@mike: Thanks for the explanation!

I really hope Windows 10 and Xbox One games become 100% cross compatible, in that I can buy a game on Xbox One and play it on my PC as well with saved games and all. I'm finally updating my GPU this year anyhow, so I could get on board with a cycle where I buy a new Xbox every 2-4 years and keep updating my PC in the meanwhile.

So the PS4 and Xbox One are getting iterative upgrades, the old console cycles are .. broken?

I'm so glad to be unsubscribing from it all, this is not what I signed up for with console gaming. Nope.

@ballskin: You know with all this madness Sony and Microsoft are pulling , buying a $600 video card every 3-5 years doesn't sound that crazy anymore...

Neither console has enough of a library (for my taste) to warrant such iteration. I'm hoping this "smartphone" model crashes and burns. The software will simply never catch up and we'll have another 3 years of Chinese-ported garbage.

@humanity said:

As a PS4 owner this is good news for me since I get to buy a powerful new XB1, even get oculus support and begin purchasing all the multiplatform titles there. Everyone wins.

This is exactly my thinking. Why spend all the money for a Neo and a Morpheus this year, when I could get access to a second platform's exclusives if I wait a bit and get a Scorpion and an Oculus next year? Plus the Oculus could be used for PC games in addition to XB1 games, while the Morpheus would only work with PlayStation 4/Neo games. Microsoft might win me back yet.

I don't see where people are getting that this is gonna be yearly. I think Sony and Microsoft know that's pretty crazy. I'm betting on three years between iterations with the previous console being supported by first party for around 6 years. That seems totally reasonable to me. If it were to go yearly I think we might actually see the end of consoles which is actually super frightening.

If Halo comes to PC it's bye bye Xbox for me. The last thing keeping me on that platform. Ill be building a new PC later this year. If consoles are going to become incremental, why not stick with PC.

All things considered you're absolutely right. The rat race of keeping my PC good enough to play the newest games while dodging the driver and manufacturer bias minefield has kept me from PC gaming or a long time but man, but if these consoles are going to be coming out every 2 years then I rather just spend that money on PC instead. Especially now that exclusives are so far and few in between.

@isomeri: i think AAA third party publishers will not let you cross buy, cross save sure, cross play maybe, but crossuy no, an exemple is the cross buy on ps4/psvita ff10 hd was on both on the same day but no cross buy.

The only way cross buy could work if you pay 90$ to get both version, publishers are all bout the $

If nothing else, such a model would make the Steambox a much more viable competitor.

In the short term, I can see how this could help Microsoft, as they are currently behind in both sales and tech. Putting so much of their energy into a 24-hour online Kinect mandatory system that they had to immediately backtrack on didn't do them any favors. Except who's going to jump on it? Loyal Xbox fans probably already bought a console. On the fence gamers are going to weary of buying a console if it'll just be upgraded in a couple years, plus Microsoft doesn't really have that many system sellers. There might be a boost, but it'll be a small one.

Plus Sony is apparently going to combat this thing with an upgraded model as well. If so, people who own PS4s might ask themselves if they'd rather buy a new Xbox to have both systems, or use the same money to buy an upgraded PS4, which has an ecosystem they're already invested in. Then again, a great many people could just use that money on anything else. It's not like consoles only compete with themselves when it comes to disposable income.

Honestly, this whole thing is going to be fascinating. As a PC gamer who is fairly patient with his console purchases, this could work out fantastic for me.

3-5 years? That is super generous. More like 2-3 years if you want games to feel better than what console offers. If you are fine with medium- low i could see 4-5 years.

I hope this is the case for the ps4 as well, I want a new console in 2017, that way I'll buy a PlayStation vr. However if I have to buy both this year I'll just not bother with either and just move exclusively to pc.

