Elizabeth Is a Shark: Ken Levine on BioShock Infinite

Everyone thinks it's everyone else that's turning the comments into an ugly scene. But, nah, it's just the snake eating its own tail again.

Whether you're a righteous Patrick Defender or an obstinate Patrick Defier, at this point neither "group" can pretend they aren't completely annoying. A message for all of you: "we know." The same points have been re-iterated over and over by everyone so much and so often that all context has been lost, and we see the same messages over and over regardless of the situation or even what's happened in the respective content. At this rate we'll be seeing this same fight even in non-Patrick videos (actually, wait, that has already been happening).

Just need to calm your respective prides and cool it. Patrick's an adult who can handle Internet jabs, and also he's not going anywhere. My advice to his fans is to continue voicing their support -- and to only voice their support. Elbowing the guy next to you doesn't help anyone, even if he is acting like a jerk. You're just bringing yourself down to the same level. And my advice to his not-fans is to practice a slight bit of restraint, because coating everything in perpetual snark, no matter how "funny", makes it impossible to be taken as genuine criticism. Some folks already make great, respectable critiques of Patrick that he'd probably benefit from... but, unfortunately it gets lost in all the vitriol instead.

As will this post. But, hey. Here we are.

I'll just do my part by never speaking of this again.

ANYWAY, HEY GUYS, I THOUGHT THE INTERVIEW WAS RAD.

Jeff, Patrick & Ken conducted a fantastic interview and discussion without spoiling anything about Bioshock: Infinite. Ken is one of very very few video game story auteurs. I really hope he is not the last of a dying breed. We don't want microtransactions or multiplayer Bioshocks. We want storytellers like Ken to tell his story unwavered and untouched by corporate pressure.

Bring on Infinite.

Thanks! I really like the talk about video games as a medium. Would love to see more stuff like this from you guys.

Fantastic interview. I'd love to see more of these type of interviews but there aren't a lot of Ken Levines out there.

Oh the Giantest of Bombs, how I love thee.

Exactly my thoughts. I think Jeff is really well respected by developers, because he's beeen around and seen how the gaming landscape has changed over time. And he's just such a fucking cool guy, that people actually want to spend time with him. They're not just there because they have to, but because they want to. Says a lot that a relatively small site like Giant Bomb can sit down for almost a full hour with Ken Levine.

You couldn't have said it more perfectly. I think Ryan is also very well respected by developers. Jeff & Ryan have brought in some amazing developers over the years. Their interviews are always more personal than others. I think you're absolutely right that their long experience in the industry has made more personal connections with developers.

I won't ever forget the first and more recent SWERY visits. The connection with Double Fine is always entertaining. <CAT MUIR>

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Ken Levine is one of the few developers that I just trust to come through and make a game that's an unforgettable experience. As with his previous games, it's the atmosphere and story that make the games unique & different. I think very few people can create an unforgettable and unpredictable story like he can. The beautiful thing is Irrational can make a video game experience that works with the narrative.

I preordered the game for PC, and I barely preorder. Last one was Skyrim for example. All I really hope for is a new, unique & unpredictable experience out of the game. Give me a story I won't forget.

TOO LONG: DON'T READ -WARNING- CONTAINS BITCHING!

I think Ken Levine is a hack as far as writing goes and so sloppy with his treatment of history and the philosophy and view point he seeks to critique that hearing him try to pass himself off as having some deep yet dismissive professorial understanding of the subject matter is hilarious. He tries to tie Objectivism to the supposedly merciless industrialist culture of the 30's (presumably because Objectivists tend to be anti-new deal) when the Fountainhead was published in '43 and Atlas Shrugged was published in 1957 and it came from a former Russian screen writer who was married to Frank O'Conner (No, not the Halo guy!) and who moved to the US in 1926 at the age of 21. She was an immigrant who left the Soviet Union in its early days. Worse he tries to portray people who are influenced by Objectivism as zealous puritan devotees to it. Also he seems to see her as some lunatic when she left the Soviet Union because she observed a lot of the "ridiculous things" in her book happening first hand. She had a pretty good reason to have a stick up her butt about social welfare politics, demagoguery, and collectivism even if she was never beaten or tossed into a gulag herself. So no, I would not embrace her philosophy but I would not try to paint her as a wicked and entirely amoral proponent of Big daddies and adam-leaching children and such either.

