Something went wrong. Try again later
    Follow

    Super Mario Sunshine

    Game » consists of 6 releases. Released Jul 19, 2002

    While vacationing on tropical Isle Delfino, Mario is framed for vandalism committed by his own shadowy doppelganger, forcing the paroled plumber to clean up the entire island by using a specialized water-spraying device known as F.L.U.D.D.

    Super Mario Sunshine is Dumb

    Avatar image for pistonhyundai
    PistonHyundai

    30

    Forum Posts

    1

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 1

    Edited By PistonHyundai
    Mario is one of my favorite franchises. My favorite game of all-time is a Mario game. Some of my best friends are Mario games. Super Mario Sunshine is a bad game.
    Mario is one of my favorite franchises. My favorite game of all-time is a Mario game. Some of my best friends are Mario games. Super Mario Sunshine is a bad game.

    In the midst of some Twitter shenanigans, someone asked me in earnest about Super Mario Sunshine's status as a shitheap (I might be paraphrasing), so I decided to humor him with a rougher draft of what you're about to read. It's nowhere near the worst game ever made, but it's one I feel pretty strongly about, so hopefully this covers just about everything that makes the game such a disappointment.

    So, Super Mario Bros. played a huge part in bringing video games back into American culture after the crash of '83, and had a de facto role in defining what a 2D platformer is and all that good shit. Super Mario Bros. 2, despite its sordid history and black sheep status, is a weird, fun game that introduces multiple playable characters with different traits while adding some much-welcome verticality to everything. SMB3 refined pretty much every aspect, blew out the amount of power-ups and items to the point that they had to add an inventory system, and also introduced overarching themes to the worlds of the game (which were represented in the new world map, making each one more memorable). Super Mario World took a sledgehammer to the structure of the game and put a greater emphasis on secrets and non-linearity than any other 2D game in the series to date. Super Mario 64 wrote the book on how to make a 3D action game in 1996, gave Mario a plethora of new moves, and also introduced a more open-ended approach to the gameplay.

    Super Mario Sunshine doesn't really do much of anything to truly distinguish itself. Instead, it comes off as a half-baked tropical retread of Super Mario 64, but with the addition of FLUDD. This would be perfectly fine if they had still made a great game (after all, you don't have to do anything revolutionary to justify making something, even in a series with entries as monumental as the ones prior to Sunshine), but even ignoring the weight of the series' legacy resting on its shoulders, Sunshine is simply a rushed, uneven mess.

    The frame rate was cut in half during development to improve the water effects. At least it looks nice, right?
    The frame rate was cut in half during development to improve the water effects. At least it looks nice, right?

    The biggest issue Sunshine has is its structure. 64 had you picking and choosing which objectives you wanted to complete, unlocking new worlds at a steady rate along the way. The only real barrier to completion was the amount of stars you needed, and the game made this pretty clear. Sunshine takes a different approach, expecting you to complete the Shadow Mario episode in each world before you can unlock the final level. This isn't necessarily a problem in itself, but this leads to several major issues. Because the Shadow Mario episode is always the seventh out of eight shines you can get in a world, you have to do the majority of what each world has to offer if you want to beat the game. This inevitably leads to situations where you're pigeonholed into missions that you don't want to do, something that can easily be made worse by the fact that the game doesn't ever actually tell you that this what you have to do. The game never communicates anything about your progression, so you're left to your own devices to figure out how to unlock Yoshi, the other two FLUDD nozzles, and the final level. If you're the type of player to save undesirable objectives for later, you'll no doubt reach a point where you're trapped between 3 or 4 bad missions, with no choice but to do them all in a single painful sequence. Even worse, this approach to progression undermines all of the shines found outside (and a handful inside) the game's seven worlds, rendering about 70 different objectives pointless for those not going for 100% completion. That might be for the best, however, as the game's mission design is so scattershot that I can't imagine anybody would want to do more than they'd have to.

    You know how people talk about "that level" of a game? How a game will have one moment that just sticks out because of how disproportionately bad it is compared to the rest of the game? Psychonauts has the Meat Circus, San Andreas has the toy airplane mission, and of course, there's that one game (Just the one!) with the really shitty stealth mission in it even though it isn't a stealth game. You know the one I'm talking about. Anyway, Super Mario Sunshine is a game full of those levels. You have the Chucksters, the watermelons, the sandbird, the hotel puzzle, the dreadful Mecha Bowser fight, Yoshi's Fruit Adventure, the pachinko, the lily pad, and so on. There are so many questionable or outright bad episodes in Sunshine that you're not going to get through a session of it without running into at least one thoroughly unpleasant experience. The worst part about it is that it totally didn't have to be this way: if the game had the structure of Super Mario 64, you could've been able to navigate the minefield in a way that would minimize your exposure to garbage.