@jesushammer: They know it would be crazy but they'll do it anyway. Partially, like Austin said, a lot of people get new phones every year. I will say that that is partially to do with the fact the cell providers here in the US (Speaking from my view point in the US, don't want to presume how other parts of the world handle cellular service), many people get subsidies from carriers to get new phones as an incentive to stay on with your current provider. There's a large part of this that we are missing on the business model side of this thing. We don't know how these companies are going to justify the system to users because they haven't said a word yet. We just know what they are likely to do, but we don't know how they are going to do it or entice people to do the upgrades. I have to imagine that they will both offer a route for current users to get these system's at a lower cost. Really interesting to see how they handle this.

Combined with the Microsoft's idea of releasing pretty much all of their games on PC as well I still fail to see a good reason to get an Xbox One from now on. It seems like that will be the thing you get if you don't want or can't get a PC with decent gaming capabilities.

This news comes 4 days after the 3rd anniversary of the Xbone Reveal.

Memories...

@austin_walker said:

I don't particularly care about a more powerful Xbox or a change to their release cycle. Microsoft's move towards increased connectivity between the Xbox and PC, however, is very intriguing.

If I want to play with my friends I'm playing on Xbox. That's the primary reason I own the machine. If I could play The Division, for example, on my PC with my friends who were playing on their Xboxes that would be fantastic. For me, anyway. Not so much for Microsoft because if that ever becomes a reality I'm not sure why I'd ever buy another console again. I'd much rather put that money towards PC upgrades, or not spend it at all.

I'm interested in the Neo, but outside of a handful of games (Sunset Overdrive, Tomb Raider, Horizon 2, and Halo 5 multiplayer (campaign sucked)) I just haven't had much of a reason to turn on the big old box. If cross-platform third party multiplayer happens, then I would have even less of a reason. The PS4 is just the 'it' console for me this gen, like the 360 was last time.

I don't see why then will release a slim, that will be outdated in less than a year tops; maybe it's cheaper to make? But unless the slim is stupid cheap, like $200, I don't see it being that appealing. Especially, since it seems Sony forced MS hand about having to announce the Xbox One.5 a year in advance.

It is complete overkill, but as of right now I think I'd get a Neo and a new pascal GPU card, sometime this year.

The day console gaming died.

@wallee321 An Xbox Slim will probably be stupid cheap.

You know what, I'm not so sure.

When this generation was about announced in Jan/Feb 2014 there was talk about what Microsoft had planned and that Sony might be going the same way. Then Microsoft made it announcement before e3 up in Seattle and people FREAKED. Moreover, people were convinced that Sony would do that same. People were convinced that games woudl be looked to one console, that they would have no reseal value, and that your ownership in name and inj fact was GONE. That was the talk just before e3, that Sony was going to do nearly the same thing .

And, Sony didn't go that way. Sony stood on stage, they looked at us and said, "No way, that is stupid, right?" And Microsoft HAD TO shame-walk everything back and Don Mattrick had to leave. (Oh, they pretend that Mattrick was 'moving on' to other things, but he was taking the only train out of town in teh darkness of night, because his tenure at Microsoft was OVER.

So....this might not be the way things go for consoles going forward. Oh, Sony is doing Neo but they are very likely to even more strictly tighten the restrictions of developers NOT to use the small amount of power in any way that isn't just to make the games look "okay" on 4K. And, if Microsoft does do any of this nonsense in 2017- they will get STOMPED. I don't think this is over all all, in fact, I think Sony might even start walking Neo backward so that there is NO CONFUSION about what it does and doesn't do.

It might be just a feeling, but I think Sony can see just as clearly that what Microsoft in proposing demonstrates Seattle has NO FUCKING CLUE how the console game industry works. In fact, I can hardly believe it myself, but I think it could be that Microsoft just handed Sony the ammunition to totally blow Microsoft out.

No I don't think this is our new reality at all.

....

Andrew House: You guessed wrong.

Phil Spencer : You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against The House Gate's Built when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha... [ stops suddenly, falls to the ground dead]

Andrew House They were both poisoned. We spent the last few years building up an immunity to your company's stupid notions of how business works.