Paul Ryan (former husband of Jeri Ryan) is an Objectivist? Heh. In what sense? TARP was objectivist firendly legislation? That's a bit hard to believe given his actual voting record, cooperation with Romney ( who was a classic North Eastern Rockefeller Republican and proud of it before the primaries), distaste for the Libertarian wing of the Republican party, and close association with Boehenr. Oh well. Personally I have little use for big L libertarians and Objectvisim but I have yet to see anyone make a serious stab at doing it justice. Ken Levine like most hacks with a dull political axe to grind simply adds dystopian hobgoblins and scary music to his Galt's Gulch stand in and then pawns it off as a valid model of Objectivism. Horrific surgery and mutations? Sure. Mind control? No problem. Social Darwinism? Why heaps of it! Sort of. Whatevs. They weren't in Galt's Gulch, but they should have been right? So this new version is the REAL tale of Atlas Shrugged Right? Because in reality (the real fiction about this fiction's philosophy) Reardon left society because they wouldn't let him hire a bunch of scientists cut on 'little people' to turn them into deranged cyborg mutant animal hybrids with super powers. Right? I mean he WAS a metallurgist and foundry man after all. Bleah. Bioshock shows no signs of anyone having got past reading a few unhappy reviews of Atlas Shrugged, a Huffington Post blog article about the topic, and perhaps the \Cliff's Notes. The design of the visuals is brilliant. The writing is not. No, not even by the low bar of video game writing. Why not have an analog to Dracula professing a love for Reagan's tax cuts and Nuclear war before eating a baby? It's about as sloppy as Bioshock's take on Atlas Shrugged..

Lest you misunderstand, I don't mind the subversion at all. Atlas Shrugged is a long, boring, and silly book for the most part with long winded, pompous speeches that mark Ayn Rand out as a bit of a self impressed hack herself. But I do mind the grotesque/hatchet job being passed off as deep thoughtful, and relevant and a serious treatment of Objectivism that is useful to people who wish to know more about it. If you came to spit on the wall then admit it.

Dog whistle theory is interesting if a bit of a shell game. It comes from the Australian press reacting to John Howard and as near as I can tell is inconsistently employed now to make something SOUND racist or xenophobic by supposedly "decoding" it which is to say "replacing it" with a more explicitly offensive phrase. And if you listen to Chris Matthews or Maureen Dowd, why they can find dog whistles in what people didn't say at all. They say that taxes are too high and you claim that the dog whistle that prospective voters here is "let the poor die". They say that "we need to close the border and enforce immigration laws" and you say that the prospective voter hears " I hate all brown skinned people because I am a white supremacist and I hate Spanish and wish everybody was blonde and had posh English ancestors and I don't like legal immigration either and I probably want to bring back slavery and report directly to the KKK before thinking." and if you believe that kind of thing about republican voters anyway then the cartoon sticks and the con game works. It lets you put words directly into an opponent's mouth that harm their reputation and it's all because of your amazing dog whistle science that is constantly mutating to keep the evil messages coming when said opponents are talking about ANYTHING AT ALL.

Anyway I'm not sure I want to pay 60 to hear the usual MSNBC rant from a guy trying to tie Know Nothings and the pre WW1 unrest (only with balloon cities and steam punk) to illegal immigration. It's just too cheap and gross and I saw how sloppy Bioshock was about its subject matter. Im in it for the flying city and weird powers, not the tacky, preachy, shrill hack political satire through careless alt history sci-fi that I fear BS:Infinite will be. This sounds almost as bad as when Mel Gibson made "The Hills have Eyes: Slightly Pre Columbian Maya Edition", called it "Apacalypto", and claimed that it was really about Bush invading Iraq or something. Not that I'm accusing Ken Levine of blaming Judaism for war and calling a sheriff's deputy sugar tits while drunk. That's all on Mel, as is that crappy beaver puppet movie he made with Jodie Foster as his attempt at penance for all that before leaving threatening messages on his ex-girlfriend's machine. But just the same, I am not at all impressed with Bioshock as a serious examination of anything, nor as some useful, thoughfully designed lens that reveals anything but Mr. Levine's careless and casual antipathy for republican voters and messaging. So I hope all the powers and guns are good stuff at least.

I love Patrick, I think he's great! But with the goatee, he looks like evil doppleganger Patrick. And I like evil Patrick too!

Wow dude, you should teach Bioshock 101 at a University

Jesus guys, it's a website about video games. I'm seriously questioning what people have going on in their lives that they get so worked up having a fight on whether Patrick is a good addition to this site or not. Get the fuck over it, if you don't like him, get over it, if you like him and don't like the fact that people don't like him, get over it. Stop polluting everything you touch into this mindless vitriol. Shut the fuck up and enjoy the content.

Ken Levine is the Chuck Norris of the gaming industry.

So does this game jump Elizabeth?

@palaeomerus: I totally get your point-of-view and agree based on what was in Bioshock. This pandering wasn't a part of System Shock or its sequel so I wonder when and why Levine thought it was necessary to start inserting his insipid political commentary into the plots of his games. If this is the future - instead of mutants, you're killing off packs of mormons and MRAs - count me out.

@superkenon: You're right, but if what you call the 'Patrick Defenders' stopped bashing everyone, there would be no problem. The complaints aren't going to go away because they get butthurt.

Great interview. And I'd just like to say, thanks for not putting content like this behind the pay-wall.

And then there is the point where continental Europeans like me are just feeling cultural disconnect with every thing Bioshock as the supposedly creative steampunk vintage visuals are standard fare for us (Jules Verne anyone?) and Libertarianism and a deeply rooted mistrust towards government and the state (that goes so far that people actively oppose government regulated health care) is simply just not a thing over here

@sarx said:

I disagree, I live in England and I see alot of distrust and hostility towards our Government. So much so that it is relatively difficult to find a sympathiser for the leading political party.

great interview. thanks Jeff and Patrick, and especially Ken Levine :]

Jeff is forever.