    Sunshine is front-loaded with five different encounters of this repetitive, basic mini-boss.
    Sunshine is front-loaded with five different encounters of this repetitive, basic mini-boss.

    If, for some reason, you decide that you do want to get everything in the game, you'll find that Sunshine has been padded to hell and back, trying to fill Super Mario 64's shoes with feet a fraction of the size. A whopping 20% of the game's 120 Shine Sprites are relegated to the collection of 240 blue coins scattered throughout every area in the game. If not outright brainless, they're a hassle to collect (all too frequently placed in esoteric locations), and the lack of a decent tracking system for them makes it a nightmare without a guide. The game also recycles boss fights incredibly frequently. Over the course of the game, you fight a goopy piranha plant five times, Gooper Blooper three times, and chase the aforementioned Shadow Mario eleven times, with the only real difference in each encounter being the location it takes place.

    This could all be forgiven to an extent if the core gameplay was solid, and sure enough, moving Mario around is one of the highlights of Sunshine. Unfortunately, this takes a backseat to the elephant in the room. FLUDD sucks. It's a decent enough idea, but it just sucks. It seems like it actually hampers your platforming ability just as much as it improves it. Think about how snappy moving Mario is in 64. How you can just flick the analog stick around and do sidejumps a flip around like it was nothing. Sunshine still lets you do this, but FLUDD seems to run counterpoint to the fluid movement of 3D Mario games, as every platforming function it serves does so in the least satisfying fashion. The hover nozzle has you ascending at a snail's pace and turning awkwardly, with gaps that would've been cleared with a simple double jump or long jump being turned into painfully slow ordeals. You'd think the rocket nozzle would be a good answer to this, but not only do you have to wait for the actual burst of water to charge up, you almost always have to wait a great deal of time to fall back down (as you're all but guaranteed to overshoot your jump by a wide margin), taking any thrill out of shooting up into the sky. The turbo nozzle, however, is admittedly a fun thing to mess around with, making surfaces of water a joy to dart around on. Unfortunately, it's by far the nozzle the game does the least with. Even the FLUDD-less high points of the game are sullied by the 30FPS frame rate and mercurial camera, resulting in a considerable drought of enjoyable platforming, a cardinal sin for a Mario game.

    Alright, maybe this is a bit much, but the cutscenes are still pretty bad.
    Alright, maybe this is a bit much, but the cutscenes are still pretty bad.

    Finally, there's the story. Frankly, the fact that I'm talking about the story of a Mario game at all should be an immediate red flag, here. Sunshine puts more of a focus on the storytelling than any other game in the series, and it's as frustrating as it is bizarre. The game's opening moments are packed with dialogue, which is hilarious considering that the two primary characters never talk in complete sentences. Instead of having Mario or Peach interact with other characters in plain English, FLUDD and Toadsworth (a character seemingly created solely to act as a narrative envoy for the protagonists) do much of the heavy lifting, with the former spouting (holy lord I am so god damn clever) a monologue for a solid minute before having the nerve to do the old "Do you want me to repeat this?" nonsense. It starts the game off on the worst possible foot, and the introduction of Bowser Jr. and his equally uninspired Shadow Mario form doesn't help much, either. Normally, I wouldn't give a shit about any of this one way or another, but the game never once allows you to skip a cutscene, and it gets to be intolerable very quickly.

    If there's one thing you can give Super Mario Sunshine credit for, it's ambition. Even if it plays out like a nightmare version of Super Mario 64 a lot of the time, there's still a distinct atmosphere to the it, and FLUDD alone is emblematic of the type of risks Nintendo was willing to take with the series that put them on the map. It's just a shame that none of those risks paid off.

    Avatar image for frostyryan
    FrostyRyan

    2936

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    3D World is much worse than Sunshine.

    ^

    OP maybe yur dum

    Avatar image for ungodly
    Ungodly

    465

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Sunshine was fine when it came out, but wasn’t enjoyable enough to stand the test of time. Which could be it’s greatest flaw, when you think about how much fun you can still have with the first four Mario games that came out. Regardless the people that love it, do so because of nostalgia, or see something special regardless of its flaws. I don’t think it’s necessary to have an editorial about how bad a game with a niche following is, even if it’s a part of a beloved franchise.

    The biggest test of quality for Nintendo and the Mario games, is that they continue to make excellent games in a long running series, that only has a few games that are just “alright”. You could make the case that Mario Sunshine is awful, but the game was released a long time ago, and the Mario franchise has earned a few free passes.