Part of me thinks Sony and Microsoft might have taken a gentlemen's handshake to both release new upgraded versions.

Economical, definitely but not necessarily the probable move for most consumers. While I agree with most everything you said there are still a crazy amount of factors out there. The reason a solid chunk of people - not just hardcore gamers, or even the fairly interested consumer, but mainstream purchasers go with a console is because they don't have to mess with it. In more cases than not "it just works" without having to select if you want AA or if you want to turn down shadow quality - they want The Witcher to look like it did in the sizzle reel. So while yeah I agree it's more economical, the point is that there's a huge market that doesn't give a shit - if they see that No Man's Sky is coming out for PC and PS4 - smart money is that they'll pick it up on the PS4 because they saw the logo. There's still a barrier to entry for PC builds these days, and it can seem impenetrable to the person that walks into a Best Buy, throws a PS4, a controller, and Call of Duty into their cart and happily puts the square plug in the square hole and fires it up. Just look at the PC forum here on GB - it's intimidating for the first timer, and god help you if you put a "looking to build a PC" thread up almost anywhere.

While I agree with most everything said there are still a crazy amount of factors out there. The reason a solid chunk of people - not just hardcore gamers, or even the fairly interested consumer, but mainstream purchasers go with a console is because they don't have to mess with it. In more cases than not "it just works" without having to select if you want AA or if you want to turn down shadow quality - they want The Witcher to look like it did in the sizzle reel. So while yeah I agree it's more economical, the point is that there's a huge market that doesn't give a shit - if they see that No Man's Sky is coming out for PC and PS4 - smart money is that they'll pick it up on the PS4 because they saw the logo. There's still a barrier to entry for PC builds these days, and it can seem impenetrable to the person that walks into a Best Buy, throws a PS4, a controller, and Call of Duty into their cart and happily puts the square plug in the square hole and fires it up. Just look at the PC forum here on GB - it's intimidating for the first timer, and god help you if you put a "looking to build a PC" thread up almost anywhere.

The bottom line in my little rant there is that MS and Sony HAVE to do this to stay relevant and be able to allow devs and pubs to make better games - not just prettier but more advanced AI, more stuff going on in the 1's and 0's than is just surface level. The harsh truth is that when these consoles came out they were borderline underpowered - and still struggle to hit 1080/60 - and now tastes and expectations are rising, but they can't sit back and let this generation happen to them. They have to do something and even though it sucks that the model is changing, and people in general will be slow to adapt, there will be plenty of "this is bullshit" posts and stories - things have to change. I don't see them doing the upgrade path or discounts unless it's some sort of game or XBL/PSN concession just because realistically - they don't have to. They can release the new hardware and people will either wait to buy the new thing, or they will pull the trigger on the old thing. The trick is as long as the games work across a few of the iterations (as the iOS examples point out, good luck getting new games on your 3GS). The other side of that is to still be able to play a few games down the road.

I just hope smarter people than I are creating solutions to problems I can't think of yet. Seems like Phil is steering the Xbox/PC ship in the right direction and making some drastic choices - hopefully that all continues and we can enjoy more of, as Vinny puts it, THE GREATEST TIME TO BE PLAYING GAMES.

Honestly, I'm surprised its taken this long. I'm not sure why everyone expects the video game business to be stuck in a 70's/80's business cycle in 2016. Companies have to be thinking years ahead when they build a console. By the time they engineer it, manufacture it, and distribute it to retail everything inside is going to be on the cusp of obsolete, if not already so. And you want it to last 5-6 years beyond launch? Forget it. Technology doesn't work this way in any other sector, so we shouldn't have a special standard just for video game consoles. It's not to say I expect everyone to upgrade immediately. Just like with phones, you don't need to buy every new iteration the moment its released. You can leap frog 2-3 generations every time you get a new one.

