinkywizard) seem to have misunderstood. Void rays are fast, mobile, deadly and easily obtainable. But most of all (talking from a terran point of view), their doesn't seem to be a solid counter against massed void rays. Sure, you might get lucky but realistically - a decent player will outmaneuver you, and if they make it your base - it's pretty much game over. It seems unfair to me that protoss have access to this giant 10 ton hammer so easily.
Don't get me wrong, we've beaten so many guys who've attempted to mass Void Rays, it's not totally uncounterable like we've all said - but the SLIGHTEST mistake along the way and its game over. No other unit is like this. So first of all: it doesn't seem fair, second: it's lazy on the player's part and thirdly it makes it less fun.
Just sayin'. :)
" 2v2 is unbalanced with a Terran and a Protoss. Terrea can spam mules and feed all the money to Protoss, while the Protoss just Krono boosts tons of units outs. "Void rays are more of a gas oriented build than minerals.
" Vikings are very strong against void rays. Just micro them back and forth. "Ooo yeah, that's tried to be the plan so far - if I discover the other guy is going void rays, try and mass vikings and meet them in the field before they roll into my base.
Also, what I wanted to say in my previous post to sum up - when I'm beaten by anything - zergling rushes, photon cannon rushes, straight up massing of anything else - anything. I feel 'Fair enough, I was outplayed there.' When I'm beaten by a Void Ray rush, It feels like the other guy cheated.
" @zombie2011 said:I was talking about in general, not for Void Rays." 2v2 is unbalanced with a Terran and a Protoss. Terrea can spam mules and feed all the money to Protoss, while the Protoss just Krono boosts tons of units outs. "Void rays are more of a gas oriented build than minerals. "
This is why I always keep on scouting, and doing early harassment. If I know my opponent is going void rays i'll have a suitable anti-air counter before the attack. And if its a 2v2 match if the counter goes well you can easily crush a pair of opponents where one has no army after having their aerial units destroyed, and the other maybe having a burgeoning army and having to rely on micro to survive. And if you have to deal with cannons just find a way to position your forces out of their attacks and destroy the pylons first.
If they choose to wall in then you really need to take the map, expand frequently and try to get as much vision as possible. As mentioned before, marines and vikings are great against void rays. The zerg player should be massing hydras and getting extra queens.
With map control, you should know when the VR's move out and where they are. Then engage them while they are not charged. The extra income from the expansions and a good army composition should crush the void rays.
Having Turrets near your minerals is always a good idea, both for Rays and Phase Prism harassment as well as detection. Not much of anything will do you much good if they start cooking your Command Center and other strong targets. Nothing worse than taking it from the backdoor.
Well if you're talking just unit vs unit sure they are tough but ghost sap their shield to null and then you need 4 marines. every rush is punishment for a macro mistake. like not scouting, not controlling high ground, low on gas , mass tier 2 units, avoiding units with special powers because you hate the micro...
I don't bitch about vr much ' cuase protoss is dull middle ground and I hate to play with them. they are typical rts race and vr are only truly awesome unit they have. so they can keep their vr ... just give it time... they take to much gas . if you counter vr with minimum losses its game over for protoss anyway...
in month or two they'll start combining them with zealots, but in month or two people will learn how to play with zerg . then you'll see void rush only against rookie terran player...
1v1 is not a problem. 4v4? most units are overpowered. and cheap.
I seriously sugest playing mix team or attacking early. it does take time to mass them if you are building defence to... also learn how to use ghost and ravens well. there is a challange in game for them and you need gold to deal with vr...
gl hf
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