    Avatar image for themanwithnoplan
    TheManWithNoPlan

    7843

    Forum Posts

    103

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 14

    No Caption Provided

    Avatar image for bongchilla
    bongchilla

    377

    Forum Posts

    16

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    Was it as transcendent as Mario 64? No. Was it as polished as Galaxy 1 & 2? No. But it was a very good game for its time and while some parts have not aged well, its still a good game today. Don't let perfection be the enemy of good.

    Avatar image for frostyryan
    FrostyRyan

    2936

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Also I can't even fathom the idea that this game doesn't try to distinguish itself from 64. They...gave you a water jetpack and gun. It's the weirdest most creative thing

    Avatar image for neurogia
    Neurogia

    148

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    If you wanna talk about a Mario game that reuses the same boring mechanics for every world, has terrible pacing, and reuses bossfights then go and play Mario Odyssey, then come back and talk to me.

    Since Odyssey's release, Super Mario Sunshine now comfortably rests in the "good" pile of Mario games in the last 30 years.

    Avatar image for rigas
    Rigas

    950

    Forum Posts

    179

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    This is one of those April Fools japes right?

    Avatar image for luchalma
    Luchalma

    575

    Forum Posts

    1

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Sunshine is great, and I simply won't have this revisionist bullshit that it has always sucked!

    Avatar image for deactivated-61356eb4a76c8
    deactivated-61356eb4a76c8

    1021

    Forum Posts

    679

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 9

    Nuh-uh you’re dumb!

    Avatar image for nicksmi56
    nicksmi56

    922

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    I won't deny that there are some aspects of Sunshine I didn't really like (blue coins!) or that 64 is the overall better game, but I can't go as far as calling it outright bad. It's still a great game to me.

    Avatar image for humanity
    Humanity

    21858

    Forum Posts

    5738

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 40

    User Lists: 16

    @neurogia: but Dan told me that Odyssey has redefined platforms as we know it!

    Avatar image for imhungry
    imhungry

    1619

    Forum Posts

    1315

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 3

    I think I more or less agree about the level design and the progression structure being poor but I totally disagree about FLUDD being bad. Just from reading what you wrote it seems as if you're treating FLUDD as some separate mechanic from all the other movement tech they introduced during the game but they're really two things that are meant to work in concert. You're right that the jetpack is slow and has a bad turning radius but that's because it's clearly not meant to be used by itself but more as a jump assist and extender - note that the speed you travel with the jetpack is dependent on your momentum before activation. I'm not of the camp that thinks Sunshine is the best game ever, it's fairly low on my list of Mario games, but the movement options + FLUDD are some of the best in the series and are only hampered by the unfortunate camera.

    I don't have a lot of good things to say about the Rocket Nozzle but IMO it works for why it's there, which is to enable them to have a different variety of puzzles and it more or less works. Your complaints seem more like just impatience than actual gripes with mechanics.

    Avatar image for pistonhyundai
    PistonHyundai

    30

    Forum Posts

    1

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 1

    @ungodly said:

    Sunshine was fine when it came out, but wasn’t enjoyable enough to stand the test of time. Which could be it’s greatest flaw, when you think about how much fun you can still have with the first four Mario games that came out. Regardless the people that love it, do so because of nostalgia, or see something special regardless of its flaws. I don’t think it’s necessary to have an editorial about how bad a game with a niche following is, even if it’s a part of a beloved franchise.

    Honestly, my only memories of playing it at release are of using a Prima guide to get all the blue coins because I was a dumb kid that didn't respect his own time, so even the nostalgia factor isn't really a thing for me.

    Anyway, yeah, it's totally unnecessary, but someone asked me what was so maligned about Sunshine, so I decided to put this together since there's still people out there seriously wondering why so many people shit on the thing.

    Avatar image for the_nubster
    The_Nubster

    5058

    Forum Posts

    21

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 3

    User Lists: 1

    Well-written! I'm on board with a lot of your points and I admittedly have a ton of nostalgia for it, but I do think that FLUDD is one of the cooler things about the game. Mario's maneuverability is off the charts; FLUDD sucks on its own but when combined with the super-sensitive controls you can pull off some pretty amazing moves and break some levels wide open.

    Avatar image for frostyryan
    FrostyRyan

    2936

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @neurogia said:

    If you wanna talk about a Mario game that reuses the same boring mechanics for every world, has terrible pacing, and reuses bossfights then go and play Mario Odyssey, then come back and talk to me.

    Since Odyssey's release, Super Mario Sunshine now comfortably rests in the "good" pile of Mario games in the last 30 years.

    what, now mario odyssey sucks??

    You people are monsters

    Avatar image for humanity
    Humanity

    21858

    Forum Posts

    5738

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 40

    User Lists: 16

    Avatar image for acidbrandon18
    AcidBrandon18

    1382

    Forum Posts

    1

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    @neurogia: Wait, what is wrong with Odyssey? It's is one of the best Mario games!

    This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.