Any PC gamers out there who are keyboard elitists switch to a controller for W3?

I did.

I never though I'd say it, but this game feels great on a controller... I feel dirty now.

I did. I am 90 percent of the time a mouse and keyboard guy, but this game looked like a controller game.

Also I have nothing against controllers I just vastly prefer keyboard and mouse for the increased fidelity. Depending on the game of course.

I am not an "elitist", but in this particular game keyboard and mouse works fine. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I like it with a controller.

Whenever you have to aim a firearm in a 3-dimensional space, keyboard and mouse are superior. For games like the Witcher, controller can work just as well or better. Right tool for the right job.

Yeah I started using a controller for W3. Some games you can feel like they would just be easier to control without a K&M. Some games are damn near impossible to play with a K&M. Like for example Psychonauts, that game plays like ass without a controller.

@draugen said:

Whenever you have to aim a firearm in a 3-dimensional space, keyboard and mouse are superior.

The only games I still use M&K for are person shooters and RTS games. I find that the momentum based turning of an analogue stick is better for player movement, but the location-based accuracy of a mouse makes shooters less frustrating.

This seems like an either or case. Both control methods seem fine from what I've heard. Personally using K+M myself.

I understand that pain. The meat level was even more atrocious.

Mice and keyboards are better at almost anything. They're more logical.

Controllers only have two buttons good for 3D games, if you really think about it. With the PS3, it's R1 and L1 and with the Xbox 360 it's the triggers. The bumpers on the 360 are too shallow and thin for important actions, and R2 and L2 on the PS3 are too deep. Most devs today don't assign crucial actions to the face buttons because your thumbs are already controlling the camera. A mouse has three buttons and you can also do alternate actions with the scroll wheel. I like that in Chivarly you can thrust by rolling up and swing downward by rolling down. Also, most modern mice have thumb buttons. You have all those options and you never have to leave the camera control.

There are more buttons near WASD than on a controller, many in immediate reach, so you don’t have to cycle through menus and items so much. So many buttons. Many of them don’t require your three middle fingers. And at least when you have to leave WASD, you can still have two fingers there, unlike on a control stick. It’s ridiculous that after all these generations controllers still only utilize the thumbs and index fingers. At least the Steam controller has those back buttons.

I won't get into aiming, since you kind of touched on that.

Arkham CIty is a good example of how a controller can make a game more complicated. It’s pretty annoying how many actions are tied to the same buttons. I want to use an item but instead the character deploys my only smoke grenade. I want to place a bomb on someone, but instead Robin tries to take him out, teaching me the hard way that I have to hold it while approaching. Sometimes I accidentally perform a counter instead of readying an item, or vise versa. I really think item deployment should be separate from the counter/stealth attack button. I also don’t like how the characters automatically climb stuff when running or how you have to let go of the run button and then tap it to evade. Or how sometimes you try to go underneath a floor grate and instead he attaches to a wall or railing. I think the devs should have provided more options for mice and keyboards, since there are more buttons.

Games are dumbed down and streamlined for controllers. I've been writing my own idea of a game, for my amusement. I struggled trying to conceptualize the gameplay around a controller. When I finally gave in and rewrote it for a keyboard and mouse only, the controls became simpler, snappier, more logical and more versatile. That's partly what made me realize how inefficient controllers are.

I felt like I should have liked the keyboard controls better, but I'm playing with a PS4 controller and having a much better time.

I play with the keyboard and mouse, but thinking on it, I can see how an analogue stick would make moving significantly easier, since here are a lot of times when Geralt doesn't move how I want him to (ESPECIALLY UNDERWATER).

@ezekiel: I can't imagine playing the Arkham games with a KBM. I never had any issues with more than one action per button.

Dude it's awesome!

@alistercat:
That's how I felt.
I loved KMB in Witcher 2, so I immediately mapped the controls the same way I had them before.
After about 2 hours I said, "Screw it," and plugged in my X1 controller.

Honestly I have almost completely converted into controllers, if a game has the option to use one I will.

It's pretty rare that I go KB+M on a multi-platform release these days, simply because they're almost always designed primarily with a console audience in mind, so that's what tends to work better.

@ezekiel: Controllers were made for the sole purpose of playing games; keyboard and mouse had to force game controls into something that didn't really suit it. You can certainly make the argument that KB/M is infinitely more useful for games where you need fine control or a lot of buttons, but there are plenty of games that simply don't need so many options at one's disposal. Plus, KB control has one major problem: a lack of analog control. This makes it better for a huge number of genres--platformers, racing games, stealth-based games--that is easily equal to those genres that benefit from a KB/M control scheme.

In other words, there will always be games that work better with one or the other, yet most of them could manage on the other with enough smart design. In the end, it comes down to personal preference (which for many people nowadays in the huge console market is a controller) and the intentions of the developer.

This is entirely my stance on the M&K vs controller debate.

The only games better with a keyboard and mouse are FPS and RTS. (Almost, I'm sure I'm forgetting something) Everything else is better on a controller.