@jeffWhy are these always 2x1? Just curious.

Don't diss Sway.

What the heck was the brand of soda he was drinking?

Recommend the interview Ken did with Kevin VanOrd on Gamespot, fascinating discussion.

The headline would make more sense if it said, "Elizabeth is the shark."

Goatee Patrick is adorable. He looks like a 12 year old who shaved a poodle and glued some to his face.

Which article is Ken referring to around the 13:40 mark?

Very interesting interview. Ken Levine is really awesome to listen to, just great to see just him discuss stuff. There's clearly an artistic integrity to how he seems to approach his work, but he doesn't seem at all up his own ass about it. I find that sometimes the guys the gaming industry that are attempting to touch on some interesting thematic elements that others aren't, can come off as overbearing or as preachy. Which can really be a turn off, even for someone who probably feels the same way about those subjects.

Also, I've been in the same boat with Jeff. I've gone dark on this game since that E3 gameplay trailer. I've know that I was going to play this game since watching that thing.

Patrick makes one bang on comment - "Girls" is absolutely the most over-analysed show on television. Possibly in the history of television.

I wonder if Lena Dunham laughs her ass off at all of the pages wasted, discussing what her show is "really" about.

@palaeomerus: I don't get your argument. You're saying you can't impose Ayn Rand's beliefs on what they would have been in the 20s and 30s because she didn't have those ideas yet? Her tenets are her tenets regardless of time period. It's safe to say she wouldn't be happy with the US government today but she's not around to say so but libertarians / much of the now US conservative party have no problem espousing her ideas in the modern world. Soviet Union's downfall was not it's collectivism nor "social welfare" programs, nor was it a republic. I don't think you will find many liberals clamoring for a dictatorship. Look at how well socialism is working in Europe and Canada. They're leaps and bounds ahead of where the US, Asia, South America are in terms of life quality. That can't be argued. Unless your argument is that being taxed more can be equated to QoL. Then you result to straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks because he's making a commentary in a fantasy world about objectivism, and go intro diatribe about Mel Gibson. Seek help.

I'm in!!! I can do the web development

That was a fairly inspiring chat to listen to. The bit about letting the narrative go it's own way, I'm assuming rather than wrestling it to the ground and insisting it must do this or that, or rather than writing what you think it should be in spite of what the narrative seems to be suggesting, was encouraging.

Also, and this has no doubt been noticed for years but I only now just noticed, Levine sounds just like Garrus. At the very least he could probably do an amazing impression of him.

Great interview! I always enjoy Ken Levine's interviews because he says it how it is.

@npfeifer: yup

Bombcrew, I really liked most of this interview and I really enjoyed the laid back vibe it had. Some good questions were answered and it was overall a good interview.

That said, I do think you still have some stuff to learn about interviews. Mostly, whenever Ken seeks for words to try and explain himself and takes a short pause while doing so, you tend to interrupt his thought process and answer the question for him. This is extremely common, everyone does this in regular conversation. Nevertheless, it´s much better to just let him think and say what's on his mind. It's better in conversation but it also makes for a better interview. It's just like being on a date; a short pause of words is not a bad thing at all, forcing words can actually make it less great.

It was a neat interview though. Just some room for improvement. Looking forward to the next interview.

What? Many people don't trust the government and are hostile towards them, especially in the history of various European countries.

@sooty: There is a difference in having no trust in the government / thinking all politicians as bumbling fools and seeing the state as a hostile entity whose influence you have to contain and defend against - with guns if need be. And not by some guys with tinfoil hats or anarchists but as a genuine cultural thing rooted in a peculiar definition of personal freedom.This is something I have only experienced in the US.

@roycampbell: well at least he didnt desperately grasp at an attempt at humor by calling him asshole,

my guess is Jeff slipped some adderall into his kool-laid.. He's defintely was much less cringe worthy.

" All games start out as SHit... amright? huh yah...."

ok scratch that

Ken Levine is one of my favorite people. Excellent interview guys, thanks for this.

Really glad that people like Ken Levine exist, makes you a lot more hopeful for the future of games. Especially for people like me, for whom a mediocre story/storytelling often is a complete turnoff.

I really like listening to Ken. He is a very soft spoken intelligent man to listen to.

Really enjoyed the segment, it really hammers home how I fell about your game coverage and how true you guys are. Please keep up the good work and you guys deserve all the good things that come your way!

Yet another piece of content that Klepek makes hard to get through. Thank god Jeff was there. Ken Levine is awesome.

At least he didn't call Ken an asshole like he did to Nolan North.

Yeah, or not...

@danishmaggot: Ken Lavine's discussion mannerisms reminds me very much of John Carmack. Maybe a slightly easier methodology to understand in laymens terms, but still pretty interesting concepts and speech patterns throughout.

MGS2 E3 2000 demo

Plane. Scape.

not

Plan. Escape.

Plan: Escape to Rment

what if I get hit by a car hahahahahahahhaha omg hahaha