Ah yes, the age-old, incredibly ignorant statement from the "superior" PC Master race. Yes, we should all just go "make a PC." So easy! So cheap! No hassle at all! Games totally aren't broken at launch! Games aren't totally filled with hacking and other issues! I won't have to worry about graphics driver issues! I say this as someone who HAS built multiple gaming PCs over the years. I have the time and money to be a PC gamer, but wow does it suck. I'll play consoles as long as they exist, which a few exceptions for games like Heroes of the Storm and others that can't be played on console.

What I find crazy about both the Neo and now the Scorpio is that console sales since the launch of the (let's be honest, pretty seriously under-powered) PS4 and Xbox One showed that console customers are fine with paying money and staying in the console ecosystem even if it means some hand-wringing over game performance.

Jumping out with this new model of iterative upgrades, and all the poor communication and customer confusion that's come along with it, just makes the argument for jumping to PC that much stronger. You can't undo the PR disaster that's been rolling since rumors of an upgraded Xbox One & PS4 first came out and both companies absolutely dropped the ball on messaging exactly what they were actually planning to do.

Oh fuck that noise >_<

I think it may become a situation similar to that of Wii U to Wii, people getting a bit confused to tell the different devices apart. And developers will have heck of a time trying to manage resources in preparation for this new SKU.

@whitegreyblack: I'm not so sure that there is a PR crisis yet. A very small subset of gamers are even aware that these changes are coming and Microsoft and Sony haven't said a word on the issue. I think you need to step back for a second and ask yourself if you and the people around you are representative of the general conciousness when it comes to this stuff. I would bet a majority of America still believes the Xbox One needs to be always connected to the internet. However, if clarity is what you want, wait 3 weeks for E3. I can almost assure you there will be no doubt about this situation on Press Conference day.

@laxbro19: Yeah, good point - I guess the Neo/Scorpio talk has likely not ventured much outside the sphere of enthusiasts. Microsoft and Sony had better get their messaging right at E3 or they'll have a real problem on their hands. I heard people reference the problematic notes of the 2013 Xbox One reveal for years after Microsoft did their abrupt about-face (recently, in fact).

The problem I am talking about is that these tech/game companies rely heavily on their... ugh... "influencers"/"evangelists" these days, and those people ARE in the enthusiast crowd and are already screaming from the rooftops hyperbolic statements about how they'll never buy another console.

@joe_mccallister: What you're saying is partially true but some of it is a little off base. companies like Sony and Microsoft don't have to do trade-ins or things like that, but they should and probably need to. for any company that is succesful and weathers hard times, there is always 1 common theme; they respected the customer and always acted in good faith to the customer. Successful business keep customer satisfaction above all else, even cost, even profit. Because a customer is the sole determination of your success as a business, it's paramount they stay loyal and happy. That's not to say you go out and give away gifts, but you find a sweet spot of making money and keeping people happy. Companies in the 21st century cannot just scheme in the way you think they can. People have more purchasing options and the tools to weigh those options are getting easier to use by the day. The internet is just one example of this. Companies now have to play ball. It isn't an option anymore to be bad to customers. the way you talk about Playstation and Microsoft makes it sound like they're Comcast. People hate Comcast because they are shitty to their customers and are doomed to fail in the long run because of that. I can't think of one person who would shed a tear for Comcast if they went under.

A little hyperbolic but nonetheless I agree. Building PCs and maintaining them was fun back when I had plenty of time to deal with it, now I just consider the process to be a hassle.

@laxbro19 I couldn't agree more. Many people on this site, even the console gamers talking about switching to PC, are delusional if they think that even a fraction of the ~60 million console owners this generation have the money, time, and willpower to actually build a PC.

I have a solid 15-20 friends from college who still game on a regular basis, and I would bet that none of them even fathom the option of sitting down at a desk with a PC to do their gaming as a viable option. Not only would they likely see that as "nerdy," but there's no way in hell they're going to do the research into how to build a decent PC. I'm not saying this to label PC gamers or anything like that, but to bring to light the fact that the majority of console owners are not like the users of this site, and the notion that's often being presented here of "just build a PC" is completely unrealistic for the vast majority of the huge console user base.