"keyboard and mouse had to force game controls into something that didn't really suit it"

How is that different from a controller? How do you know a PS4 or X1 controller is ideal for what a developer wants? Might the best answer for them not be a controller that doesn't exist, since almost every game is unique? Developers have to work with what's available. Keyboards and mice can suit most games just fine.

I'm not gonna refute the benefits of analog sticks, but WASD has benefits too. The fact that you control the character with three rested fingers instead of a thumb means the desired actions can be performed faster. The user doesn't have to deal with the variables of analog and they always know if they're moving exactly straight, unlike with the rounded rim of a stick. Have you ever watched someone unfamiliar with games try to use sticks? It's a painful sight. It's because thumbs aren't very dexterous. Most games don't require more than eight directions anyway. Often, moving the camera a bit is enough.

Which is unfortunate, in my opinion. I'm hoping the big three try to revolutionize the controllers in the next generation.

Third person games are much better on controller generally, for GTA 5 I use both controller and keyboard n mouse depending on what I am doing. This is why I like having options!

Have you ever seen a person try and use WASD for the first time? It's way worse. That is not an intuitive system.

Totally did the opposite. When it comes to third person action games a controller seems like the obvious choice. I decided to try out KB+M for Witcher 3 though and found it to be just as good as playing the Witcher 2 with a controller - maybe even a little bit better since I like using the mouse when going through the menus. The slow and deliberate pace of the combat probably allows for KB+M controls to be more than sufficient.

@ezekiel: Controllers may be standard across all games and not per developer, but developers rarely do anything different with KB/M either. You'll find that most games in the same genre use the exact same keys, even if better ones may exist. At the very least, controllers have evolved somewhat to suit games as they have changed and modernized--analog, triggers, etc.--while keyboards and mice are practically identical to their original iterations (barring minor improvements like more buttons or updates that have little-to-no impact on games). The benefit is just a lot of potential buttons for any possible combination in the hands of a smart developer, of which very few even bother to change things up.

Using a keyboard, you are trading finesse for speed. This is great for some games (such as FPS, where you can easily strafe back and forth with WASD), but poor for others. As you noted, both systems have their inherent benefits; however, I might argue that not having the fine movement (analog) is a far worse trade-off than not having the speed/dexterity (KB/M).

I absolutely agree that controllers could use a revamp in the next generation. There is plenty that could be done to make them better suited for other kinds of experiences. In the end, I still prefer a controller for most games simply because it is more comfortable in my hands, something that is crucially important for a hobby I spend so much time with. I would love to see controllers continue to grow and evolve while retaining that ergonomic value that makes them my preferred chioce.

I used a controller but I have an issue with it - since the "run" button is A you can't swim fast, run or gallop and still have control over the camera. I'll install a mod for it for the second playthrough.

I played through it with M&K and then played on a friends PS4 for a while. Still hating how you can't control the camera while using the face buttons. Controllers suck, especially in this game since locking on actually makes combat against multiple foes harder. I never even thought about locking on with the mouse.

@loafsmooch: Why did you lock on with the controller then? Just curious. The only time I locked on in TW3 is when I wanted to use the alternate version of Igni.

Nope!
My hands are still clean!

@qrdl: Because I feel controlling the camera in combat while being able to dodge/roll is an important feature. It's just too clunky for me.

I stayed on keyboard but I did remap some of the buttons, swapping dodge for roll and moving the heavy attach button onto my mouse.

I can't imagine how clunky the menus would be without the mouse.

I liked keybinds too much to switch, needed that instant spell switching.

Usually I play 3rd person action games (Shadow of Mordor, Batman, Wichter etc.) with a controller, just like it more for those games.

I ended up using a weird combination of both. It's a nice touch that it allows you to do that so seamlessly.

Not having complete control of the camera 100% of the time or having to pause mid combo, to switch signs, makes the controller objectively worse.

The Arkham games, I would definitely agree to a controller arguement. I think with the Witcher, people just automatically assumed 3rd person equals controller and are now just oblivious to the gaping flaws.

@gruff182: The gaping flaws of what feels better for them?

I was a huge kb+m buff back in my PC days but after I switched over to consoles a few years ago I find that using WASD for extended periods of time cramps my hand up. It's probably just a matter of getting used to it as the PS4 controller likewise was making my hands cramp up when I initially purchased that console. I still prefer the 360 controller because ergonomically it contours to my hands a lot better, while the PS4 pad seems a little small, but it's not a huge deal.

In the Witcher I use a pad and I'm playing on PC but it's one of the few games where I miss the ability to quickly switch signs, which is viable on the keyboard. It's an easy fix though. CDPR could offer a modified control scheme where you can map 4 of the signs to the d-pad. Having a dedicated button for sheathing swords seems a little pointless and it could still be there as a long-press. The only thing you miss out is potions but you can just map one dedicated potion to Y/triangle since I don't recall that button actually doing anything in combat.

I played half of the game with the KB+M so I can't say I dont have the experience. Well as far as it goes, the controls are decent to say. I mean I had to rebind some keys, but I expected the layout to be better overall. Seems they choose not to keep the right click for heavy attacks and so. Anyways, you can pretty much rebind everything so yeah.