Even as someone who does have the know-how to research and build a PC, I have no desire to. Paying $300-400 every three years sounds fine to me. If they were smart they would subsidize the price with paying for a 2-3 year Xbox Live subscription, as many people have stated.

Three years in to these console and I still don't think the games are as impressive as they were at this stage of the last generations console cycle.

It just proves to me that more power doesn't guarantee that the game will be better. All this is to say that maybe the Scorpio and the Neo won't offer anything significantly better than what we've got now.

Still not even near what I've had for quite some time on my PC though, so not even remotely interested.

Invest in some good new IP's instead Microsoft, please. And make a good PC port when you're at it.

I can't see how one of them would have built-in Rift support given that Facebook is trying to take over the software store system. MS makes these consoles so they can get license fees from the games sold. Facebook wants the same thing. Thus it's hard to see how they could find a way to join forces since then they would have to split fees. And even if they decided to split fees, it means losing control over the software store market position. It doesn't make sense.

I hope they name this new one, the Xbox One Too

Well, I can tell you one thing, AMD would have been at the table when the handshake went down.

I look forward to seeing the design. The current XB1 is bulky and ugly. I expect the revisions will look much nicer.

Yeah, no thanks. I see no reason to buy what is essentially a PC with more restrictions, especially with the new wave of video cards coming out.

At $199 I will buy an Xbone Slim, at $249-$299, no way. I'm fine with not touching anything VR this generation. I tried Cardboard and have too many complaints that neither Rift or Vive resolve. I'll buy an NX before I'll buy a VR headset and we don't even know what the NX is yet.

So, an Oculus ready Xbox or the new NX console in 2017? Probably going to get a 1070 and see what Nintendo has hidden behind the curtain.

@duxa: A $600 iPhone is not a must-have item. A $15 dollar TracFone? Then we can talk.

Unless they do some rebate/trade in I have zero desire to get a "upgraded" PS4 or Xbox One

@deadstar: you might have something going on with your system, the only things my PS4 does faster then my Xbox One is boot up and install, everything UI wise is tied or a nudge faster on Xbox

@deadstar: Agreed, I have a bad taste in my mouth from my experience with my Xbox One before I sold it. Slow unorganized UI, bad framerates, and poor graphics quality, and a loud ass power brick even when it was off. Honestly the only thing decent about it was its first party line up. Which is more than I can say for PS4.

The PS4 isn't a pain to use, but it isn't blowing me away either. At this point I'm almost ready to give up non-nintendo consoles completely, and stick to PC+Nintendo. It's not like I have the time or money anyway.

Now I see why Jeff thinks this E3 is going to be a little thin. My guess is that Sony is going to push back announcing the 4.5 till next year because they want/need to focus on just PS VR for this year

If it plays XB1 games with no weirdness, sure, XB to XB360 was 4 years. These things aren't powerful enough to ride out an 8-year generation. Keep moving forward.

Sold mine just recently to pay a couple of bills and to buy some PS4 goodies. Having too much money was the reason I bought one in the first place and I think I only ended up enjoying Sunset Overdrive and Rise of the Tomb Raider on it. Admittedly it was fun to play Master Chief Collection a few times with a friend, but that only lasted for so long.

Maybe if I happen to spot Xbone 3.0 with a cheap price years later and with a bunch of exclusive games to go with it, I'll try my luck again.

PC gamers will never understand that some people just want to buy a box and play games on it will they? Yes PCs are becoming more like consoles and consoles becoming more like PCs but there's always going to be a perceived difference in 'fuss'.

Oh, and I bet the sample people who comment about the Xbox PC cross release to say that there's no reason to now buy an Xbox are the same ones who complain about windows 10 and having to use the windows store for Microsoft PC games.

Microsoft don't care much if you buy an Xbox, they still get their cut on PC when you have to buy their games through their store.