On the controller however the controls were somehow better mainly because of the layout. Nevertheless I can't say this is much of a problem because again you can rebind the keys. Anyways it's just a matter of preference after all. I will stick with the controller because I just got it, and I was eager to see how games are played with one. Well except for fps games or strategy games.

Opposite for me. The lack of walk/run toggle made me switch from a controller to a keyboard+mouse. No complaints.

I've got a 360 controller for games like this, absolutely no problem with it. The best part about PC is having the choice so w/e.

@humanity: Y is strong attack.

I agree that an alternative control scheme with signs on the D-Pad would be preferable. You could maybe leave the most used one under RT/R2 and move the potions to the radial menu since you use them less often than the signs. What we need is a new controller with buttons on the underside or better yet - an analogue solution for the left hand when using the mouse.

I went back and forth a lot when I first started playing. I never really liked Witcher 2 with a gamepad, but Witcher 3 is really good with one. I ultimately decided to go with Keyboard + Mouse, but I don't think you're missing out either way (especially on pc, where you can switch at will for inventory and quicksaving). My only real complaint is that certain actions are tied together (like Witcher sense and parry) and can only be rebound to the same key. Not being able to figure out a workable scheme using RMB for strong attack (like in The Witcher 2) almost drove me entirely to the gamepad camp until I got used to it.

The comfort goes both ways. I find keyboards and mice comfortable because my hands are rested. I don't have to carry something or curl my hands for extensive periods of time. Comfort and practicality is probably the reason (musical) keyboards have remained like this for hundreds of years.

Controllers have barely evolved since 1997. They still have the same problems (which I explained in my first post) from back then. Mice and keyboards are still more versatile and logical than controllers, so I have less of a problem with their old design.

Same here. Analogue controls in action games (like AC, Batman, etc.) is IMO simply superior. M+K in anything with a gun, RTS or MMO, but otherwise I prefer controllers these days. Bonus points to games that change controls on the fly so I can use M+K for menu navigation.

It's a third person action RPG.

Rule of thumb: first person, mouse and keyboard *for the most part.* Third person, controller.

Games like Skyrim and other firstperson-and-also-afterthought-thirdperson-mode-but-mainly-firstperson games are a bit of a tossup. but for me, third person usually almost always works better with a controller. A big reason is because in first person there is no character animation to look at and so the forward-left-down-right keyboard controls don't look as weird. The Assassins Creed games, Arkham games, rockstar games, even games like the recent Splinter Cell. They're all designed and look and feel way better with analogue sticks.

The "always mouse and keyboard with every game, ever!" people are just naive loonies imo. Yes, CD Projekt Red is a developer with a big PC audience because of their history, yes the Witcher 3 can be played with mouse and keyboard just fine. But the game clearly feels like a controller game to me. And that's totally fine. Even Witcher 2 felt more controller focused.

I'm playing through Wild Hunt with an Xbox One controller and loving it.

@qrdl: oh yah I knew I was forgetting about something! Man I was so excited before the PS4 and XB1 were announced that we would get some serious innovation with the controller and it was such a bummer when it was revealed that those pads were basically identical to the old ones. Adding two more buttons would help a lot as games are getting more complicated on console.

:

Yeah, but isn't that a completely different discussion? Controllers will always be ergonomically better than a keyboard and I could sit here and explain how I have complete comfort with my chair and posture, but thats irrelevent. We're not really talking about comfort, I can comfortably use both. We're talking about controlling the Witcher specifically. I'm personally playing a griffin/sign build and even if I wasn't, having to pause in fights to re-apply quen, place a trap or knock enemies down is an objectively worse experience.

I'm not even an anti-controller PC gamer, I just think people assume 3rd person = controller is better, without even thinking about it. Arkham is out next week and i'm going to use a pad for sure, I could assign a key for 'smoke bomb' but double tapping a button or using a shoulder button as a modifier is too perfect.

If someone doesn't enjoy or isn't very good at using a kb/m thats fine, but I think CDPR could have done better with the pad mappings. Having to toggle walking, for the talking/walking bits, is super shitty. Other than that, theres just a bunch a little nuances that make kb/m objectively better, . Theres not many platforming sections in this game.

@gruff182: Well the thing is that apart from the signs, for me the controller is "objectively" better in every other way. It's not the type of game that requires me to aim accurately or anything and I prefer analogue movement than WASD. I don't want to be that guy that says "well like, everything is totally subjective maaaann.." but it kinda is in a way.

Still playing on mouse and keyboard and having the experience that I want. The controller will never provide it for me in its current form.

It really is! Why is it that I only ever see people who have a strong preference for the KBM go "it's objectively better!" and then give some reasons why?

I tried to play The Witcher 2 and 3 with a KBM. I could see The Witcher 2 - movement is way more digital in that game and stopping takes no time - but The Witcher 3 feels more like they were going for realistic movement like a Rockstar game and controlling that with a KBM felt totally alien to me. Yeah, I could be switching to signs instantly, but there was a thread recently about weapon wheels where I posted about how pushing 1-0 to select weapons or spells is something that never clicked with me, after years of KBM gaming, so I'm going to stick to the weapon wheel (which I'm more comfortable with).

It really is all preference.